planetf1.com

Been plenty of "My ideal format would be X" threads, this is just really simply are you in favour of the proposed format as it has now been agreed.

Friday
60-minute First Practice in the morning with two sets of tyres for teams to choose freely
Normal Qualifying format in the afternoon with five soft tyre sets available only

Saturday
60-minute Second Free Practice in the morning with one set of tyres for teams to choose freely
100km Sprint Qualifying in the afternoon with two sets of tyres for teams to choose freely
3-2-1 Points and trophies but no podium

Sunday
Full distance Grand Prix with two remaining sets of tyres

I'm not even going to pretend to be objective about this, I bloody hate it.

I've added a Reserving Judgement option so I can bump the thread after the first weekend and you can re-cast your vote.

I don't really get the point of it. I didn't like the idea of reverse grids but at least they added something different, this doesn't really added anything.

The tyre rules seem odd too.

Two sets of tyres for a grand prix? Wasn’t the consensus that everyone managing tyres and one stopping was boring?

Now we don’t even have the variable of some cars qualifying on the medium (and the closer together the cars get the more of them would be doing it.) Or even the hard - seem to remember Max doing it last year.

The Spectacle Car now feels that it doesn’t deserve the name - two opportunities to have your race ruined by someone else above those that already exist. Car destroyed in the sprint race - if you were Bottas at Imola you weren’t going to be racing again the next day. I presume a spare car isn’t allowed again? And with only two sets of tyres, an early collision in the full grand prix resulting in a puncture is going to screw your race.

It’s a no from me. I do hope this lunacy doesn’t prove to be the thing that firmly makes up Kimi and/or Lewis’s mind to retire. Reverse grids seem more sensible than this.

Nope. Sprint races have no place in Formula 1, and I'm not changing my stance on that. To me, it's a matter of principle.

(but also this execution strikes me as kinda dumb, since it won't fix any of the problems we have now and may well introduce new ones)

-K- wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:10 pm

Two sets of tyres for a grand prix? Wasn’t the consensus that everyone managing tyres and one stopping was boring?

The other issue is with only two sets of tyres for race day what happens if you get a puncture early on in the race? You wouldn't have a tyre to finish the race on safely. Perhaps you switch to a used set but it doesn't feel safe to me!

First race is at the British GP Silverstone plus Italy and one other to be decided.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56893938

So they’re turning the only full race that Freeview viewers have access to this year into a circus? It gets better. I have Sky but think the British GP is totally the wrong time to be starting to trial this.

I hope I am right with the perhaps farfetched thought that they know it will go down like a lead balloon and are hoping that their full race weekend being hijacked will push some of them to buy Now TV passes etc to get the sort of racing they like. At least then they’ll have been sent back to the drawing board with this.

How many new sets of tyres do they currently receive on Sunday for the race? Aren't there already circumstances when drivers have to opt for a lightly used set?

I'll reserve judgement, but wasn't Bottas' weekend at Imola a write-off even with the current rules so whats the difference? I suspect if it happens Saturady in the sprint race at least it gives him a chance to salvage something. As others have pointed out, in terms of looking after the car and finishing the race it wouldn't be dramatically different to any weekend with a red flag, other than the extra 100km they have to drive. So there could perhaps be upto a 33% increase in DNFs, but probably in reality it will be less.

Whatever they have left out of their allocation of 10, I thought. Teams do carry used sets into Sunday but counting up the sets mentioned, it sounds like they have the same allocation for a weekend but instead the rules are rigid about when they can be used.

The only thing I like about it is the only one set in one of the practice sessions part. Less data for the teams potentially.

I understood that there were rules about how many they had to give back, which was different to the numbers allocated. I had understood that if they had 5 sets of softs for qualifying at Silverstone, they can also keep so many of those going forward, and if they only use 4-sets, then they can retain an extra unused set for the race. The details are a little light in the media reports but just trying to understand whether it is actually substantially different for the race. Hard to tell but don't they normally get 13-sets on any other weekend so perhaps it is a reduction.

The point around less data is probably the thing that gets lost in the changes with the focus obviously on the qualifying race. Teams will have much less data throughout than they have had in the past, with only the one 60-min practice ahead of qualifying, and then with parc ferme enforced before any other sessions including the second practice anyway.

I'm reserving judgement - but there's lots I don't get about the plans. What's the deal with having quali and sprint race on different days? Why couldn't they both be on Saturday? That way you'd have a Friday with two free practice sessions where changes can be made to cars. Having FP2 on Saturday - after quali - makes no sense to me.

Worse idea since elimination Qualifiying. No not the Qualifiying we have now. The let's eliminate someone every 90 seconds qualifiying format
If they wanted to make a new format up to trial. atleast look at all opportunities. Including the double race format I came up with. Atleast

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16224

Atleast with my format. We have the equivalent of 2 races. A shorter saturday race and a longer sunday race. 2 differing qualifiying sessions taking into account what Qualifiying sessions people like best. And there is a little room to fit in the support series. More track action for formula 1 over the weekend and a format that will cover the purists and people who are calling for changes.

Take a look and let me know what people think. Because I feel my idea seems better than this.

How's putting an extra 100km burden on the engines (plus more first lap incidents) are going to work with the engine lives and the budget cap?

Something's not adding up

Well, i guess i, and tonnes of others, will be missing qualifying this weekend with it being on in the middle of a workday.

Think ive already shared me views enough on this, but would be firmly against it. Though i will kick back with friends to half watch the sprint race on saturday i think, not expecting much.

Yuck. It's a commercial decision to disregard the history to chase a fad to get eyes on the sport.

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:31 pm

Been plenty of "My ideal format would be X" threads, this is just really simply are you in favour of the proposed format as it has now been agreed.

Friday
60-minute First Practice in the morning with two sets of tyres for teams to choose freely
Normal Qualifying format in the afternoon with five soft tyre sets available only

Saturday
60-minute Second Free Practice in the morning with one set of tyres for teams to choose freely
100km Sprint Qualifying in the afternoon with two sets of tyres for teams to choose freely
3-2-1 Points and trophies but no podium

Sunday
Full distance Grand Prix with two remaining sets of tyres

I'm not even going to pretend to be objective about this, I bloody hate it.

I've added a Reserving Judgement option so I can bump the thread after the first weekend and you can re-cast your vote.

3 - 2 - 1 points for "sprint race": even more points for the dominating teams; great idea.

I've been thinking about this since it was originally announced, and my opinion is that it will not add anything to the current weekend format.

The biggest issue for me is that the risk vs. reward of the Super Qualifying session is all wrong. Qualifying itself will usually give us the majority of the grid within a couple of places of where they should be. There will inevitably be a few cars out of position, both in terms of those who are massively out of position (i.e. a Red Bull failing to get out of Q1 because of a reliability issue) and those who don't get into the session they would've been expected to (i.e. a McLaren out in Q2 because they thought they were safe and the track ramped up more than they anticipated). But most of the grid will line up in the region of where they should.

That means that at the start of the Super Qualifying session, the majority of the grid is going to have very little to gain. As an example, is Max Verstappen going to throw it up the inside of Valtteri Bottas in a fight for 2nd place in the Super Qualifying race when it is actually a squabble over 2nd on the grid and a solitary point? Very, very unlikely when the risk is contact and - at worst - starting the actual race at the back of the pack. And that'll be the case throughout the field. Nobody who isn't already towards the back is going to take any kind of risk knowing they're merely fighting for an extra grid position, something which could very easily have been lost within a few hundred meters of the start of the actual race, when if it goes wrong it ruins their entire weekend.

The only cars we will see attacking are those who have started Sprint Qualifying out of position. Going back to my above examples, a Red Bull out in Q1 is going to go on the attack to try and undo as much of the damage as possible before the start of the race. They'll probably be quite aggressive. But a McLaren out in Q2? Even they are going to temper that aggression a little, knowing it could still get worse prior to the start of the race, and knowing they now have an extra 100km with which to get back to where they should've been. And all of that actually negatively impacts the race because it means that instead of seeing that on Sunday, it gets diverted into a lesser event.

I'm willing to be proven wrong but it feels like this will ultimately be something of a procession after the first lap, which will add nothing of any value to the race weekend as a whole.

One question, actually: have they said whether grid penalties will be applied prior to the start of Super Qualifying or the start of the race itself? Seems like whenever they apply them, it gives the drivers the chance to basically mitigate them by gaining the places in the Sprint Qualifying session...

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:32 am

One question, actually: have they said whether grid penalties will be applied prior to the start of Super Qualifying or the start of the race itself? Seems like whenever they apply them, it gives the drivers the chance to basically mitigate them by gaining the places in the Sprint Qualifying session...

No idea.

Some more info:

Pirelli will supply only 12 sets of dry tyres per driver (2x hard, 4x medium, 6x soft).
Free tyre choice for both races. (2x FP1, 5x quali, 1x FP2, 2x sprint quali, 2x race)
Parc fermé rules allow change of brakes, spark plugs & air intake + oil filters.

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 am

In addendum to my previous post, while I don't think it's conceptually damaging (as qualifying remains, and it's effectively just adding 100km to the race distance) - I would prefer to remain with the current format. However, as far as 'shake ups' go, this is fairly insignificant. There is no performance penalties such as reverse grids or ballast, or backmarker or popularity gains like fan boost. So in that sense it's not gimmicky. Given they are determined to try something, I'll take this option over pretty much any of the radical ideas that have been suggested.

Because this at a surface level 'shakes up the format' it will grab the headlines and give the appearance of making a big change. In reality, it's not really changing anything other than increasing the race distance.

I disgaree with that.

Is it a race or is it qualifying? The message is mixed when they make a point of not calling it a race, but then award points and trophies. The drivers will be racing the others, presume there's start and a chequered flag? Then trophies but no podium. I'm not against change but this is just a half-baked mess.

I don't know why they at least didn't just trial it the way W Series did with the reversed grid - a one off event that was not part of the championship.

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 am

In addendum to my previous post, while I don't think it's conceptually damaging (as qualifying remains, and it's effectively just adding 100km to the race distance) - I would prefer to remain with the current format. However, as far as 'shake ups' go, this is fairly insignificant. There is no performance penalties such as reverse grids or ballast, or backmarker or popularity gains like fan boost. So in that sense it's not gimmicky. Given they are determined to try something, I'll take this option over pretty much any of the radical ideas that have been suggested.

Because this at a surface level 'shakes up the format' it will grab the headlines and give the appearance of making a big change. In reality, it's not really changing anything other than increasing the race distance.

This is true, compared to other solutions it is less gimmicky. While I agree that I would prefer this to sprinklers or banana skins on the track, having 2 starts each weekend will inevitably lead to more first corner incidents. As we know from last week, this costs more money, under the budget cap rules. Mercedes alluded to that:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/botta ... h/6343862/

Without even factoring the extra punishment on the engines. It just feels half-baked

Have the teams been offered more money (i.e. bigger budget)?

I can see Bottas colliding with Russell twice in one weekend and wiping out both teams contingency funds

Battle Far wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:31 am

Have the teams been offered more money (i.e. bigger budget)?

I can see Bottas colliding with Russell twice in one weekend and wiping out both teams contingency funds

This was apparently part of the delay in it being announced. Teams weren’t happy in not having the budget caps being extended, which has now been agreed.

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:01 am

Some more info:

Pirelli will supply only 12 sets of dry tyres per driver (2x hard, 4x medium, 6x soft).
Free tyre choice for both races. (2x FP1, 5x quali, 1x FP2, 2x sprint quali, 2x race)
Parc fermé rules allow change of brakes, spark plugs & air intake + oil filters.

I don’t get the tyre rules. Only two sets for the actual race, what happens if tyre wear is high and a two stopper is needed?

If teams can carry tyres forward then I suspect Merc/RB will try and only use four sets of tyres in quali. I guess it’s possible the second set in the sprint race can be carried forward to the race too.

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:20 am

How's putting an extra 100km burden on the engines (plus more first lap incidents) are going to work with the engine lives and the budget cap?

Something's not adding up

Good point, suddenly engine longevity and reliability play an increasing part, how much extra wear and tear is a race over qualifying I wonder, if you turn it up to get pole. Qualifying seems just a short burst.

The fact that the teams agreed so quickly has to mean there's financial incentive, I can't believe there would be such support otherwise. Toto has explained why he's OK with this but not reversed grids - because in principle at least, this still rewards performance whereas a reversed grid penalises it.

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:08 am

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 am

In addendum to my previous post, while I don't think it's conceptually damaging (as qualifying remains, and it's effectively just adding 100km to the race distance) - I would prefer to remain with the current format. However, as far as 'shake ups' go, this is fairly insignificant. There is no performance penalties such as reverse grids or ballast, or backmarker or popularity gains like fan boost. So in that sense it's not gimmicky. Given they are determined to try something, I'll take this option over pretty much any of the radical ideas that have been suggested.

Because this at a surface level 'shakes up the format' it will grab the headlines and give the appearance of making a big change. In reality, it's not really changing anything other than increasing the race distance.

I disgaree with that.

Is it a race or is it qualifying? The message is mixed when they make a point of not calling it a race, but then award points and trophies. The drivers will be racing the others, presume there's start and a chequered flag? Then trophies but no podium. I'm not against change but this is just a half-baked mess.

I don't know why they at least didn't just trial it the way W Series did with the reversed grid - a one off event that was not part of the championship.

Once you strip back all the marketing buzzwords and look at the mechanics - which is what the F1 teams will do - then what we still have is Qualifying (Friday), the race then starts (on Saturday)
and ends on Sunday with a stop after 100km and a new standing start the same way. In practical terms, it is identical to a red flag during a race, the only difference being that they are doing 100km extra and they have a day's rest inbetween.

What people want to call it, or view the 100km are, is largely irrelevant. In practical terms what we have is a race that's 33% longer and qualifying on an annoying day.

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:01 am

Some more info:

Pirelli will supply only 12 sets of dry tyres per driver (2x hard, 4x medium, 6x soft).
Free tyre choice for both races. (2x FP1, 5x quali, 1x FP2, 2x sprint quali, 2x race)
Parc fermé rules allow change of brakes, spark plugs & air intake + oil filters.

So basically I'm guessing everyone does the same:-

P1 - 1xM, 1xS
Q - 5xS
P2 - 1xH, 1xM
S - 1xM, 1xS
R - 1xH, 1xM

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:50 pm

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:08 am

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 am

In addendum to my previous post, while I don't think it's conceptually damaging (as qualifying remains, and it's effectively just adding 100km to the race distance) - I would prefer to remain with the current format. However, as far as 'shake ups' go, this is fairly insignificant. There is no performance penalties such as reverse grids or ballast, or backmarker or popularity gains like fan boost. So in that sense it's not gimmicky. Given they are determined to try something, I'll take this option over pretty much any of the radical ideas that have been suggested.

Because this at a surface level 'shakes up the format' it will grab the headlines and give the appearance of making a big change. In reality, it's not really changing anything other than increasing the race distance.

I disgaree with that.

Is it a race or is it qualifying? The message is mixed when they make a point of not calling it a race, but then award points and trophies. The drivers will be racing the others, presume there's start and a chequered flag? Then trophies but no podium. I'm not against change but this is just a half-baked mess.

I don't know why they at least didn't just trial it the way W Series did with the reversed grid - a one off event that was not part of the championship.

Once you strip back all the marketing buzzwords and look at the mechanics - which is what the F1 teams will do - then what we still have is Qualifying (Friday), the race then starts (on Saturday)
and ends on Sunday with a stop after 100km and a new standing start the same way. In practical terms, it is identical to a red flag during a race, the only difference being that they are doing 100km extra and they have a day's rest inbetween.

What people want to call it, or view the 100km are, is largely irrelevant. In practical terms what we have is a race that's 33% longer and qualifying on an annoying day.

well that's one way to look at it, but I certainly don't see it that way for the reason that with a red flag, you don't declare a winner, award some points, give some trophies and then get back in the cars...

JN23 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:42 am

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:01 am

Some more info:

Pirelli will supply only 12 sets of dry tyres per driver (2x hard, 4x medium, 6x soft).
Free tyre choice for both races. (2x FP1, 5x quali, 1x FP2, 2x sprint quali, 2x race)
Parc fermé rules allow change of brakes, spark plugs & air intake + oil filters.

I don’t get the tyre rules. Only two sets for the actual race, what happens if tyre wear is high and a two stopper is needed?

If teams can carry tyres forward then I suspect Merc/RB will try and only use four sets of tyres in quali. I guess it’s possible the second set in the sprint race can be carried forward to the race too.

I believe it's only stipulating the amount of new tyres that can be used for the race as in 2 different compounds, however you still would be able to use old tyres if a 2 stopper is needed, remember that races presently are started on used tyres.

However it doesn't seem to quantify that so I believe we have to factor in common sense that on race day that cars will not be restricted to just 2 sets of tyres.

I'm glad to see the negative response to this however we have to perceive that we are not the target audience, such narrative as it being the equivalent to the popular cricket twenty20 matches shows the target audience being new casual viewers who haven't the patience to watch a 90 minute race.

Of course it's all about trying to make as much money as possible and not necessarily making the sport better, as with a lot of businesses is all about chasing new money while old money is seen as being baked in, so new money gets all the better deals.

For my part I don't care for it and I won't watch it, I will watch on Friday, FP2 I'm not so sure, watching practice sessions is often about looking for clues about who's going to be quickest in qualifying but we will already know that. So it might be a case of going straight from qualifying to the race on Sunday and any changes just viewed as grid penalties.

Ah... I see the brains behind the football Super League had a sideline activity...
Problem is :
1/ F1 is already and since a long time an impenetrable Super League.
2/ The F1 Super League members know that F1 "fans" are no more, and since a long time, what make them rich.

I don't see the point in the sprint race other than to perhaps get new viewers. However, I will give it a go and report back!

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:06 pm

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:50 pm

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:08 am

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 am

In addendum to my previous post, while I don't think it's conceptually damaging (as qualifying remains, and it's effectively just adding 100km to the race distance) - I would prefer to remain with the current format. However, as far as 'shake ups' go, this is fairly insignificant. There is no performance penalties such as reverse grids or ballast, or backmarker or popularity gains like fan boost. So in that sense it's not gimmicky. Given they are determined to try something, I'll take this option over pretty much any of the radical ideas that have been suggested.

Because this at a surface level 'shakes up the format' it will grab the headlines and give the appearance of making a big change. In reality, it's not really changing anything other than increasing the race distance.

I disgaree with that.

Is it a race or is it qualifying? The message is mixed when they make a point of not calling it a race, but then award points and trophies. The drivers will be racing the others, presume there's start and a chequered flag? Then trophies but no podium. I'm not against change but this is just a half-baked mess.

I don't know why they at least didn't just trial it the way W Series did with the reversed grid - a one off event that was not part of the championship.

Once you strip back all the marketing buzzwords and look at the mechanics - which is what the F1 teams will do - then what we still have is Qualifying (Friday), the race then starts (on Saturday)
and ends on Sunday with a stop after 100km and a new standing start the same way. In practical terms, it is identical to a red flag during a race, the only difference being that they are doing 100km extra and they have a day's rest inbetween.

What people want to call it, or view the 100km are, is largely irrelevant. In practical terms what we have is a race that's 33% longer and qualifying on an annoying day.

well that's one way to look at it, but I certainly don't see it that way for the reason that with a red flag, you don't declare a winner, award some points, give some trophies and then get back in the cars...

In my original post I did mention the points, and they are trivial (3 points for first, 2 for second 1 for third) and I'm not a fan of them. But given that 102 points are handed out on Sunday, 6 points on Saturday are neither here nor there. It is a *difference* but so was a point added for fastest lap, and F1 has discussed giving a point for pole before too.

The way I see it, is that this doesn't artificially change the pecking order. The idea of reverse grids, or adding ballast is punishing success and I'm fundamentally opposed to this. The main reason I'm opposed to the points here is that presumably it's just going to be 6 more points shared to HAM VER BOT most of the time.

Quali being on a friday basically guarantees I wont be able to watch it live which is disappointing.

Why not have both practices on Friday and Quali + Sprint Quali on the saturday? Would sure keep eyes on the TV for longer on the saturday because if you are watching one you are surely watching the other.

At a time when those who run football clubs showed themselves to be out of touch, self-obsessed halfwits it seems F1 was not to be outdone. I loathe this idea. Why take an aspect of F1 that works well and replace it with one that doesn't? Apparently it's what the fans want, but sadly as usual no one bothered to ask us.

I will watch the sprint race. However I will not be watching Friday qualifying as, like many people, I will be at work.