Silly Season 2022

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Exediron
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Exediron »

Tufty wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:38 pm
Mercedes going from "we are actively promoting diversity" to "ooh look, pots of Saudi money".
No, no -- you're not seeing this from the proper corporate point of view. You can very easily do both!

Painting the car black, engaging in diversity campaigns, etc. is just 'public relations', a line-item expense to buy public goodwill. At the end of the day, it will translate to dollars spent on Mercedes or it's a waste.

Saudi investment is just another source of money. Purchases by socially aware customers or dirty money from an evil government, it all looks the same on the good 'ol spreadsheet -- and the final, ultimate secret of corporate management is to make it all look the same in your mind as well.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Jezza13 »

Exediron wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:56 pm
Tufty wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:38 pm
Mercedes going from "we are actively promoting diversity" to "ooh look, pots of Saudi money".
No, no -- you're not seeing this from the proper corporate point of view. You can very easily do both!

Painting the car black, engaging in diversity campaigns, etc. is just 'public relations', a line-item expense to buy public goodwill. At the end of the day, it will translate to dollars spent on Mercedes or it's a waste.

Saudi investment is just another source of money. Purchases by socially aware customers or dirty money from an evil government, it all looks the same on the good 'ol spreadsheet -- and the final, ultimate secret of corporate management is to make it all look the same in your mind as well.
Typical Cooperate line to the cynics out there.

"With F1 hitting the streets of Jedda, and now Mercedes entering a commercial agreement with Saudi Amarco, the F1 community will be perfectly positioned to use it's extraordinary global influence to promote our core goals to end racism & to push for the equality & inclusivity we all want to see & the Saudi government have already indicated their willingness to work with us on this"

And of course what they say is true, I mean, look at how China's human rights record had improved in the 20 odd years F1 has been going there......oh wait.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Tufty »

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/70984 ... o-in-2022/

This muddies the waters a little bit. Petronas have years left, but contracts aren't exactly carved in stone in F1. Maybe the 2025 factor is relevant?
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by UnlikeUday »

Supposedly next Tuesday, Alfa Romeo will confirm Zhou as the 2nd driver. Seems they've reached a settlement where Zhou wanted a longer contract & not just for 1 year.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:12 pm
Supposedly next Tuesday, Alfa Romeo will confirm Zhou as the 2nd driver. Seems they've reached a settlement where Zhou wanted a longer contract & not just for 1 year.
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by typaH4okc »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
He might be a pay driver, but I wouldn't put Zhou in that company.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by mikeyg123 »

typaH4okc wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:28 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
He might be a pay driver, but I wouldn't put Zhou in that company.

Latifi finished 2nd in his 3rd year of F2. Zhao may fall short of that.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:12 pm
Supposedly next Tuesday, Alfa Romeo will confirm Zhou as the 2nd driver. Seems they've reached a settlement where Zhou wanted a longer contract & not just for 1 year.
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
1/5 on the grid now....

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

typaH4okc wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:28 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
He might be a pay driver, but I wouldn't put Zhou in that company.
Are his results that much better, It's true that he's not the son of a Billionaire but he's only getting the gig because of a shed load of Chinese money.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:49 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:12 pm
Supposedly next Tuesday, Alfa Romeo will confirm Zhou as the 2nd driver. Seems they've reached a settlement where Zhou wanted a longer contract & not just for 1 year.
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
1/5 on the grid now....
...and they have the kind of money to stay on the grid regardless of results.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Tufty »

I need to repair this record I think, but... We need more teams.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by j man »

typaH4okc wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:28 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm
Unfortunately it's becoming more the norm for pay drivers to find seats in a situation were so few seats are available in the first place, this is how I would class Zhou, Mazepin, Latifi and Stroll.
He might be a pay driver, but I wouldn't put Zhou in that company.
I would. Let's not forget that Mazepin finished ahead of him in last year's F2 standings.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by typaH4okc »

j man wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:10 pm

I would. Let's not forget that Mazepin finished ahead of him in last year's F2 standings.
hmm, fair point, might be the hype around him that swayed me.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

Piastri is the only guy on the F2 grid this year that really deserves to be in F1 next year. Pourchaire may bt the end of 2022, but Zhou, Shwartzman, Vips, Lawson, Ticktum, etc., as much as they've all had their moments, none of them have have really stood out.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

Just seen a post on Twitter - picture of a Shanghai Alfa dealer window with a full size official Alfa branded window sticker saying "Congratulations to Guanyu Zhou on becoming the first Chinese F1 driver"...


oops.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Desert Storm »

News circulating that Audi have bought the entire Mclaren Group, which will provide Audi with an entry into F1.

More Info at the link below:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by JN23 »

Desert Storm wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:59 am
News circulating that Audi have bought the entire Mclaren Group, which will provide Audi with an entry into F1.

More Info at the link below:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry
Is that an entry in the form of McLaren or a separate entry?

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by UnlikeUday »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:28 am
Desert Storm wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:59 am
News circulating that Audi have bought the entire Mclaren Group, which will provide Audi with an entry into F1.

More Info at the link below:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry
Is that an entry in the form of McLaren or a separate entry?
Here it's said Audi plans to enter under its own name as a new team:
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Desert Storm »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:28 am
Desert Storm wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:59 am
News circulating that Audi have bought the entire Mclaren Group, which will provide Audi with an entry into F1.

More Info at the link below:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry
Is that an entry in the form of McLaren or a separate entry?
The article suggests that Audi/Mclaren will be one entry, as Audi has bought the whole Mclaren group (race team, road car division, applied sciences division etc).

Story seems to be evolving, lets see what ends up as what!

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by JN23 »

Thanks :thumbup:

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Desert Storm »

Desert Storm wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:34 am
JN23 wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:28 am
Desert Storm wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:59 am
News circulating that Audi have bought the entire Mclaren Group, which will provide Audi with an entry into F1.

More Info at the link below:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry
Is that an entry in the form of McLaren or a separate entry?
The article suggests that Audi/Mclaren will be one entry, as Audi has bought the whole Mclaren group (race team, road car division, applied sciences division etc).

Story seems to be evolving, lets see what ends up as what!
McLaren have put out a statement that the story is false.

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/14 ... 6289915908

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by SlipstreamF1 »

I won't believe anything after the false flag Andretti-Alfa Romeo event. I wonder if that was AR playing a game of putting public pressure on Andretti to write the check. McLaren won't be pressured into selling.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

Piastri reserve for Alpine
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by UnlikeUday »

Official - Giovinazzi leaves Alfa Romeo this year. It coincides well with Zhou's announcement today.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by UnlikeUday »

Zhou is Bottas' team mate - it's official!
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

Nothing against Zhou but it's not the most exciting news is it. There's certainly better prospects in the lower series but the commercials can't be ignored.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by tootsie323 »

Bit harsh on Gio. Not that he set the world alight but I'm not convinced by his replacement (though I hope to be proven wrong).
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by j man »

tootsie323 wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:10 am
Bit harsh on Gio. Not that he set the world alight but I'm not convinced by his replacement (though I hope to be proven wrong).
Giovinazzi definitely has some speed and has done a decent job in qualifying but always seems to go backwards in races, as evidenced by his solitary point this season. Overall I don't think he's done enough to keep the seat. It reminds me of when Paul di Resta was dropped by Force India; he didn't do much wrong but never really did anything remarkable either, and at the top level of motorsport that's always going to leave you vulnerable to the next hot prospects coming out of the junior series, and to pay drivers who will do a similar job whilst bringing in more revenue.

From a racing perspective Piastri is obviously more deserving but if I was running Alfa I would have made the same decision, particularly with a decent driver already confirmed in the other seat. The revenue and commercial opportunity that Zhou brings is too big to ignore, and even since his debut in F2 he has always been one of the better drivers in the series so I think he'll do a solid job. Tsunoda's struggles this year do make me wonder if Zhou's been competing in a weak F2 field for these past few years though.

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Hamilton's comment on Gio's instagram post was something like "Good luck in your future endeavours" which I think is number 7 in the big book of "What to write in the leaving card of a colleague you never knew worked at the company"

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by JN23 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:06 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Hamilton's comment on Gio's instagram post was something like "Good luck in your future endeavours" which I think is number 7 in the big book of "What to write in the leaving card of a colleague you never knew worked at the company"
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:17 am
Zhou is Bottas' team mate - it's official!
Money talks.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
In qualifying he showed quite a bit, what has Russell really shown, nothing in his first 2 seasons at Williams, the one qualifying at Spa were Williams made a good call in the wet conditions followed by the gifted podium and Russell is touted as being one of the best drivers, it's not easy.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:19 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
In qualifying he showed quite a bit, what has Russell really shown, nothing in his first 2 seasons at Williams, the one qualifying at Spa were Williams made a good call in the wet conditions followed by the gifted podium and Russell is touted as being one of the best drivers, it's not easy.
I do think Russel has been fortunate with his teammates.

I just found Gio a bit meh,,, 60 odd races, but if you were tasked with putting a highlight reel together, what would have?
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:24 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:19 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Wasn't expecting Giovanazzi to go Formula E though. Figured he'd go endurance of some sort.
While it's crappy to lose your seat to a pay driver, you can't say Gio didn't get a chance. 3 Years in and he made virtually no impression.
Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
In qualifying he showed quite a bit, what has Russell really shown, nothing in his first 2 seasons at Williams, the one qualifying at Spa were Williams made a good call in the wet conditions followed by the gifted podium and Russell is touted as being one of the best drivers, it's not easy.
I do think Russel has been fortunate with his teammates.

I just found Gio a bit meh,,, 60 odd races, but if you were tasked with putting a highlight reel together, what would have?
No he's certainly not anything special, I think that's what you would need to be in the cars he's had to stand out.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:28 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:24 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:19 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm

Well to be fair he had rubbish cars.
Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
In qualifying he showed quite a bit, what has Russell really shown, nothing in his first 2 seasons at Williams, the one qualifying at Spa were Williams made a good call in the wet conditions followed by the gifted podium and Russell is touted as being one of the best drivers, it's not easy.
I do think Russel has been fortunate with his teammates.

I just found Gio a bit meh,,, 60 odd races, but if you were tasked with putting a highlight reel together, what would have?
No he's certainly not anything special, I think that's what you would need to be in the cars he's had to stand out.
The problem with GIO is that his supposed improvement over time has been very slight, and has tracked suspiciously well with Kimi aging into retirement.

Based on what we know from teammate comparisons and can extrapolate from age, Kimi is among the slowest drivers on the grid now over a single lap. Giovinazzi should be dominating him, not simply beginning to show a distinct advantage for the first time in their partnership.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:30 am
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:28 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:24 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:19 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm


Not the best car agreed but over 3 seasons and with a great benchmark teammate he had the chance to show *something* .
In qualifying he showed quite a bit, what has Russell really shown, nothing in his first 2 seasons at Williams, the one qualifying at Spa were Williams made a good call in the wet conditions followed by the gifted podium and Russell is touted as being one of the best drivers, it's not easy.
I do think Russel has been fortunate with his teammates.

I just found Gio a bit meh,,, 60 odd races, but if you were tasked with putting a highlight reel together, what would have?
No he's certainly not anything special, I think that's what you would need to be in the cars he's had to stand out.
The problem with GIO is that his supposed improvement over time has been very slight, and has tracked suspiciously well with Kimi aging into retirement.

Based on what we know from teammate comparisons and can extrapolate from age, Kimi is among the slowest drivers on the grid now over a single lap. Giovinazzi should be dominating him, not simply beginning to show a distinct advantage for the first time in their partnership.
This year the gap is 3 tenths and a head to head of 11-3, it also could be a step up like we have perhaps seen with Norris this year.
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Re: Silly Season 2022

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