Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

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pokerman
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 7:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
This is what happens with some because you have to prove one driver is quicker than another driver.
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Invade
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Invade »

pokerman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:17 pm
SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:39 pm
I didn't think it was close at all. Merc to me clearly had the faster car. Even Wolff admitted it on the radio (whoops!). It also helps to have the faster drivers as well. :lol: The car is just so smooth whereas RBR is a twitchy beast. They have a stronger engine this year, so they can run more DF for the corners and still have enough straight away speed in an open field, but not enough to defend against overtaking.
It was Max that had more downforce with a bigger rear wing, the car was set up for qualifying, Hamilton even has less rear wing than Bottas that being Hamilton set his car up for the race realising it's a track you can pass on, and then it becomes all so unfair because a car is slow on the straight.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

Exediron wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 7:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
Think so far it is fairly clear the Mercedes is a faster car than the RBR.

I am firmly of the belief that given equal cars Max will have a small but decisive advantage over Hamilton - now all he needs is that equal car. Signs were good, but the Merc is definitely quicker so far.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

A.J. wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:42 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 7:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm

This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
Think so far it is fairly clear the Mercedes is a faster car than the RBR.

I am firmly of the belief that given equal cars Max will have a small but decisive advantage over Hamilton - now all he needs is that equal car. Signs were good, but the Merc is definitely quicker so far.
When the cars were equal the small advantage was going to Lewis, obviously the Merc is in front now.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

I give qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 5 - 3 Red Bull
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Option or Prime »

A.J. wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:42 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 7:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm

This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
Think so far it is fairly clear the Mercedes is a faster car than the RBR.

I am firmly of the belief that given equal cars Max will have a small but decisive advantage over Hamilton - now all he needs is that equal car. Signs were good, but the Merc is definitely quicker so far.
They have equal cars now, its surely just down to drivers. If Mercedes were significantly faster Bottas would have been second.
Its pretty clear that Mercedes take longer to warm up their tyres but Hamilton simply drove a better overall race. I always thought Red Bull had better strategy but they had control of the race yet got out thought and out driven.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1Tyrant »

A.J. wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:42 pm
I am firmly of the belief that given equal cars Max will have a small but decisive advantage over Hamilton - now all he needs is that equal car. Signs were good, but the Merc is definitely quicker so far.
The confirmation bias is strong with this one. If anything, Hamilton's experience give him a razor thin edge in the match up. There is simply no evidence for this assertion other than faith. I don't mind people making arguments on faith but I think the evidence supports Hamilton and Verstappen being very closely matched.

There is simply no evidence for a decisive advantage one way or the other.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Asphalt_World »

A.J. wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:42 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 7:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm

This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
Think so far it is fairly clear the Mercedes is a faster car than the RBR.

I am firmly of the belief that given equal cars Max will have a small but decisive advantage over Hamilton - now all he needs is that equal car. Signs were good, but the Merc is definitely quicker so far.
In the odd race, maybe, but I've seen no evidence to back up your point that Max could be, overall, a slightly faster driver.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by JN23 »

pokerman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:46 pm
I give qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 5 - 3 Red Bull
I have a five point scale: RB comfortable, RB slight, even, Merc slight, Merc comfortable.

I think I’d go Merc slight advantage in qualifying and comfortable today, but I think a better description of today would be between slight and comfortable.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by KingVoid »

Honestly, Red Bull haven’t had the fastest car since Bahrain, and even that was marginal.

Mercedes are pulling clear as they begin to understand their package more.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

Mercedes has a good advantage in the races. Even in Bahrain, though RBR missed out because of poor strategy. In qualifying the gap is close between all the teams. RBR can compete with Mercedes there. RBR are good in developing car during the season so I think it will go down the wire for WDC. It is going to come to tyre wear and reliability. They will hoping Perez can play a role as well.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1Tyrant »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:05 pm
Honestly, Red Bull haven’t had the fastest car since Bahrain, and even that was marginal.

Mercedes are pulling clear as they begin to understand their package more.
Mercedes have a distinct race pace advantage. However, it's even stevens in qualifying. Had Max stuck it on pole in Portimao he could have won. He could have easily made it four poles in a row.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Invade »

Mercedes have had a distinct race pace advantage in one race, Spain. And it was a hefty advantage. RBR would have had to play a blinder on strategy and had Max at his defensive best to stop Mercedes and Lewis today.

Big win on the weekend for Mercedes. Very clearly the best package.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

Mercedes/Hamilton package was deffiantly faster but we cant forget how good Hamiltons tyre management is and hks race pace is so good. IMO I think he beats Verstappen in both cases.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Invade »

Yeh well no doubt Ham's race pace has been bloody fantastic recently. Made Bottas look third-rate today.

The way this race went is indicative of what I thought would happen a lot this season after a couple of races: Max making early moves, Hamilton making later race moves.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by KingVoid »

Monaco already feels like a must win for Red Bull tbh

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Rockie »

After what I have seen today Mercedes is the better car season they just need to understand the car well.

Redbull is having the early Ferrari '17 moment, they are going to pull clear once they understand the car.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SR1 »

Recap, for me

Bahrain- RB quickest in qualifying and overall on Sunday
Imola-RB quickest in qualifying, Merc quickest overall on Sunday
Portugal -unclear, both on Saturday and Sunday
Spain- nowt in it/equal on Saturday, Merc quickest on Sunday

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by KingVoid »

Portugal was pretty clearly Mercedes on both days

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:26 pm
Portugal was pretty clearly Mercedes on both days
I'd definitely agree on qualifying at minimum. Don't know how people think they were evenly matched when Hamilton admitted to having a poor lap and still outqualifying Verstappen.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Johnson »

I'm looking forward to a race that is Hamilton - Verstappen for the first stint and to see if Hamilton is able to build a gap. We have not seen that this season yet. I think the Mercedes has the speed to build a 3-4 second lead, like today. Max does not seem able to build any kind of gap (except in the rain at San Marino)

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SR1 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:39 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:26 pm
Portugal was pretty clearly Mercedes on both days
I'd definitely agree on qualifying at minimum. Don't know how people think they were evenly matched when Hamilton admitted to having a poor lap and still outqualifying Verstappen.
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs (deleted due to error). Hamilton also left time on the table, so, for me, it's not clear cut.
On Sunday, Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums (Merc better on the hards). Overall, not sure who had the better car in Portugal.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

SR1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:10 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:39 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:26 pm
Portugal was pretty clearly Mercedes on both days
I'd definitely agree on qualifying at minimum. Don't know how people think they were evenly matched when Hamilton admitted to having a poor lap and still outqualifying Verstappen.
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs (deleted due to error). Hamilton also left time on the table, so, for me, it's not clear cut.
On Sunday, Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums (Merc better on the hards). Overall, not sure who had the better car in Portugal.
True, although Hamilton posted a lap in the 17's in Q2, while Verstappen's deleted time was only marginally ahead of Bottas' Q3 time IIRC.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by JN23 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:49 pm
SR1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:10 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:39 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:26 pm
Portugal was pretty clearly Mercedes on both days
I'd definitely agree on qualifying at minimum. Don't know how people think they were evenly matched when Hamilton admitted to having a poor lap and still outqualifying Verstappen.
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs (deleted due to error). Hamilton also left time on the table, so, for me, it's not clear cut.
On Sunday, Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums (Merc better on the hards). Overall, not sure who had the better car in Portugal.
True, although Hamilton posted a lap in the 17's in Q2, while Verstappen's deleted time was only marginally ahead of Bottas' Q3 time IIRC.
Everyone was slower from Q2 to Q3 I think, so not sure Hamilton's lap in Q2 is good to use in comparison to Q3 times.

(I think Mercedes had a slight advantage in both qualifying and race in Portugal)

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by BMWSauber84 »

We need a response from Red Bull in Monaco. They have traditionally gone well there, but Merc look pretty handy in slow speed corners. For all the promise and intrigue this season had (and continues to have IMO) this is statistically Hamiltons best ever start to a Formula One season in terms of points on the board. It is of course a long long season, and we know Red Bull are no slouches in the development race.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by j man »

Not much in it, but Mercedes do seem to have had the slight upper hand overall. I'm struggling to really gauge the Red Bull's overall pace because Perez's performances seem unrepresentative. Three different drivers have filled that second Red Bull seat alongside Verstappen since Ricciardo left and they've all struggled enormously. I'm starting to conclude that it is the team environment that is the cause here rather than the drivers themselves, particularly as Gasly has since shown some good form and Perez is well proven to be a safe pair of hands.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Badgeronimous »

Cannot help but feel that there is an inevitability that the Mercedes is slowly going to prove the car to be in.
Last edited by Badgeronimous on Sun May 09, 2021 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Banana Man »

Badgeronimous wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:02 pm
Cannot help but feel that the Mercedes is slowly going to prove the car to be in.
I believe they basically have been other than Bahrain, and even that was a close run thing. On a dry Imola, Lewis was hauling Max in before his off and today it was only Max’s start that made the race remotely interesting.

Red Bull COULD have pitted Max just before Merc did but in reality I think Lewis would have stretched out a big enough gap and Max wouldn’t have the straight line speed to pass Bottas.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SlipstreamF1 »

pokerman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:17 pm
SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:39 pm
I didn't think it was close at all. Merc to me clearly had the faster car. Even Wolff admitted it on the radio (whoops!). It also helps to have the faster drivers as well. :lol: The car is just so smooth whereas RBR is a twitchy beast. They have a stronger engine this year, so they can run more DF for the corners and still have enough straight away speed in an open field, but not enough to defend against overtaking.
It was Max that had more downforce with a bigger rear wing, the car was set up for qualifying, Hamilton even has less rear wing than Bottas that being Hamilton set his car up for the race realising it's a track you can pass on, and then it becomes all so unfair because a car is slow on the straight.
That's what I meant, RB had more DF

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

j man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:13 pm
Not much in it, but Mercedes do seem to have had the slight upper hand overall. I'm struggling to really gauge the Red Bull's overall pace because Perez's performances seem unrepresentative. Three different drivers have filled that second Red Bull seat alongside Verstappen since Ricciardo left and they've all struggled enormously. I'm starting to conclude that it is the team environment that is the cause here rather than the drivers themselves, particularly as Gasly has since shown some good form and Perez is well proven to be a safe pair of hands.
I think Perez is a different kettle of fish to Albon and Gasly. Albon and Gasly were generally far too slow. Perez has had a different issue take him out of the top 4 each race. In Bahrain he tried to gamble on mediums in qualifying and didn't get the lap in. In Imola he was all set to finish 2nd, despite being poor in the wet, and ended up spinning near the end. In Portugal he lost out to Norris after the SC and couldn't get back passed and in Spain he messed up his first Q3 lap and then the track regressed.

These are all his fault of course but it isn't that he lacks genuine pace. Apart from Imola his pace in the clear air has been decent compared to Verstappen. If he can actually end the first lap in the top 4 he will be up there in the podium fight at least.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1Tyrant »

I think my position after four races is that Mercedes has a razor thin edge in qualifying and a small margin in the race.

The Hamilton-Mercedes package is incredibly strong and the cars relative advantages over Red Bull suit Sir Lewis. Verstappen is in the ballpark and needs to maximise his points at tracks with the softest compound.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by iano »

There is so much debate between those supporting Max and Lewis about who has the fastest car, yet it seems logical that Perez vs Bottas should figure strongly in determining which car is faster.

So far, Bottas is outscoring Perez, and I do not thing Bottas is believe to be a substantially better driver than Perez. Perez does have the 'new to the car issue', but if the imbalance continues, the evidence for the Merc being faster accumulates.

At this time, the points ratio between Hamilton and Verstappen is closer than the ration between Bottas and Perez.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Dazza1976 »

Merc slight edge in races, qualifying its hard to judge because Bottas is excellent over 1 lap (always has been) whilst Perez isn’t and is still new to the car.

Even so Hamilton, barring his mistake in Imola (he got very lucky with bottas Russel tangle) is driving superbly and clearly relishing the challenge.

There is no other driver I’d want in my car than Hamilton, can drive around any issues and still incredible raw pace at 36.

Verstappen will need a car advantage to beat him over the course of a season mostly due to experience. The reverse isn’t true, I think if red bull out develop merc and end up with that slight car advantage Hamilton can make the difference.

My two favourite drivers so hope they do battle season long.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by UnlikeUday »

It's pivotal for Checo to get into the mix soon before the gap increases in WDC & WCC. I know it's a long season but it's better to stay in touch with Mercedes. In the top 2 teams (Merc & RB), he's the one with the least experience when it comes to driving that top end car. He just needs to find confidence & rhythm. If not WDC, want RB to fight strong & hard for WCC. Something's better than nothing.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

Four races so far, and the Merc had the faster car in 3 of them, with Bahrain being too close to call. The RBR might be quick on qualy (still think the Merc has the edge, not just looking at the relative pace of Perez/Bottas), in the race the Mercs are definitely quicker (and that's where points are handed out.

After Barcelona, it is 3.5 - 0.5 in favour of the Mercs - and with the reliability issues of the Hondas, it is a matter of time before Max has a penalty or two coming his way. Even if they win Monaco (and they really have to), it is increasingly looking like this is going to be another Merc whitewash of the championships.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Siao7 »

Hamilton talked about RB's bendy rear wing this weekend. Was is it the old "passed the FIA test but still flexes under higher speeds" kind of situation?

Otherwise I think Merc was clearly faster in this GP, one more notch there

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 am
Four races so far, and the Merc had the faster car in 3 of them, with Bahrain being too close to call. The RBR might be quick on qualy (still think the Merc has the edge, not just looking at the relative pace of Perez/Bottas), in the race the Mercs are definitely quicker (and that's where points are handed out.

After Barcelona, it is 3.5 - 0.5 in favour of the Mercs - and with the reliability issues of the Hondas, it is a matter of time before Max has a penalty or two coming his way. Even if they win Monaco (and they really have to), it is increasingly looking like this is going to be another Merc whitewash of the championships.
Red Bull clearly started the season with the fastest car but according to you they've never had the fastest car, it feels like a corrupt boxing judge who has his scorecard filled in before the fight has even started.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 98 (1st)
Pole Positions: 100 (1st)
Podiums: 169 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

A.J.
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am

Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

pokerman wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:54 am
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 am
Four races so far, and the Merc had the faster car in 3 of them, with Bahrain being too close to call. The RBR might be quick on qualy (still think the Merc has the edge, not just looking at the relative pace of Perez/Bottas), in the race the Mercs are definitely quicker (and that's where points are handed out.

After Barcelona, it is 3.5 - 0.5 in favour of the Mercs - and with the reliability issues of the Hondas, it is a matter of time before Max has a penalty or two coming his way. Even if they win Monaco (and they really have to), it is increasingly looking like this is going to be another Merc whitewash of the championships.
Red Bull clearly started the season with the fastest car but according to you they've never had the fastest car, it feels like a corrupt boxing judge who has his scorecard filled in before the fight has even started.
It has been "clear" to you, but not to me. It is beyond ironic to see you of all people complaining of bias - clearly there are no mirrors where you're at.

As I have stated earlier in the thread - points are awarded in the race, so that's where the superiority matters. As we saw yesterday, even if RBR leads they can't pull out a gap, and the Merc has enough pace in reserve to win either outright or through strategy. In the interest of clarity, I will post my thoughts race-by-race:

Bahrain - Roughly equal - I honestly can't say one car was better than the other.
Imola - Merc was faster
Portugal - Merc much faster
Spain - Merc faster again

That's 3.5:0.5 in favour of the Mercs so far.

SR1
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:41 am

Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SR1 »

A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:05 am
pokerman wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:54 am
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 am
Four races so far, and the Merc had the faster car in 3 of them, with Bahrain being too close to call. The RBR might be quick on qualy (still think the Merc has the edge, not just looking at the relative pace of Perez/Bottas), in the race the Mercs are definitely quicker (and that's where points are handed out.

After Barcelona, it is 3.5 - 0.5 in favour of the Mercs - and with the reliability issues of the Hondas, it is a matter of time before Max has a penalty or two coming his way. Even if they win Monaco (and they really have to), it is increasingly looking like this is going to be another Merc whitewash of the championships.
Red Bull clearly started the season with the fastest car but according to you they've never had the fastest car, it feels like a corrupt boxing judge who has his scorecard filled in before the fight has even started.
It has been "clear" to you, but not to me. It is beyond ironic to see you of all people complaining of bias - clearly there are no mirrors where you're at.

As I have stated earlier in the thread - points are awarded in the race, so that's where the superiority matters. As we saw yesterday, even if RBR leads they can't pull out a gap, and the Merc has enough pace in reserve to win either outright or through strategy. In the interest of clarity, I will post my thoughts race-by-race:

Bahrain - Roughly equal - I honestly can't say one car was better than the other.
Imola - Merc was faster
Portugal - Merc much faster
Spain - Merc faster again

That's 3.5:0.5 in favour of the Mercs so far.
I'm struggling with Portugal-qualifying was a mess, while Horner saying RB was the faster car on the mediums (which was used for half of the race).

A.J.
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am

Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

SR1 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:08 pm
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:05 am
pokerman wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:54 am
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:24 am
Four races so far, and the Merc had the faster car in 3 of them, with Bahrain being too close to call. The RBR might be quick on qualy (still think the Merc has the edge, not just looking at the relative pace of Perez/Bottas), in the race the Mercs are definitely quicker (and that's where points are handed out.

After Barcelona, it is 3.5 - 0.5 in favour of the Mercs - and with the reliability issues of the Hondas, it is a matter of time before Max has a penalty or two coming his way. Even if they win Monaco (and they really have to), it is increasingly looking like this is going to be another Merc whitewash of the championships.
Red Bull clearly started the season with the fastest car but according to you they've never had the fastest car, it feels like a corrupt boxing judge who has his scorecard filled in before the fight has even started.
It has been "clear" to you, but not to me. It is beyond ironic to see you of all people complaining of bias - clearly there are no mirrors where you're at.

As I have stated earlier in the thread - points are awarded in the race, so that's where the superiority matters. As we saw yesterday, even if RBR leads they can't pull out a gap, and the Merc has enough pace in reserve to win either outright or through strategy. In the interest of clarity, I will post my thoughts race-by-race:

Bahrain - Roughly equal - I honestly can't say one car was better than the other.
Imola - Merc was faster
Portugal - Merc much faster
Spain - Merc faster again

That's 3.5:0.5 in favour of the Mercs so far.
I'm struggling with Portugal-qualifying was a mess, while Horner saying RB was the faster car on the mediums (which was used for half of the race).
Given how close Bottas was to Verstappen (being comfortably faster in clear air), and given the gulf between Hamilton and Verstappen, it is clear Portugal was Merc's race. I am not even considering where Perez ended up - just looking at the Verstappen/Bottas comparison is enough.

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