Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

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KingVoid
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by KingVoid »

A.J. wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:35 am
KingVoid wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:08 am
As for tyre wear, I think that the more abrasive track surfaces will favour Red Bull, while the less abrasive circuits will favour Mercedes.
Interesting - I know RBR was probably the faster car in Bahrain, but shouldn't this be the other way around? If the Merc is kinder on its tyres, they can go longer on the more abrasive track surfaces - and on the less abrasive ones the RBR has an advantage with tyre warm up and generally keeping them in their optimum window (something Bottas has apparently struggled with in Imola, even with the slicks in both quali and race).
There’s different types of tyre wear. Mercedes are very good at not graining or blistering their tyres in cold temperatures. However, I’m not convinced that they are better than Red Bull at not overheating the tyres in warm temperatures. Of course these are mostly assumptions, we’ll have to see how the season plays out.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by UnlikeUday »

RB Vs. Mercedes war will surely continue on in Portimao. As per weather forecasts, it's going to have rain around the GP weekend. It's already raining there as of now & keep doing so till race day.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/82481/ea ... tugal.html
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Badgeronimous »

KingVoid wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:08 am
I think that this is quite useful information when predicting how the cars will fare for the remainder of the 2021 season:


Image
source: https://f1bythenumbers.com/2019-f1-seas ... o-pirelli/


Now, the reason why I think this is quite useful is because it gives us some good clues about the circuit characteristics of each track.

Honda appear to match Mercedes on qualifying mode, but Mercedes still have the best engine on race day by a tiny margin. This likely means that Mercedes will have the edge over Red Bull on most power circuits.

Now what defines a power circuit? It might surprise some people, but the modern layout of Imola is actually a proper power circuit. Bottas' 2020 pole lap clocked an average speed of 240.08 km/h, which would put it fourth on the list only behind Monza, Silverstone and Red Bull Ring.

Portimao is a significantly slower circuit than Imola. Hamilton's 2020 pole lap clocked an average speed of only 212.71 km/h. I was surprised when I learned just how much of a power circuit the modern iteration of Imola really is. I guess that's what happens when you remove one chicane.

As for tyre wear, I think that the more abrasive track surfaces will favour Red Bull, while the less abrasive circuits will favour Mercedes.
Find that quite interesting. I've driven 3 tracks on that list - Silverstone, Spa and Yas Marina (technically driven Monaco too...... but on a moped..... when it public road)

However, the one thing I noted about Yas was how much grip there was. Even in a tin top it just felt like you could carry 10% more into everything compared to the European tracks - reality would be far less - but I found the grip massively impressive, even compared to the Dubai Autodrome. By a margin, the grippiest track of the 14 I've driven.

However that list rates grip levels lowly on that list which surprises me, especially since AFAIK it uses the same composition of asphalt as Bahrain - which rates highly.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by UnlikeUday »

In reference to the list above, Portimao & Netherlands would be at what level?
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by UnlikeUday »

Thought this article would be a perfect fit for his thread. It mentions about RB16B's details on the underside which were visible when Verstappen's car was picked up in FP2 & had a long drive back to the pits. Interesting stuff.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what ... s/6414873/
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Option or Prime »

So why would Ben Hodgkinson head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, leave Mercedes to become technical director at Red Bull's equivalent department then?

Isn't that a blow to Mercedes ahead of the development of the new engines?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56863348

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:27 pm
So why would Ben Hodgkinson head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, leave Mercedes to become technical director at Red Bull's equivalent department then?

Isn't that a blow to Mercedes ahead of the development of the new engines?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56863348
They made him an offer he couldn't refuse or it's part of the Mercedes cost cap, they've already lost several engine engineers to Renault.

Approaches have been made in the past mostly from Ferrari but all meant working outside of the UK, Red Bull are based in the UK, with the other engineers it became a case of having no other options if they wanted to stay in the industry.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Option or Prime wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:27 pm
So why would Ben Hodgkinson head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, leave Mercedes to become technical director at Red Bull's equivalent department then?rl]https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56863348[/url]
Maybe because they pay more?

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Option or Prime »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:05 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:27 pm
So why would Ben Hodgkinson head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, leave Mercedes to become technical director at Red Bull's equivalent department then?rl]https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56863348[/url]
Maybe because they pay more?
That is obvious! From Pokerman's comment he is clearly a target, it just seems that he would be taking treasured concepts and ideas to Red Bull from Mercedes. From the article it seems that Mercedes are not concerned about a gap between contracts to protect their intellectual property.

My thoughts are that since Red Bull are not developing their own PU simply maintaining the existing one the impact or loss of your team leader would be less critical. I just wondered why Mercedes seem relaxed at letting him go.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:26 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:05 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:27 pm
So why would Ben Hodgkinson head of mechanical engineering at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, leave Mercedes to become technical director at Red Bull's equivalent department then?rl]https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56863348[/url]
Maybe because they pay more?
That is obvious! From Pokerman's comment he is clearly a target, it just seems that he would be taking treasured concepts and ideas to Red Bull from Mercedes. From the article it seems that Mercedes are not concerned about a gap between contracts to protect their intellectual property.

My thoughts are that since Red Bull are not developing their own PU simply maintaining the existing one the impact or loss of your team leader would be less critical. I just wondered why Mercedes seem relaxed at letting him go.
I believe he joins Red Bull after the 2022 season at which point the engines are frozen, the Honda engine already appears to be near enough as good as the Mercedes so they don't need immediate performance as such.

The appointment seems more about developing the next version of F1 engine which appears in 2025 I believe so any affect you're going to see is 4 years down the line hence perhaps the lack of concern from Mercedes.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Flash2k11 »

If anyone thinks that those new hirings arent passing on any kind of info, even if it has to be through men in the middle, then they are deluded. You dont have to pass on hard data, just muse about a potential concept to the right person.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by JN23 »

Marko has allegedly said that Mercedes are trying to delay the move as long as they can https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... son-delay/

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by KingVoid »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:03 pm
Marko has allegedly said that Mercedes are trying to delay the move as long as they can https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... son-delay/
I don’t think that it matters much if Ben joins Red Bull in early 2022 or late 2022.

He won’t have any influence over the soon to be frozen engines, and I doubt that the 2025 engine regulations will be revealed until late 2022 at the earliest.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by JN23 »

Anyone have a view on who had the edge today?

Tough one to call as it seems Merc did on the mediums but Verstappen should have had pole if he didn't make the turn four mistake on his first Q3 run. Hamilton also said that he left time on the table but the conditions made it difficult to put in a perfect lap.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:10 pm
Anyone have a view on who had the edge today?

Tough one to call as it seems Merc did on the mediums but Verstappen should have had pole if he didn't make the turn four mistake on his first Q3 run. Hamilton also said that he left time on the table but the conditions made it difficult to put in a perfect lap.
I would say that Mercedes had the edge, Bottas was a good half second clear of Perez, I also think Hamilton had a fair bit left in the tank, the conditions made things hard for drivers to nail their laps.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

I give both qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 3 - 3 Red Bull
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

To be honest I think overall it's been very even so far. We've not had a race where I think it was impossible for either team to win. Merc maybe with a slight edge but Verstappen needs to get it together in quali.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

According to Ted in the Notebook, Red Bull ran their car with more downforce in qualifying compared to Imola, with the intention of guaranteeing pole and then running in clear air (which is why Max was so much faster in the twisty sections in the opening stint and much faster on the mediums) - which would have allowed them to pull away from Mercedes in the opening stint. However, instead - by failing to convert the pole - they were then stuck behind them and unable to pass as even with DRS they were too draggy on the straights.

Contrary to what Max tried to spin on the radio, it was not being too draggy that allowed Hamilton past, it was his error in the final sector that dropped him out of Bottas's DRS. While there can be little doubt that the Hamilton/Mercedes/Mercedes Strategy package was faster than the Max/Red Bull/Red Bull strategy package this weekend, it seems that the Red Bull drivers failed to fully deliver on the strategy Red Bull were aiming for (which was arguably quite risky given how close the cars were) - they tried a Vettel era strategy but that doesn't work if your driver fails to put it on P1 in qualifying.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Schermerhorn »

So they wanted to run and hide? Hmmmm

I dont think it would have worked. Lewis is still too strong.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SR1 »

pokerman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:12 pm
I give both qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 3 - 3 Red Bull
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs -abeit deleted.
Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums today. So, for me, the jury is out for this weekend.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by JN23 »

Very even season so far, I think I agree with Poker’s assessment of 3-3 so far but not 100% sure on the Imola race as it was so hard to call because of the nature of the race.

One thing is for sure, is that the cars are so close currently that the drivers need to be on the top of their game to maximise their results. Hamilton’s win in Bahrain was one of his best, his critical overtake on Bottas was brilliant. Verstappen’s race in Imola was very good too. They’ve really set themselves apart from their teammates so far.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

I think it's notable that the cars are close enough that all the three races so far have been won by the Red Bull/Mercedes driver who has done the best job on Sunday. If we keep that kind of parity it's going to be an exciting season.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Invade »

In simple terms, the advantages are small enough that any win so far isn't really surprising or any real 'underdog' win.

If one car is only marginally worse then it still has a good chance of winning almost whichever race (there are some exceptions).

So rather than thinking Hamilton, for example, put in some stellar performance in the worse car in Bahrain, it makes more sense to still acknowledge the performance but that it was in more or less in equal machinery -- that it was close enough that although his chances to win the race were arguably worse than Verstappen's, that they were still very high... say ~44% that Merc would win the race over Red Bull's 55%.

If this keeps up, then both Hamilton and Verstappen will win several races against the form book, when really all they'll be doing for the most part is taking such a percentage of such wins which is in line with expectations when the cars are just generally close.

For this reason, I'm not even really bothering anymore with keeping some definitive tally. I'm noting it but not treating it for any form of serious judgment between the quality of Hamilton's and Verstappen's performance, if that makes sense, nor using it to definitively attribute an edge to one team overall just based on some raw score.


It might be nice to get some technical discussion going on the relative upgrade packages both teams are bringing, and to have further discussion on the various strengths and weaknesses of the cars, as well as areas where Max and Lewis may have the edge over the other as racers.


Great stuff so far and long may it last.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

Redbull in qualifying and Mercedes in the race. I did see Horner say Redbull was faster on the mediums and Mercedes did look faster on the hards. Both drivers are making mistakes, Max in the last two qualifying sessions and today in the race which lead to the overtake. Plus Hamilton in Imola and falling asleep today at the restart.

Looking away from the speed of the cars I think Mercedes will probably be better reliability wise but the speed of the RB pitcrew is ridicolous, they can make over a second on there own.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

SR1 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:51 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:12 pm
I give both qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 3 - 3 Red Bull
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs -abeit deleted.
Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums today. So, for me, the jury is out for this weekend.
I was looking more at how Perez qualified while Hamilton passed Max on the medium tyres.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:53 pm
According to Ted in the Notebook, Red Bull ran their car with more downforce in qualifying compared to Imola, with the intention of guaranteeing pole and then running in clear air (which is why Max was so much faster in the twisty sections in the opening stint and much faster on the mediums) - which would have allowed them to pull away from Mercedes in the opening stint. However, instead - by failing to convert the pole - they were then stuck behind them and unable to pass as even with DRS they were too draggy on the straights.

Contrary to what Max tried to spin on the radio, it was not being too draggy that allowed Hamilton past, it was his error in the final sector that dropped him out of Bottas's DRS. While there can be little doubt that the Hamilton/Mercedes/Mercedes Strategy package was faster than the Max/Red Bull/Red Bull strategy package this weekend, it seems that the Red Bull drivers failed to fully deliver on the strategy Red Bull were aiming for (which was arguably quite risky given how close the cars were) - they tried a Vettel era strategy but that doesn't work if your driver fails to put it on P1 in qualifying.
It reminds me of Leclerc last time out, he had his car set up for the wet, big rear wing, but when the track dried out he then complained about the car being slow on the straight, also is it not a case of high rake cars being slower on the straight when compared to low rake cars, drivers will always want the best of everything.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Covalent »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:53 pm
According to Ted in the Notebook, Red Bull ran their car with more downforce in qualifying compared to Imola, with the intention of guaranteeing pole and then running in clear air (which is why Max was so much faster in the twisty sections in the opening stint and much faster on the mediums) - which would have allowed them to pull away from Mercedes in the opening stint. However, instead - by failing to convert the pole - they were then stuck behind them and unable to pass as even with DRS they were too draggy on the straights.

Contrary to what Max tried to spin on the radio, it was not being too draggy that allowed Hamilton past, it was his error in the final sector that dropped him out of Bottas's DRS. While there can be little doubt that the Hamilton/Mercedes/Mercedes Strategy package was faster than the Max/Red Bull/Red Bull strategy package this weekend, it seems that the Red Bull drivers failed to fully deliver on the strategy Red Bull were aiming for (which was arguably quite risky given how close the cars were) - they tried a Vettel era strategy but that doesn't work if your driver fails to put it on P1 in qualifying.
Now I understand why Max was so visibly devastated after quali, he knew already then he'd probably not be able to win. It was a gamble that could have payed off but didn't.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

Close again - points are handed out on Sunday though, and the Merc was clearly the quicker car here. Bottas was catching Verstappen towards the end before his exhaust sensor issue - given the deficit on the straights, I think he would have passed Max before the end.

I think overall the RBR is a slightly slower car overall than the Merc currently, with a miniscule advantage in qualifying.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SR1 »

pokerman wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:30 am
SR1 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:51 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:12 pm
I give both qualifying and the race to Mercedes so:-

Mercedes 3 - 3 Red Bull
Verstappen posted the fastest time in Q3 on the softs -abeit deleted.
Horner conceded RB were quickest on the mediums today. So, for me, the jury is out for this weekend.
I was looking more at how Perez qualified while Hamilton passed Max on the medium tyres.
Max made a mistake, which facilitated Lewis's overtake.

Checo is still adjusting to a new team and car. And to be fair, his qualifying prowess has never been highly rated.

With Horner conceding RB having the fastest car on the mediums, it's not so clear cut which car was better imo.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:28 am
Close again - points are handed out on Sunday though, and the Merc was clearly the quicker car here. Bottas was catching Verstappen towards the end before his exhaust sensor issue - given the deficit on the straights, I think he would have passed Max before the end.

I think overall the RBR is a slightly slower car overall than the Merc currently, with a miniscule advantage in qualifying.
Hamilton overtook both Bottas and Verstappen with the help of mistakes so I personally dont think Bottas gets past Verstappen. It took Bottas a long time to catch Verstapoen and when the gap got to 1.1 then Verstappen put in 2 faster laps before the temporary issue. When you look at the lap times you can see Bottas didnt have the pace to sit in Verstappens DRS for continuous laps even if he gets in DRS range once and I cant see Bottas dealing with the dirty air better than both Hamilton and Verstappen earlier in the race.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by A.J. »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:43 am
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:28 am
Close again - points are handed out on Sunday though, and the Merc was clearly the quicker car here. Bottas was catching Verstappen towards the end before his exhaust sensor issue - given the deficit on the straights, I think he would have passed Max before the end.

I think overall the RBR is a slightly slower car overall than the Merc currently, with a miniscule advantage in qualifying.
Hamilton overtook both Bottas and Verstappen with the help of mistakes so I personally dont think Bottas gets past Verstappen. It took Bottas a long time to catch Verstapoen and when the gap got to 1.1 then Verstappen put in 2 faster laps before the temporary issue. When you look at the lap times you can see Bottas didnt have the pace to sit in Verstappens DRS for continuous laps even if he gets in DRS range once and I cant see Bottas dealing with the dirty air better than both Hamilton and Verstappen earlier in the race.
Bottas' overtaking skills leave a lot to be desired, but it doesn't change the conclusion that the Merc was the car to have around Portimao. Wolff said later that Bottas was pacing himself to have a go at Verstappen later, although I can't say he would have definitely been successful with it.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:08 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:43 am
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:28 am
Close again - points are handed out on Sunday though, and the Merc was clearly the quicker car here. Bottas was catching Verstappen towards the end before his exhaust sensor issue - given the deficit on the straights, I think he would have passed Max before the end.

I think overall the RBR is a slightly slower car overall than the Merc currently, with a miniscule advantage in qualifying.
Hamilton overtook both Bottas and Verstappen with the help of mistakes so I personally dont think Bottas gets past Verstappen. It took Bottas a long time to catch Verstapoen and when the gap got to 1.1 then Verstappen put in 2 faster laps before the temporary issue. When you look at the lap times you can see Bottas didnt have the pace to sit in Verstappens DRS for continuous laps even if he gets in DRS range once and I cant see Bottas dealing with the dirty air better than both Hamilton and Verstappen earlier in the race.
Bottas' overtaking skills leave a lot to be desired, but it doesn't change the conclusion that the Merc was the car to have around Portimao. Wolff said later that Bottas was pacing himself to have a go at Verstappen later, although I can't say he would have definitely been successful with it.
I would take what Wolff said with a pinch of salt, we just need to look at Bottas of past and in that race. Mercedes was just abit faster on the harder tyres, not enough for Bottas to be overtake.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by tootsie323 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by TedStriker »

tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by F1_Ernie »

TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
Some posters seem to write this but both Marko and Horner said Max was faster on the softs but Mercedes on the hards. I couldnt look at any of the races so far and think one car has a pace advantage in the whole race. It's mostly come down to other factors like Max car issue in Bahrain, drivers making mistakes, pitstops etc. If Max gets pole then he has a good chance to win in Portugal but again a small mistake has a bigger effect.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 98 (1st)
Pole Positions: 100 (1st)
Podiums: 169 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

SlipstreamF1
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by SlipstreamF1 »

I didn't think it was close at all. Merc to me clearly had the faster car. Even Wolff admitted it on the radio (whoops!). It also helps to have the faster drivers as well. :lol: The car is just so smooth whereas RBR is a twitchy beast. They have a stronger engine this year, so they can run more DF for the corners and still have enough straight away speed in an open field, but not enough to defend against overtaking.

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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
TedStriker wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:44 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:41 pm
The cars are just so close this year that every little mistake makes the difference, Hamilton made a big mistake in Imola and got very lucky. Verstappen could have had 3 poles but for driving errors, Hamilton and Verstappen both made errors in the Portugal race. You can see why Verstappen was gutted Saturday as apparently the car was set up for quali. So many little things and it's just 3 races in, two teams fighting for the title are always the best.
This. Whist it's so close, small mistakes can make all the difference. Hamilton can count himself fortunate that his one big mistake (Imola) did not cost him 18 (or 19, considering that he nagged FL as well) points. What I do like is that both protagonists seem to be reveling in the fight.
Let's be honest - Lewis is never going to say that he doesn't enjoy the fight even if he'd prefer to cruise to another world title, and Max of course is going to revel in actually having a car than can challenge for the win.

This weekend did feel a little ominous though in terms of Mercedes performance (although I won't use the word dominance... yet). I'd be happy if Lewis wins another title by outdriving others like he did this weekend, not so much if it's simply cruising home in the fastest car again.

He has the real opportunity to silence some detractors this year, and with talks of retirement a tough year long battle that he eventually wins would leave a great impression.
I think perhaps he's already silenced one or two posters who firmly believed that given equal cars Max would wash Hamilton.
I would imagine those people simply believe the cars aren't equal. Much easier than admitting you're wrong.
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Re: Mercedes vs Red Bull - 2021

Post by pokerman »

SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:39 pm
I didn't think it was close at all. Merc to me clearly had the faster car. Even Wolff admitted it on the radio (whoops!). It also helps to have the faster drivers as well. :lol: The car is just so smooth whereas RBR is a twitchy beast. They have a stronger engine this year, so they can run more DF for the corners and still have enough straight away speed in an open field, but not enough to defend against overtaking.
It was Max that had more downforce with a bigger rear wing, the car was set up for qualifying, Hamilton even has less rear wing than Bottas that being Hamilton set his car up for the race realising it's a track you can pass on, and then it becomes all so unfair because a car is slow on the straight.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 98 (1st)
Pole Positions: 100 (1st)
Podiums: 169 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

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