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Before I get into the totals for the season, we've got one last set of results to review...

Abu Dhabi GP Vote Results

Mercedes: Bottas wins with 91% of the vote (10-1)
Ferrari: Leclerc wins with 91% of the vote (10-1)
Red Bull: Verstappen wins with 100% of the vote (12-0)
McLaren: Norris wins with 83% of the vote (10-2)
Renault: Ricciardo wins with 100% of the vote (13-0)
AlphaTauri: Gasly wins with 83% of the vote (10-2)
Racing Point: Perez wins with 100% of the vote (8-0)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen wins with 91% of the vote (10-1)
Haas: Magnussen wins with 100% of the vote (12-0)
Williams: Russell wins with 85% of the vote (11-2)

As most of these were already settled, I won't dwell on those but will instead move onto the results for 2020. Starting with the most lopsided results so that the only vague amount of suspense (McLaren) comes last:

Red Bull: Verstappen wins 16-1 (with 92% of the season vote)
I don't think anyone will be too surprised that the biggest winning margin was for Max Verstappen. The Dutchman was a single vote away from completing a clean sweep as his only defeat came at the Tuscan GP, where he lost by a single vote. Of the 17 races, Albon received no votes on 11 occasions, and a total of just 19 votes for the entire season.

Renault: Ricciardo wins 14-3 (with 82% of the season vote)
Max's former teammate (and so far the only driver to really get close to him since I started these threads) also had a strong season, comfortably outperforming Esteban Ocon to take the TMW honours at the soon-to-be Alpine team. While Ocon fared a little better than Alex Albon, he still had nine races where nobody voted for him and also failed to win back-to-back TMW votes at any point in the year. He'll undoubtedly have his hands full in 2021 when he goes out of the frying pan and into the fire...

Mercedes: Hamilton wins 13-3 (with 83% of the season vote)
There is a strong argument that Covid cost Hamilton the second best set of TMW results for the season, as it not only robbed him of a race weekend, it also put him on the back foot physically for the final race of the year. It means that Valtteri Bottas bookends the season, having also taken the TMW win in the season opening Austrian GP, but besides that it was another woeful season for the Finn as Hamilton absolutely crushed him. He also lost to George Russell in the one race they were teammates, which leads us nicely onto...

Williams: Russell wins 13-2 (with 80% of the season vote)
Two seasons in F1 and two comfortable TMW victories for George Russell. The Brit wasn't expected to be troubled by Latifi and that's how it went, starting the year with seven straight TMW wins and never looking back. Latifi did manage to avoid too many no vote weekends, registering just three, although there were five further races where he only received a single vote, suggesting that someone may have been voting for him irrespective of performance. The two also shared a tie at the Russian GP, one of just two occasions where that happened all season.

AlphaTauri: Gasly wins 12-4 (with 70% of the season vote)
A phenomenal bounceback season for Pierre Gasly saw the Frenchman take a famous maiden victory, as well as enjoying a much better TMW performance than he did alongside Max Verstappen. Like George Russell, he opened up an early advantage (4-0 after four races and 7-1 after eight races) which meant it was never really in doubt. Kvyat did manage to string together back-to-back TMW wins in Tuscany and Russia but couldn't carry on the momentum. Like the Williams pair, these two also drew a round (Turkey).

Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen wins 12-5 (with 76% of the season vote)
The good news for Antonio Giovinazzi is that 2020's TMW result isn't as bad as 2019's. The bad news is he still didn't really get close to his ageing (or should that be ageless?) teammate in the end result, allowing another comfortable win for Kimi. One potential positive? The pair both won four of the final eight TMW votes, suggesting that 2021 could be more competitive, which Giovinazzi will surely need to retain his seat beyond the end of the year.

Racing Point: Perez wins 11-3 (with 73% of the season vote)
Another TMW result that was somewhat skewed by Covid is at Racing Point. Checo Perez wins it 11-3 for the year but that doesn't tell the whole story, as three races were lost to the pandemic. Given how well Perez drove - in particular taking the last six TMW wins and limiting Stroll to just two votes across those six races - it's hard not to believe that this would've looked even more lopsided had they raced as teammates for all 17 races. Perez will now try to succeed where his two predecessors have failed and get in the same ballpark as Max Verstappen, while Lance Stroll will look to boost his reputation by taking advantage of a wounded Sebastian Vettel. Was that statement put in entirely for the purpose of being a good segue into the Ferrari TMW result? Well...

Ferrari: Leclerc wins 11-6 (with 63% of the season vote)
I guess it was. After splitting the decision in 2019, Charles Leclerc goes one better and takes both the TMW wins and the overall vote in 2020. It was close until Belgium, at which point Seb saw his 4-3 advantage eroded as Charles rattled off six successive TMW wins. Even then it wasn't the landslide some may have predicted, but it was definitely the end of an era at the Scuderia.

Haas: Magnussen wins 9-6 (with 61% of the season vote)
Another TMW that didn't see the full 17 races, however unlike the others this one was not impacted by Covid, but instead by Romain Grosjean's horrifying crash. After a slow start, falling 4-0 and then 5-1 behind, Grosjean managed to get back within a single TMW win on a couple of occasions, but was never able to fully recover. Truth be told, you have to think Magnussen probably would've edged it had the last two races not been lost (three if you consider how the crash meant the Bahrain vote was basically determined by quali) as he had the measure of Romain in the votes across the three years I've been conducting them.

McLaren: Norris wins 9-8 (with 44% of the season vote)
The closest vote of all and the only to be decided at the last race sees Lando Norris take it at the line. Having been ahead 2-0, then 3-2 and 4-3, a string of three TMW wins in a row had given Norris a 7-4 lead. Yet Sainz rallied by taking three wins in a row of his own to again tie things at 7-7. The pair split the results in Bahrain meaning it all came down to Abu Dhabi, where Norris' 10-2 victory in the vote gives him the TMW honours for 2020. However, it comes with the caveat that Sainz actually received more votes across the season, 181 vs 141, perhaps fitting giving how closely matched the pair have seemed.

So, there we have it. In the coming weeks, I'll be posting the prediction threads for the 2021 pairings, probably two at a time so they can each stay open a little longer. I'll also probably come back to this thread and look at the overall head to heads for those who were teammates for more than a single season and anything else I think of (for instance, I did some overall totals in the 2019 results thread so I'll probably add to those). Thanks to all those who voted and voiced their opinions in the polls. Hopefully numbers on the forum return to what we'd seen in previous years in 2021.

In case anyone is curious, here are the results of the 2020 prediction threads...

Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton 94% - 6% Valtteri Bottas
Ferrari: Charles Leclerc 83% - 17% Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull: Max Verstappen 95% - 5% Alex Albon
McLaren: Lando Norris 75% - 25% Carlos Sainz
Renault: Daniel Ricciardo 82% - 18% Esteban Ocon
AlphaTauri: Pierre Gasly 82% - 18% Daniil Kvyat
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

How difficult most of those were to predict is debatable, but nevertheless we correctly identified all ten TMW winners prior to the start of the season. We missed the giant pandemic turning the season (and the world) upside down but hey, can't win them all!

Good thread, look forward to the 2021 prediction thread.

I tend to think that, of all the places where I see voting on driver performance, these threads are the most accurate. The noise from people just voting for their favorite driver is quite impressively low, indicating that you've managed to make a thread on the internet where people take the result seriously and act with decorum.

That's quite the achievement.

This is actually true. It says something that I refer to these rankings more than any kind of media rating found elsewhere.

I think that this years team mate battles were fairly easy to call on the whole and will actually get easier next year. I think only Alfa Romeo and Haas are the ones there won't be a strong consensus over.

Thank you for running this!

J.U. Thanks for all of the effort you put into these polls!

Exediron wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:45 pm

I tend to think that, of all the places where I see voting on driver performance, these threads are the most accurate. The noise from people just voting for their favorite driver is quite impressively low, indicating that you've managed to make a thread on the internet where people take the result seriously and act with decorum.

That's quite the achievement.

+1

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 26%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 24%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 28%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

And some running totals, with inactive drivers in 2020 in italics:

Total TMW Races Receiving 0 Votes

Bottas - 20 from 59 races (6 in 2018, 5 in 2019, 9 in 2020)
Albon - 14 from 38 races (3 in 2019, 11 in 2020)
Giovinazzi - 14 from 38 races (9 in 2019, 5 in 2020)
Stroll - 11 from 58 races (6 in 2019, 5 in 2020)
Ocon - 9 from 38 races (all from 2020)
Vettel - 9 from 59 races (1 in 2018, 2 in 2019, 6 in 2020)
Gasly - 8 from 38 races (all from 2019)
Kubica - 7 from 21 races (all from 2019)
Norris - 5 from 38 races (2 in 2019, 3 in 2020)
Kvyat - 5 from 38 races (1 in 2019, 4 in 2020)
Ericsson - 4 from 21 races (all from 2018)
Grosjean - 4 from 57 races (3 in 2018, 1 in 2019)
Sainz - 4 from 59 races (1 in 2018, 1 in 2019, 2 in 2020)
Latifi - 3 from 17 races (all from 2020)
Hartley - 3 from 21 races (all from 2018)
Ricciardo - 3 from 59 races (all from 2018)
Vandoorne - 3 from 21 races (all from 2018)
Hulkenberg - 3 from 45 races (1 in 2018, 1 in 2019, 1 in 2020)
Fittipaldi - 2 from 2 races (all from 2020)
Perez - 2 from 57 races (1 in 2018, 1 in 2020)
Hamilton - 1 from 58 races (all from 2019)
Raikkonen - 1 from 59 races (all from 2018)
Verstappen - 1 from 59 races (all from 2018)
Magnussen - 0 from 59 races
Russell - 0 from 38 races
Sirotkin - 0 from 21 races
Alonso - 0 from 21 races
Aitken - 0 from 1 race

Overall Total TMW Race Wins

Verstappen - 47
Hamilton - 46
Perez - 39
Magnussen - 38
Raikkonen - 38
Ricciardo - 38
Leclerc - 36
Russell - 33
Gasly - 32
Sainz - 31
Vettel - 30
Grosjean - 20
Stroll - 20
Alonso - 17
Norris - 17
Ocon - 14
Hulkenberg - 14
Kvyat - 13
Bottas - 12
Albon - 11
Giovinazzi - 8
Sirotkin - 7
Ericsson - 6
Hartley - 6
Vandoorne - 4
Latifi - 3
Kubica - 2
Aitken - 0
Fittipaldi - 0

Kevin Magnussen receiving at least one vote for every race from the past three seasons is something I hadn't noticed until totting those numbers up, and I'm genuinely a bit surprised by it. I thought it might be a lone voter (I see you, Jan Magnussen) relentlessly opting for the Dane, but looking back over the numbers that does not appear to be the case. He's had races where he only received two votes (x3 occasions in 2018 and once in 2020) and three votes (x3 occasions in 2018) but in general he's had a handful of votes at least at each race.

Does it go to show that the Haas pair have been really well matched? After all, Grosjean himself only had four races where he received zero votes, though he also had a further six races where he was only deemed worthy of a single vote. Have they been consistently competitive with each other to the point where, most of the time, there has been at least an argument that either was the better performer over the weekend?

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

Unless there is a reason the percentages add up to over 100% and I'm missing something, I'm guessing this is a mistake?

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

I think the only stage where one driver was way behind the other was the first half of 2018 where Grosjean was terrible. From then on, i feel he got a bad reputation. It effected people's view on him elsewhere far worse than here, but I still think grosjean was better in 2019 but the results really didn't show that. I've said all this before, but he had 7 retirements as well as a MGU-k failure which cost him 4th place or even a podium. magnussen had 3. Without all these and close to even luck, I am pretty sure Grosjean will have been voted as the better driver for 2019.

This year I think magnussen has just about edged him, but barely. One of the votes this season was voted for too soon before most knew the reason why Magnussen finished ahead in Styria. It was team orders and Grosjean never got given the position back despite keeping right behind magnussen. I think that many of the decisions on what driver to go for have been guessing who did the better job - and that is possibly related to what you say by not being that interested to follow them closely.

IMO they have been the closest pair of team mates this year.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

It well reflects that Magnussen was often better ( although not by much) and made significantly less mistakes.

Many people underestimate what both drivers did with this car which was the worst-to-drive and least-balanced car on the grid in the last 2-3 seasons - and by far the worst with the tyres. It was not the outright slowest - but that's the only positive thing you can say about the Haas, really.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:54 am

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

Unless there is a reason the percentages add up to over 100% and I'm missing something, I'm guessing this is a mistake?

Well spotted - the larger numbers were correct so the second numbers should all have been 10% lower. I've amended the original post.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

I think the only stage where one driver was way behind the other was the first half of 2018 where Grosjean was terrible. From then on, i feel he got a bad reputation. It effected people's view on him elsewhere far worse than here, but I still think grosjean was better in 2019 but the results really didn't show that. I've said all this before, but he had 7 retirements as well as a MGU-k failure which cost him 4th place or even a podium. magnussen had 3. Without all these and close to even luck, I am pretty sure Grosjean will have been voted as the better driver for 2019.

This year I think magnussen has just about edged him, but barely. One of the votes this season was voted for too soon before most knew the reason why Magnussen finished ahead in Styria. It was team orders and Grosjean never got given the position back despite keeping right behind magnussen. I think that many of the decisions on what driver to go for have been guessing who did the better job - and that is possibly related to what you say by not being that interested to follow them closely.

IMO they have been the closest pair of team mates this year.

What’s the race where Grosjean missed out on 4th place or a podium in 2019?

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

I think the only stage where one driver was way behind the other was the first half of 2018 where Grosjean was terrible. From then on, i feel he got a bad reputation. It effected people's view on him elsewhere far worse than here, but I still think grosjean was better in 2019 but the results really didn't show that. I've said all this before, but he had 7 retirements as well as a MGU-k failure which cost him 4th place or even a podium. magnussen had 3. Without all these and close to even luck, I am pretty sure Grosjean will have been voted as the better driver for 2019.

This year I think magnussen has just about edged him, but barely. One of the votes this season was voted for too soon before most knew the reason why Magnussen finished ahead in Styria. It was team orders and Grosjean never got given the position back despite keeping right behind magnussen. I think that many of the decisions on what driver to go for have been guessing who did the better job - and that is possibly related to what you say by not being that interested to follow them closely.

IMO they have been the closest pair of team mates this year.

What’s the race where Grosjean missed out on 4th place or a podium in 2019?

See, it certainly isn't remembered well is it? Even Sainz commented after the race that Grosjean was his main target to get past after the final restart as Grosjean was on a similar strategy. As the safety car ended, note that Grosjean was 7th and Sainz was 8th. We know that Vettel and Leclerc collected each other, and Hamilton collected albon. At the restart, Sainz pushed Grosjean onto the artificial grass which could have gone horribly wrong and I feel it would have been investigated if not for being a restart. Grosjean had a right to be annoyed as this made him lose many places. Had he kept this position, he had the 2 Saubers behind him which likely will have not been much threat for Grosjean as the Hass was decent this year and they likely will have been able to hold up Perez until the end over the remaining laps. Anyhow, had Grosjean not had an MGU-K failure right after getting pushed off by Sainz, I think 4th place was pretty much guaranteed. Even if either Sauber had got past him, he will have got the position back anyway.

Back when we did the DOTD votes for this race, i was quite amazed i was the only one to vote for Grosjean with 120 votes going to other drivers added up. So many people I feel just didn't notice it because he fell back because of his engine troubles. Even without the fortune which would have given Gasly, Sainz and him that great result, he still was on target for 7th which to me still deserves several votes.

Despite me thinking Grosjean is towards the bottom of the grid for my overall ranking of his ability, Is till think he is probably the most under rated driver on the grid because so many judge him by predicting what may have happened based on when he has been poor. A lot of the time he's actually decent and his good performances always seem to get missed unless he gets a good finishing position to show it.

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:32 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

It well reflects that Magnussen was often better ( although not by much) and made significantly less mistakes.

Many people underestimate what both drivers did with this car which was the worst-to-drive and least-balanced car on the grid in the last 2-3 seasons - and by far the worst with the tyres. It was not the outright slowest - but that's the only positive thing you can say about the Haas, really.

Magnusen and grosjean have been pretty much equal in terms of mistakes since the middle of 2018. As I keep mentioning I think Grosjean's luck of 7 retirements in 2019 (just one being partially his fault - but also just as much Magnussen) makes too many assume he's made so many mistakes. He's made very few big mistakes in the past 2 and a half seasons. He's also collected no penalty points over the past year which isn't the case for more than half the drivers on the grid. So as of recently, grosjean making significantly more errors really isn't true.

In case anyone is wondering, I've not started the prediction threads for this season yet in part because the start of the season has been pushed back a week due to the postponement of the Australian GP, but mainly because I'm waiting to see if there is an announcement from Mercedes. Obviously if that keeps dragging on without a resolution then I'll start the threads and just avoid Mercedes/Williams but for now, like everyone else, I'm just waiting to see what happens.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:43 am

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Here's the combined data for teammates who have spent more than one season together. In all cases, the numbers are listed in the same order as the driver's names.

Lewis Hamilton vs. Valtteri Bottas (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 46 vs. 12
Votes: 1109 vs. 387
Percentage: 74% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 20

Charles Leclerc vs. Sebastian Vettel (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 505 vs. 376
Percentage: 57% vs. 43%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 8

Max Verstappen vs. Alex Albon (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 5
Votes: 330 vs. 106
Percentage: 76% vs. 34%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Carlos Sainz vs. Lando Norris (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 1
TMW race wins: 21 vs. 17
Votes: 458 vs. 376
Percentage: 55% vs. 45%
Races with zero votes: 3 vs. 5

Pierre Gasly vs. Daniil Kvyat (one and a half TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 1 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 17 vs. 8
Votes: 318 vs. 168
Percentage: 65% vs. 35%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 5

Sergio Perez vs. Lance Stroll (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 29 vs. 6
Votes: 563 vs. 224
Percentage: 72% vs. 38%
Races with zero votes: 1 vs. 11

Kimi Raikkonen vs. Antonio Giovinazzi (two TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 2 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 30 vs. 8
Votes: 699 vs. 163
Percentage: 81% vs. 19%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 14

Kevin Magnussen vs. Romain Grosjean (three TMW seasons together)
TMW season wins: 3 vs. 0
TMW race wins: 36 vs. 20
Votes: 791 vs. 449
Percentage: 64% vs. 36%
Races with zero votes: 0 vs. 4

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

I think the only stage where one driver was way behind the other was the first half of 2018 where Grosjean was terrible. From then on, i feel he got a bad reputation. It effected people's view on him elsewhere far worse than here, but I still think grosjean was better in 2019 but the results really didn't show that. I've said all this before, but he had 7 retirements as well as a MGU-k failure which cost him 4th place or even a podium. magnussen had 3. Without all these and close to even luck, I am pretty sure Grosjean will have been voted as the better driver for 2019.

This year I think magnussen has just about edged him, but barely. One of the votes this season was voted for too soon before most knew the reason why Magnussen finished ahead in Styria. It was team orders and Grosjean never got given the position back despite keeping right behind magnussen. I think that many of the decisions on what driver to go for have been guessing who did the better job - and that is possibly related to what you say by not being that interested to follow them closely.

IMO they have been the closest pair of team mates this year.

What’s the race where Grosjean missed out on 4th place or a podium in 2019?

See, it certainly isn't remembered well is it? Even Sainz commented after the race that Grosjean was his main target to get past after the final restart as Grosjean was on a similar strategy. As the safety car ended, note that Grosjean was 7th and Sainz was 8th. We know that Vettel and Leclerc collected each other, and Hamilton collected albon. At the restart, Sainz pushed Grosjean onto the artificial grass which could have gone horribly wrong and I feel it would have been investigated if not for being a restart. Grosjean had a right to be annoyed as this made him lose many places. Had he kept this position, he had the 2 Saubers behind him which likely will have not been much threat for Grosjean as the Hass was decent this year and they likely will have been able to hold up Perez until the end over the remaining laps. Anyhow, had Grosjean not had an MGU-K failure right after getting pushed off by Sainz, I think 4th place was pretty much guaranteed. Even if either Sauber had got past him, he will have got the position back anyway.

Back when we did the DOTD votes for this race, i was quite amazed i was the only one to vote for Grosjean with 120 votes going to other drivers added up. So many people I feel just didn't notice it because he fell back because of his engine troubles. Even without the fortune which would have given Gasly, Sainz and him that great result, he still was on target for 7th which to me still deserves several votes.

Despite me thinking Grosjean is towards the bottom of the grid for my overall ranking of his ability, Is till think he is probably the most under rated driver on the grid because so many judge him by predicting what may have happened based on when he has been poor. A lot of the time he's actually decent and his good performances always seem to get missed unless he gets a good finishing position to show it.

I only asked which race, as I couldn’t recall but a lot happened in that race (Brazil 2019), it isn’t too surprising that Grosjean’s bad luck is forgotten.

Multiple changes of lead, Hamilton/Albon, two new podium finishers, Ferrari’s crashing for a start.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:29 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:43 am

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

It's interesting that KMag beat Grosjean all 3 seasons and the size of the gap is surprising given what was seen as generally a close match up, this otherwise wouldn't have come to light given that people became somewhat disinterested with the pairing, not helped by the uncompetitiveness of the car.

I think the only stage where one driver was way behind the other was the first half of 2018 where Grosjean was terrible. From then on, i feel he got a bad reputation. It effected people's view on him elsewhere far worse than here, but I still think grosjean was better in 2019 but the results really didn't show that. I've said all this before, but he had 7 retirements as well as a MGU-k failure which cost him 4th place or even a podium. magnussen had 3. Without all these and close to even luck, I am pretty sure Grosjean will have been voted as the better driver for 2019.

This year I think magnussen has just about edged him, but barely. One of the votes this season was voted for too soon before most knew the reason why Magnussen finished ahead in Styria. It was team orders and Grosjean never got given the position back despite keeping right behind magnussen. I think that many of the decisions on what driver to go for have been guessing who did the better job - and that is possibly related to what you say by not being that interested to follow them closely.

IMO they have been the closest pair of team mates this year.

What’s the race where Grosjean missed out on 4th place or a podium in 2019?

See, it certainly isn't remembered well is it? Even Sainz commented after the race that Grosjean was his main target to get past after the final restart as Grosjean was on a similar strategy. As the safety car ended, note that Grosjean was 7th and Sainz was 8th. We know that Vettel and Leclerc collected each other, and Hamilton collected albon. At the restart, Sainz pushed Grosjean onto the artificial grass which could have gone horribly wrong and I feel it would have been investigated if not for being a restart. Grosjean had a right to be annoyed as this made him lose many places. Had he kept this position, he had the 2 Saubers behind him which likely will have not been much threat for Grosjean as the Hass was decent this year and they likely will have been able to hold up Perez until the end over the remaining laps. Anyhow, had Grosjean not had an MGU-K failure right after getting pushed off by Sainz, I think 4th place was pretty much guaranteed. Even if either Sauber had got past him, he will have got the position back anyway.

Back when we did the DOTD votes for this race, i was quite amazed i was the only one to vote for Grosjean with 120 votes going to other drivers added up. So many people I feel just didn't notice it because he fell back because of his engine troubles. Even without the fortune which would have given Gasly, Sainz and him that great result, he still was on target for 7th which to me still deserves several votes.

Despite me thinking Grosjean is towards the bottom of the grid for my overall ranking of his ability, Is till think he is probably the most under rated driver on the grid because so many judge him by predicting what may have happened based on when he has been poor. A lot of the time he's actually decent and his good performances always seem to get missed unless he gets a good finishing position to show it.

I only asked which race, as I couldn’t recall but a lot happened in that race (Brazil 2019), it isn’t too surprising that Grosjean’s bad luck is forgotten.

Multiple changes of lead, Hamilton/Albon, two new podium finishers, Ferrari’s crashing for a start.

Sorry about the over reaction and not thinking to include the race name! Yea, I can understand that a lot was forgotten as there was so many retirements and penalties. For some reason I thought that was the race the two saubers got a 30 second penalty but that was germany i think. It is just that in a sense for the ability of his car, Grosjean's race was as impressive as Sainz's and Sainz is very well remembered for this despite making the sort of move people would likely remark is dangerous if Grosjean had done it.