How will Perez perform against Max?

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Predict Perez's record against Max

Poll runs till Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Perez out qualifies 18-23 events, Perez finishes ahead in 18-23 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 18-23 events, Perez finishes ahead in 12-17 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 18-23 events, Perez finishes ahead in 6-11 races
1
3%
Perez out qualifies 18-23 events, Perez finishes ahead in 0-5 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 12-17 events, Perez finishes ahead in 18-23 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 12-17 events, Perez finishes ahead in 12-17 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 12-17 events, Perez finishes ahead in 6-11 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 12-17 events, Perez finishes ahead in 0-5 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 6-11 events, Perez finishes ahead in 18-23 races
1
3%
Perez out qualifies 6-11 events, Perez finishes ahead in 12-17 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 6-11 events, Perez finishes ahead in 6-11 races
7
20%
Perez out qualifies 6-11 events, Perez finishes ahead in 0-5 races
1
3%
Perez out qualifies 0-5 events, Perez finishes ahead in 18-23 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 0-5 events, Perez finishes ahead in 12-17 races
0
No votes
Perez out qualifies 0-5 events, Perez finishes ahead in 6-11 races
13
37%
Perez out qualifies 0-5 events, Perez finishes ahead in 0-5 races
12
34%
 
Total votes: 35

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Alienturnedhuman
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How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

How do we feel Perez will perform against Max?

Pick your prediction the qualifying/race record in the poll and discuss!

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Invade
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Invade »

Spanked in qualifying and a reliable backup in races, a thorn in the side of Mercedes and a chap to pick up the pieces when required. He'll do what Red Bull need.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by F1Tyrant »

My more accurate guess would be 19-4 to Verstappen in qualifying and 15-8 to Verstappen in the races.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by pokerman »

With a qualifying gap of at least 3 tenths I expect close to a whitewash, similar in the races but Perez more competitive and will be a better back up than what Albon was.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by mikeyg123 »

In all honesty it depends on the pecking order. If the Red Bull is once again clearly the 2nd fastest car then Perez could perform well in races and whilst not beating Verstappen in races could do enough to have a good season and score multiple podiums and maybe a few wins. Especially if he is allowed to run alternative strategies, he should certainly be able to put the wind up the Merc's.

Now if the Red Bull have been caught by the chasing pack he might let to many guys between him and Max in qualifying and will thus struggle to make an impact at the sharp end in races.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Banana Man »

Perez to consistently be 2-3 tenths off instead of 5-7 tenths off for Albon.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Siao7 »

Banana Man wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:32 pm
Perez to consistently be 2-3 tenths off instead of 5-7 tenths off for Albon.
This is what I am thinking as well

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by j man »

I'm not expecting Perez to really compete with Verstappen, the team has a clear number 1 / number 2 driver policy and I don't think Perez is quite at Verstappen's level anyway. However he'll do a competent job and unlike Albon will actually be able to support Verstappen in the races and not make a front-running car look like a midfield car.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Rotax Max 125 »

I think we will find on fairly early on. If it goes well I think he would be mirroring something similar to Sainz when he was paired up with max in their first season. I don't think he will be as competitive as Danny was but I guess we will find out.

I'm pleased for him. He deserves it and I hope he can pick up on some more race victories

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

I've gone conservative, much as I like Perez, and predicted 0-5 for both quali and races. I'm expecting he'll fair slightly worse against Max than Ocon has against Danny Ric this year -- which is to say he'll get comprehensively beaten.

But that said, I still think he'll be a lot closer than Albon was, and less of those defeats (if any) will see him helplessly floundering in the midfield.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Remmirath »

I'm going to guess he outqualifies Max once or twice, because I expect him to be close enough he might be able to to that if Max has an off day; generally Perez's performance has been better in the races than in qualifying, so I'm expecting him to finish ahead a handful of times.

This all with the rather large assumption that they actually are given equal strategies and upgrades, of course. I expect that regardless the biggest difference is that Perez will be consistently fighting right around the same position that Max is, rather than being found near the back of the points on bad days.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Mort Canard »

I don't really know. Max had five retirements in 2020. Some were mechanical and some were driving mistakes. When he was running at the end he had one sixth place finish and the rest were podiums. I think it will be very hard for Checo to beat Max on anything like a consistent basis. I will guess that Checo will maximize his opportunities when presented with them but that Max will have the best of him over the course of the season.

If Checo beats Max over the course of the season it will upset the F1 pecking order in a major way.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

Mort Canard wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:30 am
If Checo beats Max over the course of the season it will upset the F1 pecking order in a major way.
If he actually beats Max -- which is to say, proves himself the superior driver, rather than somehow finishing ahead due to massively different reliability -- that will mean that everything we think we know about how F1 drivers measure up to one another is pure BS! :D
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

I think Max has more raw potential, but it will be interesting to see, and will obviously depend on a few things.

How will Perez adapt to the Red Bull? Which we have seen from Gasly and Albon is a tricky car to handle, while Verstappen seems to thrive with it. I think could be particularly important in the races, as we've heard that the Red Bull has a very insecure rear end and Perez's ability to keep the rear tyres has been a key strength at Racing Point, will he be able to translate that to the Red Bull?

It will also be interesting thing will be how he reacts psychologically to a situation where realistically he knows he is a stopgap solution in a team that sees Max as it's number 1, and it's future.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:13 am
It will also be interesting thing will be how he reacts psychologically to a situation where realistically he knows he is a stopgap solution in a team that sees Max as it's number 1, and it's future.
On the other hand, it's also a case where he was expressly brought in to replace an under-performing driver, so he knows the team is going to be behind him and wanting him to deliver results. That has to be good for confidence, and he'll figure if he looks good enough here he can use it as a springboard elsewhere even if Red Bull eventually moves on from him.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Lord Crc »

Horner said Albons main struggle was with the car being so pointy, something Max handles well. I haven't been paying that much attention to Perez, can he handle a pointy car well?

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

Lord Crc wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:00 am
Horner said Albons main struggle was with the car being so pointy, something Max handles well. I haven't been paying that much attention to Perez, can he handle a pointy car well?
I remember from 2013 that he liked his car much pointier than Button, but that's not saying a lot...
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by JN23 »

I’ve gone for out-qualifying in 0-5 events as I’d be surprised if it’s anything more than a handful and providing he’s able to stick it P4 on the grid then it should be job done.

Finishing ahead in the races I think could be about 25% (taking into account DNFs for Verstappen and the rare off weekend) of the time so I’ll go 6-11 but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just lower than this bracket.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Here are the qualy stats for Checo for '20:

Abu Dhabi - 19th
Bahrain / Sakhir - 5th
Turkey - 3rd
Imola - 11th
Portugal - 5th
Eiffel - 9th
Russia - 4th
Tuscany - 6th
Monza - 4th
Spa - 8th
Spain - 4th
Hungary - 4th
Styria - 17th
Austria - 6th

Overall, he's qualified well considering he' not known for his 1 lap pace. I don't know if it was only with his car or Stroll's too but Checo usually preferred setting the car up more for race trim as the midfield was so tight.

Knowing RB is the 2nd fastest car, he would qualify in top 5 on most occasions. If he gets to grip with the RB car with early simulator work & with pre season testing, it would be splendid. We shouldn't forget he has 10 years worth experience. He should adapt.

He's also known for good technical feedback & in helping get the car stronger where it needs to be. I won't be surprised if we see Checo surprise us all!
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

I don't see Checo as a particularly strong qualifier. His record this year vs Lance, given how bad Lance is over 1 lap, was not great. So how he performs is going to come down to what the gaps are.

If things are similar to this year where Red Bull are comfortably ahead of the teams behind them, I expect most races Checo will be able to do what Alex couldn't and that's qualify 4th, then take advantage of his much stronger race pace/management and be the thorn in Mercedes' side that Albon far too often was not. However, if the chasing pack close up then it would not shock me to see cars between Max and Checo after Saturday, although again, I think his superior performance on a Sunday will help him recover positions more often.

As a rule I'd sort of expect him to be 2/3 tenths behind Max on a Saturday, so what that translates to in terms of grid position (and how that affects his races) does depend on the other teams.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 am
Mort Canard wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:30 am
If Checo beats Max over the course of the season it will upset the F1 pecking order in a major way.
If he actually beats Max -- which is to say, proves himself the superior driver, rather than somehow finishing ahead due to massively different reliability -- that will mean that everything we think we know about how F1 drivers measure up to one another is pure BS! :D
It would be like getting the big bang theory totally wrong. :)
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Peter Windsor's 7 reasons as to why Perez was the right choice for RB:

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by PT03 »

He will be Red Bull's 'Bottas' ......possibly close but no cigar.
He also seems to have a fair bit of luck in getting points when some of the main contenders dropout for whatever reason.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Mort Canard »

Exediron wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 am
Mort Canard wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:30 am
If Checo beats Max over the course of the season it will upset the F1 pecking order in a major way.
If he actually beats Max -- which is to say, proves himself the superior driver, rather than somehow finishing ahead due to massively different reliability -- that will mean that everything we think we know about how F1 drivers measure up to one another is pure BS! :D
Absolutely correct!!
I am more curious to find if an old F! veteran like Checo can do something with the RBR car. A lot of folks have begun to wonder if it can be driven at a high level by anyone but Max.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

Mort Canard wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:42 am
I am more curious to find if an old F! veteran like Checo can do something with the RBR car. A lot of folks have begun to wonder if it can be driven at a high level by anyone but Max.
Yeah, personally I'm not a believer in that idea. But it will be interesting to see what Checo makes of it. He's established himself enough that he can't be dismissed with the claim that he's just not an F1-level driver, so if he can't get on top of the car there is some fundamental problem at RBR.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Looking at some of Racefans statistics here. It mentions some for every driver, but Verstappen's and Albon's are interesting. It is hard to imagine a driver doing worse than Albon in this regard though.

28 out of 756 racing laps spent ahead of Verstappen..... And it 26 of them was when Verstappen spun in Turkey. So it will have been 2 laps on merit or more likely not a single one. I think Perez will easily outshine Verstappen at times, especially as Verstappen has had 2 - 3 bad weekends this year. But Albon was so bad he was still worse.

Verstappen's statistic however is that he completed the fewest racing laps of any driver, but with his ability, that doesn't really show does it?

https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/23/20- ... rs-season/

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by UnlikeUday »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:24 am
Looking at some of Racefans statistics here. It mentions some for every driver, but Verstappen's and Albon's are interesting. It is hard to imagine a driver doing worse than Albon in this regard though.

28 out of 756 racing laps spent ahead of Verstappen..... And it 26 of them was when Verstappen spun in Turkey. So it will have been 2 laps on merit or more likely not a single one. I think Perez will easily outshine Verstappen at times, especially as Verstappen has had 2 - 3 bad weekends this year. But Albon was so bad he was still worse.

Verstappen's statistic however is that he completed the fewest racing laps of any driver, but with his ability, that doesn't really show does it?

https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/23/20- ... rs-season/
And despite this a lot of people feel Albon should've held on to the RB seat. Apart from these damning facts, so many times he crashed or spun. Maybe the RB car is hard to drive but he being a young driver has to learn to adapt as F1 isn't a kindergarten to train, especially within a team that wants to fight Mercedes for WDC & WCC.

I find it equally amusing when people believe Perez will perform at the same level of Albon. Firstly, Perez's 10 year experience can't be overlooked. He's very good at technical feedback & am sure will guide the team to build the RB car that would be more gentle on the tyres. His race-craft & defensive driving is also top notch. RB made the absolute best decision & this lineup of Perez & Verstappen is quite a potent match for Mercedes or McLaren or Ferrari.

Perez has driven cars that may be fast but were not the best when it comes to aerodynamic performance. Good aero means hitting the turns with more confidence. This will make Perez even stronger as for the 1st time he'll be driving a car that's strong aero-wise. Honda power is also on the up & reliable too. He should be making the most of this opportunity & may surprise many F1 fans.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Invade »

I wouldn't be that surprised if Perez is whitewashed in qualifying TBH, at least over sessions which are fairly representative.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:48 pm
I wouldn't be that surprised if Perez is whitewashed in qualifying TBH, at least over sessions which are fairly representative.
Yep whitewash or close to it.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Harpo »

I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Invade »

Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
What concerns me a bit is he'll have much less time than usual to get gelled with the car. 3 days of testing. Could be a slow start. That goes for the others entering new teams also.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by JN23 »

Invade wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:36 pm
Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
What concerns me a bit is he'll have much less time than usual to get gelled with the car. 3 days of testing. Could be a slow start. That goes for the others entering new teams also.
And McLaren with a new engine. Hope they've learnt their lessons from 2015...

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Option or Prime »

Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
Its inevitable that he will be driver No2 isn't it. Red Bull have always had favourites and MV is one of their biggest.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by PaDee »

Red Bull don't have Mr Right, they have Mr Right-Now. They favour the drive who is winning.

If Sergio out performs Max, I think people will be shocked how quickly the focus of the team shifts.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 pm
Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
Its inevitable that he will be driver No2 isn't it. Red Bull have always had favourites and MV is one of their biggest.
People always like to claim Red Bull have favourites.

In reality if they favour anyone it's just the guy winning. They favoured Vettel until he got beat by Ricciardo, they favoured Ricciardo until he got beat by Verstappen and if Perez performs better than Verstappen then they will favour him.

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Option or Prime »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 pm
Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
Its inevitable that he will be driver No2 isn't it. Red Bull have always had favourites and MV is one of their biggest.
People always like to claim Red Bull have favourites.

In reality if they favour anyone it's just the guy winning. They favoured Vettel until he got beat by Ricciardo, they favoured Ricciardo until he got beat by Verstappen and if Perez performs better than Verstappen then they will favour him.
Fair enough but isn't there inbuilt favouritism in that their car is set up to suit MV's style of driving, so Perez is at a disadvantage until that balance is redressed.
I also get the feeling that MV might not react well to being beaten by Perez, if it were to happen. Does that mean that they would let MV flounce off if he demands priority?

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:26 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 pm
Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
Its inevitable that he will be driver No2 isn't it. Red Bull have always had favourites and MV is one of their biggest.
People always like to claim Red Bull have favourites.

In reality if they favour anyone it's just the guy winning. They favoured Vettel until he got beat by Ricciardo, they favoured Ricciardo until he got beat by Verstappen and if Perez performs better than Verstappen then they will favour him.
Fair enough but isn't there inbuilt favouritism in that their car is set up to suit MV's style of driving, so Perez is at a disadvantage until that balance is redressed.
I also get the feeling that MV might not react well to being beaten by Perez, if it were to happen. Does that mean that they would let MV flounce off if he demands priority?
I'm never convinced by the car being designed around a certain driver thing. Newey has said he has never taken a drivers driving style into consideration and watching Max drive this season I'm pretty sure whatever he wants the car to be doing it's not doing it.

Obviously the incumbent driver has an advantage in that the team knows how to set the car up for his preferences but why will that be any different at Red Bull to anywhere else? We often see drivers do better in their second season in a team for that reason.

If Max is beaten by Perez then why would him flouncing off be a major concern to Red Bull? They'd already have a better driver. Why on earth would you hobble the stronger driver in order to keep the weaker one happy at any cost?

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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:37 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:26 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 pm
Harpo wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:15 pm
I don't know... Whatever is noted on his contract, I just hope he will not be considered as the "second" driver, which is a curse in any team and quite a punishment at RBR.
That said, if he doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and if RBR listen to him and treat his side of the garage as Verstappen's, my opinion is that we may be surprised.
Its inevitable that he will be driver No2 isn't it. Red Bull have always had favourites and MV is one of their biggest.
People always like to claim Red Bull have favourites.

In reality if they favour anyone it's just the guy winning. They favoured Vettel until he got beat by Ricciardo, they favoured Ricciardo until he got beat by Verstappen and if Perez performs better than Verstappen then they will favour him.
Fair enough but isn't there inbuilt favouritism in that their car is set up to suit MV's style of driving, so Perez is at a disadvantage until that balance is redressed.
I also get the feeling that MV might not react well to being beaten by Perez, if it were to happen. Does that mean that they would let MV flounce off if he demands priority?
I'm never convinced by the car being designed around a certain driver thing. Newey has said he has never taken a drivers driving style into consideration and watching Max drive this season I'm pretty sure whatever he wants the car to be doing it's not doing it.

Obviously the incumbent driver has an advantage in that the team knows how to set the car up for his preferences but why will that be any different at Red Bull to anywhere else? We often see drivers do better in their second season in a team for that reason.

If Max is beaten by Perez then why would him flouncing off be a major concern to Red Bull? They'd already have a better driver. Why on earth would you hobble the stronger driver in order to keep the weaker one happy at any cost?
I thought the new front suspension was designed around Max's need for a stronger front end, similarly Mercedes' new rear suspension was designed around Hamilton's need for the car to pivot more quickly in slow corners.

Now I don't know how successful Red Bull's new suspension was but certainly Mercedes seemed to have success with theirs, now put a strong minded teammate in the other car who likes rear stability, like say Button, then certain mods maybe don't get approved.

Hamilton said that when he was at McLaren they never listened to his ideas but at Mercedes the opposite is true.
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Exediron
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:37 pm
Option or Prime wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:26 pm
Fair enough but isn't there inbuilt favouritism in that their car is set up to suit MV's style of driving, so Perez is at a disadvantage until that balance is redressed.
I also get the feeling that MV might not react well to being beaten by Perez, if it were to happen. Does that mean that they would let MV flounce off if he demands priority?
I'm never convinced by the car being designed around a certain driver thing. Newey has said he has never taken a drivers driving style into consideration and watching Max drive this season I'm pretty sure whatever he wants the car to be doing it's not doing it.
I'm in agreement about this. The primary design philosophy of the car is simply going to be based around what they feel they can make it go quickest with. Now, that certainly can help one driver or another, if only one of them is able to drive the car to its full advantage -- think Vettel vs. Webber at Red Bull, or Alonso vs. Fisi at Renault -- but on that meta level, I don't believe the car is designed with a certain driver in mind.

I think where this comes more into play is that upgrades have to be designed with someone's feedback in mind, and that will be the lead driver. If Max feels the front end is weak, the upgrades will be aimed at addressing that -- even if the front end is already as strong as Perez would like it to be.

Although at a top team, I think there is also room for the two cars to diverge fairly significantly. We've heard in the past of new wings or other aero upgrades that one driver likes but the other doesn't, and the two cars end up being different (at least for one weekend).
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Re: How will Perez perform against Max?

Post by SlipstreamF1 »

Max is kind of a forceful driver while Perez is technical. Albon was smooth with the wheel, but erratic with the pedals and his car never seemed to have any speed on the straights unlike Max's. Probably a different setup of course. I think Perez's setup will be similar to Max's.

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