Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

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Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez

Might upset Verstappen
3
8%
Don't want another Multi 21
0
No votes
Means admitting junior driver program has "failed"
9
24%
2021 already written off so why bother
1
3%
Don't know what to do with Albon
0
No votes
Thai factor
8
22%
Waiting for another driver?
1
3%
They've already signed the Hulk
0
No votes
They're going to jump Tsunoda straight in
0
No votes
Other - please state
3
8%
They are going to, but know they can leave it to last minute
12
32%
 
Total votes: 37

stevey
Posts: 1616
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by stevey »

For me 3 reasons,
1. Admitting the junior driver programmer has failed is a huge thing for them, but I do think doing this would free them up for options now and in the future. Especially if it comes to a close battle for the WCC where you need proven 1 and 2 drivers to be close.
2. Is the Thai investment
3. Can they really guarantee any of the other drivers available can handle the twitchy Red Bull. When it comes to driving styles and compensating for handling deficiencies their are only a few drivers that seem to excel at this. Max, Lewis, Fernando, Leclerc seems to be also up there. Perez didn't seem to have an outstanding season with Mclaren up against Button? So it could result in a swap with potential political damage which ends up with the same result.

User avatar
bourbon19
Posts: 2229
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by bourbon19 »

A.J. wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:19 pm

Max is perfect PR for the RedBull brand. Young, brash, aggressive, shaking things up - PR is not just about being a corporate spokesman, it's about how well he relates to people and the company in terms of the brand image. And Max is a perfect fit for RedBull (but not so much for, say, Mercedes).

Ricciardo is more PR savvy than Verstappen, but he was also perfectly aligned with the RedBull brand - young, brash, FUN.
I have to agree. RB has all types in its ranks of athletes, and quite a number of them are like Max - riding the edge of decorum. But all - or nearly all - of those are at the top of their game. Max fits right in. Every sport needs a "Max" to keep itself from being staid and dry.

I don't have a problem with Perez giving it a go as Max's teammate, but I don't really think he'd be a great fit.

KingVoid
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by KingVoid »

Invade wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:04 am
bourbon19 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:16 am
I am really not on the Perez to RB bandwagon. He's a good steady driver and obviously has some phenomenal races, but replacing Albon with him I think would just see him take on a Bottas or Webber role to Verstappen. I am liking Verstappen more and more - not because he is on my team of choice, but because next to Sebastian (when he has wheels), I think he is very entertaining to watch.

I like the idea of RB putting its guns behind Max and I think Albon is okay with that as he improves. I might be wrong, but I think Perez would have issues being cast in that role.
How about having a driver who can stay within the pit window of the Mercs.
Building a car that can outqualify Mercedes more than once per season is probably a bigger priority.

I think people will be shocked at how little difference replacing Albon with Perez will actually make. Hamilton and Mercedes will continue to dominate everything regardless. The fact that Perez might occasionally be in their pit window is not going to change anything.

KingVoid
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by KingVoid »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm
Harpo wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:19 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:47 pm
All of the options are true to an extent but people are overlooking the fact that Red Bull is 51% owned by a Thai.

I assume Albon is there to help advertise and support the brand domestically in Thailand.
Ok for the 51% of the shares (and the recipe of the vomiting product) being Thai. But I guess the Mexican and Mexican American market (and the rest of central America) is much more interesting.

Contrary to what Dolomite think, I would bet that the main reason for Red Bull not to sign Perez would be to protect Verstappen. I'm not sure Perez would accept to be a second driver, nor that Verstappen beating Perez is a certainty (supposing they get equal treatment, which is another question).

This makes no sense to me. Red Bull desperately tried to keep Ricciardo before he went to Renault. If they were all about protecting Vertsappen then that makes no sense. Red Bull have shown themselves the only major team to not be afraid of putting two top drivers together. And if Perez does beat him then how does Red Bull lose?

I also doubt that Verstappen would worry about facing Perez especially in his own team. He will think he would beat him and beat him easily and there is much more capital in that for him than beating up Albon for another year. It would also help him out a lot if he had a team mate 10 seconds behind rather than 30. He could then be used to interfere with Merc.

I also don't see why you think Perez accepting being the 2nd driver? Is he really going to sit out a season rather than driving for Red Bull if they tell him he's going to the be the number 2?
Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.

User avatar
Invade
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Invade »

KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:27 am
Invade wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:04 am
bourbon19 wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:16 am
I am really not on the Perez to RB bandwagon. He's a good steady driver and obviously has some phenomenal races, but replacing Albon with him I think would just see him take on a Bottas or Webber role to Verstappen. I am liking Verstappen more and more - not because he is on my team of choice, but because next to Sebastian (when he has wheels), I think he is very entertaining to watch.

I like the idea of RB putting its guns behind Max and I think Albon is okay with that as he improves. I might be wrong, but I think Perez would have issues being cast in that role.
How about having a driver who can stay within the pit window of the Mercs.
Building a car that can outqualify Mercedes more than once per season is probably a bigger priority.

I think people will be shocked at how little difference replacing Albon with Perez will actually make. Hamilton and Mercedes will continue to dominate everything regardless. The fact that Perez might occasionally be in their pit window is not going to change anything.
Pretty sure it would be far more often than 'occasionally'. But also pretty sure that having a better driver in there is going to help Max become even stronger and also push car development forward. I mean, it's pretty obvious to say that building a better car is the bigger priority, but signing Perez isn't going to get in the way of this very obvious task, which we all know Red Bull need to be continuining to sink their time into.

Paolo_Lasardi
Posts: 2852
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm
Harpo wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:19 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:47 pm
All of the options are true to an extent but people are overlooking the fact that Red Bull is 51% owned by a Thai.

I assume Albon is there to help advertise and support the brand domestically in Thailand.
Ok for the 51% of the shares (and the recipe of the vomiting product) being Thai. But I guess the Mexican and Mexican American market (and the rest of central America) is much more interesting.

Contrary to what Dolomite think, I would bet that the main reason for Red Bull not to sign Perez would be to protect Verstappen. I'm not sure Perez would accept to be a second driver, nor that Verstappen beating Perez is a certainty (supposing they get equal treatment, which is another question).

This makes no sense to me. Red Bull desperately tried to keep Ricciardo before he went to Renault. If they were all about protecting Vertsappen then that makes no sense. Red Bull have shown themselves the only major team to not be afraid of putting two top drivers together. And if Perez does beat him then how does Red Bull lose?

I also doubt that Verstappen would worry about facing Perez especially in his own team. He will think he would beat him and beat him easily and there is much more capital in that for him than beating up Albon for another year. It would also help him out a lot if he had a team mate 10 seconds behind rather than 30. He could then be used to interfere with Merc.

I also don't see why you think Perez accepting being the 2nd driver? Is he really going to sit out a season rather than driving for Red Bull if they tell him he's going to the be the number 2?
Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?

KingVoid
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by KingVoid »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm
Harpo wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:19 pm


Ok for the 51% of the shares (and the recipe of the vomiting product) being Thai. But I guess the Mexican and Mexican American market (and the rest of central America) is much more interesting.

Contrary to what Dolomite think, I would bet that the main reason for Red Bull not to sign Perez would be to protect Verstappen. I'm not sure Perez would accept to be a second driver, nor that Verstappen beating Perez is a certainty (supposing they get equal treatment, which is another question).

This makes no sense to me. Red Bull desperately tried to keep Ricciardo before he went to Renault. If they were all about protecting Vertsappen then that makes no sense. Red Bull have shown themselves the only major team to not be afraid of putting two top drivers together. And if Perez does beat him then how does Red Bull lose?

I also doubt that Verstappen would worry about facing Perez especially in his own team. He will think he would beat him and beat him easily and there is much more capital in that for him than beating up Albon for another year. It would also help him out a lot if he had a team mate 10 seconds behind rather than 30. He could then be used to interfere with Merc.

I also don't see why you think Perez accepting being the 2nd driver? Is he really going to sit out a season rather than driving for Red Bull if they tell him he's going to the be the number 2?
Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.

BMWSauber84
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by BMWSauber84 »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm



This makes no sense to me. Red Bull desperately tried to keep Ricciardo before he went to Renault. If they were all about protecting Vertsappen then that makes no sense. Red Bull have shown themselves the only major team to not be afraid of putting two top drivers together. And if Perez does beat him then how does Red Bull lose?

I also doubt that Verstappen would worry about facing Perez especially in his own team. He will think he would beat him and beat him easily and there is much more capital in that for him than beating up Albon for another year. It would also help him out a lot if he had a team mate 10 seconds behind rather than 30. He could then be used to interfere with Merc.

I also don't see why you think Perez accepting being the 2nd driver? Is he really going to sit out a season rather than driving for Red Bull if they tell him he's going to the be the number 2?
Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Indeed. Martin Whitmarsh perhaps unfairly justified getting rid of Perez partially on the basis that he wasn't outqualifying Button by the kind of margins that Hamilton had the previous season. Ok I don't think one lap pace has ever been a particularly strong suit of Perez's, but I think McLaren jettisoned him far too soon..

If Red Bull is a clear step ahead of the third best team next year, then I suspect Perez will be able to qualify fourth most of the time.

User avatar
tootsie323
Posts: 3365
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by tootsie323 »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:33 am
Indeed. Martin Whitmarsh perhaps unfairly justified getting rid of Perez partially on the basis that he wasn't outqualifying Button by the kind of margins that Hamilton had the previous season. Ok I don't think one lap pace has ever been a particularly strong suit of Perez's, but I think McLaren jettisoned him far too soon..

If Red Bull is a clear step ahead of the third best team next year, then I suspect Perez will be able to qualify fourth most of the time.
Looking back, it probably wasn't such a bad thing that Perez found himself having to find himself another seat after 2013. The Macca wasn't exactly a front-runner going forward from there.
Where I'm going, I don't need roads

pokerman
Posts: 36630
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by pokerman »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:33 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm


Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Indeed. Martin Whitmarsh perhaps unfairly justified getting rid of Perez partially on the basis that he wasn't outqualifying Button by the kind of margins that Hamilton had the previous season. Ok I don't think one lap pace has ever been a particularly strong suit of Perez's, but I think McLaren jettisoned him far too soon..

If Red Bull is a clear step ahead of the third best team next year, then I suspect Perez will be able to qualify fourth most of the time.
Yeah It's clear they were looking for another Hamilton, someone good enough to beat Button, they finally ended up with Alonso.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)


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2014: Champion

Paolo_Lasardi
Posts: 2852
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm



This makes no sense to me. Red Bull desperately tried to keep Ricciardo before he went to Renault. If they were all about protecting Vertsappen then that makes no sense. Red Bull have shown themselves the only major team to not be afraid of putting two top drivers together. And if Perez does beat him then how does Red Bull lose?

I also doubt that Verstappen would worry about facing Perez especially in his own team. He will think he would beat him and beat him easily and there is much more capital in that for him than beating up Albon for another year. It would also help him out a lot if he had a team mate 10 seconds behind rather than 30. He could then be used to interfere with Merc.

I also don't see why you think Perez accepting being the 2nd driver? Is he really going to sit out a season rather than driving for Red Bull if they tell him he's going to the be the number 2?
Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Grandprixrankings and bleachers show Button ahead 10 : 9. Maybe, they have a mistake in their statistic?

Paolo_Lasardi
Posts: 2852
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:33 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm


Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Indeed. Martin Whitmarsh perhaps unfairly justified getting rid of Perez partially on the basis that he wasn't outqualifying Button by the kind of margins that Hamilton had the previous season. Ok I don't think one lap pace has ever been a particularly strong suit of Perez's, but I think McLaren jettisoned him far too soon..

If Red Bull is a clear step ahead of the third best team next year, then I suspect Perez will be able to qualify fourth most of the time.
Perez' working attitude was viewed critical at this time ( not only by McLaren). That has changed in the meantime.

pokerman
Posts: 36630
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by pokerman »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:03 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm


Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Grandprixrankings and bleachers show Button ahead 10 : 9. Maybe, they have a mistake in their statistic?
For what it's worth I had it at Perez 7-6 Button but with Button having a better average of 0.06s.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 96 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 166 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

Siao7
Posts: 9048
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Siao7 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:03 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:51 pm


Fully agree. Max is not afraid of Perez, however good Perez may be. He's probably done the cross comparisons himself to make sure.

And no chance Perez will sit out next season over number 2 at the second best team. It'll be the most competitive position he'll ever have been in in his F1 career.
Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Grandprixrankings and bleachers show Button ahead 10 : 9. Maybe, they have a mistake in their statistic?
Either way it was marginal and not a reason to boot him frankly

User avatar
DOLOMITE
Posts: 1880
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by DOLOMITE »

Siao7 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:00 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:03 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am
KingVoid wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:31 am

Funny you’d mention cross comparisons actually. The main reason why I want Perez at Red Bull is not because it will change anything (Mercedes will retain their dominance), it’s because it will give me a more accurate picture between Hamilton and Verstappen

Hamilton-Button-Perez-Verstappen

Hamilton outqualified Button 44-14 and by a median margin of 0.274%
Perez outqualified Button 10-9 and by a median margin of 0.015%
Hamilton is therefore 0.259% quicker than Perez

Let’s see how Verstappen compares.
Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Grandprixrankings and bleachers show Button ahead 10 : 9. Maybe, they have a mistake in their statistic?
Either way it was marginal and not a reason to boot him frankly
You might find the anomaly is down to whether they use the actual qualifying position, whether they count applied grid-penalties or even use the actual starting position. So a a driver could qualify 5th, have a 5 place penalty so have a 10t place start position, but then start from pit lane or something. Also they can gain through others penalties i.e qualify 5th but the driver in 4th as a penalty so they start 4th etc.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

Siao7
Posts: 9048
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Siao7 »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am
Siao7 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:00 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:03 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:43 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am


Didn't Button win the qualifying duel against Perez?
Nope, Perez won it

Button was clearly quicker in the first half of the season, and won the qualifying duel 7-3 before the summer break. After the summer break, Perez held a clear upper hand and won the qualifying duel 7-2

Overall 10-9 for Perez

The median difference was only 0.015% which is almost nothing anyway.
Grandprixrankings and bleachers show Button ahead 10 : 9. Maybe, they have a mistake in their statistic?
Either way it was marginal and not a reason to boot him frankly
You might find the anomaly is down to whether they use the actual qualifying position, whether they count applied grid-penalties or even use the actual starting position. So a a driver could qualify 5th, have a 5 place penalty so have a 10t place start position, but then start from pit lane or something. Also they can gain through others penalties i.e qualify 5th but the driver in 4th as a penalty so they start 4th etc.
True. If they got a penalty on merit, then their fault. If they had to change an engine part or something, then you can't hold that against them. I can't remember what happened between them that year, but this would be my initial thoughts

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by DOLOMITE »

I get 10-9 Button

(Button/Perez qual)

Australia : Button (10/15)
Malaysia : Button (7/9)
China : Button (8/12)
Bahrain : Button (10/12)
Spain : Perez (14/8)
Monaco: Perez (9/7)
Canada : Perez (14/12)
United Kingdom : Button (10/13)
Germany: Button (9/13)
Hungary : Perez (13/9)
Belgium : Button (6/13)
Italy : Perez (9/8)
Singapore : Button (8/14)
South Korea: Perez (11/10)
Japan : Button (10/11)
India : Perez (10/9)
United Arab Emirates : Perez (12/8)
United States of America : Perez (15/7)
Brazil : Button (14/19)

Av 10/5 Button, Perez 11 so really not much in it but Button by how own admission was never a Saturday man.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jos Verstappen when was asked about the possible team-mate for Max in '21, he said I've got no clue.He of course has heard about the strong rumours of Checo joining RB. To which he says "Let's wait and see where he stands in relation to Max and Albon next year. I don't know how good Perez is.”

That's his arrogance or ignorance? We all know how Jos & Max were trying to persuade RB to sign Hulk instead.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by mikeyg123 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:37 am
Jos Verstappen when was asked about the possible team-mate for Max in '21, he said I've got no clue.He of course has heard about the strong rumours of Checo joining RB. To which he says "Let's wait and see where he stands in relation to Max and Albon next year. I don't know how good Perez is.”

That's his arrogance or ignorance? We all know how Jos & Max were trying to persuade RB to sign Hulk instead.

https://www.ibtimes.com/f1-news-max-ver ... on-3102329
No we don't lol.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:37 am
Jos Verstappen when was asked about the possible team-mate for Max in '21, he said I've got no clue.He of course has heard about the strong rumours of Checo joining RB. To which he says "Let's wait and see where he stands in relation to Max and Albon next year. I don't know how good Perez is.”

That's his arrogance or ignorance? We all know how Jos & Max were trying to persuade RB to sign Hulk instead.

https://www.ibtimes.com/f1-news-max-ver ... on-3102329
That might fit the rumour that the Verstappen's were not in particular keen on Perez or at least Jos.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Biffa »

Seeing some news articles this morning claiming that Perez is to be announced on a 1 year deal at RB before end of week. (Unsubstantiated of course ;-)

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by pokerman »

Biffa wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:25 pm
Seeing some news articles this morning claiming that Perez is to be announced on a 1 year deal at RB before end of week. (Unsubstantiated of course ;-)
Tsunoda's been announced at AlphaTauri today so hopefully we will hear soon.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:30 pm
Biffa wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:25 pm
Seeing some news articles this morning claiming that Perez is to be announced on a 1 year deal at RB before end of week. (Unsubstantiated of course ;-)
Tsunoda's been announced at AlphaTauri today so hopefully we will hear soon.
Tsunoda's been announced, and Albon hasn't. That to me strongly implies that it won't be Albon.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

They wont sign him for 2 reasons… First they want to continue to project to the world that their YDP is one of, if not the absolute best in the world and prefer to field Albon one more season at least, and the other reason is because they are perhaps afraid that Checo might match and even beat Max in the same car. Checo is a very highly regarded driver, but also highly underrated, and the powers that be are quite aware of that.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by overgeared »

They are waiting on Hamilton to sign whoever.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by overgeared »

Until the possibility of getting Hamilton is gone they will hold off.
Last edited by overgeared on Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by oz_karter »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 pm
They wont sign him for 2 reasons… First they want to continue to project to the world that their YDP is one of, if not the absolute best in the world and prefer to field Albon one more season at least, and the other reason is because they are perhaps afraid that Checo might match and even beat Max in the same car. Checo is a very highly regarded driver, but also highly underrated, and the powers that be are quite aware of that.
I will be surprised if they retain Albon. He has had flashes of form, but they need a consistent number 2. He just hasn't delivered that. One solid 4th place won't be enough.

I expect them to announce Perez, but also am not discounting Hulkenberg.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by SlipstreamF1 »

They're probably working out the sponsorship deals with Telmex, who may even become the new title sponsor! I mean it is really odd how Red Bull came out and said they're not looking for a new title sponsor. But I'm hoping they're trying to get Ocon from Renault instead. Ocon famously lost his seat to Perez for money after beating him and then Perez lost his to someone with even more money (Stroll).

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by mikeyg123 »

SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:01 am
They're probably working out the sponsorship deals with Telmex, who may even become the new title sponsor! I mean it is really odd how Red Bull came out and said they're not looking for a new title sponsor. But I'm hoping they're trying to get Ocon from Renault instead. Ocon famously lost his seat to Perez for money after beating him and then Perez lost his to someone with even more money (Stroll).
You've been watching to much Drive to Survive. Ocon never beat Perez.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:07 am
SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:01 am
They're probably working out the sponsorship deals with Telmex, who may even become the new title sponsor! I mean it is really odd how Red Bull came out and said they're not looking for a new title sponsor. But I'm hoping they're trying to get Ocon from Renault instead. Ocon famously lost his seat to Perez for money after beating him and then Perez lost his to someone with even more money (Stroll).
You've been watching to much Drive to Survive. Ocon never beat Perez.
:thumbup:

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:07 am
SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:01 am
They're probably working out the sponsorship deals with Telmex, who may even become the new title sponsor! I mean it is really odd how Red Bull came out and said they're not looking for a new title sponsor. But I'm hoping they're trying to get Ocon from Renault instead. Ocon famously lost his seat to Perez for money after beating him and then Perez lost his to someone with even more money (Stroll).
You've been watching to much Drive to Survive. Ocon never beat Perez.
No, but he did match Perez, and considering he had considerably less experience that was still pretty impressive.
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Invade »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 pm
They wont sign him for 2 reasons… First they want to continue to project to the world that their YDP is one of, if not the absolute best in the world and prefer to field Albon one more season at least, and the other reason is because they are perhaps afraid that Checo might match and even beat Max in the same car. Checo is a very highly regarded driver, but also highly underrated, and the powers that be are quite aware of that.
Ah well that is unfortunate.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:58 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:07 am
SlipstreamF1 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:01 am
They're probably working out the sponsorship deals with Telmex, who may even become the new title sponsor! I mean it is really odd how Red Bull came out and said they're not looking for a new title sponsor. But I'm hoping they're trying to get Ocon from Renault instead. Ocon famously lost his seat to Perez for money after beating him and then Perez lost his to someone with even more money (Stroll).
You've been watching to much Drive to Survive. Ocon never beat Perez.
No, but he did match Perez, and considering he had considerably less experience that was still pretty impressive.
He was as good as Perez I agree. I championed hard for him to get the 2020 Merc seat.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by UnlikeUday »

They just did. Welcome Checo to RB!

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by DOLOMITE »

woohoo!
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Banana Man »

A correct decision has been made.
I remember when this website was all fields.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by JN23 »

Invade wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:32 am
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:46 pm
They wont sign him for 2 reasons… First they want to continue to project to the world that their YDP is one of, if not the absolute best in the world and prefer to field Albon one more season at least, and the other reason is because they are perhaps afraid that Checo might match and even beat Max in the same car. Checo is a very highly regarded driver, but also highly underrated, and the powers that be are quite aware of that.
Ah well that is unfortunate.
:lol:

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by JN23 »

Delighted for Perez, a much deserved chance in a team towards the front of the grid. I hope he can make the most of it.

I feel sorry for Albon, I think he was dealt a bit of a rough hand in hindsight but no complaints about him being dropped. I hope he gets another shot in F1 somewhere but wouldn't be surprised if that's all. Also rumours that he only found out he was being dropped this afternoon, ouch.

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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by tootsie323 »

That's the thread title null and void then..!
Happy for Checo. A little sorry for Albon; feel that he should have had another stab at AT (though Tsunoda looks just too good to pass up).
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Re: Why haven't Red Bull signed Perez?

Post by Invade »

As that very old and classic saying goes: Awwwww yisss.

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