How will Russell perform against Bottas?

[mikeyg123]

I think being weaker on race day than quali is almost inevitable for any driver that tends to qualify regularly out of position. I dare say Leclerc will go backwards today for instance. You've listed a lot of interesting stat's there but really they say Russell almost always beats Latifi. The problem is we have no benchmark for Latifi. Personally I don't think he's great but who knows.

I think these are questions we will get answered at least as I suspect we will see Russell in the Merc seat for 2022.

[schumilegend]

Bottas clearly an average driver. Tries to exude a calm confidence but obviously deeply rattled...What's the surprise..I think Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Sainz/Norris/Russel/Gasly beat Bottas comfortably on pace.. Vettel if gets his mojo back will as well..
I would pretty tiddled at Totto if i were George..If he were a risk taker like Ron Dennis it would have be an easy decision put George in with Hamilton this year

Verstappen I certainly think would beat Bottas no problem, but I think would be slightly closer than him vs Hamilton. Verstappen I think is the only one who would do so extremely comfortably.

Stopped reading your post after this part..You make it sound like Bottas is a great promising talent..Bottas is what you would consider to be as a Gasly of this generation...
Let it sink in for a min..Bottas was almost beaten by a guy with 4 hr preparation with this car.. Next weekend i expect George to comfortably outpace him

You are confirming too much too soon based on a lap Bottas himself wasn't impressed with. It does show that Russell is very capable over one lap, but it doesn't show consistency or race pace in the long term.

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

[pokerman]

Agreed to an extent with Hogweed above. Let's not talk down Bottas too much. I think over a season he'd be beaten by Hamilton, Ricciardo, Leclerc and Verstappen but with at least be 50/50 with everyone else. I think the next best would be Perez who I think Bottas would have a good chance against.

It's almost inevitable that Russell will struggle for race pace more than one lap having been called in last minute. I hope that won't be used as further evidence to the assertion (that I believe to be false) that he's a great driver on a saturday but not on sunday.

I'm already completating my end of season top 10 and you've just listed my top 6.

[pokerman]

Bottas clearly an average driver. Tries to exude a calm confidence but obviously deeply rattled...What's the surprise..I think Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Sainz/Norris/Russel/Gasly beat Bottas comfortably on pace.. Vettel if gets his mojo back will as well..
I would pretty tiddled at Totto if i were George..If he were a risk taker like Ron Dennis it would have be an easy decision put George in with Hamilton this year

Verstappen I certainly think would beat Bottas no problem, but I think would be slightly closer than him vs Hamilton. Verstappen I think is the only one who would do so extremely comfortably.

Stopped reading your post after this part..You make it sound like Bottas is a great promising talent..Bottas is what you would consider to be as a Gasly of this generation...
Let it sink in for a min..Bottas was almost beaten by a guy with 4 hr preparation with this car.. Next weekend i expect George to comfortably outpace him

You are confirming too much too soon based on a lap Bottas himself wasn't impressed with. It does show that Russell is very capable over one lap, but it doesn't show consistency or race pace in the long term.

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

You want to give caveats for Russell but none for Bottas, it's so obvious that Bottas messed up his final lap but based on that one lap you can totally rubbish Bottas' standing in the sport.

[schumilegend]

Verstappen I certainly think would beat Bottas no problem, but I think would be slightly closer than him vs Hamilton. Verstappen I think is the only one who would do so extremely comfortably.

Stopped reading your post after this part..You make it sound like Bottas is a great promising talent..Bottas is what you would consider to be as a Gasly of this generation...
Let it sink in for a min..Bottas was almost beaten by a guy with 4 hr preparation with this car.. Next weekend i expect George to comfortably outpace him

You are confirming too much too soon based on a lap Bottas himself wasn't impressed with. It does show that Russell is very capable over one lap, but it doesn't show consistency or race pace in the long term.

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

You want to give caveats for Russell but none for Bottas, it's so obvious that Bottas messed up his final lap but based on that one lap you can totally rubbish Bottas' standing in the sport.

Cmmon man..Don't give me this BS..Here's Bottas record against a washed up Masa during their time together
Head to Head Finishes:
Bottas - 26
Massa - 23

Head to Head Qualifying:
Bottas - 39
Massa - 16

Points
Bottas - 407
Massa - 308

This was Massa after his accident, after being demolished by Alonso...Clearly it's obvious Bottas isn't anything special..

[pokerman]

Stopped reading your post after this part..You make it sound like Bottas is a great promising talent..Bottas is what you would consider to be as a Gasly of this generation...
Let it sink in for a min..Bottas was almost beaten by a guy with 4 hr preparation with this car.. Next weekend i expect George to comfortably outpace him

You are confirming too much too soon based on a lap Bottas himself wasn't impressed with. It does show that Russell is very capable over one lap, but it doesn't show consistency or race pace in the long term.

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

You want to give caveats for Russell but none for Bottas, it's so obvious that Bottas messed up his final lap but based on that one lap you can totally rubbish Bottas' standing in the sport.

Cmmon man..Don't give me this BS..Here's Bottas record against a washed up Masa during their time together
Head to Head Finishes:
Bottas - 26
Massa - 23

Head to Head Qualifying:
Bottas - 39
Massa - 16

Points
Bottas - 407
Massa - 308

This was Massa after his accident, after being demolished by Alonso...Clearly it's obvious Bottas isn't anything special..

Washed up against Bottas but his beating by Alonso was used to further cement Alonso's legacy, also not let's forget that Bottas had only 1 season in F1 before coming up against Massa and his qualifying record against Massa was only 1 tenth shy of Alonso's record.

I also have to wonder what happened to Kimi during this period, did he also suffer a head injury to explain his Ferrari years against both Alonso and Vettel.

[schumilegend]

You are confirming too much too soon based on a lap Bottas himself wasn't impressed with. It does show that Russell is very capable over one lap, but it doesn't show consistency or race pace in the long term.

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

You want to give caveats for Russell but none for Bottas, it's so obvious that Bottas messed up his final lap but based on that one lap you can totally rubbish Bottas' standing in the sport.

Cmmon man..Don't give me this BS..Here's Bottas record against a washed up Masa during their time together
Head to Head Finishes:
Bottas - 26
Massa - 23

Head to Head Qualifying:
Bottas - 39
Massa - 16

Points
Bottas - 407
Massa - 308

This was Massa after his accident, after being demolished by Alonso...Clearly it's obvious Bottas isn't anything special..

Washed up against Bottas but his beating by Alonso was used to further cement Alonso's legacy, also not let's forget that Bottas had only 1 season in F1 before coming up against Massa and his qualifying record against Massa was only 1 tenth shy of Alonso's record.

I also have to wonder what happened to Kimi during this period, did he also suffer a head injury to explain his Ferrari years against both Alonso and Vettel.

Lol you're all over the place...What's your point? That Bottas was the next big young gun when he came on scene? I see a washed up Massa matching him half the times over races!! Sorry your arguments are just weak

[Asphalt_World]

He's better off the grid!!!!!


I jest.

[schumilegend]

Wow, this is embarrassing for Bottas and Hamilton! For the last placed guy to jump into this car with 4 hr preparation and almost take pole and dominating the race!!

[Black_Flag_11]

Russell deserves a Mercedes seat next year, and we deserve to see it.

[Asphalt_World]

Not bad for a Saturday driver!

[Harpo]

Perez should win it.. He will.

I don't want to look arrogant, but...

[Bacus]

I should've had this one 'Very close in qualifying, Russell ahead in the race'.
Feel so sorry for Russell.

[TheGiantHogweed]

Are you serious? What do you think Bottas was gonna say? I did the lap of my life? It's embarrassing for him!!There are quite a few times when Hamilton has finished a tick slower than Bottas..Why couldn't this be one of those instances? I don't expect Russel to beat Bottas in the race..Much harder to race hard for 87 laps with a car you have had 4 hrs to drive... Again i go back to my point...Hamilton has looked better than he really is because Bottas is truly an average driver for someone to take up the most coveted seat in F1...Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo/Russel will truly demolish him... Norris/Sainz and Perez will also beat him over a season

You want to give caveats for Russell but none for Bottas, it's so obvious that Bottas messed up his final lap but based on that one lap you can totally rubbish Bottas' standing in the sport.

Cmmon man..Don't give me this BS..Here's Bottas record against a washed up Masa during their time together
Head to Head Finishes:
Bottas - 26
Massa - 23

Head to Head Qualifying:
Bottas - 39
Massa - 16

Points
Bottas - 407
Massa - 308

This was Massa after his accident, after being demolished by Alonso...Clearly it's obvious Bottas isn't anything special..

Washed up against Bottas but his beating by Alonso was used to further cement Alonso's legacy, also not let's forget that Bottas had only 1 season in F1 before coming up against Massa and his qualifying record against Massa was only 1 tenth shy of Alonso's record.

I also have to wonder what happened to Kimi during this period, did he also suffer a head injury to explain his Ferrari years against both Alonso and Vettel.

Lol you're all over the place...What's your point? That Bottas was the next big young gun when he came on scene? I see a washed up Massa matching him half the times over races!! Sorry your arguments are just weak

Similar to when you didn't want to read my post, some of yours probably are not worth reading. You seem to simply hate Bottas and appear to not accept that there are plenty of positives about him being a number 2 driver. Massa was closer to Bottas than the points made it look, but Massa didn't match him "half the time".

You obviously really rate russell, and also seem a bit too critical of Hamilton. Russell was no doubt really impressive this weekend, and did will have very likely beaten Bottas on merit. I say very likely as Bottas was catching and brundle pointed out his pace advantage before the safety car. There was a slim but unlikely chance that Bottas could have got past, so that is why I don't say it was a certain lost win. But that changes nothing about how impressive Russell was. What I don't get with you is that you imply that you think this one race changes the entire past and the future. Bottas's race pace at the end was compromised by being put on 25 lap old tyres, so given the absolute mess up, breaks on fire and all sorts at Mercedes, I wouldn't say Bottas losing several places makes him an "CLOWN" like you said...

[F1Tyrant]

I got it right in my prediction of Bottas-Bottas, but there can be no doubt that Russell was far better than Bottas in the race.

I doubt we will see Valterri in a silver car in 2022.

[mikeyg123]

If Merc and Hamilton have any balls at all then Russell will be in the seat in 2022.

[TheGiantHogweed]

I got it right in my prediction of Bottas-Bottas, but there can be no doubt that Russell was far better than Bottas in the race.

I doubt we will see Valterri in a silver car in 2022.

Not sure Russell will be either if Hamilton is still there and they keep up the current paintwork.

[Mort Canard]

I will be very excited to see George and Lewis as team mates in 2022. George had the measure of Valtteri pretty much all afternoon.

[Schumacher forever#1]

If Merc and Hamilton have any balls at all then Russell will be in the seat in 2022.

More like 2021 no?

[Invade]

The irony of what happened to George today is how overflowing with praise he was about Mercedes operationally during the press conferences (I think both general and post qualy).

If Merc and Hamilton have any balls at all then Russell will be in the seat in 2022.

More like 2021 no?

I wish.

[Rockie]

Man Bottas should be given his P45 without delay, Russell got in the car and if it had been in the days where driver numbers didn't change you would have thought it was Hamilton in the car.

A serious embarrassment to all involved.

[KingVoid]

I’m sure others have said this before, but if you painted the red helmet purple and told me it was Lewis driving that Mercedes car today, I’d have totally believed you.

[Invade]

I don't think Russell's race pace was devastating, and unfortunately at times he had to manage PU gremlins and I'm not sure how much that affected his pace after the first stops. But he was solid and his overtake on Bottas was really super. He demonstrated a lot of skill over the weekend.

I hope he gets the Abu Dhabi weekend to build on this.

[matzy]

Sigh ...

Why can’t we have good things? HAM/RUS for 2021 please.

Why the hell Toto gave Bottas a seat for 2021 so early I don’t know. George was immense today.

So funny the commentators were going on about George possibly fluffing the start and the “experienced” drivers like Leclerc and Verstappen smelling blood ... oh how did that go? Oh yeah lol

Then the commentators joked about George possibly missing his pit stop markings .. nope he didn’t ... even the extra stop he had to do because those with the “experience” put the wrong damn tyres on!! LOL

[mikeyg123]

Next year we could well have the 7 best drivers in F1 in 7 different cars. I don't think that is a good thing.

[Invade]

Next year we could well have the 7 best drivers in F1 in 7 different cars. I don't think that is a good thing.

Remove Mercedes and it would probably be a great thing.

[mikeyg123]

Next year we could well have the 7 best drivers in F1 in 7 different cars. I don't think that is a good thing.

Remove Mercedes and it would probably be a great thing.

As someone who gets most excited about comparing and attempting to rank drivers I'd much rather see those 7 drivers directly against one another rather than teammates they will easily beat.

[Invade]

Next year we could well have the 7 best drivers in F1 in 7 different cars. I don't think that is a good thing.

Remove Mercedes and it would probably be a great thing.

As someone who gets most excited about comparing and attempting to rank drivers I'd much rather see those 7 drivers directly against one another rather than teammates they will easily beat.

I'm just thinking of how close so many of these cars are though, with top level 'number 1' drivers ready to lead the charge. I think the racing will be epic next year between the likes of Ricciardo, Alonso, Vettel, Verstappen, Leclerc, HOPEFULLY Perez, in generally close, competitive machinery.

But I take your point.

[babararacucudada]

Well done on the forecasts - the top 2 forecasts were correct.

So Russel was comfortably leading the race until the first pit stop and didn't lose any positions by his fault.

The next question is how well will Russell do when he is more comfortable (size-wise) in the car and has time to find out how to get the most out of it?

[BMWSauber84]

It was certainly very encouraging for Russell. I think Bottas would have closed up to him by the end of the race, but overtaking might have been a different story. Although Bottas tends to fall away at the end of tyre stints. Obviously George came in on one of the most simple circuit layouts, and maybe on a track with more technical sections, it would have been tougher for him to slot in and perform that way.

All that said though, with the limitations he faced, Bottas should have given him a shellacking today. The fact that not only didn't happen, but was at times happening in reverse shows an incredibly strong baseline of ability. It also further proves how strong and drivable that Merc is.

[Covalent]

Oh my that boy seems like a special talent, I too would have believed it was Lewis driving the car. I wonder if this will be used against Lewis in the contract negotiations. Lewis demands tens of millions but a kid that looked just as good (as a stand-in at that) would probably drive for next to nothing.

This said, Bottas hasn't really been himself these last few races, so I wonder if he was really on it tonight. But chances are Bottas will face an even bigger challenge if George races with Merc in Abu Dhabi as well. Hopefully both drivers and Mercedes themselves will keep their feces together.

[Mayox]

So almost as i thought - i voted RUS to beat BOT in both quali and race - what we know after this race?

Is Bottas really top driver and WDC material but he's unlucky to have all time great as teammate? no, a driver who never scored a point in F1 just clearly beat him in the race... in term of pace, racecraft... everything

A driver from Williams (a good and talented one, but still) just crushed the entire pack with no problems whatsoever at his first attempt in the car...

Bottas is just Barichello/Irvine type of driver driver, nothing more - and thats exacly why Russell will not get the seat for 2021, sad but true

[TheGiantHogweed]

Sigh ...

Why can’t we have good things? HAM/RUS for 2021 please.

Why the hell Toto gave Bottas a seat for 2021 so early I don’t know. George was immense today.

So funny the commentators were going on about George possibly fluffing the start and the “experienced” drivers like Leclerc and Verstappen smelling blood ... oh how did that go? Oh yeah lol

Then the commentators joked about George possibly missing his pit stop markings .. nope he didn’t ... even the extra stop he had to do because those with the “experience” put the wrong damn tyres on!! LOL

Some of these statements make so little sense. Bottas was signed well before today, and he finished 2nd in the standings last year and will almost certainly this year too. It wasn't a baffling decision to sign Bottas like you are suggesting. Why should Russell doing what he did today make Toto's decision months ago any different? It is looking like Russell will be a good choice for 2022, but I think he still needs more time. People suggesting an unplanned change and replacing Bottas next year likely won't be better. We can't judge everything from one race and Bottas has far more experience. Give Russell another season and early confirmation of the driver in 2022 and he will be far more prepared.

Bottas isn't really any worse than he has been. He's proving he sometimes can beat hamilton and often be close, so it isn't bad that he's been kept for 2021 at all.

[F1_Ernie]

Sigh ...

Why can’t we have good things? HAM/RUS for 2021 please.

Why the hell Toto gave Bottas a seat for 2021 so early I don’t know. George was immense today.

So funny the commentators were going on about George possibly fluffing the start and the “experienced” drivers like Leclerc and Verstappen smelling blood ... oh how did that go? Oh yeah lol

Then the commentators joked about George possibly missing his pit stop markings .. nope he didn’t ... even the extra stop he had to do because those with the “experience” put the wrong damn tyres on!! LOL

I thought Russell said after the race he did miss his markings because he had the car in the wrong setting.

[mikeyg123]

Sigh ...

Why can’t we have good things? HAM/RUS for 2021 please.

Why the hell Toto gave Bottas a seat for 2021 so early I don’t know. George was immense today.

So funny the commentators were going on about George possibly fluffing the start and the “experienced” drivers like Leclerc and Verstappen smelling blood ... oh how did that go? Oh yeah lol

Then the commentators joked about George possibly missing his pit stop markings .. nope he didn’t ... even the extra stop he had to do because those with the “experience” put the wrong damn tyres on!! LOL

Some of these statements make so little sense. Bottas was signed well before today, and he finished 2nd in the standings last year and will almost certainly this year too. It wasn't a baffling decision to sign Bottas like you are suggesting. Why should Russell doing what he did today make Toto's decision months ago any different? It is looking like Russell will be a good choice for 2022, but I think he still needs more time. People suggesting an unplanned change and replacing Bottas next year likely won't be better. We can't judge everything from one race and Bottas has far more experience. Give Russell another season and early confirmation of the driver in 2022 and he will be far more prepared.

Bottas isn't really any worse than he has been. He's proving he sometimes can beat hamilton and often be close, so it isn't bad that he's been kept for 2021 at all.

I think you're over analysing. All it's meant is that Merc don't have their two best drivers driving for them in 2021.

[Johnson]

A great race in the end and a great performance from Russell, so impressive to step in and match Bottas. It has raised more questions than given answers, we really need round 2 of this match up in AD.

Would Bottas have caught Russell?
Who actually had the better race pace?

It’s a shame we did not really get to see that. It seems pretty equal but with Bottas coming out 8.5 seconds behind after the stop and we had a chance to see. He had it down to 4.9 but we will never know if Russell was holding back or not during that phase.

[BMWSauber84]

The translation of Toto's Sky Germany interview.

Toto Wolff when asked about the performance of Bottas today: "I need to talk with him and his crew but yeah he did not shine today."

[JN23]

A great race in the end and a great performance from Russell, so impressive to step in and match Bottas. It has raised more questions than given answers, we really need round 2 of this match up in AD.

Would Bottas have caught Russell?
Who actually had the better race pace?

It’s a shame we did not really get to see that. It seems pretty equal but with Bottas coming out 8.5 seconds behind after the stop and we had a chance to see. He had it down to 4.9 but we will never know if Russell was holding back or not during that phase.

As I said in another post, three seconds of that closing of the gap by Bottas was the lap the VSC ended.

[JN23]

The translation of Toto's Sky Germany interview.

Toto Wolff when asked about the performance of Bottas today: "I need to talk with him and his crew but yeah he did not shine today."

Brutal.

It might turn out to be incredible short termism but I feel like today is the beginning of the end for Bottas at Merc unless Hamilton retires at the end of 2021.

[TheGiantHogweed]

A great race in the end and a great performance from Russell, so impressive to step in and match Bottas. It has raised more questions than given answers, we really need round 2 of this match up in AD.

Would Bottas have caught Russell?
Who actually had the better race pace?

It’s a shame we did not really get to see that. It seems pretty equal but with Bottas coming out 8.5 seconds behind after the stop and we had a chance to see. He had it down to 4.9 but we will never know if Russell was holding back or not during that phase.

As I said in another post, three seconds of that closing of the gap by Bottas was the lap the VSC ended.

I noticed the gap go from 4.9 to 8 when the VSC came out. He had closed that gap from 8+ seconds earlier to under 5 himself and brundle pointed out he looked comfortable and quick at this stage. Yea, we don't know, but I think Bottas most likely will have finished just behind Russell had things gone as expected.