2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

Absolutely epic ending there between Bottas, Russell and Verstappen!

Gotta love a good qualy.

Bottas was solid, but isn't thrilled with his own lap.

As for Leclerc... 8O

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Bottas seems to be sounding a bit like Hamilton does when he was beaten. Implying that it wasn't his best lap. I didn't think it looked bad unless we missed some of it.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm
I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.
For sure, Leclerc in particular did an insane job. When people say "out performing the car" this is the sort of performance they are referring to.

I would also mention Aitken who did a good job for a total rookie.

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:07 pm
Bottas seems to be sounding a bit like Hamilton does when he was beaten. Implying that it wasn't his best lap. I didn't think it looked bad unless we missed some of it.
Don't think he ever really maximised S3.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Tufty »

Too close for comfort for Mercedes in general
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:09 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm
I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.
For sure, Leclerc in particular did an insane job. When people say "out performing the car" this is the sort of performance they are referring to.

I would also mention Aitken who did a good job for a total rookie.
Do you think this lap was better than his British and Portugeuse GP efforts?

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Brilliant from George. The fact it's a short lap meant that a gap of a couple of tenths would translate to quite a big gap on a normal lap, but this quali gap means that even if it was tripled, it would be very respectable. Great also from Leclerc and Kvyat.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Does anyone out there still doubt that Leclerc is a special talent after that lap? The Ferrari engine really isn't the one to have around here, but he's produced something rather special. His reward will likely be to watch other cars glide past him in the race though.

Credit to George for achieving a front row start. The excuses were there if he was to have a rough session, but he handled the pressure very nicely. Jack Aitken was also competitive, and I think rather exposed that Latifi just isn't blessed with the natural pace to succeed at this level.

Stroll faces another tricky start in the pack, and Albon having managed to achieve the 'bare minimum' qualifying position expected of him last week failed miserably. The most worrying thing is the radio communication he gave where he didn't feel he could go any faster.

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F1Tyrant
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

For a moment there I thought George would pinch it! Still very impressive to match Bottas after driving the car for about 4 hours.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

Clearly shows how overrated Hamilton's pole record is.. if a driver like Russell can come in and almost get pole in this car imagine how many poles Verstappen/Leclerc/Ricciardo would have in this car... I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:28 pm
Does anyone out there still doubt that Leclerc is a special talent after that lap? The Ferrari engine really isn't the one to have around here, but he's produced something rather special. His reward will likely be to watch other cars glide past him in the race though.

Credit to George for achieving a front row start. The excuses were there if he was to have a rough session, but he handled the pressure very nicely. Jack Aitken was also competitive, and I think rather exposed that Latifi just isn't blessed with the natural pace to succeed at this level.

Stroll faces another tricky start in the pack, and Albon having managed to achieve the 'bare minimum' qualifying position expected of him last week failed miserably. The most worrying thing is the radio communication he gave where he didn't feel he could go any faster.
I believe Leclerc has the highest peak speed in F1. Or at least he puts together more instances of absolute peak speed than any other driver. In the dry in 2020, I reckon he's produced 3 laps on the level of Hamilton's Spa lap... that's just in one season (British, Portuguese, Sakhir). I think we'll see special laps with quite some regularity from Leclerc. Verstappen is still more metronomic though and hasn't produced a lap any worse than 'good' for the entire season.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Let's also take into account that George simply doesn't fit in the cockpit and is wearing shoes a size too small.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:52 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.
I think Leclerc has that "peaky" edge that Hamilton has had throughout his career. Gonna be really fun to watch him pull laps out his pickle.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

It's tempting to take a guess as to what Hamilton might have been able to do here. Bottas had a messy Friday and never quite seemed to hook it all up today. He's run Hamilton close on a number of Saturdays this season, but this has the feeling of being one of those where he'd have been a couple of tenths off. All speculation of course.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:52 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.
TBF you both could be right.

I think qualifying is a comparative weakness for Hamilton. He's almost always had a bigger advantage over his team mates in races than in Quali.

Than being said I still think he's the best qualifier over the last two decades.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Johnson »

Invade wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:09 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:07 pm
Bottas seems to be sounding a bit like Hamilton does when he was beaten. Implying that it wasn't his best lap. I didn't think it looked bad unless we missed some of it.
Don't think he ever really maximised S3.
He went purple on his last lap but was already way down beforehand

schumilegend
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:52 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.
The car he has driven has close to a 100 front row starts..Show me one other driver that has driven a car like that for so long?

Schumacher forever#1
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Nearly forgot what it was like to have multiple drivers battling for pole position. Fantastic session, capturing the highs of Formula 1 that have become a distant memory lately.

Russell turned up - Next generation of drivers will certainly give the Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel generation a run for their money.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:52 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.
Whilst I'm not agreeing with the post you replied to, it could be argued that your finest qualifier of his era has qualified in a lot of the greatest cars of his era. His rookie year was great, but I don't judge a career as long as his from a single season, rookie or not. When he wasn't in the greatest car and the RB was clearly that, he didn't look great in quali.

Is he the greatest of his era at quali? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't claim he was. This sport, especially s in qualifying rather than races, is too car dependant for that for me to call it.
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F1Tyrant
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:15 pm
I think qualifying is a comparative weakness for Hamilton. He's almost always had a bigger advantage over his team mates in races than in Quali.
We had a similar discussion in another thread, I'm firmly of a belief this is a hybrid era subjective feeling not borne out in his head to heads. Hamilton's never utterly blown away his teammates on Sunday in a Schumacher/Alonso-esque domination. He dials it up when required with the occasional off weekend where the dial breaks.

However, on Saturday he's blown away all of his teammates besides Alonso and Rosberg.
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:48 pm
When he wasn't in the greatest car and the RB was clearly that, he didn't look great in quali
Hamilton beat Button 44-14 on Saturday over their time together at McLaren.

Only Vettel and Webber have more front row starts from 2009-2013 than Hamilton. His record is exceptional for the period he lacked the best car, at least over 1 lap.
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Is he the greatest of his era at quali? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't claim he was.
The other possibilities for the whole period 2007-2020 are Vettel, Alonso and Ricciardo. My confidence in Hamilton is that he's only been outqualified once over a season (by Rosberg in 2014) whereas Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo and he himself was beaten by Verstappen and Hulkenberg.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:15 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:52 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:31 pm
I think Hamilton is overrated as a qualifier..What impresses me most is his race pace
Absolute nonsense.

Hamilton outqualified Alonso as a rookie and he has only ever been beaten by Trulli on Saturday across his entire career.

Only man to get pole position in 2011 that wasn't driving an RB7. Has the most poles and front rows between 2007-2013 of any driver not driving a Red Bull.

Hamilton is the finest qualifier of his era.
The car he has driven has close to a 100 front row starts..Show me one other driver that has driven a car like that for so long?
While the car is brilliant, that can sometimes actually mask things slightly. If Hamilton absolutely nails a special lap, he'll just start in exactly the same position as if he'd driven just a decent lap. Of course the flip side of that is that if he has a poor lap, he'll probably still be starting on the front row. Similarly with Max being in the second best car with a lame duck teammate, he knows he'll be starting in third place barring a miracle lap or binning it.

I wouldn't say Hamilton is a ruthlessly consistent qualifier but it's not easy to be in this day and age.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Exediron »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:44 pm
The other possibilities for the whole period 2007-2020 are Vettel, Alonso and Ricciardo. My confidence in Hamilton is that he's only been outqualified once over a season (by Rosberg in 2014) whereas Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo and he himself was beaten by Verstappen and Hulkenberg.
I'm not sure where you're getting that from, because Ricciardo was certainly not beaten by Hulkenberg. Ricciardo out-qualified Hulk 14-7 in his first season in the team.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:09 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm
I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.
For sure, Leclerc in particular did an insane job. When people say "out performing the car" this is the sort of performance they are referring to.

I would also mention Aitken who did a good job for a total rookie.
When a F2 midfielder steps in and almost matches the incumbent driver, it tells you a lot about the quality of that incumbent driver.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Exediron wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:12 pm
I'm not sure where you're getting that from, because Ricciardo was certainly not beaten by Hulkenberg. Ricciardo out-qualified Hulk 14-7 in his first season in the team.
My bad, I somehow thought Ricciardo lost in qualifying but won in the races. His claim becomes stronger and his pairing with Norris should shed some further light.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:44 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:15 pm
I think qualifying is a comparative weakness for Hamilton. He's almost always had a bigger advantage over his team mates in races than in Quali.
We had a similar discussion in another thread, I'm firmly of a belief this is a hybrid era subjective feeling not borne out in his head to heads. Hamilton's never utterly blown away his teammates on Sunday in a Schumacher/Alonso-esque domination. He dials it up when required with the occasional off weekend where the dial breaks.

However, on Saturday he's blown away all of his teammates besides Alonso and Rosberg.
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:48 pm
When he wasn't in the greatest car and the RB was clearly that, he didn't look great in quali
Hamilton beat Button 44-14 on Saturday over their time together at McLaren.

Only Vettel and Webber have more front row starts from 2009-2013 than Hamilton. His record is exceptional for the period he lacked the best car, at least over 1 lap.
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:48 pm
Is he the greatest of his era at quali? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't claim he was.
The other possibilities for the whole period 2007-2020 are Vettel, Alonso and Ricciardo. My confidence in Hamilton is that he's only been outqualified once over a season (by Rosberg in 2014) whereas Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo and he himself was beaten by Verstappen and Hulkenberg.
I think Rosberg and Bottas have beaten Hamilton on merit more often in quali than in races.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mpls2 »

Leclerc got a tow from Verstappehn, good lap though..

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Good effort from Kvyat to be P6. Gasly probably felt he could have been at least there but his car had a damaged floor from Q1 which is a shame.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:33 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:09 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm
I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.
For sure, Leclerc in particular did an insane job. When people say "out performing the car" this is the sort of performance they are referring to.

I would also mention Aitken who did a good job for a total rookie.
When a F2 midfielder steps in and almost matches the incumbent driver, it tells you a lot about the quality of that incumbent driver.
Latifi is there primarily because of his wealth, I think we all know this.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by KingVoid »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:19 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:18 pm
Honestly, my general impression of watching F2 is that DRS is totally redundant around this circuit.

If FIA wanted to try one race without DRS, this is it.
What would be the point, what are you trying to prove?
Overtaking should not be easy. DRS around this circuit will make it far too easy.

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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:56 am
pokerman wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:19 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:18 pm
Honestly, my general impression of watching F2 is that DRS is totally redundant around this circuit.

If FIA wanted to try one race without DRS, this is it.
What would be the point, what are you trying to prove?
Overtaking should not be easy. DRS around this circuit will make it far too easy.
Did you watch the F2 race, they use DRS as well and I didn't see any overly easy passes, most had to be toughed out in the corners.

It's strange how cars with basic aerodynamics need DRS yet F1 should do without it.
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:03 pm
I think Leclerc, Russell and Kvyat were the stand outs this time.
Checo deserves a shout out too. He's running an older engine. He said he's losing about 2 tenths because of the less power. Hope his engine stays strong as RP race pace was good going by FP2 analysis.
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