The idiocy of track limit rules

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Asphalt_World
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The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

I continue to be massively disappointed that drivers are putting pressure on the stewards to allow them to drive outside of the track's while lines without receiving a penalty. What gives them the right to say where they can run wide? They say, as they have about T4 in Bahrain, that there is no time to be gained, but there must be a gain of some kind or another. I'm guessing that if there really isn't single lap time they're gaining, a wider line must be favoured as with reduced steering angle at that corner, there will be less tyre wear.

I simply can not believe that a circuit design can simply be ignored at the will of the drivers. If it was for safety, I'd understand it, but it doesn't ever seem to be for anything other than the fact it makes it easier for the drivers.

Am I in the minority here?
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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

I agree completely, the line they are taking through 4 is clearly advantageous. I think that they should give the cars a five seconds ERS freeze every time they exceed track limits in the race, and qualifying laps should be removed.

mikeyg123
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by mikeyg123 »

Have I missed something I thought they were monitoring the exit of turn 4? I agree drivers moaning about having to stay on circuit is ridiculous. If gravel was down there they wouldn't be in it every other lap. If they're worried they won't keep it on track then go slower.

Asphalt_World
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Have I missed something I thought they were monitoring the exit of turn 4? I agree drivers moaning about having to stay on circuit is ridiculous. If gravel was down there they wouldn't be in it every other lap. If they're worried they won't keep it on track then go slower.
I don't think they are in quali and I believe that they won't in the race, unless they gain an advantage such as a successful pass or to defend from a pass.
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Schumacher forever#1
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Replace them with gravel and that'll keep them quiet. Too much moral hazard in F1.
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JN23
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Have I missed something I thought they were monitoring the exit of turn 4? I agree drivers moaning about having to stay on circuit is ridiculous. If gravel was down there they wouldn't be in it every other lap. If they're worried they won't keep it on track then go slower.

They changed their mind before FP3.

mikeyg123
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by mikeyg123 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:30 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Have I missed something I thought they were monitoring the exit of turn 4? I agree drivers moaning about having to stay on circuit is ridiculous. If gravel was down there they wouldn't be in it every other lap. If they're worried they won't keep it on track then go slower.
I don't think they are in quali and I believe that they won't in the race, unless they gain an advantage such as a successful pass or to defend from a pass.
FFS why? Turn 4 is about half a mile wide if you can't keep it on the track through there regularly then you should probably try a different profession tbh.

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Banana Man
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Banana Man »

Put a 2m wide strip of gravel all the way around the side of the track, with tarmac behind if needs be. It won’t be enough to get anyone beached but will ruin your grip if you run an inch over the white line. Best of both worlds.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

If they're worried about gravel, and I know that there's an issue with gravel that cars sliding sideways can dig in and flip/bounce, but I am sure a smooth but incredibly slippery 1m wide strip of something where grip is almost zero, would make a big difference.
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mikeyg123
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by mikeyg123 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:08 pm
If they're worried about gravel, and I know that there's an issue with gravel that cars sliding sideways can dig in and flip/bounce, but I am sure a smooth but incredibly slippery 1m wide strip of something where grip is almost zero, would make a big difference.
I've never understood why there worried about cars flipping. Rolling is just about the safest way to dissipate energy in an F1 car. I can't remember anyone getting hurt due to the car rolling in my entire time of watching F1.

Asphalt_World
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:16 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:08 pm
If they're worried about gravel, and I know that there's an issue with gravel that cars sliding sideways can dig in and flip/bounce, but I am sure a smooth but incredibly slippery 1m wide strip of something where grip is almost zero, would make a big difference.
I've never understood why there worried about cars flipping. Rolling is just about the safest way to dissipate energy in an F1 car. I can't remember anyone getting hurt due to the car rolling in my entire time of watching F1.
Maybe so, but it's true that when a car doesn't roll but ploughs on across gravel, it skips so doesn't lose much speed before hitting the barriers.

By the way, I'm not against gravel traps at all, just putting info across.
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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

They could make the boundary of the track onto tarmac run offs be 5 metres of very slippery paint, and cars that pass out of that then have to rejoin later.

One of the main issues with gravel is that it causes cars to retire - which often leads to safety cars which disrupt the race. Also, when gravel gets kicked back onto the race track it's not good either. I mean, it can spice things up, but I personally am not a fan of the blue turtle shell effect of a leading driver being taken out by a random piece of debris that was impossible to see.

Asphalt_World
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:28 pm
They could make the boundary of the track onto tarmac run offs be 5 metres of very slippery paint, and cars that pass out of that then have to rejoin later.

One of the main issues with gravel is that it causes cars to retire - which often leads to safety cars which disrupt the race. Also, when gravel gets kicked back onto the race track it's not good either. I mean, it can spice things up, but I personally am not a fan of the blue turtle shell effect of a leading driver being taken out by a random piece of debris that was impossible to see.
Yes, gravel has it's place in motorsport and I believe it's critical for circuits that host top-level motorbike racing, but the use of a very very slippery surface would be my choice too. I had thought of a very abrasive strip of the track which would mess the tyres up but actually help slow the cars in spins, but if the tyres are destroyed by running a little wide, that seems rather a big penalty.
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kls2020
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by kls2020 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:31 pm
Replace them with gravel and that'll keep them quiet. Too much moral hazard in F1.
Instead of gravel use a layer of coal dust . F1's fear of competitor's cars increasing their
"Carbon footprints " would then make it necessary to forbid cars from crossing over these track limit lines for good .

Schumacher forever#1
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

kls2020 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:13 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:31 pm
Replace them with gravel and that'll keep them quiet. Too much moral hazard in F1.
Instead of gravel use a layer of coal dust . F1's fear of competitor's cars increasing their
"Carbon footprints " would then make it necessary to forbid cars from crossing over these track limit lines for good .
:lol:
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Tufty
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Tufty »

Have gravel EVERYWHERE. But also have the option to cover them with metal sheets for when it's cars, not bikes, at the venue. That way you get a slippery surface, which you can incline to increase momentum loss, for cars, without sacrificing the gravel for bikes.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by Asphalt_World »

Tufty wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:37 pm
Have gravel EVERYWHERE. But also have the option to cover them with metal sheets for when it's cars, not bikes, at the venue. That way you get a slippery surface, which you can incline to increase momentum loss, for cars, without sacrificing the gravel for bikes.
Nice thought, but I'm not sure how you'd attach them down in huge gravel traps. Plus, a full run-off of metal would do nothing to slow a car before a barrier.
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j man
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Re: The idiocy of track limit rules

Post by j man »

This irritates me as well. I can think of no other sport where the boundary marking the field of play is open to interpretation and can be re-negotiated by the competitors if they find it too difficult to stay within it.

I liked the suggestion that the drivers should take an extreme interpretation of the "no track limits at turn 4", by simply turning left at the exit and skipping half the circuit by taking the outer loop.

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