F2/F3 2021

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pokerman
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:41 pm
pokerman wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:32 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:53 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:05 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:01 am
Tried explaining this to my son and he thought it was stupid. This is a kid who loves F1 and has asked to watch other series. So theres a foot with a bullet through it right there.

His actual question was "does that mean the best drivers can't win"

Anyway, imo they should just bin qualy. Sprint 1 is reversed grid of championship, Sprint 2 is finishing order of Sprint 1 and Feature is finishing order of Sprint 2. Done. That way drivers are forced to work for it, but are continually rewarded for a good finish and climb up as weekend progresses. Would also do fewer points for sprint races rather than points for fewer places.
That's even worse, the better drivers get penalised even more.
How so? Because of the first reversed grid? If so then yes, they do. But their immediate advesraries are penalised to the same degree. So the driver leading the championshiop starts dead-last, but the driver 2nd in the standings is right alongside them and so on. Seems to me to be the perfect way for the cream to rise to the top.

Only danger is you may end up with the top drivers being there because of consistecy rather than outright wins. Mentioned this to a friend and his suggestion was that you keep this format till say the last 3 rounds when they just line up in WDC order so you get the lead drivers on the podium "when it counts". I can see that but I don't like the idea of dicking about with the race weekend format during the season.
It's just another system that enables mediocre drivers to win races, it's also a system you would employ to keep the points differences tight and stop any driver from running away with the series thus better ensuring the title goes down to the last race.

Basically I want to see the better drivers winning races anything else just creates fake winners, we see that already in F2 and F3, the new systems just create even more fake winners, you see Ticktum winning a reverse grid race were faster drivers are handicapped and he proclaims to Helmet Marko that he was wrong to drop him from the Red Bull program, I just find it all so fake.
OK I get that but I think it overlooks the self-levelling aspect. i.e if a mediocre driver wins a race ( so probably not that bad anyway) then they accumulate points and and are further down the grid the following weekend so are less likely to get another win..

No suggested format is perfect or will please anyone, but I don't feel it's fake.
I think any system that prevents the fastest drivers from winning races is fake, along with enabling the 10th fastest driver to win a race, I think 10th fastest can be considered mediocre when we're considering finding drivers for F1.

It does provide for more entertainment but should that be it's purpose as a support act for F1 or should it's main purpose be finding the fastest drivers for F1.

The only back down I would make would be to use the fastest laps in the feature race to determine the top 8/10 starters for the sprint race so the positions are more earned than gifted, but of course I'm just referring to the present system, the new system just goes to another level of fakery.
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DOLOMITE
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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An interesting development Nannini (Nephew of Alessandro) is doing the full season of both F2 AND F3 in the same year. The new schedule allows this.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by JN23 »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am
An interesting development Nannini (Nephew of Alessandro) is doing the full season of both F2 AND F3 in the same year. The new schedule allows this.
I think someone else on here raised a concern a while ago that because of F2/F3 being split, someone with a rich backer/parents could quickly get super license points by competing in both. Don’t know if this applies to Nannini but something to watch out for. They should amend the rules so you can only do one.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by DOLOMITE »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:32 am
DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am
An interesting development Nannini (Nephew of Alessandro) is doing the full season of both F2 AND F3 in the same year. The new schedule allows this.
I think someone else on here raised a concern a while ago that because of F2/F3 being split, someone with a rich backer/parents could quickly get super license points by competing in both. Don’t know if this applies to Nannini but something to watch out for. They should amend the rules so you can only do one.
Agreed, doesn't seem right that you can do this. Should be a progression from one to the other.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:32 am
DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:28 am
An interesting development Nannini (Nephew of Alessandro) is doing the full season of both F2 AND F3 in the same year. The new schedule allows this.
I think someone else on here raised a concern a while ago that because of F2/F3 being split, someone with a rich backer/parents could quickly get super license points by competing in both. Don’t know if this applies to Nannini but something to watch out for. They should amend the rules so you can only do one.
Maybe that's the goal of FIA? More rich sons and celebrities, less talents.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by JN23 »

Some excellent news...

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by JN23 »

Practice for F2 in Bahrain has is underway, so who do we fancy to win the championship this year? I'm guessing Shwartzman, Lungaard. UNI-Virtuosi look to have a decent team with Zhou and Drugovich. Not sure whether any of the F3 graduates are good.

Times from the test are here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16228

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

I think Zhao and Ticktum will be 1st and 2nd in the championship. A lot of good drivers in the mix.

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DOLOMITE
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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I'm going to watch this year if I can find the time, but the grids don't excite me much to be honest. Still a bit of "best of the rest" feeling about them.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:42 am
I'm going to watch this year if I can find the time, but the grids don't excite me much to be honest. Still a bit of "best of the rest" feeling about them.
I dunno, you've got the last two F3 winners on the grid and numerous others that have done well in other series. I think it's as strong a field in terms of depth that we've had at that level for a long time.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

Not sure about the top end of the field but I concur that it's got good depth comparatively. I don't expect any runaway winner or class of the field. Reckon it will be a cracking season... but then I'm always the optimist.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Zhou took the chequered flag twice... that pole can't stand then.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

Tufty wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:12 pm
Zhou took the chequered flag twice... that pole can't stand then.
Stupid mistake by Zhou but its a shame to see someone receive a sporting penalty for a non sporting and non technical infraction.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:30 pm
Not sure about the top end of the field but I concur that it's got good depth comparatively. I don't expect any runaway winner or class of the field. Reckon it will be a cracking season... but then I'm always the optimist.
Well they're kind of assuring a cracking season with 2 reverse races every weekend, pole man has to start the first race in 10th place and then hope he doesn't get crashed out on the first lap otherwise he starts the second race in last place. That being achieved he then has to pass 2 cars before he gets into the points, only until we get to the 3rd and last race can the pole man start from the place that he earned we're he's able to score a few extra points if he wins the race and that's deemed to make up for being disadvantaged in the first 2 races.

I see one of the organisers saying it will make for a a more exciting weekend whereas I thought we were merely looking for the next big talents, how do you look to judge that with so many spurious race winners and with the lottery nature of the weekend some seriously talented drivers might not get the necessary license points if they get crashed out a few times to many starting in the midfield.

Another thing imagine if the pole man gets a penalty in the second race which carries over to the 3rd race which means he can't even start from pole.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Banana Man »

Aaggghhh.... Vips DSQ from qualifying an impressive 5th due to irregularities on his undertray. :( :(
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Not the DQ I expected...
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

Banana Man wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:12 pm
Aaggghhh.... Vips DSQ from qualifying an impressive 5th due to irregularities on his undertray. :( :(
With the way the seasons set up now a DSQ from quali is a huge penalty. It makes scoring any points for all three races very difficult. He'll start from the back in at least two out of the three races and there's only 8 race weekends.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

What clumsy racecraft by Ticktum, punting Verschoor, sending him to the back in this first sprint race with an overambitious divebomb. And he'll suffer for two races...

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:34 am
What clumsy racecraft by Ticktum, punting Verschoor, sending him to the back in this first sprint race with an overambitious divebomb. And he'll suffer for two races...
5 second penalty for Ticktum, 2 cars failed already the reliability is still a joke.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:42 am
Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:34 am
What clumsy racecraft by Ticktum, punting Verschoor, sending him to the back in this first sprint race with an overambitious divebomb. And he'll suffer for two races...
5 second penalty for Ticktum, 2 cars failed already the reliability is still a joke.
Yep.

Who do you fancy for the Championship here? Lundgaard... Shwartzman... Zhou?

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:53 am
pokerman wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:42 am
Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:34 am
What clumsy racecraft by Ticktum, punting Verschoor, sending him to the back in this first sprint race with an overambitious divebomb. And he'll suffer for two races...
5 second penalty for Ticktum, 2 cars failed already the reliability is still a joke.
Yep.

Who do you fancy for the Championship here? Lundgaard... Shwartzman... Zhou?
My guy is Lundgaard, Pourchaire's car now failed from second place, it really is a joke, this can ruin a driver's career.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:55 am

My guy is Lundgaard, Pourchaire's car now failed from second place, it really is a joke, this can ruin a driver's career.

Yep this is ridiculous. Double pain for any such incident. It's poor form.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by JN23 »

Really not a fan of this format at all. Ticktum spins someone around which ruins both of his sprint races.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

That was a confident and committed overtake on the inside by Piastri on Lundgaard. Lot of talent in this field, I reckon. Piastri is one I'm keenly monitering. He is the reigning F3 Champion, after all.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Am as of now only following the live timing. Not aware where to see live racing. Daruvala is on fire.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

I don't really get the point of sprint races where you have to do tyre management which is this extreme, but OK.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:04 am
I don't really get the point of sprint races where you have to do tyre management which is this extreme, but OK.
Exactly reverse grid racing and tyres that are made out of treacle, the tyre management also seems to help with which team you are in, unfortunately for my man Lundgaard his team ART are not the best at this, he drove slowly to preserve tyres but still ran out of tyres.

Last year the kings of tyre management were Uni-Virtuoso, Carlin and Hitech, Lawson and Duravala were well clear of the field driving for Hitech and Carlin.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Asphalt_World »

Impressive debut win for Lawson and Piastri drove brilliantly on his debut too, battling his teammate, Shwartzman, all the way to the line. Season looking good from the start!
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Banana Man »

Decent recovery from my man Jüri to claim reverse grid pole. Must have been pushing track limits a bit though to get a black and white flag.

I do think it’s better having a sprint race which stretches the tyre wear limits. Without it I think we’d just have cars pounding round at full speed in formation, which isn’t terribly exciting.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Banana Man wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:46 am
Decent recovery from my man Jüri to claim reverse grid pole. Must have been pushing track limits a bit though to get a black and white flag.

I do think it’s better having a sprint race which stretches the tyre wear limits. Without it I think we’d just have cars pounding round at full speed in formation, which isn’t terribly exciting.
There are two sprint races. Why can't we have both?

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:45 am
Impressive debut win for Lawson and Piastri drove brilliantly on his debut too, battling his teammate, Shwartzman, all the way to the line. Season looking good from the start!
He drove well but he qualified 8th but started 3rd, sorry that just bugs me.
Last edited by pokerman on Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Banana Man wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:46 am
Decent recovery from my man Jüri to claim reverse grid pole. Must have been pushing track limits a bit though to get a black and white flag.

I do think it’s better having a sprint race which stretches the tyre wear limits. Without it I think we’d just have cars pounding round at full speed in formation, which isn’t terribly exciting.
If only it was 100% on the drivers themselves to be able to control that.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

It was also rather excessive. Virtually hamstrung the whole race.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:11 pm
It was also rather excessive. Virtually hamstrung the whole race.
Yep and I've just noticed that Zendelli, who finished 9th, made the fastest lap of the race on lap 5 with a 1:50.8s, his last lap of the race was a 1:55.6s, that's a joke.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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JN23 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:56 am
Really not a fan of this format at all. Ticktum spins someone around which ruins both of his sprint races.
But not his feature. Which would have suffered before.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Banana Man »

Messy start in the second race. Stupid from schwartzman.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Banana Man wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:46 pm
Messy start in the second race. Stupid from schwartzman.
Looked to me more like Dan tried to go right from one side of the track to the other, without looking at who he was driving into.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Invade »

Did Ticktum just get immediately struck by karma? Lol.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Invade wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:48 pm
Did Ticktum just get immediately struck by karma? Lol.
That was my first thought, whoever was responsible
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Banana Man »

Tufty wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:48 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:46 pm
Messy start in the second race. Stupid from schwartzman.
Looked to me more like Dan tried to go right from one side of the track to the other, without looking at who he was driving into.
Yeah, bit of a racing incident really, looking at the replays.
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