planetf1.com

A lovely reminder of how I believe F1 cars should still sound. MIck, in his dad's rather lovely F2004 on Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTC7FY5 ... OneFormula

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

This video went straight to my favourites.

Love them, much better than the hairdryers of today. Todays engines are one of the reasons I will probably not go to an F1 race again.

They sounded great on TV. In person, with a grid full of them going round at once, it gave me a headache to be honest.

Unpopular opinion I know, but I think the current engines provide a better spectator experience at the track. There's much more to motor racing than being deafened.

Fantastic! I miss this so much.

j man wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:34 pm

They sounded great on TV. In person, with a grid full of them going round at once, it gave me a headache to be honest.

Unpopular opinion I know, but I think the current engines provide a better spectator experience at the track. There's much more to motor racing than being deafened.

I'm with you on this unpopular opinion.

But there's no denying the V10s were epic on TV!

Last year there was a demo of a (I think) 1993 Footwork at Knockhill during a weekend I was competing.

The sound couldnt help you fall in love with an F1 car.

I never did have the chance to witness the V10s in the flesh, but my first time at Silverstone 2012 was an eye-opener. I'll never, ever forget waiting in traffic to get into the circuit and hearing the V8s in the distance once FP1 started. It was goosebumps for sure.

I might be in the minority, but I like the hybrid sound when sat in the grandstand. The wispy sound of the turbos adds to the atsmosphere, plus the acceleration out of turn two at Monza was unreal.

The F2 cars, however, sound out of this world.

The V10's on the pit straight about to start a race at Spa the memories, it's like they are revving in your heart, the soul of F1 was stolen with this the current PU, then you needed air buds to watch a race.

Will never forget driving to Spa on Friday and hearing the F1 cars from the motorway and was a mile away insane.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

I really disagree with this. The V10's & 12's were certainly the absolute best sounding engines of all time, but the V8's sounded just as incredible in their own right and DID NOT sound bad at all. Different, but certainly not bad in any way.

https://youtu.be/5jTTMxtv2PY?t=69
IDK but that sounds pretty nice to me, and remember, the V8's were rev limited. They could have run at 20K+ RPM reliably but the FIA limited them to 19K RPM initially and then 18K RPM in order to improve reliability and keep speeds down a smidgen.


Personally the V10's sound was incredible, but the combination of the engine along with the crackling of the traction control firing is the greatest thing since anything. LOL

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

I really disagree with this. The V10's & 12's were certainly the absolute best sounding engines of all time, but the V8's sounded just as incredible in their own right and DID NOT sound bad at all. Different, but certainly not bad in any way.

https://youtu.be/5jTTMxtv2PY?t=69
IDK but that sounds pretty nice to me, and remember, the V8's were rev limited. They could have run at 20K+ RPM reliably but the FIA limited them to 19K RPM initially and then 18K RPM in order to improve reliability and keep speeds down a smidgen.


Personally the V10's sound was incredible, but the combination of the engine along with the crackling of the traction control firing is the greatest thing since anything. LOL

I don't think Poker was talking about the sound. The V8s were low torque and generally pretty gutless.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:23 pm

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

I really disagree with this. The V10's & 12's were certainly the absolute best sounding engines of all time, but the V8's sounded just as incredible in their own right and DID NOT sound bad at all. Different, but certainly not bad in any way.

https://youtu.be/5jTTMxtv2PY?t=69
IDK but that sounds pretty nice to me, and remember, the V8's were rev limited. They could have run at 20K+ RPM reliably but the FIA limited them to 19K RPM initially and then 18K RPM in order to improve reliability and keep speeds down a smidgen.


Personally the V10's sound was incredible, but the combination of the engine along with the crackling of the traction control firing is the greatest thing since anything. LOL

I don't think Poker was talking about the sound. The V8s were low torque and generally pretty gutless.

Yes indeed.

How either of you come to the conclusion the 740HP+ or 290Ft lbs of torque is gutless is beyond comprehension and suggests you don't know what you're talking about.

The extremely short stroke or travel of an F1 engine's pistons means the torque is always going to be rather low compared to the HP rating, regardless of the number of cylinders, but more cylinders = more power so the difference between HP & Torque would be less percentage wise. The Hybrids they're currently running are assisted heavily by a plethora of assistive systems which are the reason the torque rating is so much greater percentage wise, but the ICE itself isn't anything particularly special on its own comparatively speaking.

What a sound. What a car. And the red helmet made it all a bit more special

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:58 pm

How either of you come to the conclusion the 740HP+ or 290Ft lbs of torque is gutless is beyond comprehension and suggests you don't know what you're talking about.

The extremely short stroke or travel of an F1 engine's pistons means the torque is always going to be rather low compared to the HP rating, regardless of the number of cylinders, but more cylinders = more power so the difference between HP & Torque would be less percentage wise. The Hybrids they're currently running are assisted heavily by a plethora of assistive systems which are the reason the torque rating is so much greater percentage wise, but the ICE itself isn't anything particularly special on its own comparatively speaking.

Gutless compared to the engines that preceded them and came after them, how the hybrids produce their power is pointless to that argument.

Gutless how though? The lap times completely refute your opinion.
The cars were properly fast and quick just the same. I think you're grasping at straws.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:36 pm

Gutless how though? The lap times completely refute your opinion.
The cars were properly fast and quick just the same. I think you're grasping at straws.

Given they were less powerful I would judge that as the cars themselves being quicker, they had to be over geared to make up for the lack of torque and then often would run out of revs on a long straight when trying to pass another car although that perhaps could be blamed on the imposed rev limit, nevertheless it was refreshing with the hybrids to see they don't have that same problem, DRS pass I'm coming past, dam I just hit the rev limiter.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

I really disagree with this. The V10's & 12's were certainly the absolute best sounding engines of all time, but the V8's sounded just as incredible in their own right and DID NOT sound bad at all. Different, but certainly not bad in any way.

https://youtu.be/5jTTMxtv2PY?t=69
IDK but that sounds pretty nice to me, and remember, the V8's were rev limited. They could have run at 20K+ RPM reliably but the FIA limited them to 19K RPM initially and then 18K RPM in order to improve reliability and keep speeds down a smidgen.


Personally the V10's sound was incredible, but the combination of the engine along with the crackling of the traction control firing is the greatest thing since anything. LOL

Prefer V12's myself... Ferrari 412 T2 was the best.

jeffw wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:22 pm

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Fantastic engines unlike the V8s.

I really disagree with this. The V10's & 12's were certainly the absolute best sounding engines of all time, but the V8's sounded just as incredible in their own right and DID NOT sound bad at all. Different, but certainly not bad in any way.

https://youtu.be/5jTTMxtv2PY?t=69
IDK but that sounds pretty nice to me, and remember, the V8's were rev limited. They could have run at 20K+ RPM reliably but the FIA limited them to 19K RPM initially and then 18K RPM in order to improve reliability and keep speeds down a smidgen.


Personally the V10's sound was incredible, but the combination of the engine along with the crackling of the traction control firing is the greatest thing since anything. LOL

Prefer V12's myself... Ferrari 412 T2 was the best.

I agree that was something else again, one thing I remember more than anything else was the sound of Mansell going flat out through Stowe, this when it was a 170mph corner, Prost needed to have a lift, the sound of the engine was amazing.

When it comes to higher speed, the engines capability to do work (power) is what matters. Engine has to do work to push car through the air. Power is a function of torque versus engine speed.

Flywheel BHP = torque (ft/lb) x Engine Speed (RPM) ÷ 5250

Bulldozer pushing 1000ft/lbs @ 2k rpm = 380bhp
F1 pre-hybrid pushing 275ft/lbs @ 18k rpm = 944bhp
F1 hybrid pushing 350ft/lbs @ 14k rpm = 933bhp

Obviously we are not privvy to see how the dyno power/torque graphs look, the only numbers we come anywhere near seeing are the peak power/torque numbers - but assume its flattish and power bands over 4k revs, (this is flawed, but figures are to illustrate what I mean)

Pre hybrids - 14k-18k rpm - 733-944 BHP in rev range
Hybrids - 10k-14k rpm - 666-933 BHP in rev range

The hybrids have more gears to stay more in the peak power bands, and will have far flatter torque curves than the older engines as a result power delivery will be more linear (delivery is probably more important than peak power, assuming all hybrid F1 engines are within 20-40bhp). They will be better driving engines, with broader scope on engine mapping and how the driver delivers power - but also a fair bit heavier.....

Anyway the pre hybrid engines were not gutless in comparison. They certainly had to be driven differently and offer narrower scope than hybrid engines, but engines/cars were lighter (which will go a way to offsetting less torque at lower speeds).

I don't know the technicalities just the feed back from drivers, the first hybrid had 7 gears, I'm sure the V8s had at least 6 gears, Button said that with the V8's you wouldn't get wheel spin above 2nd gear but when he first drove the hybrid he found he could get wheel spin in 5th gear, for me that's a practical example of which engine actually has more power.

Badgeronimous wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:22 am

Pre hybrids - 14k-18k rpm - 733-944 BHP in rev range
Hybrids - 10k-14k rpm - 666-933 BHP in rev range

We know the V8s didn't produce anything like 944 peak horsepower -- much closer to the lower end of your scale. Everything I've heard quoted about them says their power was somewhere in the mid to high 700s, depending on engine. This article, for example, states the peak power of the 2008 Honda V8 engine as 747 bhp, which is very much in line with everything I remember hearing at the time.

Based on that disparity, it seems clear that the V8s cannot have produced their peak torque anywhere near the top of the rev range.

EDIT: One also needs to remember that the current engines are heavily limited by fuel flow rate. With the same fuel flow as the V8s, they would produce even more power.