Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

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mikeyg123
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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by mikeyg123 »

PT03 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:43 pm
Why do some people give Stroll such a hard time? Stroll = there because Daddy's money .....maybe, but Perez = there because of Sponsors money- whats the big difference?
Because Stroll would not still be in F1 without daddies money. Perez has always justified a place on talent alone. There's also a massive difference on the money spent on Perez's career by sponsors and the money spent on Stroll who has been bought every opportunity it is possible buy.

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by tim3003 »

Azi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:56 pm
Generally, sponsorship is given because of racing talent, though there may be other additional reasons for the backing; Stroll on the other hand has backing regardless of his talent.
I think that's unfair on both Strolls. Senior is too good a businessman to waste his millions on a talentless son. And junior has proved he's as much right to be in F1 on merit as many other drivers.

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by Harpo »

Time when you could make your way to F1 on pure talent, with a couple of friends doing the mechanics, stealing the tyres and sleeping in your van till you get a pinch of sponsor support, is over since a long time. Even Norris is there thanks to daddy's money.
If the current Stroll Junior was called Whatsit (John or even Maurice), and not sharing the same name as the team owner, I am sure there would be far less questions about Perez leaving instead of Whatsit.
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by mikeyg123 »

tim3003 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:23 pm
Azi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:56 pm
Generally, sponsorship is given because of racing talent, though there may be other additional reasons for the backing; Stroll on the other hand has backing regardless of his talent.
I think that's unfair on both Strolls. Senior is too good a businessman to waste his millions on a talentless son. And junior has proved he's as much right to be in F1 on merit as many other drivers.
He hasn't wasted the money. It's done what it was supposed to do. That doesn't mean Lance Stroll would be near F1 without it.

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:59 pm
tim3003 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:23 pm
Azi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:56 pm
Generally, sponsorship is given because of racing talent, though there may be other additional reasons for the backing; Stroll on the other hand has backing regardless of his talent.
I think that's unfair on both Strolls. Senior is too good a businessman to waste his millions on a talentless son. And junior has proved he's as much right to be in F1 on merit as many other drivers.
He hasn't wasted the money. It's done what it was supposed to do. That doesn't mean Lance Stroll would be near F1 without it.
I'm gonna call Bull Dookie on this…

Even Button said so. He said the Lance very much earned his place in F1 on merit hanks to winning just about everything leading up to getting the call up from Williams. As well, Lance has shown on-track that he does belong. he's been very clean and very quick both off the line and with decisions on the fly and has yielded excellent results. AND he's a wonderful guy. just a positive cheerful attitude and a pleasure to watch being interviewed. His dad did an excellent job of raising a wonderful human being and a gentleman which is something you rarely see with families of their kind of wealth, because usually there's a node of arrogance that stems from the top to the bottom and I have never seen anything even close to that from either of the Strolls.

At some point you're going to have to jump off that misconceived notion bandwagon and give the guy the credit he's due, because he's proving his worth on-track.
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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by Exediron »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:56 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:59 pm
He hasn't wasted the money. It's done what it was supposed to do. That doesn't mean Lance Stroll would be near F1 without it.
I'm gonna call Bull Dookie on this…

Even Button said so. He said the Lance very much earned his place in F1 on merit hanks to winning just about everything leading up to getting the call up from Williams. As well, Lance has shown on-track that he does belong. he's been very clean and very quick both off the line and with decisions on the fly and has yielded excellent results. AND he's a wonderful guy. just a positive cheerful attitude and a pleasure to watch being interviewed. His dad did an excellent job of raising a wonderful human being and a gentleman which is something you rarely see with families of their kind of wealth, because usually there's a node of arrogance that stems from the top to the bottom and I have never seen anything even close to that from either of the Strolls.

At some point you're going to have to jump off that misconceived notion bandwagon and give the guy the credit he's due, because he's proving his worth on-track.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but the X-factor here is how much of Lance's success is directly due to Lawrence's money. If -- as his detractors allege -- his winning in lower formulas was due to massive spending and unfair advantages in his favor, then it remains true that he would not have reached F1 without it.

Personally, I feel that Lance entered F1 far too early, and at the time he was completely unqualified for a seat at the table. At this point I feel he has earned his spot on the grid, but I don't think you can say he got it originally on merit.
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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:56 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:59 pm
tim3003 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:23 pm
Azi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:56 pm
Generally, sponsorship is given because of racing talent, though there may be other additional reasons for the backing; Stroll on the other hand has backing regardless of his talent.
I think that's unfair on both Strolls. Senior is too good a businessman to waste his millions on a talentless son. And junior has proved he's as much right to be in F1 on merit as many other drivers.
He hasn't wasted the money. It's done what it was supposed to do. That doesn't mean Lance Stroll would be near F1 without it.
I'm gonna call Bull Dookie on this…

Even Button said so. He said the Lance very much earned his place in F1 on merit hanks to winning just about everything leading up to getting the call up from Williams. As well, Lance has shown on-track that he does belong. he's been very clean and very quick both off the line and with decisions on the fly and has yielded excellent results. AND he's a wonderful guy. just a positive cheerful attitude and a pleasure to watch being interviewed. His dad did an excellent job of raising a wonderful human being and a gentleman which is something you rarely see with families of their kind of wealth, because usually there's a node of arrogance that stems from the top to the bottom and I have never seen anything even close to that from either of the Strolls.

At some point you're going to have to jump off that misconceived notion bandwagon and give the guy the credit he's due, because he's proving his worth on-track.
Ok, point me in the direction of all the other drivers who have had the opportunity to move to F1 from the 4th tier in recent times. He's shown nothing on track than Pedro Diniz didn't show 20 years earlier. If you give someone fairly talented all the opportunities someone so rich would never have they will eventually become good enough.

Also worth pointing out he didn't exactly win on a level playing field.

This plays out in many industries not just F1.

And yeah, Button isn't going to rubbish someone he works with in the paddock and has to interview. Colour me shocked.

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by PT03 »

Perez had Telmex backing from the early days of his career, when he first started at Sauber who becomes their main sponsor ...you guessed it Telmex. so you could call them his rich Daddy. Stroll has won more Championships he has competed in than Perez, so why does Perez deserve to be in F1 more than Stroll? ...........

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by Schermerhorn »

Stroll is turning into a good racing driver if results are anything to go by but how much of that is because strategy has favoured him lately rather than pure talent? Even he will be aware that he'll always be referred to as the son of a billionaire who is in F1 because he father literally owns the team and he's there through sheer nepotism. In that case, will he ever the credit?

I also read on Autosport Forums there was a clause in Perez' contract that if by the Italian GP he had less points than Stroll the team could terminate the contract. Hmmmmm, not dodgy at all.... :?

Then you have silly strategies that have gone against him and those two "positive" Covid19 tests, it's all a little bit suspicious.

Billionaires like Lawrence Stroll are rarely on the losing side.
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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by BMWSauber84 »

PT03 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:30 pm
Perez had Telmex backing from the early days of his career, when he first started at Sauber who becomes their main sponsor ...you guessed it Telmex. so you could call them his rich Daddy. Stroll has won more Championships he has competed in than Perez, so why does Perez deserve to be in F1 more than Stroll? ...........
If you honestly think Lance won his junior championships on an equal playing field to everyone else then I don't know what to say to you.

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Re: Its Official: Sebastian Vettel to Aston Martin in 2021 (merged)

Post by mikeyg123 »

PT03 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:30 pm
Perez had Telmex backing from the early days of his career, when he first started at Sauber who becomes their main sponsor ...you guessed it Telmex. so you could call them his rich Daddy. Stroll has won more Championships he has competed in than Perez, so why does Perez deserve to be in F1 more than Stroll? ...........
By virtue of his performances in F1. Had Stroll come in and performed like Perez did in 2011 and 2012 then nobody would be saying he doesn't belong. But he didn't.

Even pre F1 - Stroll was basically bought a championship in the 4th tier and Perez finished 2nd in the 2nd tier.

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Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by schumilegend »

I used to be a fan of Vettel but the last few years have been absolutely unprecedented poor level of performance for a multiple world champion...If Stroll beats him it will be the end and quite frankly people would hesitate to put him even in top 20 of all time which is quite telling given only a grand total of 3 drivers have more championships than him!...Never before have i seen a driver fall over so easily to strong team mates like Herr Vettel

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by pokerman »

We already have a similar thread to this, my answer will be no because he's better than Stroll.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Mort Canard »

Well, he is going to have to look a lot better compared to Lance than he has compared to Charles.

Seems to be a bunch of folks wondering if Team Red is giving Seb the same kind of car they are providing to Charles.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Mort Canard wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Seems to be a bunch of folks wondering if Team Red is giving Seb the same kind of car they are providing to Charles.
When a driver is on his way out of a team, certain things begin to happen. He is barred from technical briefings, so that he may not carry any new "secrets" to any other team. Thus, a driver may not be aware of any trick software settings, or new parts that may allow them flexibility in their own driving or tactics.

Even a powerhouse team like Ferrari have limited resources at a track. They have a limited number of personnel and parts at the track. Those assets are distributed within the team, and obviously, the driver with more points, or in favor with management is allocated the better people and the best parts. The same goes with strategy, for example, who goes last out in Q3, a decided benefit at some tracks.

One needs to be aware that to any team (with the obvious exception of Stroll), drivers are a disposable commodity. They are employees of the team, and they are there to serve the interest of the team, not vice-versa.

Or as Ricciardo succinctly stated "not bad for a number two driver".
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:30 pm
Mort Canard wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Seems to be a bunch of folks wondering if Team Red is giving Seb the same kind of car they are providing to Charles.
When a driver is on his way out of a team, certain things begin to happen. He is barred from technical briefings, so that he may not carry any new "secrets" to any other team. Thus, a driver may not be aware of any trick software settings, or new parts that may allow them flexibility in their own driving or tactics.

Even a powerhouse team like Ferrari have limited resources at a track. They have a limited number of personnel and parts at the track. Those assets are distributed within the team, and obviously, the driver with more points, or in favor with management is allocated the better people and the best parts. The same goes with strategy, for example, who goes last out in Q3, a decided benefit at some tracks.

One needs to be aware that to any team (with the obvious exception of Stroll), drivers are a disposable commodity. They are employees of the team, and they are there to serve the interest of the team, not vice-versa.

Or as Ricciardo succinctly stated "not bad for a number two driver".
Think you mean Webber


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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by pokerman »

Charles LeBrad wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:20 am
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:30 pm
Mort Canard wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Seems to be a bunch of folks wondering if Team Red is giving Seb the same kind of car they are providing to Charles.
When a driver is on his way out of a team, certain things begin to happen. He is barred from technical briefings, so that he may not carry any new "secrets" to any other team. Thus, a driver may not be aware of any trick software settings, or new parts that may allow them flexibility in their own driving or tactics.

Even a powerhouse team like Ferrari have limited resources at a track. They have a limited number of personnel and parts at the track. Those assets are distributed within the team, and obviously, the driver with more points, or in favor with management is allocated the better people and the best parts. The same goes with strategy, for example, who goes last out in Q3, a decided benefit at some tracks.

One needs to be aware that to any team (with the obvious exception of Stroll), drivers are a disposable commodity. They are employees of the team, and they are there to serve the interest of the team, not vice-versa.

Or as Ricciardo succinctly stated "not bad for a number two driver".
Think you mean Webber

I'm not sure that Webber was really a #2 driver as much as he liked to play the victim.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by vorlon24 »

Hopefully - his 4 WDCs are flattering - he's nothing more than average, and Ferrari have finally woken up to that fact

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

We're seeing what we already knew, Vettel can't extract top level performance out of a car with rear instability, we saw the same thing last year between France and Singapore when Ferrari went that way with development.

If the Racing Point has the same 'pointy' characteristics next year then he will struggle. I doubt Stroll will beat him regardless as I think an off-pace Vettel is still faster than Stroll, but it could be close.

Racing Point however follows the Mercedes philosophy closely, shall we say, so I think the car will be much better suited to the way he likes to drive and we will see a better performance from him, time will tell though.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Harpo »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:01 pm
he's better than Stroll.
This, we'll know only next year... From what we see, it's not a proven fact (yet ?).
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by pokerman »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.
Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by DOLOMITE »

I think the nails are already in, it's a question of whether next year he can stop being buried alive.

I don't think he can unless the Aston is a race winner and he starts going to toe to toe with Hamilton and wins out. Beating Stroll won't be enough, however big the margin.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Charles LeBrad wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:20 am
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:30 pm

Or as Ricciardo succinctly stated "not bad for a number two driver".
Think you mean Webber

Thank you Charles, I stand corrected.
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Schermerhorn »

My 2 cents

Daddy Stroll is going to use Vettel to build up the team, attract the sponsors and help sell the Aston Martin brand. I think he'll be give a political-free environment and he'll do well. Lance is too young to lead the team and Vettel will be seen as a mentor to him to teach him the ropes before he retires or maybe goes off to Mercedes. By then I am guessing that Aston Martin will become a winner and Lance will be ready to challenge at the front.

Afterall they've just put $40m into this latest move (buying Perez out, losing his sponsors and covering Vettel's salary). They REALLY wanted Vettel and they'll understand that the best way to move forward is to keep Vettel in a stable environment.

My question is this though;

Will the car be good enough?

Have the existing Tracing Point drivers gotten the most out of the RP20?

How much better will a 2019 Mercedes W10 clone be than a 2021 Red Bull/Ferrari/Mclaren etc?

How much further can they develop this car?

How good will a 2019 W10 clone + 2021 Mercedes power plant be?

Has the car reached its ceiling or is there more to come from it?

They will be using a 2 year old car afterall.....
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Schermerhorn »

vorlon24 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:22 pm
Hopefully - his 4 WDCs are flattering - he's nothing more than average, and Ferrari have finally woken up to that fact
You don't win 4 WDC's by accident.

I'm not sold on Charlie either. I think time will prove that he isn't the team later people make him out to be and Sainz will be much closer to him than people realise....
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by FrogInARaceCar »

To repair his reputation, Vettel needs to trounce Stroll in a way that Perez has not come close to. Assuming Stroll's results in the Racing Point/Aston Martin are about where they are this year, that means consistently competing with Verstappen for the third podium spot and maybe winning a race or two when Mercedes have a bad day.

Verstappen sometimes makes Albon look like he is driving an entirely different car. Vettel needs that kind of margin against Stroll.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Schermerhorn »

FrogInARaceCar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:55 am
To repair his reputation, Vettel needs to trounce Stroll in a way that Perez has not come close to. Assuming Stroll's results in the Racing Point/Aston Martin are about where they are this year, that means consistently competing with Verstappen for the third podium spot and maybe winning a race or two when Mercedes have a bad day.

Verstappen sometimes makes Albon look like he is driving an entirely different car. Vettel needs that kind of margin against Stroll.
I don't think Vettel has that type of reserve in him....or whether Lawrence would allow his son to be humiliated like that. Afterall, Lance is the one being groomed to be a winner once Racing Point learn how to operate with an experienced/WDC driver like Vettel.

F1 is a confidence game...if you lose it, it's hard to recover it unless you are someone like Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg (to a lesser extent) where everything is a battle to overcome and a challenge to prove everyone wrong. I don't see that dog fight in Vettel. He's purely a front runner who races off and doesn't look back.
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by FrogInARaceCar »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:23 pm
FrogInARaceCar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:55 am
To repair his reputation, Vettel needs to trounce Stroll in a way that Perez has not come close to. Assuming Stroll's results in the Racing Point/Aston Martin are about where they are this year, that means consistently competing with Verstappen for the third podium spot and maybe winning a race or two when Mercedes have a bad day.

Verstappen sometimes makes Albon look like he is driving an entirely different car. Vettel needs that kind of margin against Stroll.
I don't think Vettel has that type of reserve in him....or whether Lawrence would allow his son to be humiliated like that. Afterall, Lance is the one being groomed to be a winner once Racing Point learn how to operate with an experienced/WDC driver like Vettel.

F1 is a confidence game...if you lose it, it's hard to recover it unless you are someone like Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg (to a lesser extent) where everything is a battle to overcome and a challenge to prove everyone wrong. I don't see that dog fight in Vettel. He's purely a front runner who races off and doesn't look back.
Seb's done it before. He had a tough final year at Red Bull against Danny Ric in 2014 but when he joined Ferrari in 2015 he was much better than Kimi. Maybe he can do that again, maybe he can't, but he has got experience of bouncing back from a tough season.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.
Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
You honestly think if there is only one update package available in Sochi it will go to Perez?

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 am
vorlon24 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:22 pm
Hopefully - his 4 WDCs are flattering - he's nothing more than average, and Ferrari have finally woken up to that fact
You don't win 4 WDC's by accident.

I'm not sold on Charlie either. I think time will prove that he isn't the team later people make him out to be and Sainz will be much closer to him than people realise....
Well, if Leclerc turns out to be rather ordinary- good than exceptionally-good, this would harm Vettel's reputation even more.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 am
vorlon24 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:22 pm
Hopefully - his 4 WDCs are flattering - he's nothing more than average, and Ferrari have finally woken up to that fact
You don't win 4 WDC's by accident.

I'm not sold on Charlie either. I think time will prove that he isn't the team later people make him out to be and Sainz will be much closer to him than people realise....
That really will reflect badly on Vettel. Personally I don't see it. I've seen too much from Leclerc for him to be a journey man driver like Sainz.

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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Exediron »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:09 pm
Well, if Leclerc turns out to be rather ordinary- good than exceptionally-good, this would harm Vettel's reputation even more.
If Leclerc turns out to be ordinary it will shatter everything we think we know about driver rankings in F1. It will also imply that Vettel is just outright bad -- a below average driver, not just a weak world champion.

Luckily, it doesn't make any sense. If Sainz is closer to Leclerc than we expect, any rational person will realize that's because Sainz is underrated.
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pokerman
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.
Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
You honestly think if there is only one update package available in Sochi it will go to Perez?
It's the updates ear marked for Perez's car, they needn't need to tell the world that Stroll's car was better last time out.
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2018: 7th place

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mikeyg123
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:46 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.
Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
You honestly think if there is only one update package available in Sochi it will go to Perez?
It's the updates ear marked for Perez's car, they needn't need to tell the world that Stroll's car was better last time out.

You can't honestly believe Perez will get the updates and Stroll not if only one set are available. It's not going to happen earmarked for Perez's car or not.

If the team hadn't told the press about the upgrades then surely Perez would have. It sounds better coming from the team and I'm sure they know that.

pokerman
Posts: 35399
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:00 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:46 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
Certainly Stroll getting the RP updates in Mugello while Perez did not might make Seb raise his eyebrow. That said I'm sure he won't have accepted any deal that made him play second fiddle.
Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
You honestly think if there is only one update package available in Sochi it will go to Perez?
It's the updates ear marked for Perez's car, they needn't need to tell the world that Stroll's car was better last time out.

You can't honestly believe Perez will get the updates and Stroll not if only one set are available. It's not going to happen earmarked for Perez's car or not.

If the team hadn't told the press about the upgrades then surely Perez would have. It sounds better coming from the team and I'm sure they know that.
It's not going to look good then if Perez doesn't get the upgrades after they've told us he will get the upgrades bearing in mind that you're adamant that we will find out anyway.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

mikeyg123
Posts: 17897
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:13 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:00 pm
pokerman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:46 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 pm

Perez is getting the updates in Sochi whilst Stroll's updates got somewhat mangled.
You honestly think if there is only one update package available in Sochi it will go to Perez?
It's the updates ear marked for Perez's car, they needn't need to tell the world that Stroll's car was better last time out.

You can't honestly believe Perez will get the updates and Stroll not if only one set are available. It's not going to happen earmarked for Perez's car or not.

If the team hadn't told the press about the upgrades then surely Perez would have. It sounds better coming from the team and I'm sure they know that.
It's not going to look good then if Perez doesn't get the upgrades after they've told us he will get the upgrades bearing in mind that you're adamant that we will find out anyway.
If it comes to it they'll just say there is only one set and Stroll is ahead in the championship. Even I'm not convinced that in itself is unfair. (Of course I don't believe for a second Stroll is ahead in the championship fairly but that's another matter.) It's obvious if they've only got one set Stroll gets them. He did in Mugello I don't see what has changed for Sochi.

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Invade
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by Invade »

Otmar said it will be tricky to have the upgrades for both cars in Sochi given Stroll's accident to SKY. You might as well get your bet in for another weekend where Stroll outperforms Perez. ;)

WHoff78
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm

Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by WHoff78 »

It’s funny on here how often some say that anyone could win the titles in the Mercedes, arguably more common between 2014-16. While there is some truth in that many would as the lead driver, I’ve always felt that things have looked better for Mercedes because in my opinion they had both the fastest car and the fastest driver over that period. Verstappen may sway that opinion if we one day get a better comparison between the two but it’s just to hard to be certain while they currently operate in such different environments, and with different pressures and goals. Those who are of the belief that the deficits were the other way round and Hamilton perhaps lacked on average a tenth or two to the likes of Vettel and other top drivers, would obviously believe that the Mercedes is even quicker.

However, I think that Vettel is a much better example that you don’t have to be the best to take titles if you are in the right car with a weaker teammate. Next season will be interesting. I think that Vettel will be faster than Stroll because I think he is significantly better driver. But I also expect that it will give us another comparison where Vettel is not given preferential treatment. Would expect the relative difference to be more like Hamilton-Bottas, Norris-Sainz or even Perez-Stroll this season; rather than the gaps we see between Verstappen-Albon or LeClerc-Vettel.

schumilegend
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Re: Could next year be Vettel's final nail in the coffin?

Post by schumilegend »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:38 pm
We're seeing what we already knew, Vettel can't extract top level performance out of a car with rear instability, we saw the same thing last year between France and Singapore when Ferrari went that way with development.

If the Racing Point has the same 'pointy' characteristics next year then he will struggle. I doubt Stroll will beat him regardless as I think an off-pace Vettel is still faster than Stroll, but it could be close.
This isn't true at all...Contrary Vettel always likes a pointy car..part of the reason he destroyed Bourdais in Toro Rosso and Webber in the red bull..Bourdais even acknowledged how he couldnt cope with a unstable rear but Seb could control it

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