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Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
by Schermerhorn
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
by Asphalt_World
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
He couldn't pass so dropped back to attempt a fastest lap.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
by j man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:02 pm
j man wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:00 pm
The problem here is the use of a tyre barrier. Modern circuits haven't used them for years for this reason.
Loads of circuits use then!
Fair enough, my impression was that they had been replaced by TecPro barriers, particularly in places where crashes are most likely to happen. I had thought that the newer circuits use them universally.
Anyway with TecPro barriers you don't have this problem, they are much easier to rebuild after a crash.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:45 pm
by Bacus
Fiki wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:41 pm
Bacus wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:37 pm
Invade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:35 pm
Bacus wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:25 pm
I think you cand defent much easier on outside in T1, you can brake much later and use the camber of the corner to stick the car around...
Almost everyone who defended on inside there lost the position.
Yeh but I was hoping Ricciardo would (fairly) block the outside forcing Albon to try his pass on the inside in which perhaps Ricciardo can stay side by side and have the inside of the following corner. Unreasonable?
I was hoping the same, that should work.
They didn't figure it out yet, probably next time here they will know how to defend in that corner.
It depends on who is ahead at the apex, as according to Charlie Whiting, that driver is allowed to run the other off the track on the outside.
Yes, but less on this corner. The one who runs on the outside can carry much more speed (as we've seen) and usually its easily alongside, and given the camber of the corner and the width no chance of any 'runing off track' - that usually its done in tighter situations (and its debatable).
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:47 pm
by Asphalt_World
I wonder if Lewis will get in a spot of bother for wearing that t-shirt on the podium. Doesn't bother me, but you know what things can be like!!!
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:47 pm
by mikeyg123
Politicising the podium usually comes with a huge fine. Hamilton can at least afford to pay it.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:48 pm
by Invade
Quite a bit of recent evidence suggests Bottas is close to Hamilton's race pace.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:56 pm
by da4an1qu1
I started a thread on the politics. It's entitled and distasteful.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
by Johnson
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
He couldn't pass so dropped back to attempt a fastest lap.
He didn’t, he started the last lap 2 seconds behind and dropped to about 5.5 at the end. He just slowed at the end.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
by Invade
9 races, 3 DNFs for Max Emilian Verstappen.
That's quite poor.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
by wolfticket
Amazing eventful race, but make the most of it because I doubt we'll be back here in a hurry. I'm not convinced the track is really suited to modern F1.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:58 pm
by Johnson
Invade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:48 pm
Quite a bit of recent evidence suggests Bottas is close to Hamilton's race pace.
He looked it today but we will only know the answer to that if Max is in the mix pushing them both. One major weakness was tyre life for Bottas again today.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 pm
by Johnson
Invade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
9 races, 3 DNFs for Max Emilian Verstappen.
That's quite poor.
Outside chance of the title went today, he had an outside chance if Hamilton caught COVID or something.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 pm
by Jezza13
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:33 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:24 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:18 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:11 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm
Why would you want to lose loads of racing laps when you don't have to? Everyone pitted anyway. If it wasn't for the standing start the red flag wouldn't actually make a difference to the race.
Because a red flag should only be used when it's impossible to for the cars to continue circulating safely under any circumstances.
Red flags shouldn't be used as a tool to keep the race entertaining or prevent it from being boring. Right here they've used the red flag like the SC. It's just become a tool to keep the race exciting & not just a safety tool.
If yellow flags can be used, use them. If the VSC can be used, use them. If the SC can be used, use it. If all else fails, red flag the race.
But it's not being used to make racing more exciting.
It's being used so we actually have some racing at all.
And that's my point. It wasn't used as it should be. It's a safety tool, not a competition tool.
Why do you think the safety car was introduced? It wasn't for safety...
As far as I know it was introduced to bunch the cars after an incident to allow track marshals to do their thing safely while keeping the race going. It was a intermediate between yellow flags & stopping the race, but never the less there's a difference between introducing something to perform a task & changing the use of something already in place?
Before Leclers accident last weekend, when was the last time a race was stopped because a car went into a tyre barrier & the driver jumped out perfectly fine?
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
by Johnson
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:06 pm
by A_Game_A_Day
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:21 pm
It's taken a long time, but this is much better from Albon.
Though the least, in the circumstances, and probably most too that could be expected of him.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:06 pm
by Asphalt_World
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
He couldn't pass so dropped back to attempt a fastest lap.
He didn’t, he started the last lap 2 seconds behind and dropped to about 5.5 at the end. He just slowed at the end.
Sorry. I thought you meant a little earlier. I guess he just cruised to a safe finish as he was never going to get first from that point.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
by mikeyg123
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:33 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:24 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:18 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:11 pm
Because a red flag should only be used when it's impossible to for the cars to continue circulating safely under any circumstances.
Red flags shouldn't be used as a tool to keep the race entertaining or prevent it from being boring. Right here they've used the red flag like the SC. It's just become a tool to keep the race exciting & not just a safety tool.
If yellow flags can be used, use them. If the VSC can be used, use them. If the SC can be used, use it. If all else fails, red flag the race.
But it's not being used to make racing more exciting.
It's being used so we actually have some racing at all.
And that's my point. It wasn't used as it should be. It's a safety tool, not a competition tool.
Why do you think the safety car was introduced? It wasn't for safety...
As far as I know it was introduced to bunch the cars after an incident to allow track marshals to do their thing safely while keeping the race going. It was a intermediate between yellow flags & stopping the race, but never the less there's a difference between introducing something to perform a task & changing the use of something already in place?
Before Leclers accident last weekend, when was the last time a race was stopped because a car went into a tyre barrier & the driver jumped out perfectly fine?
And why is it beneficial to have a stage between yellow flags and having to stop the race?
What i'm saying is that the safety car was introduced for sporting reasons not safety reasons. It was introduced to keep the race running so there wasn't loads of waiting around.
So given that, in a situation like this why would it be better to have the safety car and lose loads of laps than use the red flag and not lose loads of laps?
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
by Rockie
So did Ferrari and Leclerc set the car up for qualifying?
As he was eating through the tyres like no other car and their blushes were spared by the last red flag.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
by Asphalt_World
da4an1qu1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I started a thread on the politics. It's entitled and distasteful.
Fine, and I'm sure he'll get a fine. Not sure too many of us are that bothered. I'm certainly not.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:09 pm
by wolfticket
Strong race from Raikkonen. Supposedly there was damage after the (first
) first lap incident. His pace for the final stint in order to only lose one place from the 5 second penalty was really good.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:11 pm
by Rockie
da4an1qu1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I started a thread on the politics. It's entitled and distasteful.
You being more upset about this, than the reason he has to wear the tshirt in the first place speaks more about you than Hamilton.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:12 pm
by Invade
Rockie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
So did Ferrari and Leclerc set the car up for qualifying?
As he was eating through the tyres like no other car and their blushes were spared by the last red flag.
Maybe, and hoping that it would be as hard to pass cars here as initially predicted?
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:14 pm
by da4an1qu1
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
da4an1qu1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I started a thread on the politics. It's entitled and distasteful.
Fine, and I'm sure he'll get a fine. Not sure too many of us are that bothered. I'm certainly not.
I am very bothered by it. I can't talk to how many are.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:20 pm
by Asphalt_World
da4an1qu1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
da4an1qu1 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:56 pm
I started a thread on the politics. It's entitled and distasteful.
Fine, and I'm sure he'll get a fine. Not sure too many of us are that bothered. I'm certainly not.
I am very bothered by it. I can't talk to how many are.
Person doesn't want politics brought in to F1.
Same person creates thread to discuss in on an F1 forum.
Current scoreline:
Lewis 1-0 Person
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:22 pm
by da4an1qu1
Mod Edit: Post deleted for Off Topic
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:27 pm
by Rockie
Mod Edit: Deleted Post for being off topic.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:35 pm
by Mod Yellow
Guys, there is a whole topic in the Off Topic section of the forum to discuss BLM and anything surrounding it, please take this discussion there.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:54 pm
by Schermerhorn
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
He couldn't pass so dropped back to attempt a fastest lap.
But he crossed the line going into the last lap less than 2 seconds behind and then ended up being almost 5 seconds behind.
Maybe his heart just gave up?
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:57 pm
by Schermerhorn
wolfticket wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:57 pm
Amazing eventful race, but make the most of it because I doubt we'll be back here in a hurry. I'm not convinced the track is really suited to modern F1.
I loved it....the gravel traps are something that needs to be brought back into F1 so the drivers are properly sh*tting themselves if they push too hard.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:58 pm
by Fiki
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:33 pm
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:24 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:18 pm
But it's not being used to make racing more exciting.
It's being used so we actually have some racing at all.
And that's my point. It wasn't used as it should be. It's a safety tool, not a competition tool.
Why do you think the safety car was introduced? It wasn't for safety...
As far as I know it was introduced to bunch the cars after an incident to allow track marshals to do their thing safely while keeping the race going. It was a intermediate between yellow flags & stopping the race, but never the less there's a difference between introducing something to perform a task & changing the use of something already in place?
Before Leclers accident last weekend, when was the last time a race was stopped because a car went into a tyre barrier & the driver jumped out perfectly fine?
And why is it beneficial to have a stage between yellow flags and having to stop the race?
What i'm saying is that the safety car was introduced for sporting reasons not safety reasons. It was introduced to keep the race running so there wasn't loads of waiting around.
So given that, in a situation like this why would it be better to have the safety car and lose loads of laps than use the red flag and not lose loads of laps?
I fail to see which sporting reasons could have been served by suspending racing, but keeping the laps counting down. The reason the Spectacle Car was introduced was the broadcasting window. Running longer than the satellite time booked was supposedly costly - imagine that in a sport that pays a number of drivers obscene amounts of money.
Once it was seen that some people didn't mind seeing hard work by a driver undone by bunching up and falsifying the outcome, it really did become a Spectacle Car.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:12 pm
by pokerman
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:58 pm
Invade wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:48 pm
Quite a bit of recent evidence suggests Bottas is close to Hamilton's race pace.
He looked it today but we will only know the answer to that if Max is in the mix pushing them both. One major weakness was tyre life for Bottas again today.
I didn't really see that, by Keeping up with Hamilton, Bottas burnt through his tyres which took away the option of running different tyres for the last stint, when both went for fastest laps near the end on soft tyres, Hamilton went 6 tenths faster.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
by pokerman
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:21 pm
by pokerman
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:54 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:44 pm
Schermerhorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm
Why did Bottas drop back to nearly 5 seconds behind Lewis on the last race?
He couldn't pass so dropped back to attempt a fastest lap.
But he crossed the line going into the last lap less than 2 seconds behind and then ended up being almost 5 seconds behind.
Maybe his heart just gave up?
Hamilton dropped in the fastest lap of the race on the penultimate lap 8 tenths quicker than Bottas managed and then that was all she wrote for Bottas.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm
by mikeyg123
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
The powers that be have spoken -
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/13/for ... art-crash/
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:29 pm
by pokerman
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
The powers that be have spoken -
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/13/for ... art-crash/
That sounds like that they don't really know who was responsible.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:30 pm
by Asphalt_World
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
The powers that be have spoken -
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/13/for ... art-crash/
Russell appeared to be up with a Renault, just on the other side of the track, when the mayhem started. I don't think he was able to accelerate and then brake any more than other cars.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:41 pm
by mikeyg123
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:29 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
The powers that be have spoken -
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/13/for ... art-crash/
That sounds like that they don't really know who was responsible.
TBF they can look at the traces and see who was doing things they shouldn't even if they can't work out which one doing things they shouldn't caused the accident. In a way I suppose it shouldn't actually matter.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:50 pm
by pokerman
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:41 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:29 pm
mikeyg123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm
Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:05 pm
It seems it was Russell that caused restart mayhem, he was P11 and left a huge gap to p10. Accelerated into it, which others behind followed and then Russell slowed. Really poor driving
Which you're not supposed to do, he needs points on his license.
The powers that be have spoken -
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/13/for ... art-crash/
That sounds like that they don't really know who was responsible.
TBF they can look at the traces and see who was doing things they shouldn't even if they can't work out which one doing things they shouldn't caused the accident. In a way I suppose it shouldn't actually matter.
Some drivers were maybe just reacting to what the driver in front was doing, they brake then they have to brake, they speed up then they have to speed up.
Re: 2020 Tuscan GP Race thread
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:09 pm
by Asphalt_World
We all know about the situations on motorways where a car up ahead, often a mile away, brakes for some reason. The car behind brakes a little more, the car behind even more and so on. Many hundreds of metres further back. we're all stamping on the brakes wondering what the heck is going on. It's the concertina affect.
I think this is similar to what happened here. No one person responsible but the knock-on effect down the grid was rather huge.