planetf1.com

Sebastian is officially headed to Aston Martin in 2021.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/sebastian ... on-martin/

May the car keep him at the sharp end of the grid!

It was inevitable the moment Checo announced he's leaving.

A bittersweet for me. Happy for Vettel but sad for Checo.

Thought this deserved a separate thread.

Not sure I understand this. Perez has been solid for years, and is to be replaced by Vettel who really hasn't shone for a while now. An expensive choice which I can't really see the benefit in. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but always interesting nonetheless to see a multiple WDC driver up against a new team mate.

Would be a shame to see Checo without a seat next year, but looking at it from Vettel's perspective however it's a positve move car wise.

Smart move by Vettel, remains to be seen if it was a smart move by RP. Hopefully Checo can find another seat.

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

I genuinely think that the team will step up if KM and RG are replaced with new drivers, it's almost like they've become stagnant with the same line-up.

Sometimes all it takes is some new faces and knowing what SP and NH can do, it must give some extra motivation.

A very good move for both parties. A happier and more relaxed Vettel is still an extremely good driver. Aaron Martin clearly have big ambition, and a season alongside Vettel will allow them to make a decision on whether Lance has long term potential or if he needs to be jettisoned.

So, Vettel is the new driving coach for Stroll Jr. Congratulations!

Well I didn't see that one coming. I'm not usually that much into liveries, but I wonder how the car will look.

Shocking decision IMO.

After all that Checo did for that team? He practically saved them from going bust and saving jobs in the process.
Perez is better than Stroll but daddy's big buck keep him in a seat. Vettel hasn't performed lately having been outclassed by his rookie (in the Ferrari) team mate last year and this year too.

What's the angle here? is it that Aston Martin need a 4 time WDC to front their campaign?

Lets hope Perez can get a seat elsewhere.

Problem being there are no good seats available for Perez - unless Hamilton shocks everyone and doesn’t sign with Mercedes.

The best he can hope for seems to be that Haas finally change one or both drivers (still shocked that they didn’t do it last year) but that’s not exactly an encouraging opening for him with Ferrari (lack of) power.

Gutted for him. Someone I know said “That’s F1 for you” but it isn’t. All about Lance being the son of the owner. I suppose the COVID positive accompanied by those photos didn’t help, but I suspect the writing was on the wall for him before then.

On the one hand it would be good to have Perez on the grid as he's a quite handy driver, but on the other hand he's had a fair shot at it without setting the world alight so his departure would also open a door for new drivers.

I'm pretty excited to see what Vettel can do in the Aston. The honeymoon period at Ferrari was over some time ago, and to be honest they dropped him at the right time. Sainz must be wondering what the hell he's signed up to.

I can't help but wonder if the pressure to emulate Schumacher got to Seb. He had one bad season at RBR and then performed as expected at Ferrari during his first few seasons there. It was only when he got himself into contention for the title did the mistakes start to creep in, which I believe can only be attributed to the pressure. He's a 4 x WDC and you suddenly don't become a terrible driver overnight.

Maybe he's just a driver who can't adapt as well to different handling characteristics like Lewis or Daniel (or Charles for that matter). I'm intrigued to see what he can do against Stroll but I expect he'll have him well-beaten in 2021. Having a new project will take the heat off him for the short-term (at least in terms of challenging for the title) and I guess that can be a good thing for his mental state.

Am I that old that the second thing I do when facing this sort of news is nit-picking (the first one being smiling perplexedly).
Am I the only one (once more...) to think that the withdrawal of complaints in the RP/Ferrari brawl, just days ago, has something to do with this ?

Harpo wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

Am I that old that the second thing I do when facing this sort of news is nit-picking (the first one being smiling perplexedly).
Am I the only one (once more...) to think that the withdrawal of complaints in the RP/Ferrari brawl, just days ago, has something to do with this ?

Unlikely I imagine. Vettel wasn’t contracted to Ferrari so no need for RP and Ferrari to discuss.

Ferrari had said that they’d withdraw their appeal if they the regulations on car copying was changed for next year. They were and they withdrew their appeal. I think it’s that simple.

RP probably got word that Ferrari were going to withdraw their appeal and decided to withdraw theirs too.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

Haas will jump from one of the worst driver pairings to one of the best. The two unsung heroes of F1 finding a place at Haas would be a cool story. Let's hope they've the car to back it up in 2022.

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:29 am

It was inevitable the moment Checo announced he's leaving.

A bittersweet for me. Happy for Vettel but sad for Checo.

I think it was inevitable when Szafnauer wouldn't give a direct answer when asked at I think it was Silverstone if both their current drivers would return in 2021.

I think Perez has every right to feel a tad bitter here. As much as I feel Stroll has often copped a bit too much criticism, I don't think too many people would argue that he's not a better driver than Perez, despite what the championship standings say. I think it's also safe to say that all things being equal, if Lawrence didn't own the team then it'd be young Lance that'd be mothballing the pink race suit post Abu Dhabi.

Hopefully Perez can get a gig in some other team. If I were a betting man, I'd say he'd almost be odds on for him & Slim's Peso's to end up in Grosjean's seat at Haas.

Happy that Vettel's going to hang around for a while yet. Would've been a poor way for a 4x WC to bail out of the sport.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

I don't think it would be sensible of Haas not to keep at least one of their drivers. Their current drivers are a more inportent part of the team than at other teams in a way because the team are pretty new and inexperienced. Despite what people think of Grosjean, Unless he's clearly significantly worse than Magnussen this year, I think it is likely he will remain as he's been with the team since they came into F1 and knows them really well and they really value his feedback. He may not be the best driver, but I think he's possibly one of the best development drivers. I think Perez is also good at this, but he will be new to the team.

deleted post

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:28 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

I don't think it would be sensible of Haas not to keep at least one of their drivers. Their current drivers are a more inportent part of the team than at other teams in a way because the team are pretty new and inexperienced. Despite what people think of Grosjean, Unless he's clearly significantly worse than Magnussen this year, I think it is likely he will remain as he's been with the team since they came into F1 and knows them really well and they really value his feedback. He may not be the best driver, but I think he's possibly one of the best development drivers. I think Perez is also good at this, but he will be new to the team.

Grosjean is 35 next year and still as clumsy as hell, at least KMag doesn't rack up all the errors.

The change of naming from Racing Point to Aston Martin is news, but not headline stuff. It barely caused a ripple in January when the name change was announced. But bringing in Vettel, Aston Martin have succeeded in bringing in massive interest and publicity.

But sadly, Ferrari can be very toxic to anyone not delivering results. Very good, even a few ex-WDC's have left under a dark cloud from Ferrari.

Vettel is still Vettel, his abilities and talent has not disappeared, he just needs to get his mojo back.

And interestingly enough, we may have already glimpsed a preview of the new AMR livery. Back in May when the racing world shut down, sim racing became the new platform, and one series was The Race All-Star Series where AMR participated.

I knew I'd remembered someone respecting Seb, I agree by the way

Fat Albert wrote:I'd like to see Sebastien Vettel win a race starting from 13th or lower so that we could finally have some evidence that he's not the youngest driver ever to have a seat in the fastest car in F1 for four consecutive years

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

And WHAT exactly has Hulk done better than either of them?!??
Hulk had his day as well and failed to impress MIGHTILY. He'd have the odd weekend whenre he'd qualify well and do exceedingly well in races initially and then Faaaaaaaaaaaade rather abruptly and finish way back in the order. I like the guy and think he's a talented driver, but so too are Grosjean and Magnussen, and Magnussen has had excellent moments and he's gritty and puts up fights before he'll finally yield position.

Grosjean is one that baffles me because he was so good for so long and shows signs of brilliance but they're too brief and ends up making too many mistakes.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:22 pm

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

And WHAT exactly has Hulk done better than either of them?!??
Hulk had his day as well and failed to impress MIGHTILY. He'd have the odd weekend whenre he'd qualify well and do exceedingly well in races initially and then Faaaaaaaaaaaade rather abruptly and finish way back in the order. I like the guy and think he's a talented driver, but so too are Grosjean and Magnussen, and Magnussen has had excellent moments and he's gritty and puts up fights before he'll finally yield position.

Grosjean is one that baffles me because he was so good for so long and shows signs of brilliance but they're too brief and ends up making too many mistakes.

My main point is Haas need different, experienced drivers just to inject some freshness into the team. They're going nowhere with the current line-up. If they were to keep one driver then it would have to be Magnussen.

Fiki wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:05 am

Well I didn't see that one coming. I'm not usually that much into liveries, but I wonder how the car will look.

What color do you get when you mix British Racing Green with Pepto-Bismol Pink?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:13 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:28 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

I don't think it would be sensible of Haas not to keep at least one of their drivers. Their current drivers are a more inportent part of the team than at other teams in a way because the team are pretty new and inexperienced. Despite what people think of Grosjean, Unless he's clearly significantly worse than Magnussen this year, I think it is likely he will remain as he's been with the team since they came into F1 and knows them really well and they really value his feedback. He may not be the best driver, but I think he's possibly one of the best development drivers. I think Perez is also good at this, but he will be new to the team.

Grosjean is 35 next year and still as clumsy as hell, at least KMag doesn't rack up all the errors.

He's been getting penalty points though. Grosjean still had 0. Most of Grosjean's mistakes in the past couple of years have only been small, hence not getting big penalties. Magnussen has made bigger mistakes than him.

moose22 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:12 am

Shocking decision IMO.

After all that Checo did for that team? He practically saved them from going bust and saving jobs in the process.
Perez is better than Stroll but daddy's big buck keep him in a seat. Vettel hasn't performed lately having been outclassed by his rookie (in the Ferrari) team mate last year and this year too.

What's the angle here? is it that Aston Martin need a 4 time WDC to front their campaign?

Lets hope Perez can get a seat elsewhere.

Perez has a contract until the end of 2022, so he will have been paid a good deal to relinquish it. I think Lawrence Stroll has ambitions to play on the big league ASAP, so he wants a proven winner. Perez may be good, but he's not convincingly beaten Stroll this year, so I doubt he has the talent to get to and stay on the top step of the podium. With a Merc engine, and Vettel's experience and (hopefully) rediscovered will to win, AM could start challenging Merc and Red Bull. However, another 'pink Mercedes' next year will not be good enough. They need to prove they can compete with their own ideas, which come 2022 maybe they will have the budget to do..

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:45 pm

F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:22 pm

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

And WHAT exactly has Hulk done better than either of them?!??
Hulk had his day as well and failed to impress MIGHTILY. He'd have the odd weekend whenre he'd qualify well and do exceedingly well in races initially and then Faaaaaaaaaaaade rather abruptly and finish way back in the order. I like the guy and think he's a talented driver, but so too are Grosjean and Magnussen, and Magnussen has had excellent moments and he's gritty and puts up fights before he'll finally yield position.

Grosjean is one that baffles me because he was so good for so long and shows signs of brilliance but they're too brief and ends up making too many mistakes.

My main point is Haas need different, experienced drivers just to inject some freshness into the team. They're going nowhere with the current line-up. If they were to keep one driver then it would have to be Magnussen.

This is one thing that the vast majority do say, but I don't understand why. Grosjean has had more experience in F1 as well as being with this team since they started. The team have clearly been grateful for some of his feedback last year regarding him discovering some of the problems with the setup and changing the teams approach on it. He had a shocking first half of 2018 (i'm not always defending Grosjean - I thought he was the worst on the grid at this stage), but from then on to the end of 2019, he was quite clearly the better of the two and improved a fair bit. Last year was really masked by Grosjean's luck. Possibly the worst luck of any drivers in the hybrid era. He retired 7 times and only one of which he could be partially blamed for - but so can magnussen. This was in Britain. Overall that year, had he had equal luck and didn't have a MGU-K faulure in Brazil, that likely will have got him 4th place or quite possibly 3rd had Sainz not pushed him off track. Without all this bad luck, he would have been quite comfortably ahead of Magnussen in the standings. Even just without the problem in Brazil will have been enough tie him with Magnussen despite having 7 retirements vs 3 for Magnussen.

This season, magnussen has been the better of the two so far, but I don't think there has been much in it and still would rate Grosjean as the better driver when also taking experience into account. So like I'm implying, if either go, I certainly think the opposite and that it will likely be Magnussen. But we can have our own views.

I agree with you there Hogweed, BUT I REEEALLY Like K-Mag's TENACITY a ton!!! LOL
I'd be ok with either of them staying.

Assuming the 3 teams stay roughly where they are then the lead midfield is going to be pretty sweet to watch...

Vettel vs Ricciardo vs Alonso vs Norris vs Ocon.

And if Ferrari can make a semi decent step with the engine then we can add Leclerc and Sainz into the mix on a regular basis as I'm sure they'll be there or thereabouts at some venues anyway.

I can't wait.

I'm expecting good things from Vettel next year. I'm a true believer in form and confidence, something that often seems to get overlooked in F1 whilst often being spoken about in other sports. If the car is decent, I don't see why he won't find a new start a reason for a return of confidence which in turn brings performances.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:29 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:17 am

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 am

Perez and Hulk to Haas - KMag and RoGro have had their day and time for some fresh impetus at Haas.

It'd be nice to see those two back together, and find out what the Haas cars are really capable of. We know Hulk and Perez can deliver in a decent midfield car; what about the Haas?

Haas will jump from one of the worst driver pairings to one of the best. The two unsung heroes of F1 finding a place at Haas would be a cool story. Let's hope they've the car to back it up in 2022.

Looking at their respective stints at McLaren, I cannot see indication that Magnussen is slower than Perez.

Perez was much better against Button than Magnussen. There is also the comparison to Hulkenberg using Palmer.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:13 pm

Perez was much better against Button than Magnussen. There is also the comparison to Hulkenberg using Palmer.

No, Magnussen beat Button in qualifying, Perez not. Yes, Perez was better points-wise, however, Magnussen was in his rookie season and made some costly rookie mistakes, whereas Perez was more experienced. Speedwise, Magnussen was more competitive to Button than Perez. You can give Perez more consistency - but then again it was Magnussen's rookie season ( you usually give rookies some slack - just not in the case of Magnussen ...).

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:30 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:13 pm

Perez was much better against Button than Magnussen. There is also the comparison to Hulkenberg using Palmer.

No, Magnussen beat Button in qualifying, Perez not. Yes, Perez was better points-wise, however, Magnussen was in his rookie season and made some costly rookie mistakes, whereas Perez was more experienced. Speedwise, Magnussen was more competitive to Button than Perez. You can give Perez more consistency - but then again it was Magnussen's rookie season ( you usually give rookies some slack - just not in the case of Magnussen ...)

That qualifying comparison is misleading, particularly since Button was never rated as a strong qualifier. Magnussen was hammered by Button 14-3 in races, which is even worse when you consider that he was usually starting ahead. He was beaten more than 2:1 in points despite Button recording one more DNF.

The Hulkenberg comparison is also very unflattering, as Mikey alludes. Magnussen looked slightly better than Palmer, but when Hulk showed up he absolutely demolished Palmer and showed him the door right out of F1.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:23 am

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:30 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:13 pm

Perez was much better against Button than Magnussen. There is also the comparison to Hulkenberg using Palmer.

No, Magnussen beat Button in qualifying, Perez not. Yes, Perez was better points-wise, however, Magnussen was in his rookie season and made some costly rookie mistakes, whereas Perez was more experienced. Speedwise, Magnussen was more competitive to Button than Perez. You can give Perez more consistency - but then again it was Magnussen's rookie season ( you usually give rookies some slack - just not in the case of Magnussen ...)

That qualifying comparison is misleading, particularly since Button was never rated as a strong qualifier. Magnussen was hammered by Button 14-3 in races, which is even worse when you consider that he was usually starting ahead. He was beaten more than 2:1 in points despite Button recording one more DNF.

The Hulkenberg comparison is also very unflattering, as Mikey alludes. Magnussen looked slightly better than Palmer, but when Hulk showed up he absolutely demolished Palmer and showed him the door right out of F1.

Well, talking about speed, qualifying is definitely less misleading than ahead-when-both-finished in the races. If you actually look into the races that season, you can see that it was rarely speed but mostly incidents and strategy - some of that Magnussen's fault ( rookie season), some of that not.
And if Button was not a strong qualifyer as you claim - well, what does that tell us about Perez who performed worse in that comparison despite more experience?

The Palmer-comparison is a stronger point, admitted. What is interesting is that Palmer was only ever beating Magnussen after the latter refused to sign a one-year extension with the team. Still, I rate the latter part of that season as Magnussen 's worst in F1.

Generally, I think that the Haas drivers are underestimated speedwise. I am skeptical that anyone except the absolute top drivers could do a better job here. The Haas looks more difficult to drive and less balanced and stable than any car on the grid which is driving up the rate of mistakes ( in Grosjean's case even more so).

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:30 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:13 pm

Perez was much better against Button than Magnussen. There is also the comparison to Hulkenberg using Palmer.

No, Magnussen beat Button in qualifying, Perez not. Yes, Perez was better points-wise, however, Magnussen was in his rookie season and made some costly rookie mistakes, whereas Perez was more experienced. Speedwise, Magnussen was more competitive to Button than Perez. You can give Perez more consistency - but then again it was Magnussen's rookie season ( you usually give rookies some slack - just not in the case of Magnussen ...).

Perez has always been fairy cakes in quali. If you just compare him to others using quali he looks like one of the worst guys out there.

I agree though Magnussen deserves some slack for it being his rookie season.

Why do some people give Stroll such a hard time? Stroll = there because Daddy's money .....maybe, but Perez = there because of Sponsors money- whats the big difference?

Generally, sponsorship is given because of racing talent, though there may be other additional reasons for the backing; Stroll on the other hand has backing regardless of his talent.