Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

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Asphalt_World
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Remmirath »

I disagree with the premise that casual viewers have to be attracted and maintained. Almost by definition they're not going to be retained, and chasing after them is a lot more likely to result in alienating fans than gaining a large audience.

Sprint races are not a good idea for F1. They work out fine in the lower categories, but I'd much prefer that grands prix stay grands prix. Beyond that, if every race gives a mixed up result, it's not longer mixed up and interesting because of that (see Formula E), it's simply expected. This result couldn't be surprising and special if it happened all the time. Yes, this year Mercedes has been so dominant that most races - at the front, there's still plenty of action in the midfield - have been processional, but I don't think sprint races would actually even fix that.

If the real problem is Mercedes domination, then it's the regulations that need to be looked at, not the race format.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Exediron »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
Sure, but qualifying isn't new. All teams arrive at each race weekend with an equal chance of winning with regard to the rules and regulations.
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Charles LeBrad
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
It’s true. The current system is pretty much “Let’s have Manchester United, Everton and Liverpool start the game with 2 goals, because of their history in the league. Also we’ll throw Manchester United an extra goal for being Manchester United”

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

Charles LeBrad wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
It’s true. The current system is pretty much “Let’s have Manchester United, Everton and Liverpool start the game with 2 goals, because of their history in the league. Also we’ll throw Manchester United an extra goal for being Manchester United”
No it isn't. Do the regulations give Mercedes an advantage when they turn up for a race weekend? No. The fact they have the best car is nobody's fault. They all follow the same regs.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
It's still earned and not given, if given then WDC leader would start on pole.
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Charles LeBrad
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 pm
Charles LeBrad wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:55 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:33 pm
Perhaps when the football team at the top of the Premier League plays the team at the bottom, the bottom team start the match a few goals ahead.
In all fairness, what we have now is a system where the top team would start a few goals ahead. Qualifying is probably too important in the current formula, but as long as it is so important someone is getting heavily favored based on where they started the race -- a condition that doesn't exist in any non-motor sport.
It’s true. The current system is pretty much “Let’s have Manchester United, Everton and Liverpool start the game with 2 goals, because of their history in the league. Also we’ll throw Manchester United an extra goal for being Manchester United”
No it isn't. Do the regulations give Mercedes an advantage when they turn up for a race weekend? No. The fact they have the best car is nobody's fault. They all follow the same regs.
Merc get more $$$ for their loyalty > Allows them to spend more on R&D than the others > Gives them an advantage when they turn up for a race weekend.

So, yeah it does

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Exediron »

Charles LeBrad wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:47 am
Merc get more $$$ for their loyalty > Allows them to spend more on R&D than the others > Gives them an advantage when they turn up for a race weekend.

So, yeah it does
Indeed. It's all fair from the moment you turn up at the race track, but the so-called historical and success-based bonuses to team payments mean that, indeed, the big teams are given essentially free goals before the start of the season. Money = speed, and they get more money.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by tootsie323 »

I'd argue a different comparison when it comes to football. The top teams have bigger spending power so they buy in the top players. It's not free goals; it's more the expectation that the top teams will win more often. Using a reverse grid format would be more like giving the top teams an initial goal deficit to overcome during the course of a match.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:07 am
I'd argue a different comparison when it comes to football. The top teams have bigger spending power so they buy in the top players. It's not free goals; it's more the expectation that the top teams will win more often. Using a reverse grid format would be more like giving the top teams an initial goal deficit to overcome during the course of a match.
Yeah I don't think they really get the concept, it's also weird they would be happy with pole being given to the last place in the WDC when it's not even given to whoever is in 1st place in the WDC, the qualifying system itself is somehow grossly unfair to people as opposed to not even having to earn such privilege.

Again cynical hat on once again, one of the posters suggesting this was also hoping that Hamlton would get replaced by Vettel at Mercedes for next season.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
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mikeyg123
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
How can qualifying be overpowered at the moment when it's basically always been the same, as the post you replied to says people watch for years then all of a sudden say I don't like that.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:47 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.
What has that go to do with qualifying, just put different cars at the front that can't be overtaken doesn't solve the issues that concern you.
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mikeyg123
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:47 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.
What has that go to do with qualifying, just put different cars at the front that can't be overtaken doesn't solve the issues that concern you.
If you put a faster car behind a slower car the chance for something exciting to happen is clearly increase.

mikeyg123
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
How can qualifying be overpowered at the moment when it's basically always been the same, as the post you replied to says people watch for years then all of a sudden say I don't like that.
It's not always been the same. We have never had a time where it is so difficult to follow a car in front, let alone pass and thus qualifying ahead is far more important now than it has been in the past.

You know this.

I don't know why anyone would look at the product we are seeing now and have been seeing over the last few years and thinking "yes, this is ideal".

The cars simply are not fit for the purpose to which they are intended. We know this will be the case until at least 2022. Given that I see know harm in trying different things in order to negate that fairly fundamental problem.

pokerman
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:47 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm


I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.
What has that go to do with qualifying, just put different cars at the front that can't be overtaken doesn't solve the issues that concern you.
If you put a faster car behind a slower car the chance for something exciting to happen is clearly increase.
So it's basically for your entertainment which is more important than the faster driver/car actually winning the race.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:20 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
How can qualifying be overpowered at the moment when it's basically always been the same, as the post you replied to says people watch for years then all of a sudden say I don't like that.
It's not always been the same. We have never had a time where it is so difficult to follow a car in front, let alone pass and thus qualifying ahead is far more important now than it has been in the past.

You know this.

I don't know why anyone would look at the product we are seeing now and have been seeing over the last few years and thinking "yes, this is ideal".

The cars simply are not fit for the purpose to which they are intended. We know this will be the case until at least 2022. Given that I see know harm in trying different things in order to negate that fairly fundamental problem.
I've been watching F1 for over 30 years and the cars have never been able to overtake one another apart from highlights reels that might make you think otherwise, as been said all of a sudden it's seen as a major problem by some that want F1 fundamentally changed to something that is totally different and you think no harm will be done, bold statement.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:38 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:20 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 pm
Over the years on this and other forums, whenever reverse grids get talked about, some people come in pretty passionately for it and can't understand that the faster cars can start at the front of the race, claiming it to be simply unfair. Yet these very same people appear to have been watching F1 for years, often decades. Why to they watch it?
I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
How can qualifying be overpowered at the moment when it's basically always been the same, as the post you replied to says people watch for years then all of a sudden say I don't like that.
It's not always been the same. We have never had a time where it is so difficult to follow a car in front, let alone pass and thus qualifying ahead is far more important now than it has been in the past.

You know this.

I don't know why anyone would look at the product we are seeing now and have been seeing over the last few years and thinking "yes, this is ideal".

The cars simply are not fit for the purpose to which they are intended. We know this will be the case until at least 2022. Given that I see know harm in trying different things in order to negate that fairly fundamental problem.
I've been watching F1 for over 30 years and the cars have never been able to overtake one another apart from highlights reels that might make you think otherwise, as been said all of a sudden it's seen as a major problem by some that want F1 fundamentally changed to something that is totally different and you think no harm will be done, bold statement.
Oh, come off it. If you're seriously suggesting the overtaking and following issues are no worse now than at any other time (despite gimmicks like DRS) then you are being willfully ignorant.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:47 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 pm


But is qualifying being highlighted as an issue because of F1 regulations? I know F2 has a reverse grid race of sorts, but they have normal qualifying for the first race and this doesn't seem to be having a detrimental effect on the quality of the racing, even though the faster team/driver combos tend to start at or near the front.
It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.
What has that go to do with qualifying, just put different cars at the front that can't be overtaken doesn't solve the issues that concern you.
If you put a faster car behind a slower car the chance for something exciting to happen is clearly increase.
So it's basically for your entertainment which is more important than the faster driver/car actually winning the race.
That has always been the case. Always. If it was all about the fastest car winning F1 would be a time trial rather than a race. It isn't. Presumably because a race is more exciting.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by MistaVega23 »

Palmer's not a fan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54076469

F1 needs to wait and see what the 2021 cars can do. If the racing is closer, then reverse grids shouldn't be mentioned again. Ever.
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WHoff78
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by WHoff78 »

Perhaps they should consider keeping the same format, with a 1-hr reverse grid race and reduced (~50%) points, following the main event on Sunday.

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Exediron
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Exediron »

MistaVega23 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:13 pm
Palmer's not a fan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54076469

F1 needs to wait and see what the 2021 cars can do. If the racing is closer, then reverse grids shouldn't be mentioned again. Ever.
As usual, Palmer hits the nail on the head:
If F1 is to remain a credible sport, it needs to avoid unfair gimmicks in a rash bid to shake things up and put another plaster over the issues, rather than try and solving the root of them.
F1 needs to fix its problems, but not with band-aid solutions. The cars need to be able to overtake, and the massive gaps between team spending need to close. Reverse grids are not the solution.
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pokerman
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:05 pm
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:38 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:20 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:14 pm


I'd like to see it because I think it would be really interesting. I wouldn't want it every race though.

I do think qualifying is way overpowered at the moment though.
How can qualifying be overpowered at the moment when it's basically always been the same, as the post you replied to says people watch for years then all of a sudden say I don't like that.
It's not always been the same. We have never had a time where it is so difficult to follow a car in front, let alone pass and thus qualifying ahead is far more important now than it has been in the past.

You know this.

I don't know why anyone would look at the product we are seeing now and have been seeing over the last few years and thinking "yes, this is ideal".

The cars simply are not fit for the purpose to which they are intended. We know this will be the case until at least 2022. Given that I see know harm in trying different things in order to negate that fairly fundamental problem.
I've been watching F1 for over 30 years and the cars have never been able to overtake one another apart from highlights reels that might make you think otherwise, as been said all of a sudden it's seen as a major problem by some that want F1 fundamentally changed to something that is totally different and you think no harm will be done, bold statement.
Oh, come off it. If you're seriously suggesting the overtaking and following issues are no worse now than at any other time (despite gimmicks like DRS) then you are being willfully ignorant.
Why do you think that DRS got introduced in the first place if overtaking was such a hoot, what's amazing is sometimes hearing you complain about an easy DRS pass.
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pokerman
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:07 pm
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:32 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:47 pm


It's 100% due to the regulations.

Look at the action in F3 and F2 at Monza and then compare it to F1. And that was considered one of the more entertaining races!

The current cars aren't fit for purpose. I said in the race thread it's a bit like trying to race the grand national using dressage horses. Undoubtedly highly specialised beasts but just not for the job that's required of them.

Whilst the cars remain not fit for purpose I don't see any harm in trying to do things to at least give the impression they are.

I've actually always been in favor of overtaking in F1 being difficult. As soon as an overtake becomes inevitable the excitement is gone. At the moment though the cars can't even get within 1.5 seconds of each other. Which quite frankly even looks dull.
What has that go to do with qualifying, just put different cars at the front that can't be overtaken doesn't solve the issues that concern you.
If you put a faster car behind a slower car the chance for something exciting to happen is clearly increase.
So it's basically for your entertainment which is more important than the faster driver/car actually winning the race.
That has always been the case. Always. If it was all about the fastest car winning F1 would be a time trial rather than a race. It isn't. Presumably because a race is more exciting.
Having systems in place to stop the fastest car winning so slower cars can win is merely a racing version of WWE, fake.
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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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2018: 7th place

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pokerman
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:48 pm
MistaVega23 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:13 pm
Palmer's not a fan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54076469

F1 needs to wait and see what the 2021 cars can do. If the racing is closer, then reverse grids shouldn't be mentioned again. Ever.
As usual, Palmer hits the nail on the head:
If F1 is to remain a credible sport, it needs to avoid unfair gimmicks in a rash bid to shake things up and put another plaster over the issues, rather than try and solving the root of them.
F1 needs to fix its problems, but not with band-aid solutions. The cars need to be able to overtake, and the massive gaps between team spending need to close. Reverse grids are not the solution.
Indeed and I can only speak for myself but would they not consider that some may choose not to watch?
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

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