Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

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TedStriker
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Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by TedStriker »

Maybe rather artificial but the sport does have to retain/attract casual fans. Lewis cruising to a managed win each week can't be good for business long term.

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2fast
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by 2fast »

Love this idea, we might see a '2005 Japanese GP' in every session.
too fast to slow down

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by KeillRandor »

It has to be worth testing it, right?

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Exediron »

God, no. Sprint races have no place in F1.

Chasing casual fans is the quickest way to destroy your product.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by JN23 »

I think some of those calling for it are forgetting there was actually a lack of overtaking on Sunday afternoon. Other than Räikkönen in one of the slowest cars on worn softs falling through the pack and Hamilton in the fastest car going up through the pack, I can remember very few other overtakes, if any.

As I said on the race thread at the time, what made this race/this type of race so exciting is that it’s so rare to see. If it happened every week, I wouldn’t be too happy but every now and again I enjoy it.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Clarky »

No!!!

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by F1_Ernie »

Here we go, knew this was coming. Skys coverage will be painful from Friday to Sunday now, especially Crofty. There wasnt actually any overtaking apart from Hamilton overtaking much slower cars at the back. It was nice to see a different winner but it was manufactured from a poorly called SC.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by KingVoid »

Let's address the elephant in the room: the reason why FIA and Liberty are pushing so hard for reverse grid races is because of Mercedes domination.

There's a lot of rule changes planned for 2022, but that still leaves 2021. As it stands right now, Mercedes have a huge advantage locked in for next season, and they signed Bottas for another year which means no competition at the top. There is nothing to suggest that 2021 will be anything but another Mercedes/Hamilton cakewalk.

FIA and Liberty are perfectly aware of the fact that most fans find Hamilton and Mercedes winning every race without any competition to be very boring. They are also scared at the prospect of bored fans tuning out of the sport, for obvious reasons. There's a lot of money at stake here.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

As for myself? I would be in favour of reverse grids for 2021 but not beyond.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by JN23 »

I’m not so sure that’s an elephant in the room. Plenty of people on this forum are aware of the Mercedes domination almost certainly going into next year.

If I was the FIA, my biggest worry would be what happens if Mercedes nail it again in 2022? I guess you might also worry what they’d do in response to that.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Badgeronimous »

I was initially against this, but it would force teams to develop cars differently, in a way that should encourage better racing. I would rather see this through design and simplification of the sport, than reverse grid qualifying.

However, as a fan and somebody who wants to watch the highest level of motorsport - I accept fully that the status quo cannot continue. The sport isn't good to watch, and the trend has been a slow decline for 20-25yrs. The hybrid era has been a boring era where the sports became very predictable and too often a one horse race. Taken as a whole, the 2010s generally were poor as a spectacle.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Harpo »

F1 history : an increasingly fast drowning from cherished gourmet restaurant to world wide fast-food junk.

It seems like the only thing they can think of is adding show business promotional gimmicks rather than a far less show-off of drastic shake-up of the technical regulations (starting with reducing the size of the cars and the stupid number of aero proboscis - which would certainly be less expensive than anything they think of when discussing technical "improvements")
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Greenman »

.

Absolute rubbish idea. Sunday's race showed that the best driver, in undoubtedly the best car could only manage to get into the low points, and that was whilst cruising past the slowest drivers. If there were 4 or 6 fast cars at the back they would spend ages trying to get past each other whilst slowly making difficult passes of much slower cars !

Reverse grids are a joke, and things like "wild card" promotions or decreases in grid positions are both unfair and prone to manipulation by authorities looking to make races "interesting" (and we already have ample evidence that the FIA have "form" on this account).

"Racing" is meant to be the best beating the rest, the job of everyone in F1 is to strive to be the best, and the authorities should help with the rules WITHOUT being biased.

Some horse racing (for instance) have a handicapping system of increasing/decreasing add-on weights to try to ROUGHLY equalise performance, but who would trust the FIA to run that ?

.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Option or Prime »

KingVoid wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 am
Let's address the elephant in the room: the reason why FIA and Liberty are pushing so hard for reverse grid races is because of Mercedes domination.
True, but who is at fault for that? Ferrari for all their extra money could only ch... adapt their interpretation to get parity, Its only now after 5 years that Renault and Honda can get close. The rules were the same its just one team have a better package.
Doesn't really matter what you do with the rules, providing they are the same for everyone the 'better package' will get the better result. Lets give it a couple more races to see how party mode works out, it seemed to hit Red Bull hard at the weekend glitch perhaps?

Even if these sprint races get implemented is it really going to level the field or will the best teams and drivers simply float to the top again like the cream they are?

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Jezza13 »

Sadly I think something like reverse grids are inevitable, especially if 1 team at a time continues to dominate the championships as has been the case since 2010.

A reverse grid system, like the DRS, is just a Mickey Mouse, quick fix, gimmicky, comical & downright lazy & amateurish attempt to rectify the wrongs committed by CVC & FIA over the past 20 yrs. Like the demise of the privateer teams, this again is the by-product of giving certain teams too much influence over the direction of the sport & kowtowing to those teams who continue to throw out idle threats if they don't get what they want.

I'd imagine the sprint race would also be an attempt for LM to entice the new, short attention span viewer to the sport who would somehow struggle to sit through a 90 minute race but can easily negotiate a Big Brother marathon with nothing more than brain dead look on their faces & their phones nearby so they can update their FB status every 5 minutes or post a fish face pic on Instagram (#chillininmyjamjams #F1rox) :uhoh:

Reverse grids should be confined to weekend go-kart gymkhanas, not the pinnacle of motor sport.

Whats next on the agenda? Dressing the pit crews in gimp masks, flashy tights & capes & letting them attack each other with steel fold up chairs during pit stops?
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Harpo »

Option or Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:22 am
KingVoid wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 am
Let's address the elephant in the room: the reason why FIA and Liberty are pushing so hard for reverse grid races is because of Mercedes domination.
True, but who is at fault for that? Ferrari for all their extra money could only ch... adapt their interpretation to get parity, Its only now after 5 years that Renault and Honda can get close. The rules were the same its just one team have a better package.
Doesn't really matter what you do with the rules, providing they are the same for everyone the 'better package' will get the better result. Lets give it a couple more races to see how party mode works out, it seemed to hit Red Bull hard at the weekend glitch perhaps?

Even if these sprint races get implemented is it really going to level the field or will the best teams and drivers simply float to the top again like the cream they are?
Problem of the current technical "rules" is that the team that has the better package is the team that had few years of advance in the study of the said rules. Advance which obviously can't be made up for...
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Herb »

In the right formula, reverse grids are fantastic.

I used to travel all over the country to watch small-oval racing - where they almost exclusively use reverse grids. And it works brilliantly because everything is setup for that format - including being less reliant on downforce.

For F1? No, it's a terrible idea. With the current cars, at some tracks you'll just end up with trains of cars unable to pass (oh god, imagine Monaco), at others you'll just get the fast cars breezing through with DRS.

We'll also have more crashes, meaning more safety cars - is that what we want?

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

Good luck with finding the casual fans because I won't be watching, it's also feeding the ones fed up of Hamilton winning, closing the pit lane seconds before Hamilton was coming into pit worked last time out though.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
!t's awful, for me then I'm left with one practice, qualifying and then the race, it gives me less.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
This could work as a compromise that satisfies the people who want reverse grid races and those who don't.The reverse grid race happens, but it doesn't affect the WDC/WCC. You'd probably need to make the reverse grid championship worthwhile though, as there's a chance the top teams/drivers would sacrifice it in favour of the actual race - prize money I assume?

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:40 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
This could work as a compromise that satisfies the people who want reverse grid races and those who don't.The reverse grid race happens, but it doesn't affect the WDC/WCC. You'd probably need to make the reverse grid championship worthwhile though, as there's a chance the top teams/drivers would sacrifice it in favour of the actual race - prize money I assume?
Yeah, I can't see any team really caring much for the reverse grid race, and it only makes it more costly to the smaller teams. Other ideas of such a race could be a spec series championship, musical chairs race, Formula 1.5 race, but at the end of the day, they'd all be gimmicky and reduce the integrity of the sport.

As for reverse grid qualifying - in my eyes, that's essentially a doubly long reverse Grand Prix split in two by a red flag event, something I'd hate to see in F1. Maybe there's room for a reverse top ten ala Formula 2, if they still do that.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:22 pm
JN23 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:40 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
This could work as a compromise that satisfies the people who want reverse grid races and those who don't.The reverse grid race happens, but it doesn't affect the WDC/WCC. You'd probably need to make the reverse grid championship worthwhile though, as there's a chance the top teams/drivers would sacrifice it in favour of the actual race - prize money I assume?
Yeah, I can't see any team really caring much for the reverse grid race, and it only makes it more costly to the smaller teams. Other ideas of such a race could be a spec series championship, musical chairs race, Formula 1.5 race, but at the end of the day, they'd all be gimmicky and reduce the integrity of the sport.

As for reverse grid qualifying - in my eyes, that's essentially a doubly long reverse Grand Prix split in two by a red flag event, something I'd hate to see in F1. Maybe there's room for a reverse top ten ala Formula 2, if they still do that.
I'd have thought it would be a money spinner for smaller teams. They get more TV coverage and don't have to run any extra sessions. I'm sure they be some extra costs but they wouldn't be major and I think would be offset.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

I hate, I despise boring processions where most of the field is in the same position as they started. I also have a strong distaste of any team dominating. That is why I have lost my interest in Formula One these last few years. That also happened to me during the Schumacher era.

I disagree with reverse grids because they are a band-aid solution for the problems that cause boring races, and I believe racing should always be a meritocracy.

There are two major influences on why we have boring races. The first is money, caused by the previous imbalance in the Formula One business model. You do well, more money, better results. You do poorly, no money, you slip away into oblivion. The second reason is that the passing is almost impossible. The aero situation does not allow a car to effect a pass.

Other racing series have managed to put into effect rules that allow lots of passing and action, why can't Formula One do it?
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:15 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:22 pm
JN23 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:40 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
This could work as a compromise that satisfies the people who want reverse grid races and those who don't.The reverse grid race happens, but it doesn't affect the WDC/WCC. You'd probably need to make the reverse grid championship worthwhile though, as there's a chance the top teams/drivers would sacrifice it in favour of the actual race - prize money I assume?
Yeah, I can't see any team really caring much for the reverse grid race, and it only makes it more costly to the smaller teams. Other ideas of such a race could be a spec series championship, musical chairs race, Formula 1.5 race, but at the end of the day, they'd all be gimmicky and reduce the integrity of the sport.

As for reverse grid qualifying - in my eyes, that's essentially a doubly long reverse Grand Prix split in two by a red flag event, something I'd hate to see in F1. Maybe there's room for a reverse top ten ala Formula 2, if they still do that.
I'd have thought it would be a money spinner for smaller teams. They get more TV coverage and don't have to run any extra sessions. I'm sure they be some extra costs but they wouldn't be major and I think would be offset.
Yeah, you could be right actually. For instance, I couldn't help but try pick out the sponsors on Gasly's car that were getting extra exposure for being in first at Monza. That said, I do think the biggest problem would be that the top teams simply wouldn't invest much of their time and resources into such a championship event.

This reminds me, one thing I'd like to see pushed more, is a stronger incentive to fight for second and third in the championship standings, similar to how the Premier League has the top four battle. I still haven't thought of any major idea to try to replicate it yet though.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by j man »

I'm not opposed to the principle of reverse grids. If you want to win a so-called drivers world championship then perhaps you should be able to prove that you can race through the midfield as well as just leading away from pole position. However, my main concern here is nicely summed up by this:
Jezza13 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:46 am
A reverse grid system, like the DRS, is just a Mickey Mouse, quick fix, gimmicky, comical & downright lazy & amateurish attempt to rectify the wrongs committed by CVC & FIA over the past 20 yrs. Like the demise of the privateer teams, this again is the by-product of giving certain teams too much influence over the direction of the sport & kowtowing to those teams who continue to throw out idle threats if they don't get what they want.
Let's solve the actual problems rather than bodging even more half-baked solutions into the mess we already have. This is another means to evade the responsibility of wresting control back from the big teams. F1 doesn't need reverse grids for it to be exciting and I find it genuinely baffling that for so many decades the people running the sport have not been able to see what is wrong with it.

If you took the sprint race out of F2 and just ran it as qualifying and the Saturday feature race you'd have a format that pretty much mirrors what F1 has. Yet you'd still have one hell of a good championship just because the cars are closely matched and can actually be raced wheel to wheel.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by WHoff78 »

j man wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:07 pm
I'm not opposed to the principle of reverse grids. If you want to win a so-called drivers world championship then perhaps you should be able to prove that you can race through the midfield as well as just leading away from pole position. However, my main concern here is nicely summed up by this:
Jezza13 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:46 am
A reverse grid system, like the DRS, is just a Mickey Mouse, quick fix, gimmicky, comical & downright lazy & amateurish attempt to rectify the wrongs committed by CVC & FIA over the past 20 yrs. Like the demise of the privateer teams, this again is the by-product of giving certain teams too much influence over the direction of the sport & kowtowing to those teams who continue to throw out idle threats if they don't get what they want.
Let's solve the actual problems rather than bodging even more half-baked solutions into the mess we already have. This is another means to evade the responsibility of wresting control back from the big teams. F1 doesn't need reverse grids for it to be exciting and I find it genuinely baffling that for so many decades the people running the sport have not been able to see what is wrong with it.

If you took the sprint race out of F2 and just ran it as qualifying and the Saturday feature race you'd have a format that pretty much mirrors what F1 has. Yet you'd still have one hell of a good championship just because the cars are closely matched and can actually be raced wheel to wheel.
I certainly do not think that every weekend should involve a reverse grid in F1 and hope that it not a consideration, but is not possible that part of the reason that the cars are closely matched and able to race wheel to wheel in F2 because they have to be designed that way as they have to be capable of leading from the front and coming through the pack. It means a team can not bank on being in free air 80% of the time, designing everything to the absolute limit and excepting that they do get hurt a bit on the odd occasion they find themselves caught up in the midfield. Being able to race wheel to wheel also becomes a necessity rather than a nice to have for the best team(s).

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

If they'd just fix the aero and reduce the cars braking abilities, I swear it would help and we'd not be worrying about DRS, reverse grids etc.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by JN23 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:27 pm
If they'd just fix the aero and reduce the cars braking abilities, I swear it would help and we'd not be worrying about DRS, reverse grids etc.
Do the 2022 regulations reduce the cars braking abilities?

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Seanie
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Seanie »

KingVoid wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 am
Let's address the elephant in the room: the reason why FIA and Liberty are pushing so hard for reverse grid races is because of Mercedes domination.

There's a lot of rule changes planned for 2022, but that still leaves 2021. As it stands right now, Mercedes have a huge advantage locked in for next season, and they signed Bottas for another year which means no competition at the top. There is nothing to suggest that 2021 will be anything but another Mercedes/Hamilton cakewalk.

FIA and Liberty are perfectly aware of the fact that most fans find Hamilton and Mercedes winning every race without any competition to be very boring. They are also scared at the prospect of bored fans tuning out of the sport, for obvious reasons. There's a lot of money at stake here.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

As for myself? I would be in favour of reverse grids for 2021 but not beyond.
I agree, maybe implement it for 2021 to compensate for the delay of the regulation changes.

What harm will it do, really...?
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

Seanie wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:46 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:00 am
Let's address the elephant in the room: the reason why FIA and Liberty are pushing so hard for reverse grid races is because of Mercedes domination.

There's a lot of rule changes planned for 2022, but that still leaves 2021. As it stands right now, Mercedes have a huge advantage locked in for next season, and they signed Bottas for another year which means no competition at the top. There is nothing to suggest that 2021 will be anything but another Mercedes/Hamilton cakewalk.

FIA and Liberty are perfectly aware of the fact that most fans find Hamilton and Mercedes winning every race without any competition to be very boring. They are also scared at the prospect of bored fans tuning out of the sport, for obvious reasons. There's a lot of money at stake here.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

As for myself? I would be in favour of reverse grids for 2021 but not beyond.
I agree, maybe implement it for 2021 to compensate for the delay of the regulation changes.

What harm will it do, really...?
People will just watch what's put in front of them, good luck with that.
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Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by WHoff78 »

I would be ok with reverse grids providing that they were only replaced qualifying on a handful of select race weekends throughout the calendar – for me a cap of around 25% of the races is probably about right.

So 75% of races would see the current qualifying format on Saturday, followed by race – unchanged because right now qualifying for me is a spectacle in itself, every bit a test for these drivers and ultimate one lap pace is still a big part of defining the DNA of winning driver/team. Plus I look forward to qualifying more on some weekends than the race itself, Monaco for starters.

On the other 25% of race weekends, then a reverse grid could replace qualifying based on the current WDC order. These weekends would place greater emphasis around racecraft and ability to race through the pack. Should be a minimum of say 4-5 races at the start of the season to order the WDC standings before the first reverse grid, as I don’t think teams/drivers should be handicapped based on the previous seasons results.

I think if they do something like that, it would generally avoid overly handicapping the best team, at the expense of the 2nd/3rd best teams. But would still spice things up a little and make sure that the teams need to seriously consider the cars performance when following and overtaking in the design process.

I do understand why some people dislike the idea of reverse grids all together though, as they are effectively a form of handicap although this is only marginal as everyone is in the same position, and only penalized slightly more than the car behind in the standings. I would hope that there aren’t many on here who think that current qualifying should be scrapped completely though.

WHoff78
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by WHoff78 »

However, I completely agree with many who have said that more focus should be put towards fixing the actual issues that are preventing racing. Monza was not a particularly interesting race to watch besides being a new winner. Even with everyone out of order it was still next to impossible to overtake. Racing with reverse grids with the current cars would be a joke - the teams need time to factor this into the design. Probably should have added this to my post above.

Charles LeBrad
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:02 am
A few races back Crofty suggested a race weekend schedule that I thought was sensible -

Friday -

AM - 1st practice. Only junior drivers allowed.

PM - 2nd Practice

Saturday

AM - Qualifying

PM - Reverse grid race with results counting toward a seperate and less prestigious reverse grid championship

Sunday

PM - Race as normal

This has the benefit of reducing practice time but still giving promoters the same amount of on track action. It also means that the gimmicky but very exciting reverse grid concept doesn't have an affect on the championship.
This is close to something I would like to see. Is he suggesting the Qualifying will be for the Sprint Race, or the Sunday Race? Just trying to understand how the reverse grid is determined.

My thinking is more like

Friday -
AM - Junior Driver Practice
PM - F1 Driver Practice

Saturday
AM - Qualifying for PM Sprint race
PM - Sprint race to determine Sunday grid. No seperate championship or anything

Sunday
PM - Race

Im not a fan of Reverse Grids. The V8 Supercards trialled them in the early 00's and it was a disaster. Could you imagine reverse grids at Monaco?

mac_d
Posts: 4231
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:41 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by mac_d »

Before this path is even ventured down, I want to see how the budget caps work out. I'm hoping that mostly we'll have a closer field, and so that a driver can perform a little better at a certain track and that might be all the difference. And, of course, the dirty air issue that never seems to be solved, needs to be solved.

As for reverse grid sprint races, I don't like it as a concept. It just feels fake. Maybe I'm too stuck into a "this is how we've always done it" mentality. I suppose, other than that mentality, I don't have a particularly strong argument for why the race grid should necessarily be sorted in the way it currently is.

KingVoid
Posts: 2850
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by KingVoid »

Seanie wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:46 pm
I agree, maybe implement it for 2021 to compensate for the delay of the regulation changes.

What harm will it do, really...?
That’s exactly what I’m thinking

Implement it for 2021 and then drop it for the new regulation changes

Asphalt_World
Posts: 4950
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Asphalt_World »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:48 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:27 pm
If they'd just fix the aero and reduce the cars braking abilities, I swear it would help and we'd not be worrying about DRS, reverse grids etc.
Do the 2022 regulations reduce the cars braking abilities?
I didn't think so, but I'll have a look and see.
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Greenman
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:58 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by Greenman »

.

So, can any of the fans of reverse grids, PLEASE tell the rest of us how the reverse will play out ?

The top 4 to 6 will immediately start battling each other and the next group up, whilst the middle 8 will gobble up the ridiculously slow top 4. Once that is all sorted out (probably with lots of minor hits) - and half the race has been wasted - the top 4, or so, have to make up a shed load of time on the leaders and then have toste time battling through.

So, lots of wasted effort, lots of wasted time all for the sake of artificial "excitement" ! At least artificial rain is equal for all.

.

pc27b
Posts: 782
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:17 pm
Location: illinois

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pc27b »

i think reverse grids are a ridiculous idea for f1. just because a foolish sky announcer wants them, they should be brought up again. no, nope, nein

as others have pointed out, make sure the 2022 regulation changes allow for the cars to follow closer, and pass some more. look into changing some tracks so they are more suited for a modern f1 car

pokerman
Posts: 35334
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by pokerman »

Greenman wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:22 am
.

So, can any of the fans of reverse grids, PLEASE tell the rest of us how the reverse will play out ?

The top 4 to 6 will immediately start battling each other and the next group up, whilst the middle 8 will gobble up the ridiculously slow top 4. Once that is all sorted out (probably with lots of minor hits) - and half the race has been wasted - the top 4, or so, have to make up a shed load of time on the leaders and then have toste time battling through.

So, lots of wasted effort, lots of wasted time all for the sake of artificial "excitement" ! At least artificial rain is equal for all.

.
Are you going to watch it because I'm not, sport should be a metricocracy not some socially balancing act, what do you think Joe, interesting he has the same view as me about cricket as well, go to 19:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Hoh-8Gnjk
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F1_Ernie
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Reverse Grid Sprint Races back on the table?

Post by F1_Ernie »

Not even sure how the Monza race was a good advert for reversed grids. Slower car winning the race due to a SC. We only saw Hamilton make overtakes on much slower cars and Ocon on the wrong tyres, otherwise it was DRS trains. It will be even worse on most of the F1 circuits.
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