2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

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wire2004
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wire2004 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:58 pm
wire2004 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:56 pm
purchville wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:15 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:13 pm
Was it more Hamilton's error or that of his engineers? I think Vettel would have had the awareness to stay out as he's sharp with that stuff. Hamilton does have some brain fades, but ultimately his team gave him the instruction to box and should have been the safety net for Hamilton. Either way it's a blunder, but at least we got to see Hamilton's racing skills afterwards, which painted a sorry picture for Bottas.
He failed to see x2 big red X's , on the exit of Parabolica, before entering the pit lane. That's on him

2 big red x's that he wouldn't necessarily need to look at because it should say SC on it.

Jenson Button said it as well. I Have never seen the boards that give the flags and SC sign have this red X on the board to signify a closed pit. Because there should be traffic lights at the pit entrance that signify the pit lane is open or closed.

I Have never in all my time watching formula 1 in the last 26 years seen this sign. You would be looking for the traffic lights at the pit entrance to tell you if the pit lane was closed.

Sorry. Where were the traffic lights at the pit entrance. As is the case the pit exit.
But, how did all but 2 drivers know about the signs and see them? That's the question.
I cant speak for gio. But for hamilton. He is the first one on the scene. Probably somewhere 10 seconds after the safety car came out. And when did the message come up on the pit gantry for bono to react and tell lewis to stay out. That's what saved all the other drivers with the exception of gio. The engineers would of seen the message and reacted and told the drivers. Hamilton was close to the pit entrance when the safety car came out.
Why was there no traffic lights at the pit entrance??? It is well known that there is traffic lights in the pit entrance. Where it is wildly known that During the race. Is To close the pit lane. And During practice and Qualifiying. The red light signifys you to go the weigh bridge.

Of course lewis would not be looking at the boards. Neither would any other driver. For him. He would be looking for the traffic lights at the pit entrance if he was to abort the pit stop.

Another question why I'm at it. Why did it not come up on the drivers steering wheel like every other flag and safety car message does which would of given lewis opportunity to abort the pit stop.

The only conclusion I can come up is the fia did not give the message straight away because sky recieve the same info as the teams in the commentary booth. And they were just as confused as to why sainz didnt come in until.it came up on the screen.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:02 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:58 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:52 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:32 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:31 pm


Yes agreed. Button also said on Sky that he’s never seen it signalled like that before so Hamilton might not have been looking for it.
It was very sneaky and frankly unfortunate for Hamilton. I do think there are some drivers who would have caught on but that was a nice little trap which was easy to fall into.
By sneaky, do you think they timed it as an attempt to catch only Lewis out? Do you think someone threw a towel over lights at pit entry and quickly erected big ones with a cross to catch Lewis out? Sneaky tells me you think it was intentional.
Well it's easy to be suspicious in the midst of moves to try and stop Mercedes from winning or at least make it harder for them.
The signs were there and all the drivers bar two saw them. It's hardly anything to be suspicious about. Come on. You will look a fool if you believe that the stewards were celebrating because their plan to using signs on the outside of the Parabolica to close a pit lane caught out just 2 drivers and one happened to be the one they wanted to trick. Seriously.....
Well Hamilton was first to the pits when the SC was called and told to pit. The over drivers would have been told by radio to not pit.
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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Well I think if teams told their drivers to box and then stayed silent to see who would react appropriately, many more than 2 would have been caught out, though in watching the confusion ahead perhaps the further behind a driver is the more likely it is that they clock on to reality of the situation.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:49 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:40 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:39 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:37 pm
Should never have been a SC, at least the FIA got what they wanted, it just guarantees SCs will be used even more now.
It would have been the same with a VSC.
A SC bunches up the group
I mean it wouldn't have stopped what happened to Hamilton, then again with a VSC he had a big enough lead not to have to pit, I would be guessing though that he still would have pitted.
Oh yeah I agree, it's just I hate SCs being used like I'm watching WWE. Now the FIA have got the result they wanted they will be using SCs even more now.
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BMWSauber84
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

A statistical oddity. The last time Alpha Tauri/Torro Rosso won a race, Hamilton also finished 7th.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

In hindsight, given that Hamilton's woes were not taken advantage of by his title rivals in any meaningful way, it's a shame he wasn't just given a drive through.

I still don't think he'd have won the race, but it would have been a phenomenal finish potentially with two young guns having to hold off a charging Hamilton.

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:18 pm
In hindsight, given that Hamilton's woes were not taken advantage of by his title rivals in any meaningful way, it's a shame he wasn't just given a drive through.

I still don't think he'd have won the race, but it would have been a phenomenal finish potentially with two young guns having to hold off a charging Hamilton.
Yep - that probably would have transpired.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Anyway, I got back to my long time mantra - Slow Zones. Safety cars, for issues like the removal of the car down the pit lane, don't need to stop the racing. The cars can keep racing at full speed for something like 90% of the circuit and then run on the pit limiter past the car being recovered.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Albon out, Gasly in.



I jest!
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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Albon out, Gasly in.



I jest!
Gasly has made it clear he has "unfinished business" with Red Bull, so I wonder if he'll have a choice message for the RBR gang after this result.

"I'm ready." ... said Gasly with deadpan certainty.

He's been one of the better drivers this season. Not sure where I'd place him but he's been very good quite often.

BMWSauber84
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Racing Point must wish it was Perez who had fluked his way near the front instead of Stroll. I feel like RP will see this as a race they should have won.

Rockie
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:46 pm
Racing Point must wish it was Perez who had fluked his way near the front instead of Stroll. I feel like RP will see this as a race they should have won.
Won't have been different!

It's Mclaren that will be kicking themselves!

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

So, Sky reporting that Lewis knew the safety car was coming out and was looking at his wheel, making adjustments as he went through Parabolica so missed the signs!

Now, if this is true, you could blame him for not paying enough attention to circuit signals. Personally, I just put it down to a bit of bad luck and one of those things that could have happened to anyone.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Watching Ted's notebook is always entertaining. I have also noticed that the vast majority of the pit crew packing everything up, have eaten far too much pasta!
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BMWSauber84
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:50 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:46 pm
Racing Point must wish it was Perez who had fluked his way near the front instead of Stroll. I feel like RP will see this as a race they should have won.
Won't have been different!

It's Mclaren that will be kicking themselves!
I think it probably would have been. Stroll himself thought the race was in his hands until the clumsy lockup.

A_Game_A_Day
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by A_Game_A_Day »

Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:31 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Albon out, Gasly in.



I jest!
Gasly has made it clear he has "unfinished business" with Red Bull, so I wonder if he'll have a choice message for the RBR gang after this result.

"I'm ready." ... said Gasly with deadpan certainty.

He's been one of the better drivers this season. Not sure where I'd place him but he's been very good quite often.
As if the pressure wasn't building enough on Albon though. He should (be expected to) pick up the pieces when Hamilton/Bottas/Verstappen aren't grabbing the win, but takes himself out of contention with qualy & starts.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

If the stop/go rule was more flexible in terms of when a driver could take the penalty, could Hamilton have pulled out enough of a gap to take his punishment on the penultimate lap and still win?

In free air he was running something like 1.5 seconds faster than Gasly so I suspect he still would have. That would have taken a great story away from the fans.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:42 pm
If the stop/go rule was more flexible in terms of when a driver could take the penalty, could Hamilton have pulled out enough of a gap to take his punishment on the penultimate lap and still win?

In free air he was running something like 1.5 seconds faster than Gasly so I suspect he still would have. That would have taken a great story away from the fans.
I Think he certainly would have threatened the podium and maybe the win.
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Harpo
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Harpo »

Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:31 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Albon out, Gasly in.



I jest!
Gasly has made it clear he has "unfinished business" with Red Bull, so I wonder if he'll have a choice message for the RBR gang after this result.

"I'm ready." ... said Gasly with deadpan certainty.

He's been one of the better drivers this season. Not sure where I'd place him but he's been very good quite often.
If I was Gasly (I'm not), the last team I would like to join is Red Bull. If he is not aware that RBR is a one driver team, and that he will never be this one driver (as long as Verstappen Junior is there, at least), he only has to ask to look at a video showing Marko expressing his instant pleasure and spontaneous joy when he won.
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

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Mort Canard
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

purchville wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:15 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:13 pm
Was it more Hamilton's error or that of his engineers? I think Vettel would have had the awareness to stay out as he's sharp with that stuff. Hamilton does have some brain fades, but ultimately his team gave him the instruction to box and should have been the safety net for Hamilton. Either way it's a blunder, but at least we got to see Hamilton's racing skills afterwards, which painted a sorry picture for Bottas.
He failed to see x2 big red X's , on the exit of Parabolica, before entering the pit lane. That's on him
:thumbup: :nod:
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Rockie
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:21 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:50 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:46 pm
Racing Point must wish it was Perez who had fluked his way near the front instead of Stroll. I feel like RP will see this as a race they should have won.
Won't have been different!

It's Mclaren that will be kicking themselves!
I think it probably would have been. Stroll himself thought the race was in his hands until the clumsy lockup.
Yeah terrible start and losing P2 put paid to his race win chance.

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Clarky
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Fiki wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:15 pm
purchville wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:11 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:03 pm
I don't often vote for the winner as driver of the day, but I did this time. And well in time too. Still, even though I am delighted for Pierre, it's all due to the use of the Spectacle Car.
No, it's all due to a multi WDC making a bad error
Which he wouldn't have made without the use of the Spectacle Car in the first place. What I do find strange is that he didn't get a timely radio call to warn him not to come in. Then again, I'm against remote control racing, so I'm glad he didn't get one.
It was confirmed that he was told to box on the radio.

schumilegend
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by schumilegend »

Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while

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Clarky
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Verstappen FURIOUS after RETIREMENT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYiI1Us ... el=F1Fun4u

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

schumilegend wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while
I think Bottas' performances haven't just been slightly better than Albon's but much better. Albon drove another horror show today and some are considering it an achievement that he qualified within roughly 3 tenths of Max, which alone is legitimately humourous.

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

My subjective driver tracking for performance through the season...

Hamilton: 6.38
Bottas: 5.00
Verstappen: 6.14
Albon: 3.50
Leclerc: 5.13
Vettel: 4.43
Sainz: 5.43
Norris: 5.50
Ricciardo: 5.71
Ocon: 4.63

So I have Albon, Ocon and Vettel performing worse than Bottas from that bunch. Leclerc has some really excellent performances but a couple of horror shows really drops his average down.
Last edited by Invade on Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Good_Year
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Good_Year »

My delayed thoughts

Well in pierre.

But is Max, as good as we think he is, actually bad for AMRBR because he's out performing the car and causing unrealistic expectations? (that makes max even faster I suppose)

Since Gasly gone back to TR/AR He's looked like twice the driver. Maybe that could just be maturity too.

Weird to think at one point Kvyat was being held up by Gasly. This must sting for him, again wrong place at the right time daniil, still we'll always have the Memes.

Hamiltons penalty. On TV it was hard to see the x's without replay and I bet you could convince people it actually said SC. having said that those are the rules, and that 12 second window was all that was needed. I guess some didn't Read the track pack. I bet we have colour lights at pit entry next season now.


When was the pitlane last closed during a race. I'm struggling to remember but I'm think the 2009 season when refueling was still a thing?
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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

I did initially read the boards/panels as "SC", yes.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Rockie »

Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:06 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while
I think Bottas' performances haven't just been slightly better than Albon's but much better. Albon drove another horror show today and some are considering it an achievement that he qualified within roughly 3 tenths of Max, which alone is legitimately humourous.
I don't agree with this, atleast Albon still fights back through the field, Bottas is just weak if he's not running behind Hamilton and even when he is he can't make any impression.

One can name notable overtakes Albon has done I cant remember one for Bottas where he has made an attempt let alone overtake!

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:11 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:06 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while
I think Bottas' performances haven't just been slightly better than Albon's but much better. Albon drove another horror show today and some are considering it an achievement that he qualified within roughly 3 tenths of Max, which alone is legitimately humourous.
I don't agree with this, atleast Albon still fights back through the field, Bottas is just weak if he's not running behind Hamilton and even when he is he can't make any impression.

One can name notable overtakes Albon has done I cant remember one for Bottas where he has made an attempt let alone overtake!
Albon gives himself way too much work to do through genuinely poor qualifying displays and drove a 'mare today. Generally he's much further away from his teammate, so I have to disagree. Bottas has at least generally been solid. Albon creates illusions by being racey after mucking things up for himself and he's incident prone. It is though true that his team hasn't helped him much with strategies and also apparently he often doesn't run the same parts as Max, but it isn't enough of an excuse.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

At least Albon can race his car and make some sort of effort. Bottas has been embarrassed today. He overtook nobody in the best car on the grid, cried on the radio and made us believe it was the cars fault he couldn't overtake. Suddenly Hamilton is plonked 25seconds back from last place, overtook on track to finish only 2 places behind Bottas. Bottas should he ashamed of his performance in this race seriously. Its hilarious that from his position on the grid at the restart he wasn't able to overtake anybody and never was considered to be able to fight for the win; yet if it had been Hamilton in his position, I think it's fair to say that Hamilton probably would have won the race

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

I've watched all the F3, F2 and of course the F1 races this weekend and the difference between the racing in the other to and F1 is stark. These cars simply can't be raced. It doesn't even matter on the track anymore. They can barely get close because of the aero wash and then even when they do they get too hot after a few laps and have to drop back. Even if somebody gets into a position to overtake the braking distances make it almost impossible and the cars are too big and cumbersome through tight corners.

To use a metaphor trying to race in an F1 car is a bit like trying to run the grand national with dressage horses. Brilliant at what they should be doing but not fit for that purpose.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Has anything been officially announced about Bottas' car yet. I don't mean suspicions, but something from Mercedes? I think we all need to hold back a little on Bottas' performance today until we know if the car had an issue or not.
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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Bottas' performance was definitely extremely dull, but Albon finished 15th. They both had very bad days today, but Bottas has had many solid days this season, on a Saturday as well as a Sunday.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:11 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:06 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while
I think Bottas' performances haven't just been slightly better than Albon's but much better. Albon drove another horror show today and some are considering it an achievement that he qualified within roughly 3 tenths of Max, which alone is legitimately humourous.
I don't agree with this, atleast Albon still fights back through the field, Bottas is just weak if he's not running behind Hamilton and even when he is he can't make any impression.

One can name notable overtakes Albon has done I cant remember one for Bottas where he has made an attempt let alone overtake!
This is the only time Bottas has finished behind cars that we generally would say are significantly weaker. (although saying that - Stroll and Gasly got ahead by safety car and the Mclarens seemed 2nd best in qualifying) With Verstappen at the wheel (which is the only other car Bottas has not managed to get by in the end) , that isn't quite as surprising that bottas can't get by given Verstappen's level. Albon has 3 times this year finished a few or many places behind several slower faster cars. And there have also been one or two other occasions where a slightly slower car has beaten him.
Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FormulaFun
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 pm
I've watched all the F3, F2 and of course the F1 races this weekend and the difference between the racing in the other to and F1 is stark. These cars simply can't be raced. It doesn't even matter on the track anymore. They can barely get close because of the aero wash and then even when they do they get too hot after a few laps and have to drop back. Even if somebody gets into a position to overtake the braking distances make it almost impossible and the cars are too big and cumbersome through tight corners.

To use a metaphor trying to race in an F1 car is a bit like trying to run the grand national with dressage horses. Brilliant at what they should be doing but not fit for that purpose.
Gotta agree, these cars are absolute beasts at putting in lap times during quali, obviously the best cars we've ever had, but they are not great for close racing - they are too perfect, running on too fine if a margin

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Problem is Bottas is used as the scapegoat for poor f1 races, poor f1 title battle and a poor f1 season. Bottas will never be as good as one of the best drivers ever who IMO is at his peak atm. Bottas is not worse than Ocon or Albon, that's just getting silly. The only way you get a good F1 title battle is Max and Hamilton in the same car or Redbull sort themselves out, neither dont look like happening soon. Theres so much F1 needs to improve on but it is easier to blame one driver. When you see drivers at a track like Monza having trouble overtaking and having DRS trains then that's not good for F1 and SCs having to be used to spice up a race, Gaslys win has been all over the news in the UK so that's great for F1, something it needed badly and I'm sure Liberty are loving it.
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2018: 12th place

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Mort Canard
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:06 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Bottas has got to be the worst driver in the top 3 or 4 teams including Albon and Ocon...What a waste this Bottas 2.0..got to be the weakest number 2 driver in a while
I think Bottas' performances haven't just been slightly better than Albon's but much better. Albon drove another horror show today and some are considering it an achievement that he qualified within roughly 3 tenths of Max, which alone is legitimately humourous.
:thumbup: :nod:
Mission WinLater

FormulaFun
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

Invade wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:20 pm
Bottas' performance was definitely extremely dull, but Albon finished 15th. They both had very bad days today, but Bottas has had many solid days this season, on a Saturday as well as a Sunday.
Yea but Bottas has equal machinery compared to Hamilton and never ever challenges him during the race, only seems to win when he is able to qualify ahead and hang onto a victory. Albon doesn't have equal machinery to verstappen and it's quite clear that red bull only care about max

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 pm
I've watched all the F3, F2 and of course the F1 races this weekend and the difference between the racing in the other to and F1 is stark. These cars simply can't be raced. It doesn't even matter on the track anymore. They can barely get close because of the aero wash and then even when they do they get too hot after a few laps and have to drop back. Even if somebody gets into a position to overtake the braking distances make it almost impossible and the cars are too big and cumbersome through tight corners.

To use a metaphor trying to race in an F1 car is a bit like trying to run the grand national with dressage horses. Brilliant at what they should be doing but not fit for that purpose.
I haven't watched F2 for ages but decided to this weekend and really enjoyed it, fully agree with you.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

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