2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Invade
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

Mayhem wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:39 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:35 pm
They need to stop waiting and just go for it.... A slightly slower time is better than a terrible one - and you likely will still be able to improve a little. They are waiting too long. Practicing for the repeat of Q3 last year.
Exactly, they are putting themselves in a bad situation
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

All times in Q2 have been set with soft tires so P1 through P10 are starting the race on softs.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mayhem »

Invade wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:43 pm
Mayhem wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:39 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:35 pm
They need to stop waiting and just go for it.... A slightly slower time is better than a terrible one - and you likely will still be able to improve a little. They are waiting too long. Practicing for the repeat of Q3 last year.
Exactly, they are putting themselves in a bad situation
It's mayhem out there.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

The last time neither Ferrari made it into the top 10 in qualifying here was in 1984. x(
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

If Bottas is getting a tow from hamilton on the 2nd run, that probably won't happen as the 2nd run probably won't happen!

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

There you see it. Merc equally full beans in Q2 and Q3. Makes for quite an unusual sight!


Also neither driver got a tow, so I assume they're still 0.9 or maybe 1.0s faster than the next best, still.
Last edited by Invade on Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:50 pm
If Bottas is getting a tow from hamilton on the 2nd run, that probably won't happen as the 2nd run probably won't happen!
Hamilton didn't use Bottas' tow, did Bottas do a fast out lap?

Red Bull Honda seem to be suffering without the qually mode which would be ionic if true. :)
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

why is Hamilton behind Bottas again?

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:54 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:50 pm
If Bottas is getting a tow from hamilton on the 2nd run, that probably won't happen as the 2nd run probably won't happen!
Hamilton didn't use Bottas' tow, did Bottas do a fast out lap?

Red Bull Honda seem to be suffering without the qually mode which would be ionic if true. :)
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:55 pm
why is Hamilton behind Bottas again?
The plot thickens. Will Hamilton try to be closer this time for a real tow? Seems not. Merc are being sporting I have to assume. Hamilton could be way closer than this and going for a real tow but he's refusing.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:55 pm
why is Hamilton behind Bottas again?
If you look he's not going to use the tow from Bottas again, to make it fair for both drivers.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by kleefton »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:54 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:50 pm
If Bottas is getting a tow from hamilton on the 2nd run, that probably won't happen as the 2nd run probably won't happen!
Hamilton didn't use Bottas' tow, did Bottas do a fast out lap?

Red Bull Honda seem to be suffering without the qually mode which would be ionic if true. :)

Somehow you could see that coming. They shot themselves in the foot by pushing for this ban. :uhoh:

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Fair fight between the Mercs but oh my Red Bull, be careful for what you wish for.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

Cautious last sector from Hamilton it seems given the line the camera caught at the end there? Lost some time to Bottas there in not using all the road I guess, but was good enough in the end.

Mercedes and Renault PUs looking good.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mayhem »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
Nothing between them here. Heck of a gut punch
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Sainz = astonishing lap. Best bit of Ferrari news all weekend!!!
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
Bottas has a history of nipping Hamilton by pretty much nothing too over their time together. And it's happened twice this year already. For Lewis over Bottas is it 3 times? Not sure where 5th time this year is coming from. Bottas got smashed at the Styrian GP and was soundly beaten in the British GP.

Edit: My bad I misinterpreted what you said. Yeah that's the 5th time there's been nothing between them: 3-2 to Ham.
Last edited by Invade on Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:02 pm
Sainz = astonishing lap. Best bit of Ferrari news all weekend!!!
He was a tenth up on Norris.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Hamilton saying "you saw how close it was between us all"

He does speak some nonsense at times. Sains was nearly a second behind the front row. It was close between him and Bottas only.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:07 pm
Hamilton saying "you saw how close it was between us all"

He does speak some nonsense at times. Sains was nearly a second behind the front row. It was close between him and Bottas only.
Did Bottas say he finally felt the benefit of the tow at the end of Q2? Mercedes are still basically a second quicker than anyone else.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by purchville »

Interesting change re qualy pace in one week between Renault and McLaren...has the lack of party mode influenced Renault more in a negative way? Or are McLaren risking more in terms of reliability of their Renault engine during the race, and running a more aggressive mode?

It's really interesting behind the Mercs
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

Looks like the party mode ban hit RBR pretty hard. Max is on the third row behind Sainz Jr. and Perez.

Lewis is up 0.8sec. on all the non Merc cars as usual. I can hear Christian Horner's teeth banging together from here. :lol:
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by VettelsFinger »

Hamilton snatches another pole by less than a tenth. I genuinely think bottas is a class driver, but he's just up against someone that is in the conversation for the best ever. To be so close in qualifying quite consistently bottas has to be on his game, it's not like albon being a week behind verstappen over at red bull every week.

On the subject of redbull, they've came out and said they pushed for the banning of 'party mode' and it seems to have effected them more than anyone on the face of this qualifying session. Quite satisfying seeing it tbh as they're looking to reign in the competition through the rule books rather than on track.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Kvyat was rather unlucky there. He was actually on target to improve and had to back off because of Magnussen, but still made it to P11. And even his best Q2 time was faster than gasly's best in Q3. I think he may have managed to beat Gasly this time if it wasn't for the yellows in Q2.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

Hamilton and Bottas laps just compared and it's confirmed - (well, more or less) - that Hamilton was cautious through the Parabolica knowing he was up on on time.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Invade wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:34 pm
Hamilton and Bottas laps just compared and it's confirmed that Hamilton was cautious through the Parabolica knowing he was up on on time.
I don't know why he would be quite that cautious on purpose given he should know that it may not be enough. Had he done that slightly differently, Bottas could have taken it away from him and if this actually was his desision, it almost will have looked silly. Can we actually be sure if he was cautious or just did a neat job?

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Johnson »

It seems that Mercedes have agreed to no tows, the same in Spa. Sending the cars out early and allowing them both free air. Hamilton would have got within 5 seconds of Bottas today otherwise. He was 9-10 seconds back on both runs.

It also means if the lead car brings out a temporary yellow, it should be clear by the time the 2nd car arrives (not allowing for another Austria)

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:37 pm
Invade wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:34 pm
Hamilton and Bottas laps just compared and it's confirmed that Hamilton was cautious through the Parabolica knowing he was up on on time.
I don't know why he would be quite that cautious on purpose given he should know that it may not be enough. Had he done that slightly differently, Bottas could have taken it away from him and if this actually was his desision, it almost will have looked silly. Can we actually be sure if he was cautious or just did a neat job?
Well his neat job was incredibly risk averse. I assume that if he was behind that he'd have used a lot more of the road like pretty much everybody else was doing. It's known that these chaps check the timings during the lap. I reckon he knew he had it in hand and knows that you only gain a little bit by taking the risk, so keep it neat and tidy and secure the pole and don't get a lap deleted. Very comfortable "coast" through the parabolica from Lewis.

PS, what do you make of the running order of the Mercs this weekend and the second driver out more or less refusing to take any tow?
Johnson wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:40 pm
It seems that Mercedes have agreed to no tows, the same in Spa. Sending the cars out early and allowing them both free air. Hamilton would have got within 5 seconds of Bottas today otherwise. He was 9-10 seconds back on both runs.

It also means if the lead car brings out a temporary yellow, it should be clear by the time the 2nd car arrives (not allowing for another Austria)
Hadn't considered that - good point.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:08 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.
No 3 times in total, the other 2 Bottas got the edge, Hamilton just the once this time.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:06 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:02 pm
Sainz = astonishing lap. Best bit of Ferrari news all weekend!!!
He was a tenth up on Norris.
Which gave him a 3 place gain, hence a great lap.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:08 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.
No 3 times in total, the other 2 Bottas got the edge, Hamilton just the once this time.
Spain, Italy and Hungary I guess were Hamilton pipping Bottas. Bottas in Austria and Silverstone 2. So five, if you include Hungary where the gap was 0.107 iirc.

Other gaps were 0.3, 0.5 and 1.2

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:08 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.
No 3 times in total, the other 2 Bottas got the edge, Hamilton just the once this time.
This statement still is true in bold, which is what I meant from the very beginning. Not sure why you seem to be trying to highlight Bottas beating Hamilton and being close no longer means they have been close 5 times. You could argue 1 tenth isn't really close, though I'd still say it is. But that was one reason why I said about 5; because hungary was over a tenth.

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:52 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:06 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:02 pm
Sainz = astonishing lap. Best bit of Ferrari news all weekend!!!
He was a tenth up on Norris.
Which gave him a 3 place gain, hence a great lap.
Astonishing lap.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:54 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:08 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.
No 3 times in total, the other 2 Bottas got the edge, Hamilton just the once this time.
Spain, Italy and Hungary I guess were Hamilton pipping Bottas. Bottas in Austria and Silverstone 2. So five, if you include Hungary where the gap was 0.107 iirc.

Other gaps were 0.3, 0.5 and 1.2
I missed one of Hamilton's, I don't class anything over 1 tenth as being extra close, that comes under astonishing. ;)

So within a tenth that's 2-2 but it's apparently so frustrating for Bottas. :?
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:04 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:08 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:05 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Oh come on. This must be so frustraiting for Bottas. Next to nothing between them for about the 5th time this year is it?
3rd time, the other two times Bottas got the edge.
so that makes 5? I was meaning this specific moment was annoying for Bottas. The couple of times were also really close which is why i included them, despite him beating hamilton.
No 3 times in total, the other 2 Bottas got the edge, Hamilton just the once this time.
This statement still is true in bold, which is what I meant from the very beginning. Not sure why you seem to be trying to highlight Bottas beating Hamilton and being close no longer means they have been close 5 times. You could argue 1 tenth isn't really close, though I'd still say it is. But that was one reason why I said about 5; because hungary was over a tenth.
Yeah I missed the one of Hamilton and I dismiss anything over 1 tenth as being unlucky so that's 2-2 so that's not unlucky on Bottas.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

Yeah, I can agree with a tenth being the threshold. I wonder who has edged the other by less than a tenth more over their time together as teammates?

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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Invade »

From the post qualy presser:

Hamilton was "really happy with the laps, but they're not really anything on the last one I did [Spa]." In another interview, Hamilton also said that Spa 2020 and Singapore (presumably 2018) are the two best laps he can remember performing.

Hamilton claimed Bottas chose to go first in qualifying and Bottas confirmed that was indeed the case. They weren't sure if it was best or not to go for the tow, but then Bottas explains that he did gain time by experiencing the tow at the end of Q2. Bottas:"From our analysis there shouldn't be much of a difference, or maybe even better to be first."

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