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Fiki wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:05 pm

I wonder how much slower the new lap record would have been, had the FIA insisted on track limits.

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:07 pm

I'm curious about Bottas' PU mode. Almost 2 tenths down on Hamilton in S1, I wonder if he used Strat-3 to Hamilton's Strat-2? Regardless, excellent from Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:30 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:07 pm

I'm curious about Bottas' PU mode. Almost 2 tenths down on Hamilton in S1, I wonder if he used Strat-3 to Hamilton's Strat-2? Regardless, excellent from Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo.

Well I noticed that nearly half of the team's drivers were split by around half a second.

Hamilton over Bottas by 0.511
Verstappen over Albon by 0.486
Russell over Latifi by 0.508
Grosjean over Magnussen by 0.476


Seeing all of these, it doesn't seem as surprising that Hamilton beat Bottas by this extent given how perfect his lap was. Given it is also the longest track also hinders your lap if you don't do something totally perfect.

kleefton wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:19 pm

Great lap by Lewis. He might be starting to get into a groove in qualifying. Watch out Valtteri!
When I saw ricc in p3 I thought Max probably didn’t hook up his first lap. He definitely hooked up his second lap though and almost got Bottas. Ricc also did an impressive job Himself. I hope McLaren can give him a proper car. He deserves it.

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:30 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:30 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:07 pm

I'm curious about Bottas' PU mode. Almost 2 tenths down on Hamilton in S1, I wonder if he used Strat-3 to Hamilton's Strat-2? Regardless, excellent from Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo.

Well I noticed that nearly half of the team's drivers were split by around half a second.

Hamilton over Bottas by 0.511
Verstappen over Albon by 0.486
Russell over Latifi by 0.508
Grosjean over Magnussen by 0.476


Seeing all of these, it doesn't seem as surprising that Hamilton beat Bottas by this extent given how perfect his lap was. Given it is also the longest track also hinders your lap if you don't do something totally perfect.

Yeah - Hamilton's lap made for thrilling viewing.

Mort Canard wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:29 pm

Am guessing that Valtteri v. Max will be a very good battle for the first lap. Hope it rains tomorrow!!!

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:19 pm

Fiki wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:05 pm

I wonder how much slower the new lap record would have been, had the FIA insisted on track limits.

It is so frustrating. We already have cars with so much grip that once great corners are now taken with ease, so when track limits are ignored, the radius is increased making some corners pretty easy for F1 cars to take. Less and less is making drivers have to take risks.

Mort Canard wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:52 pm

kleefton wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:19 pm

Great lap by Lewis. He might be starting to get into a groove in qualifying. Watch out Valtteri!
When I saw ricc in p3 I thought Max probably didn’t hook up his first lap. He definitely hooked up his second lap though and almost got Bottas. Ricc also did an impressive job Himself. I hope McLaren can give him a proper car. He deserves it.

Why would McLaren give Ricc a "proper car??? Wouldn't that be Renault???

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:59 am

The FIA need to sort some maximum lap times out. Some cars were almost stopping just before the bus stop chicane.

Monza next week too, that was a laughing stock last year.

kleefton wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:19 pm

Great lap by Lewis. He might be starting to get into a groove in qualifying. Watch out Valtteri!
When I saw ricc in p3 I thought Max probably didn’t hook up his first lap. He definitely hooked up his second lap though and almost got Bottas. Ricc also did an impressive job Himself. I hope McLaren can give him a proper car. He deserves it.

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:26 pm

Just watched Lewis' pole lap from the onboard camera. I think flat through Malmedy, flat through Pouhon with an upshift oart way through and I did not spot a single steering correction heading into or out of a corner. Braking for the Bus Stop looked like me pulling in to a parking spot in the supermarket. The steering wheel didn't move at all it was so stable.

This is clearly brilliant for Lewis and brilliant from Mercedes.

My problem is, qualifying is supposed to be the cars on the ragged edge. If a car can drive that fast and not step out of line on even a single part of a single corner, we have to wonder where this sport is going. As I said, brilliant from car and driver, but where's the excitement of watching a driver battle his way around a circuit. It's kind of sad really. The grip levels drivers expect are now so high that when a car is even slightly difficult to drive because the tyres are a little hot cold or worn, they complain like mad.

I'd love the cars to have less grip and downforce because if pole was a couple of seconds slower and the cars were visible moving around, it would probably look faster to us fans.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:14 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:26 pm

Just watched Lewis' pole lap from the onboard camera. I think flat through Malmedy, flat through Pouhon with an upshift oart way through and I did not spot a single steering correction heading into or out of a corner. Braking for the Bus Stop looked like me pulling in to a parking spot in the supermarket. The steering wheel didn't move at all it was so stable.

This is clearly brilliant for Lewis and brilliant from Mercedes.

My problem is, qualifying is supposed to be the cars on the ragged edge. If a car can drive that fast and not step out of line on even a single part of a single corner, we have to wonder where this sport is going. As I said, brilliant from car and driver, but where's the excitement of watching a driver battle his way around a circuit. It's kind of sad really. The grip levels drivers expect are now so high that when a car is even slightly difficult to drive because the tyres are a little hot cold or worn, they complain like mad.

I'd love the cars to have less grip and downforce because if pole was a couple of seconds slower and the cars were visible moving around, it would probably look faster to us fans.

Isn't that a case of having a car right on the limit, I remember when Gil de Ferran was involved with BAR Honda, he marvelled at Button's pole lap because he didn't make one steering adjustment.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 pm

He'll look as smooth whilst cruising seconds off the pace in the race as well.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:07 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 pm

He'll look as smooth whilst cruising seconds off the pace in the race as well.

He's not going to be driving seconds off the pace. He'll be driving right at the limit of how fast he can go and keep his tyres in the correct window, which is something his teammate would love to be able to do as well...

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:28 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:07 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 pm

He'll look as smooth whilst cruising seconds off the pace in the race as well.

He's not going to be driving seconds off the pace. He'll be driving right at the limit of how fast he can go and keep his tyres in the correct window, which is something his teammate would love to be able to do as well...

Which is seconds off the pace of what the car could actually do hence why you won't see him doing any sliding about. I.E what is relevant to the post I was replying to.

Mort Canard wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:29 pm

Am guessing that Valtteri v. Max will be a very good battle for the first lap. Hope it rains tomorrow!!!

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:06 pm

Any word on whether Merc used their full qualifying mode? Only five tenths from Hamilton to Verstappen suggests they didn’t.

Clarky wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:33 am

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:06 pm

Any word on whether Merc used their full qualifying mode? Only five tenths from Hamilton to Verstappen suggests they didn’t.

Nothing that I have heard but they didn't in Barcelona.

Also downforce levels are very different at this circuit.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:37 am

Clarky wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:33 am

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:06 pm

Any word on whether Merc used their full qualifying mode? Only five tenths from Hamilton to Verstappen suggests they didn’t.

Nothing that I have heard but they didn't in Barcelona.

Also downforce levels are very different at this circuit.

Yeah I did think about that after I posted, there could be some quite varied set ups between the teams. Because of their engine being better than the rest anyway, Merc possibly felt they could run quite a bit more downforce and hence their big advantage in sector 2. Pure speculation but could explain it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in qualifying next week when the qualy mode is banned, I still expect Merc to have the advantage but there's still an element of the unknown.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:14 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:28 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:07 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 pm

He'll look as smooth whilst cruising seconds off the pace in the race as well.

He's not going to be driving seconds off the pace. He'll be driving right at the limit of how fast he can go and keep his tyres in the correct window, which is something his teammate would love to be able to do as well...

Which is seconds off the pace of what the car could actually do hence why you won't see him doing any sliding about. I.E what is relevant to the post I was replying to.

Well you seem to be saying driving smooth is not fast, apparently Hamilton not making steering corrections suggests it's all the car however it being that easy asks the question why was Bottas half a second slower.

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:26 pm

Just watched Lewis' pole lap from the onboard camera. I think flat through Malmedy, flat through Pouhon with an upshift oart way through and I did not spot a single steering correction heading into or out of a corner. Braking for the Bus Stop looked like me pulling in to a parking spot in the supermarket. The steering wheel didn't move at all it was so stable.

This is clearly brilliant for Lewis and brilliant from Mercedes.

My problem is, qualifying is supposed to be the cars on the ragged edge. If a car can drive that fast and not step out of line on even a single part of a single corner, we have to wonder where this sport is going. As I said, brilliant from car and driver, but where's the excitement of watching a driver battle his way around a circuit. It's kind of sad really. The grip levels drivers expect are now so high that when a car is even slightly difficult to drive because the tyres are a little hot cold or worn, they complain like mad.

I'd love the cars to have less grip and downforce because if pole was a couple of seconds slower and the cars were visible moving around, it would probably look faster to us fans.

Rockie wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:04 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:14 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:28 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:07 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 pm

He'll look as smooth whilst cruising seconds off the pace in the race as well.

He's not going to be driving seconds off the pace. He'll be driving right at the limit of how fast he can go and keep his tyres in the correct window, which is something his teammate would love to be able to do as well...

Which is seconds off the pace of what the car could actually do hence why you won't see him doing any sliding about. I.E what is relevant to the post I was replying to.

Well you seem to be saying driving smooth is not fast, apparently Hamilton not making steering corrections suggests it's all the car however it being that easy asks the question why was Bottas half a second slower.

Simple Bottas did a bad job, he was almost beaten by Verstappen!

j man wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:14 am

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:26 pm

Just watched Lewis' pole lap from the onboard camera. I think flat through Malmedy, flat through Pouhon with an upshift oart way through and I did not spot a single steering correction heading into or out of a corner. Braking for the Bus Stop looked like me pulling in to a parking spot in the supermarket. The steering wheel didn't move at all it was so stable.

This is clearly brilliant for Lewis and brilliant from Mercedes.

My problem is, qualifying is supposed to be the cars on the ragged edge. If a car can drive that fast and not step out of line on even a single part of a single corner, we have to wonder where this sport is going. As I said, brilliant from car and driver, but where's the excitement of watching a driver battle his way around a circuit. It's kind of sad really. The grip levels drivers expect are now so high that when a car is even slightly difficult to drive because the tyres are a little hot cold or worn, they complain like mad.

I'd love the cars to have less grip and downforce because if pole was a couple of seconds slower and the cars were visible moving around, it would probably look faster to us fans.

Totally agree, it's something that's become very apparent to me after watching IndyCar. Those cars are significantly slower than the F1 cars on a normal circuit but they look so much faster and more exciting to watch just because the drivers have to battle to stay in control. F1's 2017 rule change has failed on so many levels, it really was so poorly thought out. Rules devised by engineers because it made things interesting for them with no consideration for the spectator experience.

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Bottas more or less had to admit through gritted teeth that his lap was good or at least "clean", which makes you wonder about Hamilton's lap, especially as he was punching the first hole through the air. Hamilton was very happy with lap 1 and then bettered it to his own surprise by 2 tenths with lap 2. Bottas also more or less said at one point that he's just not sure where the large deficit to Hamilton really came from here, I suppose because he felt his own lap was clean.

The pole lap from Hamilton probably didn't stand out as obviously as the Styrian GP pole and I won't say it was as good, but it's probably not far away and his second best lap of the season thus far.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:39 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Bottas more or less had to admit through gritted teeth that his lap was good or at least "clean", which makes you wonder about Hamilton's lap, especially as he was punching the first hole through the air. Hamilton was very happy with lap 1 and then bettered it to his own surprise by 2 tenths with lap 2. Bottas also more or less said at one point that he's just not sure where the large deficit to Hamilton really came from here, I suppose because he felt his own lap was clean.

The pole lap from Hamilton probably didn't stand out as obviously as the Styrian GP pole and I won't say it was as good, but it's probably not far away and his second best lap of the season thus far.

I myself don't know how people can watch laps and say they are incredible, apparently this pole lap is being compared with his pole lap in Singapore 2018, for my part at times I was thinking slow down because you're going to run off the track, it seemed to be very much on the limit.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:39 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Bottas more or less had to admit through gritted teeth that his lap was good or at least "clean", which makes you wonder about Hamilton's lap, especially as he was punching the first hole through the air. Hamilton was very happy with lap 1 and then bettered it to his own surprise by 2 tenths with lap 2. Bottas also more or less said at one point that he's just not sure where the large deficit to Hamilton really came from here, I suppose because he felt his own lap was clean.

The pole lap from Hamilton probably didn't stand out as obviously as the Styrian GP pole and I won't say it was as good, but it's probably not far away and his second best lap of the season thus far.

I myself don't know how people can watch laps and say they are incredible, apparently this pole lap is being compared with his pole lap in Singapore 2018, for my part at times I was thinking slow down because you're going to run off the track, it seemed to be very much on the limit.

Invade wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:22 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:39 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Bottas more or less had to admit through gritted teeth that his lap was good or at least "clean", which makes you wonder about Hamilton's lap, especially as he was punching the first hole through the air. Hamilton was very happy with lap 1 and then bettered it to his own surprise by 2 tenths with lap 2. Bottas also more or less said at one point that he's just not sure where the large deficit to Hamilton really came from here, I suppose because he felt his own lap was clean.

The pole lap from Hamilton probably didn't stand out as obviously as the Styrian GP pole and I won't say it was as good, but it's probably not far away and his second best lap of the season thus far.

I myself don't know how people can watch laps and say they are incredible, apparently this pole lap is being compared with his pole lap in Singapore 2018, for my part at times I was thinking slow down because you're going to run off the track, it seemed to be very much on the limit.

Yeh. I do watch the laps but mainly try to gauge performance based on gap to teammate and comments from drivers. It's hard to know just how good a lap is just from a gap between teammates. Did the worse driver mess up his lap or was he piddling about with mediocre setups in which even with a clean lap he didn't have the pace? Is underperformance flattering the better teammate or did the better teammate put in a peerless performance? So I think it's revealing when a driver more than half a second from his teammate appears confused about the deficit and has no real complaints about his own lap. That sort of info suggests that Hamilton's lap was close to the maximum. Of course, ya also have to take driver comments with a pinch of salt, as they like to make excuses and sometimes downplay their performance when they lose, and might be too high on their performance when they win. I find that Max is often very direct and honest in assessing his own laps, at least he gives off that impression. Impossible to actually know.

Invade wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:29 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:39 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:12 pm

Bottas more or less had to admit through gritted teeth that his lap was good or at least "clean", which makes you wonder about Hamilton's lap, especially as he was punching the first hole through the air. Hamilton was very happy with lap 1 and then bettered it to his own surprise by 2 tenths with lap 2. Bottas also more or less said at one point that he's just not sure where the large deficit to Hamilton really came from here, I suppose because he felt his own lap was clean.

The pole lap from Hamilton probably didn't stand out as obviously as the Styrian GP pole and I won't say it was as good, but it's probably not far away and his second best lap of the season thus far.

I myself don't know how people can watch laps and say they are incredible, apparently this pole lap is being compared with his pole lap in Singapore 2018, for my part at times I was thinking slow down because you're going to run off the track, it seemed to be very much on the limit.

I was reviewing the 1992 season recently and it's hard to make concrete sense of the qualifying performances of Mansell, Senna and Schumacher. They regularly had absolutely massive gaps to their teammates in qualifying of sometimes well over a second, the likes of which we don't really see anymore. How are we supposed to assess who had the best one-lap pace in that year? I find such constantly massive gaps in performance to be quite ridiculous. I appreciate that transparency and detail of data these days is quite the equaliser but seeing such crushing dominance over three different teammates doesn't appear to speak well to the general level to me. Maybe that's unfair but it's just difficult to gauge.