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Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:34 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:16 am
pokerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:42 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:42 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:41 am
How is "let them race without coaching" equalling that people WANT to see cars retiring???
Some clearly want to see a ban on everything, is that not were we started out with Marko?
Whom would that be?
Read the opening post.
I have and that is by no means wanting to get rid of everything. Yet again, you clearly overplay things and basically appear to simply lie on threads.
Agreed, Marko suggests a ban of the radio from the box to the driver and also the telemetry. While I do not agree with the telemetry one, it clearly does not fit the "some want a ban on everything" statement
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:33 pm
by ALESI
What about the younger guys who need help? They can't test anymore, how are they supposed to learn and improve?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:41 pm
by Siao7
ALESI wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:33 pm
What about the younger guys who need help? They can't test anymore, how are they supposed to learn and improve?
Apart from the testing days, simulators, Free Practices and, you know, being amongst the best drivers in the world?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:02 pm
by A.J.
Not often I agree with Marko, but here we are.
The driver coaching is ridiculous. Not to mention the unpredictability is all gone because the telemetry tells the team the temperature of one tyre is 5 degrees above normal, and instantly they pass this info to the driver.
Let the drivers get in the car and figure it out. Keep the telemetry in place to review incidents, but nothing more. And limit engine modes to 3 (full beans, race, frugal) while we're at it.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:14 pm
by Asphalt_World
Siao7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:41 pm
ALESI wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:33 pm
What about the younger guys who need help? They can't test anymore, how are they supposed to learn and improve?
Apart from the testing days, simulators, Free Practices and, you know, being amongst the best drivers in the world?
Exactly. I've no issue with radios being used for test sessions and FP1, 2 and 3. Plus they should not be given an F1 race seat without being good enough to cope without a radio for advice.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
by wire2004
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm
by Asphalt_World
wire2004 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
I'm not too far off being in complete agreement with you.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:44 pm
by Exediron
I, however, could not be further from being in agreement. What you're suggesting is a regressive retro championship, not anything to do with Formula 1.
There is no performance advantage to using a clutch and an H-pattern shifter; exactly the opposite. It's for enthusiasts who love the feel, not for top level racing machines. It would be an absolute farce for the supposed pinnacle of motor racing to be technologically inferior to every other championship on the planet.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:15 pm
by Asphalt_World
Exediron wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:44 pm
I, however, could not be further from being in agreement. What you're suggesting is a regressive retro championship, not anything to do with Formula 1.
There is no performance advantage to using a clutch and an H-pattern shifter; exactly the opposite. It's for enthusiasts who love the feel, not for top level racing machines. It would be an absolute farce for the supposed pinnacle of motor racing to be technologically inferior to every other championship on the planet.
F1 cars have 1.6l engines. Hardly screams F1 in my book. To me, F1 is a spectacle as a whole. It needs to be fast, loud and preferably have lots of action. Currently, it's fast, not very loud and often devoid of enough action. Perhaps an manual shift would allow for the odd slow gear change coupled with one hand having to often be off the wheel. It could make things bloody good to watch.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:42 pm
by Schumacher forever#1
Exediron wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:44 pm
I, however, could not be further from being in agreement. What you're suggesting is a regressive retro championship, not anything to do with Formula 1.
There is no performance advantage to using a clutch and an H-pattern shifter; exactly the opposite. It's for enthusiasts who love the feel, not for top level racing machines. It would be an absolute farce for the supposed pinnacle of motor racing to be technologically inferior to every other championship on the planet.
I agree. Retro F1 is actually a good name for that potential series.
The points on reducing dirty air I do agree with to an extent, but they should be changed with the goal of both better racing and technological advancement.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:42 am
by pokerman
Siao7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:34 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:16 am
pokerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:42 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:42 pm
Some clearly want to see a ban on everything, is that not were we started out with Marko?
Whom would that be?
Read the opening post.
I have and that is by no means wanting to get rid of everything. Yet again, you clearly overplay things and basically appear to simply lie on threads.
Agreed, Marko suggests a ban of the radio from the box to the driver and also the telemetry. While I do not agree with the telemetry one, it clearly does not fit the "some want a ban on everything" statement
A ban on everything from pit to car or am I missing something that will still be allowed?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 am
by pokerman
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm
wire2004 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
I'm not too far off being in complete agreement with you.
So I'm lieing about wanting to ban everything or are we just being pedantic because it was too much of a general statement?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:20 am
by Steam Coat Hun
Exediron wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:44 pm
I, however, could not be further from being in agreement. What you're suggesting is a regressive retro championship, not anything to do with Formula 1.
There is no performance advantage to using a clutch and an H-pattern shifter; exactly the opposite. It's for enthusiasts who love the feel, not for top level racing machines. It would be an absolute farce for the supposed pinnacle of motor racing to be technologically inferior to every other championship on the planet.
I agree, you can't claim to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and running around with a H Pattern shifter and a simplified wheel.
I do agree with the radio ban, except for things you would see on a pit board. So when to pit, gap to leader, car behind etc. Radio should just replace the board. It will put an end to the "Guys, we need a new strategy. My tires are fading. What were you guys thinking? C'mon guys change my strategy" messages
Banning DRS - Agree. It's an artificial overtake device. If they want anything like this, then adopt a Push to Pass button. Im not a fan of PTP, but I prefer it over DRS
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 am
by Asphalt_World
pokerman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm
wire2004 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
I'm not too far off being in complete agreement with you.
So I'm lieing about wanting to ban everything or are we just being pedantic because it was too much of a general statement?
Saying 'everything' is rather a grey statement. I don't want to bad the drivers from having cars to drive.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 pm
by pokerman
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 am
pokerman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm
wire2004 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
I'm not too far off being in complete agreement with you.
So I'm lieing about wanting to ban everything or are we just being pedantic because it was too much of a general statement?
Saying 'everything' is rather a grey statement. I don't want to bad the drivers from having cars to drive.
So you took it literally to call me a liar, nice.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:18 pm
by P-F1 Mod
Can we try keeping it civil now please?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:09 pm
by Asphalt_World
pokerman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:58 am
pokerman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:47 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:13 pm
wire2004 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:42 pm
I do advocate for a complete ban on radio communication. Just use the pit board.
Get rid of most of the telemetry. Literally everything can be seen in the pits.
But why I'm at it. I'd also get rid of.
> Engine modes. You have 1 engine mode for the race. And you can have a quali mode.
> make the steering wheels alot easier. We dont need a binder for the driver and engineer to navigate through to eliminate a potential problem or something.
> I've already said. Bring in a h pattern gearbox again.
> I've already mentioned. Give them a proper foot clutch.
And I'd go further with the car.
> eliminate the 6 planes on the front wing. You can have 1. And no side plates.
> the floor follows the chassis. Not half a yard worth of exposed floor that you can see from the top of the car.
> remove drs.
> 1 eliment for the rear wing. Simplify the aero.
> exhaust gasses are pushed put through the tail pipe under the rear wing. In such a way that it does not allow for the gasses to create any downforce.
It's time to give us man and machine again.
I'm not too far off being in complete agreement with you.
So I'm lieing about wanting to ban everything or are we just being pedantic because it was too much of a general statement?
Saying 'everything' is rather a grey statement. I don't want to bad the drivers from having cars to drive.
So you took it literally to call me a liar, nice.
OK, this is tricky. Am I supposed to understand exactly what you are thinking when you write 'everything'? How on earth am I supposed to know what you specifically mean when there are literally thousands of design and technology features on F1 cars. Seriously, how can I tell what you mean?
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:18 pm
by Asphalt_World
The issue people raise about F1 being the technological pinnacle of motor sport is tricky. To me, it simply isn't that straight forward.
I can personally go out and spend money on a car that has ABS brakes, F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car with traction control. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car with active suspension. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car that brakes certain wheels independently and automatically to assist with cornering, slides etc. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car that brakes for me so I don't hit something in front of me. F1 cars don't have this.
These are features that are available on road cars that aren't all exotic cars or supercars.
Now, I understand the automatic braking really isn't racing at all, but all the other things I've listed could easily be in F1 and to a lessor or greater extent have been in it and have been banned to ensure the drivers are having to earn their money.
Now, I'm not saying this means that the sport should get rid of semi-automatic gearboxes, but to use the reasoning that F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport and therefore should semi-automatic gears, isn't really a great argument. I can understand wanting it for personal reasons, but not because it's technologically advanced. I've seen flappy paddle gearboxes on a few road cars that cost less that 10,000 of your British pounds.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:18 pm
by j man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:18 pm
The issue people raise about F1 being the technological pinnacle of motor sport is tricky. To me, it simply isn't that straight forward.
I can personally go out and spend money on a car that has ABS brakes, F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car with traction control. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car with active suspension. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car that brakes certain wheels independently and automatically to assist with cornering, slides etc. F1 cars don't have this.
I can get a car that brakes for me so I don't hit something in front of me. F1 cars don't have this.
These are features that are available on road cars that aren't all exotic cars or supercars.
Now, I understand the automatic braking really isn't racing at all, but all the other things I've listed could easily be in F1 and to a lessor or greater extent have been in it and have been banned to ensure the drivers are having to earn their money.
Now, I'm not saying this means that the sport should get rid of semi-automatic gearboxes, but to use the reasoning that F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport and therefore should semi-automatic gears, isn't really a great argument. I can understand wanting it for personal reasons, but not because it's technologically advanced. I've seen flappy paddle gearboxes on a few road cars that cost less that 10,000 of your British pounds.
Indeed. In fact the most technologically advanced part of today's F1 cars is the power unit and a lot of people want to get rid of those because they're too complex. Outside of that, there's lots of overly elaborate aerodynamics and some exotic materials but overall there's less "technology" there than on most road cars, it's just that what is there has been over-engineered to the minutest of details.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:38 pm
by mmi16
JN23 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:58 pm
Haven’t they tried banning radio and it didn’t work well? Rosberg got a penalty because they told him what to do to avoid a failure which just seemed daft at Silverstone if I remember correctly. Perhaps they could give it another go, but this time give it more thought beforehand.
When there is no radios in the car there are no 'misunderstandings'. If the engineers want data from the cars - hook up a physical cable to retrieve the data. Make the drivers in charge TOTALLY once the lights go out.
Re: Helmut Marco wants telemetry and radios banned
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:36 am
by pc27b
i think marco saying ban it all is just a starting point, he knows that will never happen, but get the discussions going and meet in the middle somewhere. I am with the rest of you, it has gotten ridiculous, with the never ending coaching.
i like manual gearboxes, no way would the pu manufacturers allow them back though. i sure hope hope that giant "floor" around the car is gone in 2022