PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

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Which driver won each intra-team battle at the 70th Anniversary GP?

Poll ended at Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:57 am

Hamilton
14
7%
Bottas
5
3%
Leclerc
19
10%
Vettel
0
No votes
Verstappen
20
11%
Albon
0
No votes
Sainz
0
No votes
Norris
18
10%
Ricciardo
1
1%
Ocon
18
10%
Gasly
3
2%
Kvyat
13
7%
Hulkenberg
16
9%
Stroll
4
2%
Raikkonen
15
8%
Giovinazzi
4
2%
Magnussen
4
2%
Grosjean
14
7%
Russell
16
9%
Latifi
4
2%
 
Total votes: 188

Jenson's Understeer
Posts: 3555
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:47 pm

PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

After recording our first ever set of results with five zero point votes, we've only had to wait another weekend for the second instance of that happening. Admittedly this time feels a little different as one of those five is Nico Hulkenberg, who was parachuted into Silverstone at the last minute and then didn't get to start the race, meaning the 11-0 defeat he suffered was based pretty much entirely on qualifying.

Elsewhere, four other drivers won with 100% of the vote at the first of two races in Britain. Max Verstappen held Alex Albon to zero votes for the third race in a row; Lewis Hamilton and Daniel Ricciardo prevented their teammates from receiving a vote for the second race in a row; and Charles Leclerc handed Sebastian Vettel his second zero vote result of the season.

After four races, five drivers lead with a perfect 4-0 record: Verstappen, Ricciardo, Gasly, Magnussen and Russell. Three of them (Ricciardo, Verstappen and Russell) have received 93% or more of the votes in their respective TMW. Romain Grosjean's defeat by a single vote has at least shrunk Kevin Magnussen's percentage advantage a little, while Antonio Giovinazzi scored his first TMW win of 2020 at the British GP. And we have two TMW which are tied at 2-2: Ferrari and McLaren. After Lando Norris took the first two TMW votes, Ferrari-bound Carlos Sainz has hit back by taking the next two. Closer still is the score at Ferrari, where Leclerc and Vettel are separated by just five votes with the German currently enjoying a slender advantage.

Statistically, the worst performing drivers of the year so far, at least according to the PF1 Forum? Alex Albon, Nicolas Latifi and Esteban Ocon, who have picked up six, five and four votes each. As mentioned above, Albon has been held without a vote for three races in a row, meaning all six of his votes for the year came in the opening race of the season. With Pierre Gasly looking rejuvenated at Toro Rosso, as well as Nico Hulkenberg and Sergio Perez both potentially being available, could Albon start coming under more pressure?

British GP Vote Results

Mercedes: Hamilton wins with 100% of the vote (23-0)
Ferrari: Leclerc wins with 100% of the vote (20-0)
Red Bull: Verstappen wins with 100% of the vote (22-0)
McLaren: Sainz wins with 68% of the vote (13-6)
Renault: Ricciardo wins with 100% of the vote (23-0)
AlphaTauri: Gasly wins with 90% of the vote (19-2)
Racing Point: Stroll wins with 100% of the vote (11-0)
Alfa Romeo: Giovinazzi wins with 76% of the vote (16-5)
Haas: Magnussen wins with 54% of the vote (7-6)
Williams: Russell wins with 95% of the vote (20-1)

Season Scores

Mercedes: Hamilton leads 3-1 (with 82% of the season vote)
Ferrari: Vettel and Leclerc are tied 2-2 (Vettel has 53% of the season vote)
Red Bull: Verstappen leads 4-0 (with 93% of the season vote)
McLaren: Norris and Sainz are tied 2-2 (Norris has 56% of the season vote)
Renault: Ricciardo leads 4-0 (with 96% of the season vote)
AlphaTauri: Gasly leads 4-0 (with 81% of the season vote)
Racing Point: Perez leads 2-1 (with 63% of the season vote)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen leads 3-1 (with 69% of the season vote)
Haas: Magnussen leads 4-0 (with 79% of the season vote)
Williams: Russell leads 4-0 (with 94% of the season vote)

With the Spanish GP this coming weekend, this poll will run for five days, until Saturday morning.
Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2020: 9th | 2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th

Paolo_Lasardi
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

I have a question regarding the Williams battle: Latifi was ahead of Russell until he pitted 3-4 laps to the end. Why was that? It does not look like a logical strategy at first sight.
Then he quickly approached Russell and was directly behind - but did not try to attack. TO?

pokerman
Posts: 35334
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by pokerman »

If I had voted directly after the race I would have given it to Bottas, it seemed like he had been let down on strategy, but then I thought you can only make an overcut work if you are essentially faster, for some reason Bottas' last stint must have been quite poor and it's not like he was pitted unresonably early, his stints were consistently staggered.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.

Leclerc over Vettel - I thought I would let Vettel off for last weekend, but he has been messy again. I don't think his pace looked bad at all after the spin though - but Ferrari really ruined his strategy and I think he easily could have got some points. The tention between him and the team is growing. He's not doing a great job for the team - but I would say the team is true with the team doing a poor job for him.

Norris over Sainz - Both looked off the pace in qualifying, but Sainz more so. Sainz was a bit unlucky in the pits, but Norris still outperformed him this time out.

Ocon over Ricciardo - Ricciardo's worst weekend for quite some time. I was impressed with him last time out, but I think he isn't as consistent as he used to be. He's made some pretty costly mistakes last year too in several races.

Kvyat over Galsy - As I have thought for most of this season; IMO, Kvyat has the better race pace of the two. He's a bit weak in qualifying while in this car, Gasly seems to be extremely strong. Gasly may have had a strategy that wasn't ideal, but he got his tyres into about the worst state of any driver at one point. Although saying that - Albon managed his tyres far better though Red bull didn't seem to suffer. With no retirements other than magnussen, I think Kvyat maximized his result given where he started - which was 9 places behind Gasly. In the end they did finish incredibly close but I do think even with the strategy Gasly was on, he certainly could have managed his tyres well enough earlier on to manage to beat Kvyat, but he didn't quite manage it.

Stroll over Hulkenberg - If you vote for a driver based on the circumstances that Hulkenberg had, then you certainly could vote for him. But this is team mate wars and despite out qualifying and out racing him almost the entire weekend, Hulkenberg's management seemed to be where he struggled at the end of his 2nd stint. From what I am aware, he was in clean air virtually the entire race and didn't do a single overtake. Despite Stroll being relatively close the whole race, he did manage to look after them better, so in that case, I do think he deserved to finish ahead and gets my vote. He certainly does have a qualifying weekness, but at least some of that problem is made up by the fact he almost always had good starts. It isn't just because he qualifies bad that he makes up places - I really do think Stroll's starts quite a bit better than average a lot of the time.

Raikkonen over Giovinazzi - No doubt that this team along with Haas and Williams are the worst 3 on the grid. I also think the management of this team and hass seem pretty bad in terms of getting the most out of the race a lot of the time. The team really messed up Kimi's race last time out. Kimi's race pace is still there IMO. He managed to finish in the best position of these teams in 15th and was 8 seconds ahead of his team mate, who was split by Grosjean. But he was still 15 seconds of the next car up who was ricciardo. These teams are quite some way back from the others which I think highlights that Haas had quite some pace in Hungary.

Grosjean over Magnussen - I think Grosjean got the most out of the car in qualifying and beat Magnussen by 7 tenths and to be realistic, the only other car he could have got was Kimi in the race. He was around 5 seconds behind, but still, for the pace of the car this was a solid weekend by Grosjean. His start was possibly what let him down a bit as it looked like he possibly fell back a few places while magnussen had the best start of anyone. Grosjean did soon catch Magnussen and got within DRS but then Magnussen pitted on lap 10 so it was an easy pass for grosjean. Several laps after magnussen's stop, he seemed to be under pressure from Latifi. And he made the mistake of going too wide and going of track and suddenly lunged back on. If Latifi didn't take avoiding action, that will have been a fair wallop there. It earned him a 5 second penalty. When he took this, they also changed tyres and he ran in last after that. And that was apparently all the suitable tyres they had left. Due to them wearing so fast, he couldn't go to the end and they apparently retired him due do a lack of new tyres. Not sure weather that was his fault or the teams, but still, poor weekend from him. His start was his only positive.

Not sure about the williams drivers - (so haven't done my votes yet) - I didn't really follow their race, but they both did 3 stops, and Latifi was all over the back of Russell on the last 2 laps. The graphics said 0.3 seconds at one point. From reading on Williams' site, Latifi seemed happier with his car on race day. Will need to find out more, but it was certainly his best weekend so far. Although saying that, Russell simply fell backwards so the opposite may be true for him.

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:59 am
If I had voted directly after the race I would have given it to Bottas, it seemed like he had been let down on strategy, but then I thought you can only make an overcut work if you are essentially faster, for some reason Bottas' last stint must have been quite poor and it's not like he was pitted unresonably early, his stints were consistently staggered.
One thing that could have made a difference was bottas knowing that hamilton was going long. He wasn't even told. He did say that he could have gone quicker, but was told to manage his tyres. You can say he shouldn't always listen to his team, but given the mess the tyres can get into here, maybe that is why he listened. If he knew Hamilton was doing what he did, I think he will have pushed harder as he implied.

pokerman
Posts: 35334
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:59 am
If I had voted directly after the race I would have given it to Bottas, it seemed like he had been let down on strategy, but then I thought you can only make an overcut work if you are essentially faster, for some reason Bottas' last stint must have been quite poor and it's not like he was pitted unresonably early, his stints were consistently staggered.
One thing that could have made a difference was bottas knowing that hamilton was going long. He wasn't even told. He did say that he could have gone quicker, but was told to manage his tyres. You can say he shouldn't always listen to his team, but given the mess the tyres can get into here, maybe that is why he listened. If he knew Hamilton was doing what he did, I think he will have pushed harder as he implied.
I'm not sure what to believe with Bottas, he thinks he could have beaten Verstappen with a better strategy.

Bottas could have gone quicker on his final stint if he had known what Hamilton was doing, well guess what he himself said that he started to go quicker later in the stint to try and catch Verstappen and believed he was catching, but guess what, he ran out of tyres.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

JN23
Posts: 2379
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.

F1_Ernie
Posts: 3730
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by F1_Ernie »

Bottas wasn't winning yesterday any strategy he was using. His been making some wierd comments this season after every race he has finished behind Hamilton.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.

JN23
Posts: 2379
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:52 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:59 am
If I had voted directly after the race I would have given it to Bottas, it seemed like he had been let down on strategy, but then I thought you can only make an overcut work if you are essentially faster, for some reason Bottas' last stint must have been quite poor and it's not like he was pitted unresonably early, his stints were consistently staggered.
One thing that could have made a difference was bottas knowing that hamilton was going long. He wasn't even told. He did say that he could have gone quicker, but was told to manage his tyres. You can say he shouldn't always listen to his team, but given the mess the tyres can get into here, maybe that is why he listened. If he knew Hamilton was doing what he did, I think he will have pushed harder as he implied.
I'm not sure what to believe with Bottas, he thinks he could have beaten Verstappen with a better strategy.

Bottas could have gone quicker on his final stint if he had known what Hamilton was doing, well guess what he himself said that he started to go quicker later in the stint to try and catch Verstappen and believed he was catching, but guess what, he ran out of tyres.
I don't belive he had any chance of beating Verstappen, and neither did toto think mercedes had a chance of winning when asked after the race. But I do think Bottas could have beaten hamilton had hamilton done the same as him - which Hamilton sounded like he wanted to do. But Mercedes were right to poitnt out that there was life left in the tyres, and Hamilton benifitted from this.

TheGiantHogweed
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.

F1_Ernie
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by F1_Ernie »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
I never take much notice of what Hamilton says on the radio and im a fan.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

JN23
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
Bottas over Hamilton - This was extremely close and can see it being that way with the votes too. Bottas edged him in qualifying and hamilton may have had more speed - but there was very little in it. The speed made his tyres suffer so he dropped back in both the 1st and 2nd stint. Both times it looked like his tyres were worse which is understandable, but I'm sure Bottas could have gone longer given what mercedes found out with the tyres. They did the right thing with Hamilton - and Hamilton maximised it. But I would argue Bottas did all he could and did deserve 2nd.
Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
It’s possible that Hamilton wasn’t happy with his tyres because of the blisters which Mercedes said just affected performance and they didn’t think were at risk of a failure. If Hamilton has a vibration like Bottas I’m sure they’d have pitted him.

TheGiantHogweed
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:44 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:54 am


Are you ignoring the reasoning for the timing of Bottas’ second stop? It seemingly isn’t to do with what was left in his tyres but to do with vibrations.
But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
It’s possible that Hamilton wasn’t happy with his tyres because of the blisters which Mercedes said just affected performance and they didn’t think were at risk of a failure. If Hamilton has a vibration like Bottas I’m sure they’d have pitted him.
Why was there no radio broadcast for Bottas pitting or reporting it effecting his pace though? I can say that given the strategy Hamilton used, he should get credit for maximising it, but throughout qualifying and most of the race, I think Bottas did enough to warrant the vote over him. Hamilton was dropping off to as much as 7 seconds before Bottas pitted. This may have been to manage his pace, but I still think Bottas could have managed enough extra laps to beat hamilton on merit. Also the fact he wasn't even told hamilton was doing the long stint was pretty unfair IMO. He quite possibly will have pushed harder at times having known this

JN23
Posts: 2379
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:54 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:44 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:25 pm


But Hamilton didn't sound happy either?? and he also sounded like he wanted to pit but Mercedes wanted him to stay out. None of Bottas's messages about this was broadcast so I'm not yet convinced Bottas came in because of this as he said after the race that he could have gone longer.
Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
It’s possible that Hamilton wasn’t happy with his tyres because of the blisters which Mercedes said just affected performance and they didn’t think were at risk of a failure. If Hamilton has a vibration like Bottas I’m sure they’d have pitted him.
Why was there no radio broadcast for Bottas pitting or reporting it effecting his pace though? I can say that given the strategy Hamilton used, he should get credit for maximising it, but throughout qualifying and most of the race, I think Bottas did enough to warrant the vote over him. Hamilton was dropping off to as much as 7 seconds before Bottas pitted. This may have been to manage his pace, but I still think Bottas could have managed enough extra laps to beat hamilton on merit. Also the fact he wasn't even told hamilton was doing the long stint was pretty unfair IMO. He quite possibly will have pushed harder at times having known this
I’m not going to argue who gets the vote, can see it either way. Bottas deserves credit for qualifying and Hamilton does for his laps at the end of his second stint. Just wanted to point out why Bottas pitted when he did and why Hamilton could go longer.

No idea why there was no radio broadcast, but that isn’t something new/specific to this case.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:01 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:54 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:44 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm


Hamilton didn’t have vibrations so Mercedes had no need to pit him.
Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
It’s possible that Hamilton wasn’t happy with his tyres because of the blisters which Mercedes said just affected performance and they didn’t think were at risk of a failure. If Hamilton has a vibration like Bottas I’m sure they’d have pitted him.
Why was there no radio broadcast for Bottas pitting or reporting it effecting his pace though? I can say that given the strategy Hamilton used, he should get credit for maximising it, but throughout qualifying and most of the race, I think Bottas did enough to warrant the vote over him. Hamilton was dropping off to as much as 7 seconds before Bottas pitted. This may have been to manage his pace, but I still think Bottas could have managed enough extra laps to beat hamilton on merit. Also the fact he wasn't even told hamilton was doing the long stint was pretty unfair IMO. He quite possibly will have pushed harder at times having known this
I’m not going to argue who gets the vote, can see it either way. Bottas deserves credit for qualifying and Hamilton does for his laps at the end of his second stint. Just wanted to point out why Bottas pitted when he did and why Hamilton could go longer.

No idea why there was no radio broadcast, but that isn’t something new/specific to this case.
Yep, fair enough. sorry for dragging it out so much.

JN23
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:03 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:01 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:54 pm
JN23 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:44 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:31 pm


Sorry, but Hamilton was not sounding AT ALL happy with his tyres right after Bottas pitted. He said "something's wrong with the car to make the left rear do that" This wasn't the only complaint from Hamilton. He sounded like he wanted to pit and Mercedes advised him to stay out. Mercedes were right to do this. But it was this that got Hamilton the advantage over Bottas IMO and if Hamilton got his way, I think he will have pitted 1 or 2 laps after Bottas.
It’s possible that Hamilton wasn’t happy with his tyres because of the blisters which Mercedes said just affected performance and they didn’t think were at risk of a failure. If Hamilton has a vibration like Bottas I’m sure they’d have pitted him.
Why was there no radio broadcast for Bottas pitting or reporting it effecting his pace though? I can say that given the strategy Hamilton used, he should get credit for maximising it, but throughout qualifying and most of the race, I think Bottas did enough to warrant the vote over him. Hamilton was dropping off to as much as 7 seconds before Bottas pitted. This may have been to manage his pace, but I still think Bottas could have managed enough extra laps to beat hamilton on merit. Also the fact he wasn't even told hamilton was doing the long stint was pretty unfair IMO. He quite possibly will have pushed harder at times having known this
I’m not going to argue who gets the vote, can see it either way. Bottas deserves credit for qualifying and Hamilton does for his laps at the end of his second stint. Just wanted to point out why Bottas pitted when he did and why Hamilton could go longer.

No idea why there was no radio broadcast, but that isn’t something new/specific to this case.
Yep, fair enough. sorry for dragging it out so much.
No problem :thumbup:

mikeyg123
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
Looked at Hulk's strategy before that last stop. He wasn't given a good one.

Azi
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by Azi »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
I didn't vote for Hulk relative to his experience in that car, I voted based on his performance across the whole weekend. He did an excellent job, full stop. He was much faster than Stroll in qualifying and only the dubious late pit stop dropped him behind Stroll at the end.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Azi wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:42 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
I didn't vote for Hulk relative to his experience in that car, I voted based on his performance across the whole weekend. He did an excellent job, full stop. He was much faster than Stroll in qualifying and only the dubious late pit stop dropped him behind Stroll at the end.
The pit stop was the reason he was behind Stroll, but not the main reason. The reason behind the "dubious" pit stop was that Hulkenberg couldn't manage his tyres despite being in clean air the entire stint. Even Though Stroll was in dirty air, he kept his tyres in good condition - therefore didn't need to pit and due to this - he earned himself this position. Credit should still go to Hulkenberg given his circumstances as he in inexperienced, but strictly speaking, Stroll did manage the tyres better which resulted in him beating Hulkenberg, meaning that to me it is clear Stroll should get the vote.
Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:25 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
Looked at Hulk's strategy before that last stop. He wasn't given a good one.
Did he use different tyres to Stroll? Their first pit stops were 3 laps apart with hulkenberg going first. Their next stop was 1 lap apart with hulkenberg first. He had tyres that were 1 lap older than Stroll and he had the clean air. I don't really get the disadvantage he had strategy wise relative to Stroll unless you know he had a worse compound at any point (obviously not including the last stint).

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by WHoff78 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
Can I ask how you can say so confidently that Hulk was pitted because of the vibrations, yet you argue at the same time vibrations on Valteri's car were not really a factor in his strategy and he could have gone longer?

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

WHoff78 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:24 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
It does look like the Hulkengerg votes are going the way I expected. Looking at it from the point of view like this: Which driver won the battle? Well it was Stroll clearly with RP's report. Hulkenberg got serious vibration that couldn't make it to the end despite being in clean air the entire race. Stroll admittedly didn't look quicker (which is poor from his side) but despite being in the dirty air, he managed his tyres a lot better, therefore earned his position back. Judging things that way, I don't know how anybody can say Hulkenberg won the team mate war.

If we judge him based on his lack of experience, we can certainly say he did an excellent job, but the only reason for voting given what happened in the end IMO can only be votes of respect rather than his end result which to me don't make sense. As his tyre management forced him to make an unexpected pit stop.
Can I ask how you can say so confidently that Hulk was pitted because of the vibrations, yet you argue at the same time vibrations on Valteri's car were not really a factor in his strategy and he could have gone longer?
Hulkenberg said after the race that the vibrations were extremely bad and the team confirmed that it was unlikely he would make it to the end without pitting. https://twitter.com/RacingPointF1/statu ... 020_-_Race

Bottas when he pitted was slightly quicker than hamilton. Hamilton will have been managing - but still, if Bottas was still this much quicker, he easily will have been able to manage an extra few laps which likely will have kept him the position ahead of Hamilton. As I mentioned earlier, Bottas also wasn't told that hamilton was going long so he may have changed his approach a little if he knew. I think that and pitting a little later will have been enough for Bottas to beat hamilton.

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by WHoff78 »

Hulk consistently lapped in the 1.31s on his third stint, from Lap 32 to 44. Suggests he was managing his pace nicely.

I’m not sure that you can tell from Hulk, Bottas or Hamilton’s lap times whether there were underlying issues that forced them to pit at a particular time or not.

Bottas was hovering around the 1.32s on his second stint from Lap 19 to 28, before putting in several 1.30s immediately prior to the stop. Hamilton was also lapping in the 1.32s, but then dropped into the 1.31s and 1.30s from Lap 28 to 41, suggesting that despite the concerns he was comfortable at that lap time.

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Invade
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by Invade »

I do wonder how this race would have panned out had Hamilton started on pole.

pokerman
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: 70th Anniversary GP 2020

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:52 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 am
pokerman wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:59 am
If I had voted directly after the race I would have given it to Bottas, it seemed like he had been let down on strategy, but then I thought you can only make an overcut work if you are essentially faster, for some reason Bottas' last stint must have been quite poor and it's not like he was pitted unresonably early, his stints were consistently staggered.
One thing that could have made a difference was bottas knowing that hamilton was going long. He wasn't even told. He did say that he could have gone quicker, but was told to manage his tyres. You can say he shouldn't always listen to his team, but given the mess the tyres can get into here, maybe that is why he listened. If he knew Hamilton was doing what he did, I think he will have pushed harder as he implied.
I'm not sure what to believe with Bottas, he thinks he could have beaten Verstappen with a better strategy.

Bottas could have gone quicker on his final stint if he had known what Hamilton was doing, well guess what he himself said that he started to go quicker later in the stint to try and catch Verstappen and believed he was catching, but guess what, he ran out of tyres.
I don't belive he had any chance of beating Verstappen, and neither did toto think mercedes had a chance of winning when asked after the race. But I do think Bottas could have beaten hamilton had hamilton done the same as him - which Hamilton sounded like he wanted to do. But Mercedes were right to poitnt out that there was life left in the tyres, and Hamilton benifitted from this.
It still doesn't mean that Hamilton's strategy was better, Bottas had the optimum 13M-19H-20H strategy.
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