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A thread to discuss the feeder series, as requested in the silly season thread.

Is it just me or is Ticktum a bit of a prat? Doesn’t seem to have changed his attitude much since that ban.

Really like the look of Schwartzman and Lundgaard though, hope there’s a place for them on next years grid. RS probably has the best chance at Alfa, seems to have the better of Mick right now.

I'm not sure Schwartzman has. Schumacher has beaten him more often than not recently. That being said Mick needs some big results and soon. The Prema boys don't seem happy here. If Ilott wins the championship then Ferrari have a bit of a problem. I have a soft spot for Tsunoda but I don't really know why. I guess it' jut that Japanese drivers have always been good value.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:13 pm

Armstrong hasn't impressed me at all in F2 so far. I was expecting him and Schwarzman to be the big fight, but so far it looks like only one of them has even turned up.

I guess it shows what a Prema F3 seat can do for you.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:58 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:24 pm

In that case Zhou needs to get his finger out, he's presently 6th in the series.

And without a piece of bad luck in Austria would very likely be first or second. It's a close championship. He was on for pole yesterday before the yellow flag came out as well.

He started 6th and finished 9th, were was the race pace?

Not a good day for him. Definitely his worst feature race this year. Doesn't mean he wasn't up on pole in the first two sectors before being halted by the yellow flags on Friday though.

j man wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:50 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:34 pm

For what I've seen of Ticktum this season he's been 100% fair in his driving.

I've been hearing that the team are happy with him as well, he's working well with the engineers and has applied himself well off the track. He does seem to have matured and learned from his mistakes, and I don't think it's fair to condemn someone for something they did at 16.


Regarding the rest of the F2 field, no one is really standing out at the moment which could just mean that none of them are particularly special. Lundgaard is probably just edging it for me as the most impressive driver so far, he's less experienced than the rest of the field and has been consistently in the points, and should be leading the championship if not for Ghiotto's idiocy in Hungary.

Unfortunately he had various rants on the radio when he was falling back in the race.

Remarkably Ghiotto never got penalised for it, Grosjean got a warning and he never hit anyone.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:19 am

Not a good day for him. Definitely his worst feature race this year. Doesn't mean he wasn't up on pole in the first two sectors before being halted by the yellow flags on Friday though.

Then again it happens when you don't have a strong first run, even sometimes when you do, Lundgaard was in contention for pole in the wet qualifying at Hungary, he was second just behind Schumacher, they both pitted early for fresh tyres but neither managed another lap because of a yellow flag and then a red flag, they finished 5th and 6th.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:08 pm

I'm not sure Schwartzman has. Schumacher has beaten him more often than not recently. That being said Mick needs some big results and soon. The Prema boys don't seem happy here. If Ilott wins the championship then Ferrari have a bit of a problem. I have a soft spot for Tsunoda but I don't really know why. I guess it' jut that Japanese drivers have always been good value.

Tsunoda had some good races in F3 last year as well, one of the few drivers to stand out amongst the Prema monopoly.

What a race and astonishing final lap, that was this morning. That's how you race but give racing room at the same time. Brilliant.

Brilliant end to the F3. I’d have to say that’s Mick’s fault on the Prema collision in F2.

F2 is fascinating this year. Anyone in the top 9 of the championship have a realistic chance of winning it.

Schumacher has a penalty coming here I think. He's committed the cardinal sin. Apologising.

Banana Man wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:49 am

Brilliant end to the F3. I’d have to say that’s Mick’s fault on the Prema collision in F2.

Yeah it seemed obvious to me as well but were they going to penalise young Schumacher?

Lundgaard destoyed his front tyre with countless lock ups.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:53 am

F2 is fascinating this year. Anyone in the top 9 of the championship have a realistic chance of winning it.

Schumacher has a penalty coming here I think. He's committed the cardinal sin. Apologising.

He's certainly not like his father in that repect which I like, I think it highlights the lack of interest in penalising Schumacher.

Unlike last year this year is a strong grid.

I'm surprised that Pouchaire was able to keep his 3rd place in the F3 race, he got a warning for excessive weaving and double movements, then on the last lap he was all 4 wheels off the track in order to defend his position.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:26 am

j man wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:50 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:34 pm

For what I've seen of Ticktum this season he's been 100% fair in his driving.

I've been hearing that the team are happy with him as well, he's working well with the engineers and has applied himself well off the track. He does seem to have matured and learned from his mistakes, and I don't think it's fair to condemn someone for something they did at 16.


Regarding the rest of the F2 field, no one is really standing out at the moment which could just mean that none of them are particularly special. Lundgaard is probably just edging it for me as the most impressive driver so far, he's less experienced than the rest of the field and has been consistently in the points, and should be leading the championship if not for Ghiotto's idiocy in Hungary.

Unfortunately he had various rants on the radio when he was falling back in the race.

Remarkably Ghiotto never got penalised for it, Grosjean got a warning and he never hit anyone.

Yep I take that back about Ticktum, the red mist descended again this weekend. It's a shame as the talent is definitely there.

How can Schumacher escape a penalty for this manouevre?

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm

How can Schumacher escape a penalty for this manouevre?

It seemed to take 10 seconds to call it a racing incident, how closely did they even look?

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm

How can Schumacher escape a penalty for this manouevre?

To be honest I thought it was more Shwartzman's fault. The move was done and he should've backed out, there's little to be gained from inching the nose up the inside going into a corner. Schumacher was just following the racing line.

Anyway racing incident for me and no penalty was warranted. Both drivers could have avoided it.

It wasn't done. Hence Schumacher took his front wing. You shouldn't be able to just turn into another car just because you think they should really back out of it.

j man wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:48 pm

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm

How can Schumacher escape a penalty for this manouevre?

To be honest I thought it was more Shwartzman's fault. The move was done and he should've backed out, there's little to be gained from inching the nose up the inside going into a corner. Schumacher was just following the racing line.

Anyway racing incident for me and no penalty was warranted. Both drivers could have avoided it.

No way. Schumacher just sharply crossed into him as if he was not there.

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:52 pm

j man wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:48 pm

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm

How can Schumacher escape a penalty for this manouevre?

To be honest I thought it was more Shwartzman's fault. The move was done and he should've backed out, there's little to be gained from inching the nose up the inside going into a corner. Schumacher was just following the racing line.

Anyway racing incident for me and no penalty was warranted. Both drivers could have avoided it.

No way. Schumacher just sharply crossed into him as if he was not there.

It looked to me like he took the normal line into the corner, and Shwartzman shouldn't have been there. The position was lost at that point.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:52 pm

It wasn't done. Hence Schumacher took his front wing. You shouldn't be able to just turn into another car just because you think they should really back out of it.

It was done in that I don't see how Shwartzman could have regained the position from that far back. Any driver who attempts a normal overtake whilst only being a few inches alongside in the braking zone would be blamed for any ensuing contact, and I don't think it should be treated differently just because he has just been overtaken.

Shwartzman can't just evaporate though. He's on the inside. Schumacher thought he was all the way passed and he wasn't. He's even admitted as much.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:24 pm

Shwartzman can't just evaporate though. He's on the inside. Schumacher thought he was all the way passed and he wasn't. He's even admitted as much.

Yeah, agreed. It was probably unwise of Schwartzman not to have backed out, but that doesn't absolve Schumacher of fault for hitting him. A bit like Monza in 2017, when Massa hit Verstappen at the chicane. I thought it was unwise of Max to have kept his nose in when it was pretty clear Massa wasn't going to give him room, but it was still Massa's fault for doing it.

On a note unrelated to the Prema collision, if I was Daniil Kvyat I'd be feeling pretty threatened by Tsunoda's form. Honda would really like a Japanese driver in F1, and there's at least one seat presumably open at Alpha Tauri for a Red Bull-backed F2 champion...

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:02 am

On a note unrelated to the Prema collision, if I was Daniil Kvyat I'd be feeling pretty threatened by Tsunoda's form. Honda would really like a Japanese driver in F1, and there's at least one seat presumably open at Alpha Tauri for a Red Bull-backed F2 champion...

I've just been working out his super license points, from the last 2 years he has 24 points so needs to finish 5th in F2 and he's presently 6th so it's very much doable but the competition is quite stiff.

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:04 am

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:52 pm

Big oof from Ticktum today and quite topical. Dan threatened to crash a driver off the track (sorry can't recall whom).

Lundgaard keeps churning out the results and Zhou underwhelms me yet again — sorry! Illot simply seems quicker and better right now. Zhou was the guy I've typically seen touted across the webz and the motorsphere so perhaps I'm expecting too much.


So is there a thread where we can talk 2020 F3 and F2?

I think his words can be taken in two ways actually. I don't like Ticktum, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt here

He's saying he won't avoid a collision, but his choice of words and his intonation do him no favours. Regardless it was poor form and a genuine tantrum.

But yes he was not saying he'd go out of his way to crash a driver off the track. He gets no benefit of the doubt over his short fuse though - he still needs to seriously work on that.


***

Quoting and bringing this line of discussion into the appropriate F2 F3 thread.

I'm pretty much a Tsunoda fan and indeed he's in with a good shot of F1 I'd say given Honda's involvement in F1. He appears to be very quick, quite mercurial. A bit of x-factor to him perhaps, though not the best driver in the field.

As for the collision between Schumacher and Shwartzman, I place the blame squarely on Schumacher. He showed a distinct lack of awareness. Or perhaps he was trying to bully his way into position, but I reckon it was simply a lack of vision and an assumption of expected driver behaviour from Shwartzman, who did float his car out there.

Shwartzman is often strong in races but has not been anything close to a top performer in qualifying thus far. For him it's a significant relative weakness to date, and there's nothing to suggest he'll suddenly overturn this deficit and thus I highly doubt he'll win the F2 Championship.

Invade wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:59 pm

I'm pretty much a Tsunoda fan and indeed he's in with a good shot of F1 I'd say given Honda's involvement in F1. He appears to be very quick, quite mercurial. A bit of x-factor to him perhaps, though not the best driver in the field.

As for the collision between Schumacher and Shwartzman, I place the blame squarely on Schumacher. He showed a distinct lack of awareness. Or perhaps he was trying to bully his way into position, but I reckon it was simply a lack of vision and an assumption of expected driver behaviour from Shwartzman, who did float his car out there.

Shwartzman is often strong in races but has not been anything close to a top performer in qualifying thus far. For him it's a significant relative weakness to date, and there's nothing to suggest he'll suddenly overturn this deficit and thus I highly doubt he'll win the F2 Championship.

Swap the very and the quite round and that's about every Japanese driver with had since the late 90's

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:41 pm

Invade wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:59 pm

I'm pretty much a Tsunoda fan and indeed he's in with a good shot of F1 I'd say given Honda's involvement in F1. He appears to be very quick, quite mercurial. A bit of x-factor to him perhaps, though not the best driver in the field.

As for the collision between Schumacher and Shwartzman, I place the blame squarely on Schumacher. He showed a distinct lack of awareness. Or perhaps he was trying to bully his way into position, but I reckon it was simply a lack of vision and an assumption of expected driver behaviour from Shwartzman, who did float his car out there.

Shwartzman is often strong in races but has not been anything close to a top performer in qualifying thus far. For him it's a significant relative weakness to date, and there's nothing to suggest he'll suddenly overturn this deficit and thus I highly doubt he'll win the F2 Championship.

Swap the very and the quite round and that's about every Japanese driver with had since the late 90's

- you're not wrong!

I think the Schumacher incident is getting far more coverage that it should, I guess because of his name. Yes, he came across a little early but cars in F3, F2 and F1 all passed around the outside last weekend and move across to take the line. Yep, a mistake maybe, but hardly worth more than a passing comment in my opinion.

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:30 pm

I think the Schumacher incident is getting far more coverage that it should, I guess because of his name. Yes, he came across a little early but cars in F3, F2 and F1 all passed around the outside last weekend and move across to take the line. Yep, a mistake maybe, but hardly worth more than a passing comment in my opinion.

I think a mistake where you wipe out your teammate while headed for a 1-2 is worth talking about. I don't see anyone calling for his head or anything.

If we disentangle the three F2 disciplines (which all have their caveats in measuring driver performance, i.e. pit strategy, tyre management/ experience, reversed grid ...), the following picture shows:

Qualifying (average qualifying position):
1. Ilott 2
2. Zhou 4
3. Lundgaard 4.8
4. Schumacher 6
5. Ghiotto 6.2
6. Aitken 7.2
7. Drugovich 8.6
8. Ticktum 8.8
9. Tsunoda 9.2
10. Daruvala 10.2
11. Shwartzman 10.8
12. Mazepin 11.6

Feature Race (without extra points):
1. Ilott 78
2. Shwartzman 69
3. Mazepin 57
4. Lundgaard 50
5. Zhou 44
6. Tsunoda 41
7. Schumacher 35
8. Delétraz 30
9. Drugovich 25
10. Armstrong 24

Sprint Race:
1. Ticktum 39
2. Delétraz & Lundgaard 34
4. Schumacher 25
5. Ilott 22
6. Drugovich 19
7. Zhou 17
8. Aitken & Shwartzman 16
10. Tsunoda & Ghiotto 15

So, Ilott, Zhou, Lundgaard quickest over one lap; Lundgaard only inexperienced driver in the top 6.

Ilott commands the feature races but leaves points in the sprint races. Zhou did not make much out of his qualifying efforts. And Ticktum is the sprint race king,.

All so far, of course. Things can quickly change.

Invade wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:55 pm

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:04 am

Invade wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:52 pm

Big oof from Ticktum today and quite topical. Dan threatened to crash a driver off the track (sorry can't recall whom).

Lundgaard keeps churning out the results and Zhou underwhelms me yet again — sorry! Illot simply seems quicker and better right now. Zhou was the guy I've typically seen touted across the webz and the motorsphere so perhaps I'm expecting too much.


So is there a thread where we can talk 2020 F3 and F2?

I think his words can be taken in two ways actually. I don't like Ticktum, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt here

He's saying he won't avoid a collision, but his choice of words and his intonation do him no favours. Regardless it was poor form and a genuine tantrum.

But yes he was not saying he'd go out of his way to crash a driver off the track. He gets no benefit of the doubt over his short fuse though - he still needs to seriously work on that.


***

Quoting and bringing this line of discussion into the appropriate F2 F3 thread.

Well he does get referred to as Dick Tantrum.

Ilott looking decent again. Ferrari have a real dilemma if he wins F2.

Ilott is looking comfortably the fastest in the F2 field at the moment, he is mixing it at the front every race weekend while the others seem to come and go. On current form, out of the Ferrari academy he would deserve the Alfa seat and Shwartzman etc would need to wait another year. Today aside, Shwartzman has not demonstrated enough in qualifying to deserve an F1 seat yet in my opinion.

j man wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:53 pm

Ilott is looking comfortably the fastest in the F2 field at the moment, he is mixing it at the front every race weekend while the others seem to come and go. On current form, out of the Ferrari academy he would deserve the Alfa seat and Shwartzman etc would need to wait another year. Today aside, Shwartzman has not demonstrated enough in qualifying to deserve an F1 seat yet in my opinion.

Shwartzman actually qualified well today, although it's a spec series I'm not confinced that the teams are equal, I would say that Ilott's in the best car/team.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:34 pm

j man wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:53 pm

Ilott is looking comfortably the fastest in the F2 field at the moment, he is mixing it at the front every race weekend while the others seem to come and go. On current form, out of the Ferrari academy he would deserve the Alfa seat and Shwartzman etc would need to wait another year. Today aside, Shwartzman has not demonstrated enough in qualifying to deserve an F1 seat yet in my opinion.

Shwartzman actually qualified well today, although it's a spec series I'm not confinced that the teams are equal, I would say that Ilott's in the best car/team.

The Prema and Uni drivers are consistently fast. Those are probably either the best two teams or the best 4 drivers. I could believe either.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:15 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:34 pm

j man wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:53 pm

Ilott is looking comfortably the fastest in the F2 field at the moment, he is mixing it at the front every race weekend while the others seem to come and go. On current form, out of the Ferrari academy he would deserve the Alfa seat and Shwartzman etc would need to wait another year. Today aside, Shwartzman has not demonstrated enough in qualifying to deserve an F1 seat yet in my opinion.

Shwartzman actually qualified well today, although it's a spec series I'm not confinced that the teams are equal, I would say that Ilott's in the best car/team.

The Prema and Uni drivers are consistently fast. Those are probably either the best two teams or the best 4 drivers. I could believe either.

I'm not convinced by the back story of Ilott for him to be so far ahead of the field, you expanded to some other drivers some who are trailing other drivers in the series so that confuses me a bit.