2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

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Invade
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

So, who would like to explain why Hulk was pitted again? I notice that Stroll finished one position ahead.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Both Verstappen and Leclerc are outstanding. They are both mega.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lucifers »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:35 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:33 pm
That is really unfair on Bottas. He had a team instruction to box just behind Verstappen when his tyres were in far better shape - and he looked as quick as Hamilton at this stage. Then Hamilton gets to go longer. Given that Hamilton got by with 2 laps left, I think it is almost certain that Bottas will haev held him off had he had the option to go longer. I think that was not fair treatment to Bottas. Hamilton had more pace now, but the reason for that is obvious. Bottas had the tyres to go longer and he could have kept Hamilton behind.
True, but he's got to be smarter on the strategy front. If he doesn't have the conviction to pass Verstappen after the last pit, why did he decide to pit? He needs to make some of the shots himself out of his own best interest.
if he felt his tyres were still fine he should had told them he doesn't want to pit and roll the dice and see what it gets him. bottas is racing hamilton, not max for the championship. His priority should be hamilton

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Would love to know why Lewis was still locking his brakes, well after the pit lane speed limit line. It's very odd if he wasn't speeding!
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Let's hope for scorching temperatures in Spain and more tyre issues across the race for the teams to deal with.
Last edited by Asphalt_World on Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Schumacher forever#1
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Let's hop for scorching temperatures in Spain and more tyre issues across the race for the teams to deal with.
30 degrees next weekend!
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JN23
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Would love to know why Lewis was still locking his brakes, well after the pit lane speed limit line. It's very odd if he wasn't speeding!
Was just wondering, what’s the penalty for this usually? Hamilton was over 5seconds clear of Bottas at the end so if it’s that then he’d keep second.

Anyway, sounds like Merc thought he made in.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Let's hop for scorching temperatures in Spain and more tyre issues across the race for the teams to deal with.
30 degrees next weekend!

I'm sure Mercedes will improve things on their end, but I suspect Max will be a live challenger once again. At least I hope so.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:35 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:33 pm
That is really unfair on Bottas. He had a team instruction to box just behind Verstappen when his tyres were in far better shape - and he looked as quick as Hamilton at this stage. Then Hamilton gets to go longer. Given that Hamilton got by with 2 laps left, I think it is almost certain that Bottas will haev held him off had he had the option to go longer. I think that was not fair treatment to Bottas. Hamilton had more pace now, but the reason for that is obvious. Bottas had the tyres to go longer and he could have kept Hamilton behind.
True, but he's got to be smarter on the strategy front. If he doesn't have the conviction to pass Verstappen after the last pit, why did he decide to pit? He needs to make some of the shots himself out of his own best interest.
I seriously doubt he decided to pit. He followed Verstappen in, so it almost certainly will have been an instruction as it was last moment. What makes no sence was that it wasn't Hamilton as Bottas's tyres were in much better shape despite being pretty close to Verstappen. It indicated that being close to the driver ahead made things worse - as Hamilton dropped 7 seconds behind Bottas. But he stayed out and I don't get why they didn't leave Bottas out that lap to do a fast lap in clean air.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Would love to know why Lewis was still locking his brakes, well after the pit lane speed limit line. It's very odd if he wasn't speeding!
Was just wondering, what’s the penalty for this usually? Hamilton was over 5seconds clear of Bottas at the end so if it’s that then he’d keep second.

Anyway, sounds like Merc thought he made in.
Normally a Stop Go I believe.
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

Ever since the early days of Mercedes' return to F1 when they have had issues it's often been overheating the rear tyres. I feel like it's never really gone away. Obviously they're largely overcome it with setup and whatever the design concept that provokes it it's totally worth it by virtue of their success, but it does still crop up as an issue every so often.
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Vettel was eager to blame his team. He conveniently forgot about his own mistake - another spin ...

;-)

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:35 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:32 pm
Bottas didn't even try to overtake Verstappen after he pit. Hard luck on him but he's been very passive as usual.
He will have known that Verstappen had the option to push harder without ruining the tryes. Bottas will have ruined his tyres far sooner had he tried against verstappen.
Then why did he pit?

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Would love to know why Lewis was still locking his brakes, well after the pit lane speed limit line. It's very odd if he wasn't speeding!
Was just wondering, what’s the penalty for this usually? Hamilton was over 5seconds clear of Bottas at the end so if it’s that then he’d keep second.

Anyway, sounds like Merc thought he made in.
5 seconds I believe.
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BMWSauber84
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Would love to know why Lewis was still locking his brakes, well after the pit lane speed limit line. It's very odd if he wasn't speeding!
Was just wondering, what’s the penalty for this usually? Hamilton was over 5seconds clear of Bottas at the end so if it’s that then he’d keep second.

Anyway, sounds like Merc thought he made in.
Usually put lane speed limit penalties are very quickly investigated and ruled on, so I can only assume that he was fine on that front. I have to admit though that at first glance I thought it was inevitable that he must have sped.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:50 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:35 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:32 pm
Bottas didn't even try to overtake Verstappen after he pit. Hard luck on him but he's been very passive as usual.
He will have known that Verstappen had the option to push harder without ruining the tryes. Bottas will have ruined his tyres far sooner had he tried against verstappen.
Then why did he pit?
I believe he was instructed to follow Verstappen in last moment. At least Di Resta assumed that was the case. I don't think Bottas would suddenly tell the team last moment that he's coming in with 2 seconds to warn them.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:36 pm
So, who would like to explain why Hulk was pitted again? I notice that Stroll finished one position ahead.
Hulk had a vibration and apparently wouldn't have made it to the end.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

If he know's he can't beat Verstappen like that then he needs to think twice about following the instruction.

I think he was unlucky with the strategy but we saw Verstappen today somewhat directing strategy. The top drivers do that. We've seen Hamilton make this strategy work often where he runs longer and creates an offset.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:59 pm
If he know's he can't beat Verstappen like that then he needs to think twice about following the instruction.

I think he was unlucky with the strategy but we saw Verstappen today somewhat directing strategy. The top drivers do that. We've seen Hamilton make this strategy work often where he runs longer and creates an offset.
The thing I don't get though is that hamilton sounded like he was not at all keen on staying out and kept asking if the tyres were safe. To me it seemed that Hamilton could stay out and Bottas was instructed to follow Verstappen. We heard nothing from Bottas so we can't confirm things. But Hamilton also sounded like he wanted to box, and if he did, i think his advantage of 10 lap newer tyres will have gone and he will have finished 3rd. It almost seemed like the team were trying to get Hamilton ahead to me. I think the team must have known they couldn't get by Verstappen as he wasn't even trying and his tyres never looked to suffer even in the 1st stint.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by PRFAN »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:56 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:36 pm
So, who would like to explain why Hulk was pitted again? I notice that Stroll finished one position ahead.
Hulk had a vibration and apparently wouldn't have made it to the end.
Its the sensible thing to do from a team managing position. Why give more points to Hulk when he is an alternate? It was clear a podium was out of the question, and Albon was getting close fast. Switch them around by pitting Hulk which will have no effect in overall team points and will give your regular driver more points while also solving any tire issue on Hulk's car. It was a good choice to make.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

I don't think the win was on for Bottas', but obviously second place would have been easy had the team given done right by him with strategy. He perhaps could have made a more spirited defence against Max in the second stint, but ultimately Merc had enormous issues with the tyres today. Although to give Hamilton some credit, his pace in the latter part of his second stint was solid.

A cynical part of me wonders if this might have been Merc worrying about the drivers championship. The constructers title is basically already secure, but had it not been for the engine failure in Austria, Max would likely be only about 10-12 points off of Hamilton. Bottas's bad luck last week might force Merc to out him in wingman duties if this tyre issue persists.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:08 pm
I don't think the win was on for Bottas', but obviously second place would have been easy had the team given done right by him with strategy. He perhaps could have made a more spirited defence against Max in the second stint, but ultimately Merc had enormous issues with the tyres today. Although to give Hamilton some credit, his pace in the latter part of his second stint was solid.

A cynical part of me wonders if this might have been Merc worrying about the drivers championship. The constructers title is basically already secure, but had it not been for the engine failure in Austria, Max would likely be only about 10-12 points off of Hamilton. Bottas's bad luck last week might force Merc to out him in wingman duties if this tyre issue persists.
I've never thought Bottas's defending is his weak point. His weak point is finding oppertunities to overtake. And here, as you say, I think they clearly had problems anyway. It reminds me of Verstappen passing him in Austria last year was it? He then didn't even attempt to defend, but lets be honest - it was better that he didn't. Vettel finished 0.6 seconds behind him. Had he defended Verstappen, It is almost certain he will not have even been on the podium.

With the level of problems Mercedes was having, and knowing that red Bull had no issues pushing flat out the whole time (pretty much proved in the 1st stint), I don't really know if Bottas defending Verstappen will have done any good for him.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:06 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:59 pm
If he know's he can't beat Verstappen like that then he needs to think twice about following the instruction.

I think he was unlucky with the strategy but we saw Verstappen today somewhat directing strategy. The top drivers do that. We've seen Hamilton make this strategy work often where he runs longer and creates an offset.
The thing I don't get though is that hamilton sounded like he was not at all keen on staying out and kept asking if the tyres were safe. To me it seemed that Hamilton could stay out and Bottas was instructed to follow Verstappen. We heard nothing from Bottas so we can't confirm things. But Hamilton also sounded like he wanted to box, and if he did, i think his advantage of 10 lap newer tyres will have gone and he will have finished 3rd. It almost seemed like the team were trying to get Hamilton ahead to me. I think the team must have known they couldn't get by Verstappen as he wasn't even trying and his tyres never looked to suffer even in the 1st stint.
TBF we'd need to listen to the full team radio of Hamilton to know for sure.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:21 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:06 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:59 pm
If he know's he can't beat Verstappen like that then he needs to think twice about following the instruction.

I think he was unlucky with the strategy but we saw Verstappen today somewhat directing strategy. The top drivers do that. We've seen Hamilton make this strategy work often where he runs longer and creates an offset.
The thing I don't get though is that hamilton sounded like he was not at all keen on staying out and kept asking if the tyres were safe. To me it seemed that Hamilton could stay out and Bottas was instructed to follow Verstappen. We heard nothing from Bottas so we can't confirm things. But Hamilton also sounded like he wanted to box, and if he did, i think his advantage of 10 lap newer tyres will have gone and he will have finished 3rd. It almost seemed like the team were trying to get Hamilton ahead to me. I think the team must have known they couldn't get by Verstappen as he wasn't even trying and his tyres never looked to suffer even in the 1st stint.
TBF we'd need to listen to the full team radio of Hamilton to know for sure.
Yea we will have to wait to find out. But it does seem both Hamilton and Bottas have pretty much been equal with both the last 2 races added up. With hamilton slightly quicker last time out and the opposite this time. Bottas really is not having good luck, but he should be pleased that his race pace appears to have been more or less the same as Hamilton recently.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Yeh well Max is keeping in touch and Mercedes will be wary and edge more and more toward Lewis going forward, I reckon. Also can't forget the potential for reliability to impact the standings. For all of Merc's dominance Max is only slightly more than 1 DNF behind Hamilton. And for all of Merc's dominance they've only bagged one 1-2 result.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Racing Point have been summoned to the stewards, post race, re their brake ducts.
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:49 pm
Racing Point have been summoned to the stewards, post race, re their brake ducts.
And have been given a reprimand.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:47 pm
Yeh well Max is keeping in touch and Mercedes will be wary and edge more and more toward Lewis going forward, I reckon. Also can't forget the potential for reliability to impact the standings. For all of Merc's dominance Max is only slightly more than 1 DNF behind Hamilton. And for all of Merc's dominance they've only bagged one 1-2 result.
Mercedes extreme dominance this year is in qualifying only as it is mostly coming from their engine upgrades that were a result of them pushing engine development hard to compete with Ferrari's illegal engine. It means they are not getting insane party modes on their engines, as well as being able to run a lot more downforce (this is one reason why they are less kind on their tyres)

If Mercedes had that second a lap advantage, or even half of it, available in the races then they would have easily 1-2ed every race this season. In normal conditions their car is the best, and it probably has the biggest qualifying advantage they have had in the hybrid era, but their race advantage is not the same they enjoyed during the Hamilton-Rosberg era.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:47 pm
Yeh well Max is keeping in touch and Mercedes will be wary and edge more and more toward Lewis going forward, I reckon. Also can't forget the potential for reliability to impact the standings. For all of Merc's dominance Max is only slightly more than 1 DNF behind Hamilton. And for all of Merc's dominance they've only bagged one 1-2 result.
I think Verstappen possibly could be doing the best job of any driver this year. Although I still think that Red Bull are by far the best team with strategies and dealing with the unexpected things when under pressure. I honestly don't think verstappen will have started the race in Hungary if he was at any other team had he done the same mistake. There was literally seconds left and he won't have been racing. So he owes the team for that. But in terms of his performances once the lights have gone out, I think he possibly could be rated ahead of Hamilton this season. Had he not retired in the first race, i really do wonder if he could have won. In which case he would barely be behind Hamilton in the standings. And even without Bottas's bad luck, verstappen may still be ahead of him points wise if not for the first race. but this is all guess work.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

I agree Verstappen is probably the driver of the season at this stage. I think he's got the absolute maximum result possible from the situation he's been given. I don't think you can say that about anyone else on the grid this year.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by WHoff78 »

Actually think that Hamilton's pace before the last pit stop deserves more credit. To keep putting in the lap times while he clearly didn't have the confidence the tyre was going to even survive is exactly what sets him apart. Bottas is a very quick driver himself and these are the fine margins that make the difference. No doubt some would complain if Hamilton was given the opportunity to pit first as you wouldn't bet against him making the undercut work either to get track position on valteri.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:15 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:47 pm
Yeh well Max is keeping in touch and Mercedes will be wary and edge more and more toward Lewis going forward, I reckon. Also can't forget the potential for reliability to impact the standings. For all of Merc's dominance Max is only slightly more than 1 DNF behind Hamilton. And for all of Merc's dominance they've only bagged one 1-2 result.
I think Verstappen possibly could be doing the best job of any driver this year. Although I still think that Red Bull are by far the best team with strategies and dealing with the unexpected things when under pressure. I honestly don't think verstappen will have started the race in Hungary if he was at any other team had he done the same mistake. There was literally seconds left and he won't have been racing. So he owes the team for that. But in terms of his performances once the lights have gone out, I think he possibly could be rated ahead of Hamilton this season. Had he not retired in the first race, i really do wonder if he could have won. In which case he would barely be behind Hamilton in the standings. And even without Bottas's bad luck, verstappen may still be ahead of him points wise if not for the first race. but this is all guess work.
According to my ratings thus far for the season.

Verstappen: 6.50
Hamilton: 6.40

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

Leclerc has as many performances of 7 (out of 8 ) as Hamilton but put in two duff weekends so his score is 5.40. Lewis is the only guy I've given an 8 to this season based on the extraordinary qualifying performance in the Styrian GP. I didn't give Verstappen any race weekend score for the Austrian GP.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:57 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:49 pm
Racing Point have been summoned to the stewards, post race, re their brake ducts.
And have been given a reprimand.
Will this joke continue throughout the season?

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Ferrari's handling of Vettel is odd to say the least. They appeared to put him to prevent him holding up Leclerc. I'm sure Vettel is sensible enough and professional enough that he would have yielded position if asked because of the strategy difference.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:54 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:57 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:49 pm
Racing Point have been summoned to the stewards, post race, re their brake ducts.
And have been given a reprimand.
Will this joke continue throughout the season?
Renault also protested but then withdrew the protest because the FIA summoned Racing Point themselves. Makes sense :?

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

They will be reprimanded at every race throughout the season that they run the rear brake ducts in, however there is no further punishment for multiple reprimands.
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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

It was another spin for Vettel and this is now statistically his worst start to a season since 2008. He just looks broken and like he's mentally checked out at Ferrari.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

How nice of Mercedes to give the worse driver the superior strategy.

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Re: 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Covalent wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:36 pm
How nice of Mercedes to give the worse driver the superior strategy.
Well, I will admit that mercedes probably won't have known that it will have been the better one to go for, but it certainly looked that way after it had been done. Given bottas's tyres were in far better condition than Hamilton's when Bottas boxed, there is pretty much no doubt that Bottas could have done the same and possibly even gone longer - which in turn I think will have kept his deserved 2nd place.

Despite me often defending Bottas in the team mate wars, the only time I've gone against the majority with these two was in Italy last year. But this weekend, I think Bottas did do the better job and was just unlucky with the result.

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