Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

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Flash2k11
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Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Flash2k11 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53694574

Mercedes playing hardball, though I still think they will be here next year. Given they supply engines to 3 other teams next year, thats a hell of a ball to threaten to take home with you.
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Black_Flag_11
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Oh no, how terrible, I hope they can work something out, it would be awful to not have Mercedes on the grid next year.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by JN23 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:55 pm
Oh no, how terrible, I hope they can work something out, it would be awful to not have Mercedes on the grid next year.

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Then people could moan about Verstappen winning the championship unchallenged!

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Flash2k11 »

https://streamable.com/mq21jo

Toto is livid, and a fair bit of big talk about Haas.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by pc27b »

nearly everyone believed f1 prize money should be distributed better before corona.
absolutely no one wants to hear toto cry "unfair" during this mess that isn't going away anytime soon.
on this topic, toto can stuff it. nicest way i could put it on the message board

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Flash2k11
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Flash2k11 »

pc27b wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:36 pm
nearly everyone believed f1 prize money should be distributed better before corona.
absolutely no one wants to hear toto cry "unfair" during this mess that isn't going away anytime soon.
on this topic, toto can stuff it. nicest way i could put it on the message board
Given his major gripe sounds like the 'historical' Ferrari payment, that's an interesting stance to take.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:43 pm
pc27b wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:36 pm
nearly everyone believed f1 prize money should be distributed better before corona.
absolutely no one wants to hear toto cry "unfair" during this mess that isn't going away anytime soon.
on this topic, toto can stuff it. nicest way i could put it on the message board
Given his major gripe sounds like the 'historical' Ferrari payment, that's an interesting stance to take.
He thinks Merc should get one too which is ludicrous. Neither should but if you are giving historical payments then there are a number of teams who should be in line before Mercedes.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Flash2k11 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:03 pm
Flash2k11 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:43 pm
pc27b wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:36 pm
nearly everyone believed f1 prize money should be distributed better before corona.
absolutely no one wants to hear toto cry "unfair" during this mess that isn't going away anytime soon.
on this topic, toto can stuff it. nicest way i could put it on the message board
Given his major gripe sounds like the 'historical' Ferrari payment, that's an interesting stance to take.
He thinks Merc should get one too which is ludicrous. Neither should but if you are giving historical payments then there are a number of teams who should be in line before Mercedes.
Yeah, I don't think anyone should be getting any extra payments at all. Split the TV money equally and the bigger teams can pull the rest in commercial deals.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by pc27b »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:43 pm
pc27b wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:36 pm
nearly everyone believed f1 prize money should be distributed better before corona.
absolutely no one wants to hear toto cry "unfair" during this mess that isn't going away anytime soon.
on this topic, toto can stuff it. nicest way i could put it on the message board
Given his major gripe sounds like the 'historical' Ferrari payment, that's an interesting stance to take.
maybe i missed it, i thought historical payments were out? either way toto isn't getting any sympathy now

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by tim3003 »

From the BBC article: "Under this system, Ferrari last year earned about an additional $110m (about £84m), Mercedes and Red Bull more than $70m, McLaren about $30m and Williams $10m.

"All those payments have been removed from next year, and replaced by a new system, which will reward Ferrari $40m extra for their historic importance to the sport, and the companies that supply engines $10m each."


So instead of nearly $40million less than Ferrari Mercedes will get $30million less..
And instead of the same as Red Bull, they'll get $10million more!

Someone in Munich can't do the sums. Or maybe it's Mclaren and Renault they're scared of?

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by JN23 »

tim3003 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:09 pm
From the BBC article: "Under this system, Ferrari last year earned about an additional $110m (about £84m), Mercedes and Red Bull more than $70m, McLaren about $30m and Williams $10m.

"All those payments have been removed from next year, and replaced by a new system, which will reward Ferrari $40m extra for their historic importance to the sport, and the companies that supply engines $10m each."


So instead of nearly $40million less than Ferrari Mercedes will get $30million less..
And instead of the same as Red Bull, they'll get $10million more!

Someone in Munich can't do the sums. Or maybe it's Mclaren and Renault they're scared of?
I get that Merc are a bit miffed with the extra money Ferrari get, all non-Ferrari fans are, but this seems a strange hill to die* on.

*i don’t for a minute think they’re going to leave the sport at the of this season.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Exediron »

I won't miss 'em if they go. Formula 1 would be pretty exciting and closely fought at the moment without them.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by JN23 »

Exediron wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:03 am
I won't miss 'em if they go. Formula 1 would be pretty exciting and closely fought at the moment without them.
Would it though? Verstappen would have won three races (by 11 seconds*, 50 seconds and 13 seconds*) so far and retired from the lead in another.

*Verstappen pitted late for fastest lap so he was further ahead than that in reality.

I think he'd be 30 points clear than second place and Red Bull would be 42 points ahead in the constructors.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

That's true although it's fair to say that generally F1 would have been more exciting over the last 6 years without Merc.

I'll say what I always say when Ferrari threatens to leave. Liberty should devise a set of rules that is best for the sport. If some people chose not to sign up to those rules then so be it.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Jezza13 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:25 am
That's true although it's fair to say that generally F1 would have been more exciting over the last 6 years without Merc.

I'll say what I always say when Ferrari threatens to leave. Liberty should devise a set of rules that is best for the sport. If some people chose not to sign up to those rules then so be it.
100% on board with this though I do think the engine regs is the Elephant in the room here.

Unfortunately no other engine manufacturer wants to touch these regs with a barg pole so if Merc up & leave & decide to stop making the engines then the sport is very compromised. It'll then only take Honda to give it away & I'd say that'll at the very least really throw the sport into sever panic mode.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Greenman »

.

Ferrari should not be rewarded for failure.

They were caught out last year in (at the least) a stretching of the engine TDs and received no punishment or loss of points.

I would prefer to see no "historic" rewards and a simple (and more equal) distribution of money based on performance.

IF teams don't want to compete on more level terms then they can leave.

.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

Jezza13 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:53 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:25 am
That's true although it's fair to say that generally F1 would have been more exciting over the last 6 years without Merc.

I'll say what I always say when Ferrari threatens to leave. Liberty should devise a set of rules that is best for the sport. If some people chose not to sign up to those rules then so be it.
100% on board with this though I do think the engine regs is the Elephant in the room here.

Unfortunately no other engine manufacturer wants to touch these regs with a barg pole so if Merc up & leave & decide to stop making the engines then the sport is very compromised. It'll then only take Honda to give it away & I'd say that'll at the very least really throw the sport into sever panic mode.
Yes, having ridiculously complicated engines has handed way too much power to the engine manufacturers. I wish we could go back to the days when if a team was short of an engine deal they'd just give Brian Hart or John Judd a call.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Jezza13 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:18 am
Jezza13 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:53 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:25 am
That's true although it's fair to say that generally F1 would have been more exciting over the last 6 years without Merc.

I'll say what I always say when Ferrari threatens to leave. Liberty should devise a set of rules that is best for the sport. If some people chose not to sign up to those rules then so be it.
100% on board with this though I do think the engine regs is the Elephant in the room here.

Unfortunately no other engine manufacturer wants to touch these regs with a barg pole so if Merc up & leave & decide to stop making the engines then the sport is very compromised. It'll then only take Honda to give it away & I'd say that'll at the very least really throw the sport into sever panic mode.
Yes, having ridiculously complicated engines has handed way too much power to the engine manufacturers. I wish we could go back to the days when if a team was short of an engine deal they'd just give Brian Hart or John Judd a call.
Well this is what needs to happen. IMO F1 should be taking a simpler, hybrid concept to other manufacturers like BMW, Porsche, Chrysler etc as well as the private guys like Cosworth, Judd, Hart & Mugen with the aim of getting a MOI that they'd be prepared to make the engines should the regs change. Once they get enough support, put the MOI's on the table in front of Merc, Ferrari, Renault & Honda & say "This is the way we're going, sign here if you want to play, if not, thank you for your participation & good luck in the future".

Get this done & it'll dilute a lot of the leverage the manufacturer teams have
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Risking Ferrari leaving Formula 1 is like risking Germany leaving the European Union. I don't know how well Formula 1 would stand without their major marketing brand, especially with Mercedes on the fence and the bottom teams struggling further.

The historic payment likely will not sit nicely with other teams, but if there's no other bargaining power F1 have, I'd rather they keep it in place to avoid Ferrari calling it a day.
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

100% agree.

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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by tootsie323 »

tim3003 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:09 pm
From the BBC article: "Under this system, Ferrari last year earned about an additional $110m (about £84m), Mercedes and Red Bull more than $70m, McLaren about $30m and Williams $10m.

"All those payments have been removed from next year, and replaced by a new system, which will reward Ferrari $40m extra for their historic importance to the sport, and the companies that supply engines $10m each."


So instead of nearly $40million less than Ferrari Mercedes will get $30million less..
And instead of the same as Red Bull, they'll get $10million more!

Someone in Munich can't do the sums. Or maybe it's Mclaren and Renault they're scared of?
Ferrari also supplies engines.
Makes me wonder - is Honda entitled to a $10m payday?
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Re: Mercedes & Formula 1 cannot agree contract to continue after 2020

Post by Lotus49 »

tootsie323 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:52 pm
tim3003 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:09 pm
From the BBC article: "Under this system, Ferrari last year earned about an additional $110m (about £84m), Mercedes and Red Bull more than $70m, McLaren about $30m and Williams $10m.

"All those payments have been removed from next year, and replaced by a new system, which will reward Ferrari $40m extra for their historic importance to the sport, and the companies that supply engines $10m each."


So instead of nearly $40million less than Ferrari Mercedes will get $30million less..
And instead of the same as Red Bull, they'll get $10million more!

Someone in Munich can't do the sums. Or maybe it's Mclaren and Renault they're scared of?
Ferrari also supplies engines.
Makes me wonder - is Honda entitled to a $10m payday?
They should through supplying Alpha if you class RB as the works. Or vice versa I guess would work too.
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