PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Hungary?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:50 pm

Hamilton
22
10%
Bottas
0
No votes
Leclerc
0
No votes
Vettel
21
10%
Verstappen
23
11%
Albon
0
No votes
Sainz
17
8%
Norris
5
2%
Ricciardo
22
10%
Ocon
0
No votes
Gasly
12
6%
Kvyat
7
3%
Perez
0
No votes
Stroll
23
11%
Raikkonen
17
8%
Giovinazzi
5
2%
Magnussen
19
9%
Grosjean
2
1%
Russell
20
9%
Latifi
2
1%
 
Total votes: 217

Jenson's Understeer
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PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

Despite the differing conditions, the second race at the Red Bull Ring provided, quite curiously, a similar set of TMW winners to the first race. In fact, eight of the drivers who won the Austrian TMW vote repeated in the Styrian TMW vote, with Lando Norris and Kevin Magnussen the only winners to not receive at least 80% of the vote share. The two exceptions? Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. Hamilton, who having lost and received just a single vote in Austria turned the tables on his Finnish teammate, winning and consigning Bottas to a single vote, while at Ferrari Leclerc's first lap brainfart meant the vote was only ever going to go one way. Once again, two drivers failed to register a vote: this week it was Alex Albon and Antonio Giovinazzi's turn to join Vettel and Sainz in receiving that dubious honour.

It means that after two races, the votes at Mercedes and Ferrari are the only two that are split, with Hamilton and Vettel leading in terms of percentage. The other eight TMW battles all see one driver taking an early 2-0 advantage, with Perez, Russell and Ricciardo the drivers to have picked up the largest amount of votes.

Styrian GP Vote Results

Mercedes: Hamilton wins with 96% of the vote (28-1)
Ferrari: Vettel wins with 92% of the vote (23-2)
Red Bull: Verstappen wins with 100% of the vote (19-0)
McLaren: Norris wins with 72% of the vote (21-8)
Renault: Ricciardo wins with 90% of the vote (26-3)
AlphaTauri: Gasly wins with 80% of the vote (20-5)
Racing Point: Perez wins with 96% of the vote (27-1)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen wins with 100% of the vote (28-0)
Haas: Magnussen wins with 77% of the vote (20-6)
Williams: Russell wins with 96% of the vote (26-1)

Season Scores

Mercedes: Bottas/Hamilton tied 1-1 (Hamilton has 64% of the vote)
Ferrari: Leclerc/Vettel tied 1-1 (Vettel has 55% of the vote)
Red Bull: Verstappen leads 2-0 (with 87% of the season vote)
McLaren: Norris leads 2-0 (with 83% of the season vote)
Renault: Ricciardo leads 2-0 (with 91% of the season vote)
AlphaTauri: Gasly leads 2-0 (with 85% of the season vote)
Racing Point: Perez leads 2-0 (with 96% of the season vote)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen leads 2-0 (with 88% of the season vote)
Haas: Magnussen leads 2-0 (with 80% of the season vote)
Williams: Russell leads 2-0 (with 95% of the season vote)

As there is a two week gap between races, this poll will run for 10 days, ending next Friday.
Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2020: 9th | 2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th

JN23
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by JN23 »

I think Sainz was hard done to in the Styria vote.

For Hungary: Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Sainz, Ricciardo, Gasly, Stroll, Giovinazzi, Magnussen, Russell. Some of them were close.

Not sure either Alfa was deserving of a vote but gave Giovinazzi on the basis he qualified ahead and didn't get a penalty for parking up on the grid wrong.

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Exediron
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by Exediron »

Pretty easy ones this time: Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Sainz, Ricciardo, Stroll, Magnussen, Russell.

The only two I had any trouble with were the Alfas and the Alphas, but I went with Gasly and Raikkonen.
JN23 wrote:I think Sainz was hard done to in the Styria vote.
He got my vote, but I know I wasn't in the majority.
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BMWSauber84
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by BMWSauber84 »

It seems all rather clear cut this time around.

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by WHoff78 »

Be curious to see if anyone goes against the grain this time, as I think the start of the race was key for a couple of drivers this time out.

Pretty much everyone who started on the Right hand side of the grid (even qualifying position) dropped back of the start, and then most got stuck behind slower cars trying to come back through the order with it being challenging to overtake at this circuit.

Only drivers starting from an even slot who seem to be able to break the trend are Russel (not surprising), Gasly and Kimi. LeClrec actually got a pretty solid get away considering.

BMWSauber84
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Ocon really needs to get on the pace soon. A bit of rustiness after a year out is somewhat acceptable, but he needs to be much closer to Ricciardo's level by the second half of the season.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Unless it is all based on qualifying again, I'm wondering why Kvyat is being heavily outvoted. On the formation lap, Kvyat made a questioned multiple times if he could box - and the team knew that they couldn't answer. But even with the penalty, if Kvyat had done what he wanted, he would have been up there with Magnussen and the penalty in the end likely still will have been worth doing that. Anyhow, He had an excellent first lap overtaking many cars including Gasly and then he requested again and he pitted at the end of lap one. I'm wondering if his climb to 12th and past Gasly went unnoticed? When Gasly pitted, he came out just ahead of Kvyat, but then Kvyat passed him. Kvyat then stayed ahead but Gasly admittedly complained of some issues several laps later.

More about the formation lap discussion here vs the Haas drievrs: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/22/how ... ivers-did/

Unless we hear of anything else effecting Gasly's race, I think Kvyat's call to box as well as his great start despite not getting what he wanted should get him the vote. Even though I disagree about last weekend, I think some decent points were made against me voting for Kvyat. Will see what happens this time!

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Exediron
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by Exediron »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Unless it is all based on qualifying again, I'm wondering why Kvyat is being heavily outvoted. On the formation lap, Kvyat made a questioned multiple times if he could box - and the team knew that they couldn't answer. But even with the penalty, if Kvyat had done what he wanted, he would have been up there with Magnussen and the penalty in the end likely still will have been worth doing that. Anyhow, He had an excellent first lap overtaking many cars including Gasly and then he requested again and he pitted at the end of lap one. I'm wondering if his climb to 12th and past Gasly went unnoticed? When Gasly pitted, he came out just ahead of Kvyat, but then Kvyat passed him. Kvyat then stayed ahead but Gasly admittedly complained of some issues several laps later.

More about the formation lap discussion here vs the Haas drievrs: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/22/how ... ivers-did/

Unless we hear of anything else effecting Gasly's race, I think Kvyat's call to box as well as his great start despite not getting what he wanted should get him the vote. Even though I disagree about last weekend, I think some decent points were made against me voting for Kvyat. Will see what happens this time!
I really did consider giving Kvyat a nod for his call to box, but I don't think making a strategy call (admittedly a good one) is the criteria a head-to-head should be evaluated on.

I can't speak for the others, but I did largely base my decision on qualifying again. The qualifying gap between the drivers wasn't small, and Kvyat went out in Q1 while his teammate made it all the way through to Q3 despite an engine issue. That was enough for me to call it in his favor, since I didn't feel there was enough of the race -- and what there was may have been colored by Gasly's car problems -- to be decisive.
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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Exediron wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:Unless it is all based on qualifying again, I'm wondering why Kvyat is being heavily outvoted. On the formation lap, Kvyat made a questioned multiple times if he could box - and the team knew that they couldn't answer. But even with the penalty, if Kvyat had done what he wanted, he would have been up there with Magnussen and the penalty in the end likely still will have been worth doing that. Anyhow, He had an excellent first lap overtaking many cars including Gasly and then he requested again and he pitted at the end of lap one. I'm wondering if his climb to 12th and past Gasly went unnoticed? When Gasly pitted, he came out just ahead of Kvyat, but then Kvyat passed him. Kvyat then stayed ahead but Gasly admittedly complained of some issues several laps later.

More about the formation lap discussion here vs the Haas drievrs: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/22/how ... ivers-did/

Unless we hear of anything else effecting Gasly's race, I think Kvyat's call to box as well as his great start despite not getting what he wanted should get him the vote. Even though I disagree about last weekend, I think some decent points were made against me voting for Kvyat. Will see what happens this time!
I really did consider giving Kvyat a nod for his call to box, but I don't think making a strategy call (admittedly a good one) is the criteria a head-to-head should be evaluated on.

I can't speak for the others, but I did largely base my decision on qualifying again. The qualifying gap between the drivers wasn't small, and Kvyat went out in Q1 while his teammate made it all the way through to Q3 despite an engine issue. That was enough for me to call it in his favor, since I didn't feel there was enough of the race -- and what there was may have been colored by Gasly's car problems -- to be decisive.
Kvyat started 17th though and climbed to 12th on lap 1. Gasly fell a couple of places and looked to have similar pace to those around him so I'm not sure his problem was there then. I think what Kvyat did on lap one was what got him ahead. I'm not factoring in his decision to pit as that wasn't what got him ahead. He'd already done that and even though he came out behind Gasly, he got ahead again. Maybe the 2nd time could be related to Gasly's troubles, but I still think over the 20 or so laps they did, Kvyat did a better job.

mikeyg123
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Unless it is all based on qualifying again, I'm wondering why Kvyat is being heavily outvoted. On the formation lap, Kvyat made a questioned multiple times if he could box - and the team knew that they couldn't answer. But even with the penalty, if Kvyat had done what he wanted, he would have been up there with Magnussen and the penalty in the end likely still will have been worth doing that. Anyhow, He had an excellent first lap overtaking many cars including Gasly and then he requested again and he pitted at the end of lap one. I'm wondering if his climb to 12th and past Gasly went unnoticed? When Gasly pitted, he came out just ahead of Kvyat, but then Kvyat passed him. Kvyat then stayed ahead but Gasly admittedly complained of some issues several laps later.

More about the formation lap discussion here vs the Haas drievrs: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/22/how ... ivers-did/

Unless we hear of anything else effecting Gasly's race, I think Kvyat's call to box as well as his great start despite not getting what he wanted should get him the vote. Even though I disagree about last weekend, I think some decent points were made against me voting for Kvyat. Will see what happens this time!
I voted for Kvyat actually but isn't that somewhat of a mark against him. He forgot the rules. Had he remembered them he could have just told the team he was coming in. Basically he forgot the rules and it cost him points. I don't see that as a plus.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Yea you have a point there that he clearly had forgotten them, but it seemed so had Grosjean and Magnussen. They botht didn't just say they were coming in and seemed to be waiting for a responce from the team. Though they didn't make it as clear by questioning it in the way Kvyat did. However, Haas took the risk of getting the penalty which was still worth it. Kvyat's team could have done the same.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by typaH4okc »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Unless it is all based on qualifying again, I'm wondering why Kvyat is being heavily outvoted. On the formation lap, Kvyat made a questioned multiple times if he could box - and the team knew that they couldn't answer. But even with the penalty, if Kvyat had done what he wanted, he would have been up there with Magnussen and the penalty in the end likely still will have been worth doing that. Anyhow, He had an excellent first lap overtaking many cars including Gasly and then he requested again and he pitted at the end of lap one. I'm wondering if his climb to 12th and past Gasly went unnoticed? When Gasly pitted, he came out just ahead of Kvyat, but then Kvyat passed him. Kvyat then stayed ahead but Gasly admittedly complained of some issues several laps later.

More about the formation lap discussion here vs the Haas drievrs: https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/22/how ... ivers-did/

Unless we hear of anything else effecting Gasly's race, I think Kvyat's call to box as well as his great start despite not getting what he wanted should get him the vote. Even though I disagree about last weekend, I think some decent points were made against me voting for Kvyat. Will see what happens this time!
And he did a monster 50-lap stint on hards to the checker flag keeping Ocon and Norris behind.

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by WHoff78 »

Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by pokerman »

WHoff78 wrote:Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.
Apparently at the formation lap start Hamilton reported a sensor problem that caused a problem with his start and he was worried it might affect his race start, the team knew it wasn't something for Hamilton to be concerned about but didn't tell Hamilton that because they knew it wasn't allowed, same for Kvyat his team said nothing because they knew it wasn't allowed, it's for Haas to know the rules.
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by tootsie323 »

pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.
Apparently at the formation lap start Hamilton reported a sensor problem that caused a problem with his start and he was worried it might affect his race start, the team knew it wasn't something for Hamilton to be concerned about but didn't tell Hamilton that because they knew it wasn't allowed, same for Kvyat his team said nothing because they knew it wasn't allowed, it's for Haas to know the rules.
Pardon my ignorance here but the impression I get from this is that it is OK to radio to the driver when to pit during the race, but not to do so on the formation lap? And - if so - why?
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JN23
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by JN23 »

tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.
Apparently at the formation lap start Hamilton reported a sensor problem that caused a problem with his start and he was worried it might affect his race start, the team knew it wasn't something for Hamilton to be concerned about but didn't tell Hamilton that because they knew it wasn't allowed, same for Kvyat his team said nothing because they knew it wasn't allowed, it's for Haas to know the rules.
Pardon my ignorance here but the impression I get from this is that it is OK to radio to the driver when to pit during the race, but not to do so on the formation lap? And - if so - why?
The driver must drive the formation lap unaided. This is to avoid engineers telling drivers correct positions for bite points etc, but this bizarrely seems to extend to tyre calls on the formation lap. No idea why!

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by WHoff78 »

JN23 wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.
Apparently at the formation lap start Hamilton reported a sensor problem that caused a problem with his start and he was worried it might affect his race start, the team knew it wasn't something for Hamilton to be concerned about but didn't tell Hamilton that because they knew it wasn't allowed, same for Kvyat his team said nothing because they knew it wasn't allowed, it's for Haas to know the rules.
Pardon my ignorance here but the impression I get from this is that it is OK to radio to the driver when to pit during the race, but not to do so on the formation lap? And - if so - why?
The driver must drive the formation lap unaided. This is to avoid engineers telling drivers correct positions for bite points etc, but this bizarrely seems to extend to tyre calls on the formation lap. No idea why!
I think that’s right – the rules are fairly generic to catch anything But I would question if this goes against the intent. If so I’d guess a simple clarification would be required, not that it is going to come up very often. Anyway, I still don’t see any reason why a team can’t side step the question and say that the pit crew are ready to receive the car. This is something that a driver would need/want to do even if they make the call to stop, during formation lap or at any other point during the race and has nothing to do with driving the car.

Perhaps they are worried that a driver/team could come up with some sort of code/hidden response regarding the car settings but it seems fairly unlikely in this scenario.

pokerman
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Hungary 2020

Post by pokerman »

tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:Not sure this is the right thread to post this but I really do struggle with the ruling around the pit stops. If the only rule is that the driver must drive the car alone and unaided; when Kvyat asked if he could pit, could the team not simply reply – ‘affirmative, if you choose to pit then the pit crew are ready for you’. This would avoid any instruction, not relate to driving the car, and simply confirm that the pit crew are prepared if he makes the choice to pit?

The Haas team were more actively involved in the decision there so I can understand that more.
Apparently at the formation lap start Hamilton reported a sensor problem that caused a problem with his start and he was worried it might affect his race start, the team knew it wasn't something for Hamilton to be concerned about but didn't tell Hamilton that because they knew it wasn't allowed, same for Kvyat his team said nothing because they knew it wasn't allowed, it's for Haas to know the rules.
Pardon my ignorance here but the impression I get from this is that it is OK to radio to the driver when to pit during the race, but not to do so on the formation lap? And - if so - why?
I'm not sure, I do remember them not being happy about coaching the drivers about certain things like brake temperatures during the warm up lap and I guess then just stopped any advice from the pit wall?
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