Exediron wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:47 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:04 pm
Given how close Bottas is in qualifying you're basically saying that there are presently 7 drivers that are as least as good as Hamilton in qualifying, I would say name those 7.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying there are four drivers that are at least as good as Hamilton in qualifying, and three more I think might be just a little bit behind (and I already named the drivers before you ever posted that).
Records aside, I don't think Hamilton is an exceptional qualifier at this stage in his career -- or possibly ever. He matched Alonso in his rookie season (another top driver not known for qualifying), was only slightly ahead of Kovelainen when adjusting for fuel, beat Button (known as a poor qualifier), and then has not looked compellingly faster in outright pace than either Rosberg or Bottas.
There simply is not a body of proof that actually suggests Hamilton is an exceptional qualifier. In many other areas I consider him the best on the grid, but not that one.
I would not claim that I think there are four drivers -- or even any -- who would be likely to beat Hamilton in a championship.
I think you need to see the list of fastest drivers that dates back to the 80s when dismissing drivers as not being good qualifiers, it's a cross reference of qualifying performance.
If we go back to the turn of the century two drivers noted for being good qualifiers were Trulli and Fisichella, these being early teammates of Alonso but also teammates of Kovalainen and he out qualified them both. Kovalainen was a qualifying expert as were Rosberg and Bottas, these being drivers that beat their teammates in qualifying.
Alonso himself tended to wash his teammates in qualifying and he himself is high on that qualifying list. If we go into the next decade we basically have the top 3 drivers as being Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, Hamilton has proven himself to be a better qualifier of the three. He edged out Alonso when he was a rookie but then we have Button who Hamilton out qualified better than what Alonso managed to do, Alonso himself said he might not be the fastest over one lap a few years ago, now who might that be referencing given who has beat Alonso post Hamilton?
Onto Vettel and Alonso out qualified Kimi and Massa more convincingly than Vettel out qualified KImi, so the narrative that Hamilton was never a great qualifier is false because who was better?
In recent years other strong qualifiers have come to the fore like Verstappen, Leclerc, Ricciardo and Russell, Verstappen and Leclerc obviously very strong, Ricciardo very good but he did get beat by Verstappen, Russell still unproven at a higher level.
Beyond these 4 then you really are starting to scrape the barrel to get to 7, let's remind ourselves that Bottas is a little more than a tenth slower than Hamilton in qualifying, we have Sainz who is simply not a great qualifier, the only driver he has beat is Kvyat who presently is making Gasly look like a qualifying superstar.
Sainz got beat by the Hulk who lost to Ricciardo who lost to Verstappen, when Sainz was announced at Ferrari, I and a few others said he would get beat easily by Leclerc in qualifying because Sainz is not a good qualifier yet we're thinking he would give Hamilton a hard time because Hamilton is not really that good in qualifying?
Presently Sainz is life and death with a rookie.