PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

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Which driver won each intra-team battle in Styria?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:27 am

Hamilton
28
10%
Bottas
1
0%
Leclerc
2
1%
Vettel
23
8%
Verstappen
29
11%
Albon
0
No votes
Sainz
8
3%
Norris
21
8%
Ricciardo
26
9%
Ocon
3
1%
Gasly
20
7%
Kvyat
5
2%
Perez
27
10%
Stroll
1
0%
Raikkonen
28
10%
Giovinazzi
0
No votes
Magnussen
20
7%
Grosjean
6
2%
Russell
26
9%
Latifi
1
0%
 
Total votes: 275

Jenson's Understeer
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PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

The Austrian vote has been counted and the results are below. Generally it was pretty lopsided, with no fewer than seven drivers failing to register more than a single vote. However, it was relatively close at both Red Bull and Alfa Romeo, with Max and Kimi facing a bit of a fight before continuing where they left off in 2019 to take the TMW win. Bottas takes an early advantage at Mercedes for the second year in a row, while the driver Ferrari are dropping - as well as the driver they're replacing him with - both open the season with no votes.

Austrian GP Vote Results

Mercedes: Bottas wins with 94% of the vote (15-1)
Ferrari: Leclerc wins with 100% of the vote (17-0)
Red Bull: Verstappen wins with 65% of the vote (11-6)
McLaren: Norris wins with 100% of the vote (17-0)
Renault: Ricciardo wins with 94% of the vote (16-1)
AlphaTauri: Gasly wins with 94% of the vote (15-1)
Racing Point: Perez wins with 94% of the vote (16-1)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen wins with 62% of the vote (8-5)
Haas: Magnussen wins with 87% of the vote (13-2)
Williams: Russell wins with 94% of the vote (16-1)

Season Scores

Mercedes: Bottas leads 1-0 (94% of the season vote)
Ferrari: Leclerc leads 1-0 (100% of the season vote)
Red Bull: Verstappen leads 1-0 (65% of the season vote)
McLaren: Norris leads 1-0 (100% of the season vote)
Renault: Ricciardo leads 1-0 (94% of the season vote)
AlphaTauri: Gasly leads 1-0 (94% of the season vote)
Racing Point: Perez leads 1-0 (94% of the season vote)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen leads 1-0 (62% of the season vote)
Haas: Magnussen leads 1-0 (87% of the season vote)
Williams: Russell leads 1-0 (94% of the season vote)

The Styrian poll will run for five days, ending on Saturday morning.
Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2020: 9th | 2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th

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Exediron
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by Exediron »

Okay, here are mine. First, the really obvious ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Lewis solidly outclassed his teammate throughout the entire weekend.
Vettel over Leclerc -- Ahead in qualifying, and he didn't make a boneheaded move that resulted in both cars failing to reach lap three.
Verstappen over Albon -- It wasn't even close. Honestly, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Albon is just Gasly with (much) better racecraft.
Perez over Stroll -- Surprisingly poor in qualifying, but delivered a sterling race performance only slightly marred by contact with Albon. Stroll gets downrated for a very poor overtake on Ricciardo.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Faster throughout this time.
Russell over Latifi -- He made a pretty poor mistake, but he gets a pass for being far faster in qualifying and finishing ahead anyway.

And the ones I think are potentially controversial:

Sainz over Norris -- He qualified ahead on merit, and without his bad pit stop I think he would have finished there. Norris was very impressive at the end of the race, however.
Ricciardo over Ocon -- Slower in qualifying, but displayed notably superior race pace despite being on the harder tyre.

And finally, the two where even I'm not sure:

Gasly over Kvyat -- I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember why Gasly dropped back so far in the race, but his qualifying was hekkin' impressive.
Magnussen over Grosjean-- Qualifying was a wash, thanks to Grosjean's technical issues, but Magnussen finished ahead. I don't really remember their races either.
PICK 10 COMPETITION (6 wins, 18 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017 & 2019
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion

JN23
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by JN23 »

Glad it’s not just me thinking Sainz deserves the vote ahead of Norris!

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Exediron wrote:Okay, here are mine. First, the really obvious ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Lewis solidly outclassed his teammate throughout the entire weekend.
Vettel over Leclerc -- Ahead in qualifying, and he didn't make a boneheaded move that resulted in both cars failing to reach lap three.
Verstappen over Albon -- It wasn't even close. Honestly, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Albon is just Gasly with (much) better racecraft.
Perez over Stroll -- Surprisingly poor in qualifying, but delivered a sterling race performance only slightly marred by contact with Albon. Stroll gets downrated for a very poor overtake on Ricciardo.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Faster throughout this time.
Russell over Latifi -- He made a pretty poor mistake, but he gets a pass for being far faster in qualifying and finishing ahead anyway.

And the ones I think are potentially controversial:

Sainz over Norris -- He qualified ahead on merit, and without his bad pit stop I think he would have finished there. Norris was very impressive at the end of the race, however.
Ricciardo over Ocon -- Slower in qualifying, but displayed notably superior race pace despite being on the harder tyre.

And finally, the two where even I'm not sure:

Gasly over Kvyat -- I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember why Gasly dropped back so far in the race, but his qualifying was hekkin' impressive.
Magnussen over Grosjean-- Qualifying was a wash, thanks to Grosjean's technical issues, but Magnussen finished ahead. I don't really remember their races either.
I agree with most of these. Though I honestly can see a reason for some ending up voting for Stroll. Due to nearly beating perez due to his mistake. Yes perez had come from a long way back, but that was because of qualifying. He'd built over a 15 second gap on ricciardo, who Stroll was behind initially. But due to a clumsy overtake attempt on Albon, he lost all that time and Stroll nearly passed him again.

I think I would leave Grosjean and Magnussen out of this vote. As we know, qualifying can't be compared, but the race, they looked dead even. Grosjean did start in the pit lane and was helped by the safety car, but that wasn't what got him on magnussen's tail who started in P15. From then on they both overtook each other 2 or 3 times and grosjean actually spent a fair bit of time ahead when adding up the laps even when not including the pit stops. There looked to be nothing to choose between them. What I find interesting is that they look to find it easier to pass the same car with similar pace compared to Hamilton vs Bottas last week. Is the Mercedes just terrible at following the same car? You could vote for Grosjean for catching up or Magnussen for finishing ahead. I thought they both did well this race.

Gasly had pitted on lap 24. Despite Kvyat starting 6 places behind, he'd already caught up to Gasly at this point. I'm wondering if they pitted him early because he was struggling as Kvyat had caught up. This put him behind the Williams in last. He was for some reason out on the hards, But I think this likely will have been planned. Kvyat went long on his softs and pitted on lap 36. Came out 2 seconds behind Gasly and seemed to fall back a bit. But then that turned around as Gasly seemed to struggle again and Kvyat overtook several laps later. Then Gasly also got passed by the 2 alfa romeos. The team then pitted him and even when he was on the softest tyre, he only managed to pass the 2 williams and remained around 20 seconds behind the 2 haas drivers. That gap only closed when Grosjean and Magnussen lost time fighting with Giovinazzi. To make this more apparent. When Gasly came out of the pits, he was around 25 seconds behind kvyat. He actually finished slightly further behind Kvyat than that (now around 27) despite being on faster tyres that were nearly 15 laps newer. Other than the 2 williams he had to get by, both him and Kvyat were in clean air. Unless gasly had some issue this race, his pace was just nowhere compared to Kvyat. And we can also factor in that Kvyat got impeded by Leclerc in qualifying.
The gasly votes are going a bit over the top IMO unless there was some issue which hasn't yet been confirmed.

mikeyg123
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Exediron wrote:Okay, here are mine. First, the really obvious ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Lewis solidly outclassed his teammate throughout the entire weekend.
Vettel over Leclerc -- Ahead in qualifying, and he didn't make a boneheaded move that resulted in both cars failing to reach lap three.
Verstappen over Albon -- It wasn't even close. Honestly, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Albon is just Gasly with (much) better racecraft.
Perez over Stroll -- Surprisingly poor in qualifying, but delivered a sterling race performance only slightly marred by contact with Albon. Stroll gets downrated for a very poor overtake on Ricciardo.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Faster throughout this time.
Russell over Latifi -- He made a pretty poor mistake, but he gets a pass for being far faster in qualifying and finishing ahead anyway.

And the ones I think are potentially controversial:

Sainz over Norris -- He qualified ahead on merit, and without his bad pit stop I think he would have finished there. Norris was very impressive at the end of the race, however.
Ricciardo over Ocon -- Slower in qualifying, but displayed notably superior race pace despite being on the harder tyre.

And finally, the two where even I'm not sure:

Gasly over Kvyat -- I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember why Gasly dropped back so far in the race, but his qualifying was hekkin' impressive.
Magnussen over Grosjean-- Qualifying was a wash, thanks to Grosjean's technical issues, but Magnussen finished ahead. I don't really remember their races either.
I agree with most of these. Though I honestly can see a reason for some ending up voting for Stroll. Due to nearly beating perez due to his mistake. Yes perez had come from a long way back, but that was because of qualifying. He'd built over a 15 second gap on ricciardo, who Stroll was behind initially. But due to a clumsy overtake attempt on Albon, he lost all that time and Stroll nearly passed him again.

I think I would leave Grosjean and Magnussen out of this vote. As we know, qualifying can't be compared, but the race, they looked dead even. Grosjean did start in the pit lane and was helped by the safety car, but that wasn't what got him on magnussen's tail who started in P15. From then on they both overtook each other 2 or 3 times and grosjean actually spent a fair bit of time ahead when adding up the laps even when not including the pit stops. There looked to be nothing to choose between them. What I find interesting is that they look to find it easier to pass the same car with similar pace compared to Hamilton vs Bottas last week. Is the Mercedes just terrible at following the same car? You could vote for Grosjean for catching up or Magnussen for finishing ahead. I thought they both did well this race.

Gasly had pitted on lap 24. Despite Kvyat starting 6 places behind, he'd already caught up to Gasly at this point. I'm wondering if they pitted him early because he was struggling as Kvyat had caught up. This put him behind the Williams in last. He was for some reason out on the hards, But I think this likely will have been planned. Kvyat went long on his softs and pitted on lap 36. Came out 2 seconds behind Gasly and seemed to fall back a bit. But then that turned around as Gasly seemed to struggle again and Kvyat overtook several laps later. Then Gasly also got passed by the 2 alfa romeos. The team then pitted him and even when he was on the softest tyre, he only managed to pass the 2 williams and remained around 20 seconds behind the 2 haas drivers. That gap only closed when Grosjean and Magnussen lost time fighting with Giovinazzi. To make this more apparent. When Gasly came out of the pits, he was around 25 seconds behind kvyat. He actually finished slightly further behind Kvyat than that (now around 27) despite being on faster tyres that were nearly 15 laps newer. Other than the 2 williams he had to get by, both him and Kvyat were in clean air. Unless gasly had some issue this race, his pace was just nowhere compared to Kvyat. And we can also factor in that Kvyat got impeded by Leclerc in qualifying.
The gasly votes are going a bit over the top IMO unless there was some issue which hasn't yet been confirmed.
Gasly said he had floor damage from the start.

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Exediron wrote:Okay, here are mine. First, the really obvious ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Lewis solidly outclassed his teammate throughout the entire weekend.
Vettel over Leclerc -- Ahead in qualifying, and he didn't make a boneheaded move that resulted in both cars failing to reach lap three.
Verstappen over Albon -- It wasn't even close. Honestly, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Albon is just Gasly with (much) better racecraft.
Perez over Stroll -- Surprisingly poor in qualifying, but delivered a sterling race performance only slightly marred by contact with Albon. Stroll gets downrated for a very poor overtake on Ricciardo.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Faster throughout this time.
Russell over Latifi -- He made a pretty poor mistake, but he gets a pass for being far faster in qualifying and finishing ahead anyway.

And the ones I think are potentially controversial:

Sainz over Norris -- He qualified ahead on merit, and without his bad pit stop I think he would have finished there. Norris was very impressive at the end of the race, however.
Ricciardo over Ocon -- Slower in qualifying, but displayed notably superior race pace despite being on the harder tyre.

And finally, the two where even I'm not sure:

Gasly over Kvyat -- I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember why Gasly dropped back so far in the race, but his qualifying was hekkin' impressive.
Magnussen over Grosjean-- Qualifying was a wash, thanks to Grosjean's technical issues, but Magnussen finished ahead. I don't really remember their races either.
I agree with most of these. Though I honestly can see a reason for some ending up voting for Stroll. Due to nearly beating perez due to his mistake. Yes perez had come from a long way back, but that was because of qualifying. He'd built over a 15 second gap on ricciardo, who Stroll was behind initially. But due to a clumsy overtake attempt on Albon, he lost all that time and Stroll nearly passed him again.

I think I would leave Grosjean and Magnussen out of this vote. As we know, qualifying can't be compared, but the race, they looked dead even. Grosjean did start in the pit lane and was helped by the safety car, but that wasn't what got him on magnussen's tail who started in P15. From then on they both overtook each other 2 or 3 times and grosjean actually spent a fair bit of time ahead when adding up the laps even when not including the pit stops. There looked to be nothing to choose between them. What I find interesting is that they look to find it easier to pass the same car with similar pace compared to Hamilton vs Bottas last week. Is the Mercedes just terrible at following the same car? You could vote for Grosjean for catching up or Magnussen for finishing ahead. I thought they both did well this race.

Gasly had pitted on lap 24. Despite Kvyat starting 6 places behind, he'd already caught up to Gasly at this point. I'm wondering if they pitted him early because he was struggling as Kvyat had caught up. This put him behind the Williams in last. He was for some reason out on the hards, But I think this likely will have been planned. Kvyat went long on his softs and pitted on lap 36. Came out 2 seconds behind Gasly and seemed to fall back a bit. But then that turned around as Gasly seemed to struggle again and Kvyat overtook several laps later. Then Gasly also got passed by the 2 alfa romeos. The team then pitted him and even when he was on the softest tyre, he only managed to pass the 2 williams and remained around 20 seconds behind the 2 haas drivers. That gap only closed when Grosjean and Magnussen lost time fighting with Giovinazzi. To make this more apparent. When Gasly came out of the pits, he was around 25 seconds behind kvyat. He actually finished slightly further behind Kvyat than that (now around 27) despite being on faster tyres that were nearly 15 laps newer. Other than the 2 williams he had to get by, both him and Kvyat were in clean air. Unless gasly had some issue this race, his pace was just nowhere compared to Kvyat. And we can also factor in that Kvyat got impeded by Leclerc in qualifying.
The gasly votes are going a bit over the top IMO unless there was some issue which hasn't yet been confirmed.
Gasly said he had floor damage from the start.
Yep, watching the replay, Ricciardo contacted his right rear just slightly, but to me it just looked to be on the tyre which survived. But the team also have confirmed that it looked to have signs of damage that they need to investigate. However, I still think Kvyat should have more votes than he does. He likely missed out on a better qualifying position due to Leclerc and finished in the points with far less retirements than the last race.

mikeyg123
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Exediron wrote:Okay, here are mine. First, the really obvious ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Lewis solidly outclassed his teammate throughout the entire weekend.
Vettel over Leclerc -- Ahead in qualifying, and he didn't make a boneheaded move that resulted in both cars failing to reach lap three.
Verstappen over Albon -- It wasn't even close. Honestly, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Albon is just Gasly with (much) better racecraft.
Perez over Stroll -- Surprisingly poor in qualifying, but delivered a sterling race performance only slightly marred by contact with Albon. Stroll gets downrated for a very poor overtake on Ricciardo.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- Faster throughout this time.
Russell over Latifi -- He made a pretty poor mistake, but he gets a pass for being far faster in qualifying and finishing ahead anyway.

And the ones I think are potentially controversial:

Sainz over Norris -- He qualified ahead on merit, and without his bad pit stop I think he would have finished there. Norris was very impressive at the end of the race, however.
Ricciardo over Ocon -- Slower in qualifying, but displayed notably superior race pace despite being on the harder tyre.

And finally, the two where even I'm not sure:

Gasly over Kvyat -- I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't remember why Gasly dropped back so far in the race, but his qualifying was hekkin' impressive.
Magnussen over Grosjean-- Qualifying was a wash, thanks to Grosjean's technical issues, but Magnussen finished ahead. I don't really remember their races either.
I agree with most of these. Though I honestly can see a reason for some ending up voting for Stroll. Due to nearly beating perez due to his mistake. Yes perez had come from a long way back, but that was because of qualifying. He'd built over a 15 second gap on ricciardo, who Stroll was behind initially. But due to a clumsy overtake attempt on Albon, he lost all that time and Stroll nearly passed him again.

I think I would leave Grosjean and Magnussen out of this vote. As we know, qualifying can't be compared, but the race, they looked dead even. Grosjean did start in the pit lane and was helped by the safety car, but that wasn't what got him on magnussen's tail who started in P15. From then on they both overtook each other 2 or 3 times and grosjean actually spent a fair bit of time ahead when adding up the laps even when not including the pit stops. There looked to be nothing to choose between them. What I find interesting is that they look to find it easier to pass the same car with similar pace compared to Hamilton vs Bottas last week. Is the Mercedes just terrible at following the same car? You could vote for Grosjean for catching up or Magnussen for finishing ahead. I thought they both did well this race.

Gasly had pitted on lap 24. Despite Kvyat starting 6 places behind, he'd already caught up to Gasly at this point. I'm wondering if they pitted him early because he was struggling as Kvyat had caught up. This put him behind the Williams in last. He was for some reason out on the hards, But I think this likely will have been planned. Kvyat went long on his softs and pitted on lap 36. Came out 2 seconds behind Gasly and seemed to fall back a bit. But then that turned around as Gasly seemed to struggle again and Kvyat overtook several laps later. Then Gasly also got passed by the 2 alfa romeos. The team then pitted him and even when he was on the softest tyre, he only managed to pass the 2 williams and remained around 20 seconds behind the 2 haas drivers. That gap only closed when Grosjean and Magnussen lost time fighting with Giovinazzi. To make this more apparent. When Gasly came out of the pits, he was around 25 seconds behind kvyat. He actually finished slightly further behind Kvyat than that (now around 27) despite being on faster tyres that were nearly 15 laps newer. Other than the 2 williams he had to get by, both him and Kvyat were in clean air. Unless gasly had some issue this race, his pace was just nowhere compared to Kvyat. And we can also factor in that Kvyat got impeded by Leclerc in qualifying.
The gasly votes are going a bit over the top IMO unless there was some issue which hasn't yet been confirmed.
Gasly said he had floor damage from the start.
Yep, watching the replay, Ricciardo contacted his right rear just slightly, but to me it just looked to be on the tyre which survived. But the team also have confirmed that it looked to have signs of damage that they need to investigate. However, I still think Kvyat should have more votes than he does. He likely missed out on a better qualifying position due to Leclerc and finished in the points with far less retirements than the last race.
Kvyat didn't beat anyone you wouldn't expect him to beat though did he? He beat all the drivers who finished in slower cars and lost to all the ones in equal or better machinery. So he finished exactly where you would expect him to. It wasn't an exceptional race and I see no reason to suppose he would have been faster than Gasly had his car not been damaged.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I still don't see why Gasly has 9 votes vs 1 for Kvyat (i haven't decided mine yet)

Qualifying shouldn't be judged against Kvyat that harshly because he got impeded. And from what we saw in the race we can't prove gasly was better at all. Is it just qualifying that people are basing the votes from? Basically if it is fair to vote in qualifying given Kvyat's run got messed up before conditions got worse, it is almost fair to vote for Kvyat for the race. Either way I'd day it is more like neither of them should be voted now.

typaH4okc
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Yep, watching the replay, Ricciardo contacted his right rear just slightly, but to me it just looked to be on the tyre which survived. But the team also have confirmed that it looked to have signs of damage that they need to investigate. However, I still think Kvyat should have more votes than he does. He likely missed out on a better qualifying position due to Leclerc and finished in the points with far less retirements than the last race.
Kvyat didn't beat anyone you wouldn't expect him to beat though did he? He beat all the drivers who finished in slower cars and lost to all the ones in equal or better machinery. So he finished exactly where you would expect him to. It wasn't an exceptional race and I see no reason to suppose he would have been faster than Gasly had his car not been damaged.
Can't believe people are picking Gasly over Kvyat in this one, confirms my suspicion of how underrated Kvyat is. He thoroughly outperformed Gasly. Kept up the pace in the first stint on the harder tires, the switched to hards while everyone on his strategy was getting softs (no idea why). Caught up and passed him easily and pulled away while Gasly couldn't manage and was called in again to get softs. Even if Gasly had damage (couldn't have been too bad) you can't assume that he would have been faster.

On a side note, disappointed with Albon today, if he keeps this up he'll lose his seat. In this case if RB decide not to sign Vettel (which they should) they have to go for Kvyat. He's clearly better that both Albon and Gasly on Sundays.

JN23
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by JN23 »

I think there’s more chance of me getting that Red Bull seat than Kvyat and I’ve never raced a kart.

typaH4okc
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

JN23 wrote:I think there’s more chance of me getting that Red Bull seat than Kvyat and I’ve never raced a kart.
Well, what are you waiting for, go race a kart! Maybe you'll get that seat.

TheGiantHogweed
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

typaH4okc wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Yep, watching the replay, Ricciardo contacted his right rear just slightly, but to me it just looked to be on the tyre which survived. But the team also have confirmed that it looked to have signs of damage that they need to investigate. However, I still think Kvyat should have more votes than he does. He likely missed out on a better qualifying position due to Leclerc and finished in the points with far less retirements than the last race.
Kvyat didn't beat anyone you wouldn't expect him to beat though did he? He beat all the drivers who finished in slower cars and lost to all the ones in equal or better machinery. So he finished exactly where you would expect him to. It wasn't an exceptional race and I see no reason to suppose he would have been faster than Gasly had his car not been damaged.
Can't believe people are picking Gasly over Kvyat in this one, confirms my suspicion of how underrated Kvyat is. He thoroughly outperformed Gasly. Kept up the pace in the first stint on the harder tires, the switched to hards while everyone on his strategy was getting softs (no idea why). Caught up and passed him easily and pulled away while Gasly couldn't manage and was called in again to get softs. Even if Gasly had damage (couldn't have been too bad) you can't assume that he would have been faster.

On a side note, disappointed with Albon today, if he keeps this up he'll lose his seat. In this case if RB decide not to sign Vettel (which they should) they have to go for Kvyat. He's clearly better that both Albon and Gasly on Sundays.

While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.

typaH4okc
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.
That kind of reasoning is taking it a bit too far, will make it hard to vote at all. Same thing can be said about the first race where Kvyat retired because of the damage and could have easily passed Gasly on fresher tires and won the head to head.

One thing I do agree with is that Gasly is a bit faster than Kvyat in quali, about .1 looks like.

WHoff78
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by WHoff78 »

Norris provided some fireworks at the end and ad a great race, but I think that Sainz is a little hard done by here. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the pitstop error put him behind a couple of competitors on track (Stroll perhaps?) and that really enabled Norris to use the longer first stint to close the gap to him while he got held up – which I enjoyed a lot by the way. I think without the pit stop issue they would have remained in different races. I think you have to also respect Sainz moving over for his team mate given those circumstances.

I really like Albon, and hope he’s stays in the Red Bull family, but if his race pace remains as it is then I don’t think it would be the worse thing for him to switch back to AlphaTauri for a couple of seasons, and keep Seb on the grid. I think that Verstappen will have Seb covered, so shouldn’t result in many issues between the two on track either. If they put seb on a rolling 1-year contract they can keep him honest.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

typaH4okc wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.
That kind of reasoning is taking it a bit too far, will make it hard to vote at all. Same thing can be said about the first race where Kvyat retired because of the damage and could have easily passed Gasly on fresher tires and won the head to head.

One thing I do agree with is that Gasly is a bit faster than Kvyat in quali, about .1 looks like.
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.
That kind of reasoning is taking it a bit too far, will make it hard to vote at all. Same thing can be said about the first race where Kvyat retired because of the damage and could have easily passed Gasly on fresher tires and won the head to head.

One thing I do agree with is that Gasly is a bit faster than Kvyat in quali, about .1 looks like.
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.
What are you basing that on?

I think if Kvyat had done something exceptional or even beat some faster cars then it would be a fair guess but as it is he finished exactly where you'd expect. There is no evidence to suggest Gasly would have done worse.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

typaH4okc wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Yep, watching the replay, Ricciardo contacted his right rear just slightly, but to me it just looked to be on the tyre which survived. But the team also have confirmed that it looked to have signs of damage that they need to investigate. However, I still think Kvyat should have more votes than he does. He likely missed out on a better qualifying position due to Leclerc and finished in the points with far less retirements than the last race.
Kvyat didn't beat anyone you wouldn't expect him to beat though did he? He beat all the drivers who finished in slower cars and lost to all the ones in equal or better machinery. So he finished exactly where you would expect him to. It wasn't an exceptional race and I see no reason to suppose he would have been faster than Gasly had his car not been damaged.
Can't believe people are picking Gasly over Kvyat in this one, confirms my suspicion of how underrated Kvyat is. He thoroughly outperformed Gasly. Kept up the pace in the first stint on the harder tires, the switched to hards while everyone on his strategy was getting softs (no idea why). Caught up and passed him easily and pulled away while Gasly couldn't manage and was called in again to get softs. Even if Gasly had damage (couldn't have been too bad) you can't assume that he would have been faster.

On a side note, disappointed with Albon today, if he keeps this up he'll lose his seat. In this case if RB decide not to sign Vettel (which they should) they have to go for Kvyat. He's clearly better that both Albon and Gasly on Sundays.
Gasly got damage on Lap 1 and Kvyat finished exactly where you would expect him to finish. Therefore it makes sense to go for Gasly as he was better on Saturday.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by Rockie »

So as of the time of typing this 2 individuals voted for Leclerc for ruining Ferrari's weekend?

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.
That kind of reasoning is taking it a bit too far, will make it hard to vote at all. Same thing can be said about the first race where Kvyat retired because of the damage and could have easily passed Gasly on fresher tires and won the head to head.

One thing I do agree with is that Gasly is a bit faster than Kvyat in quali, about .1 looks like.
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.
What are you basing that on?

I think if Kvyat had done something exceptional or even beat some faster cars then it would be a fair guess but as it is he finished exactly where you'd expect. There is no evidence to suggest Gasly would have done worse.
I'm basing it on what I wrote that you stopped highlighting in bold....

If Gasly was that badly effected by this damage, I'm not sure he will have continued as he wasn't much faster than the Williams. I personally think some the reason he was slow was also lack of pace myself. Even with the some suspected damage, on fresh tyres, he shouldn't have been slower on them than he was previously, which looked to be the case. Or Kvyat was pulling away.

What I disagree on is one of your other posts basign it on qualifying. How is that fair to compare when Kvyat got impeded just before conditions worsened? We couldn't prove his qualifyign result either. Basically I think I can see a valid point for going against voting for either driver now so I think I'll leave these 2 out too. I just don't see why it is so one sided.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by Exediron »

Rockie wrote:So as of the time of typing this 2 individuals voted for Leclerc for ruining Ferrari's weekend?
Some people will vote for their favorite driver no matter what.
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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
While it looks like he thoroughly out performed Gasly, we can't confirm it either way. Basically, he out qualified Kvyat - though was aided by Kvyat being impeded. Then all we saw was Kvyat doing a solid job and Gasly appearing to struggle. We can't Confirm how much the problem will have effected him. But In my opinion, neither should be voted, but if I had to, I would lean towards Kvyat. I also disagree with the number of votes for Gasly when we couldn't judge nearly 100% of his race while Kvyat looked fine.
That kind of reasoning is taking it a bit too far, will make it hard to vote at all. Same thing can be said about the first race where Kvyat retired because of the damage and could have easily passed Gasly on fresher tires and won the head to head.

One thing I do agree with is that Gasly is a bit faster than Kvyat in quali, about .1 looks like.
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.
What are you basing that on?

I think if Kvyat had done something exceptional or even beat some faster cars then it would be a fair guess but as it is he finished exactly where you'd expect. There is no evidence to suggest Gasly would have done worse.
I'm basing it on what I wrote that you stopped highlighting in bold....

If Gasly was that badly effected by this damage, I'm not sure he will have continued as he wasn't much faster than the Williams. I personally think some the reason he was slow was also lack of pace myself. Even with the some suspected damage, on fresh tyres, he shouldn't have been slower on them than he was previously, which looked to be the case. Or Kvyat was pulling away.

What I disagree on is one of your other posts basign it on qualifying. How is that fair to compare when Kvyat got impeded just before conditions worsened? We couldn't prove his qualifyign result either. Basically I think I can see a valid point for going against voting for either driver now so I think I'll leave these 2 out too. I just don't see why it is so one sided.
Only 11 finished last week. I can completely see why Alpha Tauri would leave him out. There is nothing to suggest Kvyat would have been faster without the damage. Absolutely none.

Gasly was quicker all the way through qualifying as well. He was really impressive. Again, given he qualified well up on what he should, Kvyat showed nothing to suggest he would be quicker.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Only 11 finished last week. I can completely see why Alpha Tauri would leave him out. There is nothing to suggest Kvyat would have been faster without the damage. Absolutely none.

Gasly was quicker all the way through qualifying as well. He was really impressive. Again, given he qualified well up on what he should, Kvyat showed nothing to suggest he would be quicker.
No he wasn't quicker all the way through qualifying, they were trading punches all the way through until the very end of Q2 when Kvyat got impeded.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

typaH4okc wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Only 11 finished last week. I can completely see why Alpha Tauri would leave him out. There is nothing to suggest Kvyat would have been faster without the damage. Absolutely none.

Gasly was quicker all the way through qualifying as well. He was really impressive. Again, given he qualified well up on what he should, Kvyat showed nothing to suggest he would be quicker.
No he wasn't quicker all the way through qualifying, they were trading punches all the way through until the very end of Q2 when Kvyat got impeded.
Kvyat got impeded with about 7 minutes remaining. This was admittedly when the weatehr turned for the worse though. It was however where Gasly had managed to improve and Kvyat didn't get the chance really. Gasly previously was only a fraction over a tenth of a second ahead with their two previous runs. They both had 1 realistic chance remaining to improve given the conditions, which Gasly got and Kvyat didn't because Leclerc ruined it. I think Kvyat will have managed to get through to Q3 at least, but it is true that Gasly genrally looked quicker in qualifying. But there is still nothing to prove that Kvyat couldn't have turned things around in Q3 just like it is being said that we can't prove who was better during the race.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Only 11 finished last week. I can completely see why Alpha Tauri would leave him out. There is nothing to suggest Kvyat would have been faster without the damage. Absolutely none.

Gasly was quicker all the way through qualifying as well. He was really impressive. Again, given he qualified well up on what he should, Kvyat showed nothing to suggest he would be quicker.
No he wasn't quicker all the way through qualifying, they were trading punches all the way through until the very end of Q2 when Kvyat got impeded.
Kvyat got impeded with about 7 minutes remaining. This was admittedly when the weatehr turned for the worse though. It was however where Gasly had managed to improve and Kvyat didn't get the chance really. Gasly previously was only a fraction over a tenth of a second ahead with their two previous runs. They both had 1 realistic chance remaining to improve given the conditions, which Gasly got and Kvyat didn't because Leclerc ruined it. I think Kvyat will have managed to get through to Q3 at least, but it is true that Gasly genrally looked quicker in qualifying. But there is still nothing to prove that Kvyat couldn't have turned things around in Q3 just like it is being said that we can't prove who was better during the race.
With one key difference.

Gasly did an exceptional job in Q3 whilst Kvyat did an average job in the race. On that basis alone it's much more likely Gasly could have beaten Kvyat in the race than Kvyat could have beaten Gasly in qualifying.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.
Don't think Gasly was significantly quicker than Kvyat in first race either. From what I remember Kvyat had a bad start and lost a couple of places which he regained seemingly quite easily and spend the rest of the first stint within a few seconds of Gasly. Then at the last safety car Kvyat was called in for soft tires and had good pace until he caught up to Ocon. Not sure what happened between them two but Kvyat was complaining that Ocon pushed him wide and over a curb which damaged his car leading to retirement. Didn't get your point about Albon.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by typaH4okc »

typaH4okc wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Gasly was significantly better than Kvyat the weekend before last. The team boss said Kvyat was a bit too impatient and Kvyat agreed that he was. This was heavily related to his damage due to his manner of driving. He was also some way behind Gasly which mostly the safety car helped close up. Vettel got by Kvyat on lap 69 and there was nearly a 10 second gap between him and Gasly. Kvyat had no chance to get Albon this time out and was clearly outperformed. I thought different at the time, But looking back at the highlights, it was pretty obvious that Albon was far better here.

The last race, I think Kvyat looked quick enough that he quite likely will have got by even without Gasly getting a bit of damage. If Gasly's damage was the reason to be as far back as he was, I think they will have chosen to retire him to save the engine. I think Kvyat just had more speed last race.
Don't think Gasly was significantly quicker than Kvyat in first race either. From what I remember Kvyat had a bad start and lost a couple of places which he regained seemingly quite easily and spend the rest of the first stint within a few seconds of Gasly. Then at the last safety car Kvyat was called in for soft tires and had good pace until he caught up to Ocon. Not sure what happened between them two but Kvyat was complaining that Ocon pushed him wide and over a curb which damaged his car leading to retirement. Didn't get your point about Albon.
Just watched the highlights, Vettel passed him just before his retirement, his car was already compromised the last few laps. All throughout the race he was within 3 seconds until his extra pit stop. safety cars had no play in it.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I'd put off voting for quite some time as there were several team mates I was not sure about.

Hamilton over Bottas. Hamilton was well ahead of everyone the entire weekend. Bottas may have had break issues in qualifying as well as some damage on his car costing him 1 - 2 tenths per lap in the race, but I don't think that will have closed the gap much on Hamilton either day.

Vettel over Leclerc. This was one of Leclerc's worst weekends. already qualifying behind Vettel as well as impeding Kvyat in qualifying. Then taking out them both on the first lao.

Verstappen over Albon. Another very easy option. Albon's pace seems nowhere. Verstappen had a problem later in the race which was apparently of his own making, but still, it did effect his car somewhat and he still finished nearly 10 seconds ahead of albon despite a pit stop to attempt fastest lap.

Norris over Sainz. This is a tough one and can understand those who voted for Sainz. Impressive in qualifying which was the exact opposite for Norris in practice and qualifying. Neither driver looked strong in the first half of the race and infact, I would say most notably that was Norris. He fell back initially and has some cars pass him and even when he got passed Ocon with issues, by lap 30, he was still in the position he started. But he did the longest first stint of anyone and used it really well. Sainz lost a bit of time in the pits, But if anything, I would describe his pace in the race as a whole as pretty poor, especially in the 2nd half. Norris was outstanding here and this is what just about allows me to vote for him. I don't think either were excellent overall this weekend.

Ricciardo over Ocon. Ocon qualified very well, but looked nowhere near Ricciardo pace wise in the race. He made it very hard for Ricciardo to get by, which wasn't really necessary. Ocon unfortunately retired, while Ricciardo looked to be very strong for the rest of the race.

Perez over Stroll. This was another close one. In my opinion, both should have easily been through to Q3. Stroll made it through to Q2 and made a mistake there that likely cost him Q3 - and that is stroll. Perez especially was poor in qualifying. This car on race day was easily 4th best. I first thought Stroll looked decent, but the speed Perez caught him and got by him and Ricciardo and pulled a 15 second gap made me think Stroll was just poor race pace wise again. I do agree Stroll should have got a penalty for what he did on Ricciardo though. Perez though gave himself damage on albon who had he started in a realistic qualifying position, he should have been well ahead. In the end, this undid Perez's 15 second advantage over Stroll and nearly turned their positions around. Including qualifying, this is the only reason why they are close. otherwise it is obvious Perez had the advantage.

Raikkonen over Giovinazzi.Giovinazzi really is underwhelming. I would quite possibly rate him as the weakest driver on the grid that we have had time to prove his ability. Crashing in qualifying and then again looking worse than Kimi in the race despite his pace being reasonable compared. But he got passed in the end and received a black and white flag at one stage. We can also note that Kimi's race got compromised a little at the start when he got stuck behind the carnage of Leclerc and vettel messing up.

Grosjean over Magnussen. Like Grosjean the previous race, Magnussen did well to get through to Q2. But Grosjean had technical problems yet again in qualifying resulting in not being able to set a lap. Then Hass did further work of some sort on his car late enough that he had to have a pit lane start. By lap 14, Grosjean had actually managed to get 2 places ahead of Magnussen. From this stage to near the end of the race, they were incredibly even. Easily the most matched pair of team mates this weekend. 10 or so laps later, Magnussen managed to get by again but Grosjean was staying within DRS range pretty much the entire time. Then by the time they both pitted, grosjean was still behind but managed to get by just after lap 50. They were both catching Giovinazzi pretty fast at this point. On lap 66 for them, apparently Grosjean was instructed to let Magnussen by to attempt to pass Giovinazzi. Magnussen took a few laps to get by and then Grosjean pretty much followed him through. The timing screens were showing +1 lap at the time they finished so I can't confirm how close to Kimi they were, but when they were last shown, Grosjean was less than half a second off Magnussen and both under a second from getting by kimi. As Grosjean had an order to let Magnussen by and he still always remained in DRS range, I think he had the pace to stay ahead on merit, despite starting in the pit lane. I again think he's been unfairly voted again as is often the case with Grosjean. But also think that they were both excellent this race for the ability of the car.

Russell over Latifi. Russell had a very good qualifying. If anything I think the wet may possibly help close the gap to the other teams for Williams rather than do the opposite which it used to. But 12th was very impressive. However, When he attempted to get by Magnussen, he simply lost grip and went into the gravel. He apologised and got on with his race, but only just beat his team mate. Not a good weekend in the end by his standards.

I've left Gasly and Kvyat out of this vote as we can't confirm just how much the damage was effecting Gasly during the race. Qualifying was impressive, but Kvyat also got impeded. While I think it is very unlikely Kvyat will have beaten him in qualifying anyway, I still think there is not really enough evidence to vote fairly this weekend.

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Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Styrian GP

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/18/im- ... nt-4473711

Some more interesting team orders and discussion here.

Kimi had a bit of bad luck and I still think he outperformed Giovinazzi, but Giovinazzi was apparently instructed to let Kimi by. In the end they were seperated by 3 positions though.

And confirmation of the team orders with Grosjean and Magnussen. As I'd said, they'd had a good battle throughout a lot of the race with each of them overtaking each other a few times. Up until the point right near the end, Grosjean got given orders to let Magnussen by which are shown in the article. Yes, Grosjean moaned as usual but do you blame him? He also instantly cleared Giovinazzi when Magnussen got by and they both got incredibly close (under a second) to Kimi. The positions will have been hard to swap at this stage but I totally understand Grosjean's frustration here. Given he had to have a pit lane start vs 15th for Magnussen, it is now pretty obvious that he was the better of the two in the team mate wars. I thought something like this could have happened so I just waited before voting to find out more.

I also feel that as Grosjean is known for moaning, that is the main thing that gets broadcast. As the article states, he also praised his team for the improvements over friday pretty much at the same time as making it clear how annoyed he was with the team orders after the race had finished. Not all drivers can say positive things in this sort of situation. It is messages like this that I think should be broadcast to show prove that he is still handy to have in the team and not just moaning all the time. The car looked far better than the previous race and both drivers racing looked pretty clean given they were within each others DRS range almost the whole race.

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