Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

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LBET
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by LBET »

spiritone wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:38 pm
This isn't a RP problem. This is a FIA problem. They have been total screwups for a long time. The secret ferrari deal got the teams going and now because they didn't do their job now we have the racing point problem. This should not be the headlines in a shortened season. For the die hard fans we can argue about this but the problem is for the casual fan the only word they see is CHEATING. So off course what is the headline in the sporting news, CHEATING SCANDLE. This is the last thing this sport needs. How about the FIA and the teams settle this behind closed doors and be PROFESSIONAL. The FIA has done a gherkin poor job this year of inconsistent driver penalties, the ferrari penalty and now this. Need to get this settled and quick. Time for teams to race and forget about trying to eliminate each other through protests.
100% agreed. The FIA looked at the car and the design process that led to the car and signed off. This could have all been sorted before the season started if pre-season scrutineering had been done more completely.

lucifers
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by lucifers »

LBET wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:07 am
spiritone wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:38 pm
This isn't a RP problem. This is a FIA problem. They have been total screwups for a long time. The secret ferrari deal got the teams going and now because they didn't do their job now we have the racing point problem. This should not be the headlines in a shortened season. For the die hard fans we can argue about this but the problem is for the casual fan the only word they see is CHEATING. So off course what is the headline in the sporting news, CHEATING SCANDLE. This is the last thing this sport needs. How about the FIA and the teams settle this behind closed doors and be PROFESSIONAL. The FIA has done a gherkin poor job this year of inconsistent driver penalties, the ferrari penalty and now this. Need to get this settled and quick. Time for teams to race and forget about trying to eliminate each other through protests.
100% agreed. The FIA looked at the car and the design process that led to the car and signed off. This could have all been sorted before the season started if pre-season scrutineering had been done more completely.
exactly

Asphalt_World
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Asphalt_World »

The more I think about this, if it does end up being proved that either Racing Point, Mercedes or both did something underhand, you have to wonder why they used such a visual part to copy, a part that although sounds fairly insignificant, is always are area that can change from race to race and plays a huge parts in a cars braking performance.

Think of all the other bits of a Mercedes that could have been copied!
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Siao7
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Siao7 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:37 pm
The more I think about this, if it does end up being proved that either Racing Point, Mercedes or both did something underhand, you have to wonder why they used such a visual part to copy, a part that although sounds fairly insignificant, is always are area that can change from race to race and plays a huge parts in a cars braking performance.

Think of all the other bits of a Mercedes that could have been copied!
Visually, they have!

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

Mclaren has dropped their appeal, Ferrari and Renault are continuing. Williams will announce in the morning what they plan to do.

Zazu
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Zazu »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:41 pm
Mclaren has dropped their appeal, Ferrari and Renault are continuing. Williams will announce in the morning what they plan to do.
I bet that was a very short phone call between Daimler/Mercedes and Mclaren. If Williams don't go through with the appeal it just makes the entire situation even more laughable

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Clarky
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Clarky »

Williams also decide not to appeal.

mikeyg123
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by mikeyg123 »

If anything is proof of Mercedes wrong doing it's this. If Mercedes are innocent why would they need to lean on their customers?

Harpo
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Harpo »

A more pleasant face, onctuous manners, and no thong, shouldn't deceive us : Toto Wolff is nothing more than an updated Flavio Briatore.
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

Zazu
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Zazu »

It's just comical.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe the car was reverse engineered just from pictutes and I sincerely hope an email trail or similar is found and Mercedes get treated like Mclaren after spygate

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

Zazu wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:18 pm
It's just comical.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe the car was reverse engineered just from pictutes and I sincerely hope an email trail or similar is found and Mercedes get treated like Mclaren after spygate
Wouldn’t it be more RP in the Mclaren situation than Mercedes?

j man
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by j man »

It's not comparable to Spygate at all. Assuming the allegations are true, the transfer of technical info has the full consent of both parties.

I am more interested in the extent to which this differs to what Red Bull having been passing down to Toro Rosso / Alpha Tauri and what Ferrari have been passing down to Haas and Alfa Romeo over the past few years. Racing Point have been claiming that what they have done is no different, and that if they are punished then the others should be as well.

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Exediron
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Exediron »

j man wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:35 pm
It's not comparable to Spygate at all. Assuming the allegations are true, the transfer of technical info has the full consent of both parties.

I am more interested in the extent to which this differs to what Red Bull having been passing down to Toro Rosso / Alpha Tauri and what Ferrari have been passing down to Haas and Alfa Romeo over the past few years. Racing Point have been claiming that what they have done is no different, and that if they are punished then the others should be as well.
I don't think Haas has benefited from any illegal technical help from Ferrari since their first year (it's well known that they worked with Ferrari engineers in the wind tunnel prior to their debut). They buy every legal part from Ferrari, but I think they would be a sizable amount more competitive if they received actual design help. Similarly, I don't see any reason to believe Alfa Romeo is being helped in their design. These are both backmarker teams.

For Alpha Tauri -- formerly known as Toro Rosso -- I have always wondered how blurry the line might be. But if Mercedes truly did aid Racing Point in creating a functional duplicate of their 2019 car, I think that would be a clear step beyond the level of help any other team has received.
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tootsie323
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by tootsie323 »

JN23 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:42 pm
Zazu wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:18 pm
It's just comical.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe the car was reverse engineered just from pictutes and I sincerely hope an email trail or similar is found and Mercedes get treated like Mclaren after spygate
Wouldn’t it be more RP in the Mclaren situation than Mercedes?
If it is found that Mercedes allowed / colluded in the information gathering, they would be in trouble. Btw, that's rather a big 'if.'
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JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

Renault have withdrawn their appeal!

https://twitter.com/renaultf1team/statu ... 84488?s=21

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mmi16
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by mmi16 »

Inappropriate post removed.
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-K-
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by -K- »

Surprised that Renault withdrew it. I wonder is it a financial thing as Ferrari are the team best placed to continue if so, and appear to be the only one doing so.

Though watching Racing Point this weekend, part of me wonders if they have voluntarily made some kind of change themselves.

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

-K- wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:05 pm
Surprised that Renault withdrew it. I wonder is it a financial thing as Ferrari are the team best placed to continue if so, and appear to be the only one doing so.

Though watching Racing Point this weekend, part of me wonders if they have voluntarily made some kind of change themselves.
The way FIA works, a secret deal behind closed doors is certainly not out of this world ... ;)

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Invade
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Invade »

Did RP get another reprimand today?

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Flash2k11
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by Flash2k11 »

Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:27 pm
Did RP get another reprimand today?
Yes, and this time Ferrari are the ones to appeal against it.
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pc27b
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by pc27b »

seems to be about next year. ferrari could give haas their car design. horner has pretty much said red bull will have 4 of the same cars on track, and i wouldn't blame them, if rp is deemed legal. ferrari pu and rpoint=more bungling from the fia

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

pc27b wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:32 am
seems to be about next year. ferrari could give haas their car design. horner has pretty much said red bull will have 4 of the same cars on track, and i wouldn't blame them, if rp is deemed legal. ferrari pu and rpoint=more bungling from the fia
Haven't they FIA said they're changing regulations though to make sure this doesn't happen next year? So we won't be able to see four Red Bull cars etc.

pc27b
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by pc27b »

i don't know ? but the rp has exact merc parts on it and is still racing. ferrari were cheating the pu rules (and paying the price now) but didn't get penalized last year. so i have little faith in the fia

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

pc27b wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:41 am
i don't know ? but the rp has exact merc parts on it and is still racing. ferrari were cheating the pu rules (and paying the price now) but didn't get penalized last year. so i have little faith in the fia
My understanding of the rules is that RP running those parts isn’t against the rules now, but would be next year if the FIA do change the rules as they’ve said.

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

Racing Point have withdrawn their appeal which just leaves Ferrari. I think I read the other day that Ferrari would withdraw their appeal if rules prohibited this in future, which according to RaceFans has now been agreed, so I’d expect that to be withdrawn in the coming days.

JN23
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Re: Salty Renault Protest Racing Points Legality.

Post by JN23 »

Ferrari confirmed post-race that they have withdrawn their appeal as expected. I imagine that's that.

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