2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

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DFWdude
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by DFWdude »

Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

DFWdude wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.
I dont watch a lot of IndyCar but I caught the Road America race last night and I have to say it was really impressive. Overall it was a better race to watch than the F1 IMO, and it's not like the GP was a particularly boring race either.

I dont know if its camera angles, or the track being bumpy but the cars looked so much more alive, and frankly faster, than F1. IndyCar have a much better way of conveying speed to the audience IMO, likely their use of camera angles playing a big role.

I'd put money on it that if you showed people with no racing knowledge at all the raw footage of the IndyCar and F1 races from yesterday and asked them which cars were faster, most would guess IndyCar. Something F1 should really look at to work out how to improve their coverage.

shay550
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by shay550 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.
I dont watch a lot of IndyCar but I caught the Road America race last night and I have to say it was really impressive. Overall it was a better race to watch than the F1 IMO, and it's not like the GP was a particularly boring race either.

I dont know if its camera angles, or the track being bumpy but the cars looked so much more alive, and frankly faster, than F1. IndyCar have a much better way of conveying speed to the audience IMO, likely their use of camera angles playing a big role.

I'd put money on it that if you showed people with no racing knowledge at all the raw footage of the IndyCar and F1 races from yesterday and asked them which cars were faster, most would guess IndyCar. Something F1 should really look at to work out how to improve their coverage.
]

Both F1 and Indycar suffer from a lack of diversity - F1 is almost entirely European, and Indycar is mostly American. People are deluded to think we are seeing the best of the best drive in F1 when most of the drivers are kids of former racing drivers and sons of tycoons. There needs to be more access for drivers from everywhere to get into F1 - it's just way too much of a rich man's sport at the moment.

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Clarky
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Option or Prime wrote:Hamilton is clearly the best driver in the best car. Which makes the main difference. Bottas as no 1 wouldn't win all the races in a season.

Hamilton's qualifying in the wet was a lesson to the other drivers, Horner saying Max would have been 0.3 sec of if he hadn't spun was a joke.
Even 0.3 sec is a big margin but why didn't he set that time then, because he was going backwards.

I was warming to Max but I'm getting a bit fed up of the moaning now. As for Horner why couldn't he just recognise a stunning lap?
Strange thing to say when Max was already 6/10's down after sector 2.

cmberry20
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by cmberry20 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.
I dont watch a lot of IndyCar but I caught the Road America race last night and I have to say it was really impressive. Overall it was a better race to watch than the F1 IMO, and it's not like the GP was a particularly boring race either.

I dont know if its camera angles, or the track being bumpy but the cars looked so much more alive, and frankly faster, than F1. IndyCar have a much better way of conveying speed to the audience IMO, likely their use of camera angles playing a big role.

I'd put money on it that if you showed people with no racing knowledge at all the raw footage of the IndyCar and F1 races from yesterday and asked them which cars were faster, most would guess IndyCar. Something F1 should really look at to work out how to improve their coverage.
I watched the first half of Indycar yesterday, and I had to turn it off.
The whole cringe-worthy build up ('MERICA **** YEAH!!!) was bad enough, but then the race started & it seemed like a bunch of amateurs at the go-kart track. No one seems to have any spatial awareness & were banging into one another - on the straight. Then it takes over a minute to change the front wing. Then to top it all off, someone almost get sliced in two by the end of a solid concrete wall that sticks out at the side of the track. Also, the cars look so slow - F3 or worse.
Pretty awful to be honest.

pokerman
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:Verstappen might be in luck today (reliability pending). I suspect Hamilton may have quite a draggy setup.
...to explain his wet pole lap?
Yes, although that theory was pretty conclusively negated by the race.
Fair enough, so now you're a believer? :)
Haha, always have been. But that gap to Bottas' was astronomical.
Didn't Hamilton gap Bottas by 2 seconds in the 2017 Monza wet qualifying?
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pokerman
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Verstappen33 wrote:This race wasn't the best race unfortunately. We can conclude Mercedes will win the title again in 2020. The drivers are good but the team is so good that the drivers don't matter that much anymore. Put Russel in the car and he will challenge Hamilton for that Mercedes championship. It is a great drive from Hamilton but havibg the best car makes all the difference. No need to push the car beyond it's capabilities like the rest of the field has to do in order to gain a posistion but risking a lot while doing so. It's a mechanical sport of course but it's starting to be a bit silly hearing Toto talk. That car can gain more speed when needed. They are light years ahead. So good job from Mercedes. I guess the two drivers don't care. They have their mini championship. Hamilton knows he can beat Bottas. (He wasn't that much of a fight for Massa at Williams) so another title to his name.

He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars?
If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.


Something needs to change big time.
I'm not sure what you mean by that?

You're a Verstappen fan, by my reckoning Verstappen turned down the chance to drive for Mercedes 3 times, I can only sympathise with drivers that are never given the chance.
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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

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Podiums: (8)

pokerman
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:Hamilton is clearly the best driver in the best car. Which makes the main difference. Bottas as no 1 wouldn't win all the races in a season.

Hamilton's qualifying in the wet was a lesson to the other drivers, Horner saying Max would have been 0.3 sec of if he hadn't spun was a joke.
Even 0.3 sec is a big margin but why didn't he set that time then, because he was going backwards.

I was warming to Max but I'm getting a bit fed up of the moaning now. As for Horner why couldn't he just recognise a stunning lap?
That's because you can't get much saltier than Horner, what was said was a nonsense.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

pokerman
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.
I dont watch a lot of IndyCar but I caught the Road America race last night and I have to say it was really impressive. Overall it was a better race to watch than the F1 IMO, and it's not like the GP was a particularly boring race either.

I dont know if its camera angles, or the track being bumpy but the cars looked so much more alive, and frankly faster, than F1. IndyCar have a much better way of conveying speed to the audience IMO, likely their use of camera angles playing a big role.

I'd put money on it that if you showed people with no racing knowledge at all the raw footage of the IndyCar and F1 races from yesterday and asked them which cars were faster, most would guess IndyCar. Something F1 should really look at to work out how to improve their coverage.
On paper Indycars should be a great series but I don't watch because of the SC lotteries.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

j man
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by j man »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:He is of course the best. If you win you are.
But would he really think he is the best knowing other young guy's would challenge / beat him in different cars? If all the cars he drove were championship cars, it's hard to imagine he will not think he is the best even though the material was the best.

Something needs to change big time.
Really? The question you pose has been the question since 1950. Nothing has changed, and why should it? F1 is a technology series first... not really a driver series.

If you want to see drivers competing in the same cars, try watching American Indycar. The chassis are identical. Only a couple choices of engines.

Watching an Indycar race is like watching grass grow... COTA lap times in an F1 car shatter the lap times in an Indycar by 20 seconds a lap. Worse, the grandstands at any typical Indycar race are nearly as empty BEFORE the Covid-19 crisis as after the pandemic began. This shows that fans are not really interested in watching the best drivers compete in equal cars.
I dont watch a lot of IndyCar but I caught the Road America race last night and I have to say it was really impressive. Overall it was a better race to watch than the F1 IMO, and it's not like the GP was a particularly boring race either.

I dont know if its camera angles, or the track being bumpy but the cars looked so much more alive, and frankly faster, than F1. IndyCar have a much better way of conveying speed to the audience IMO, likely their use of camera angles playing a big role.

I'd put money on it that if you showed people with no racing knowledge at all the raw footage of the IndyCar and F1 races from yesterday and asked them which cars were faster, most would guess IndyCar. Something F1 should really look at to work out how to improve their coverage.
I think the impression of speed in IndyCar comes from the lack of aero grip. You can see the cars look like so much more of a handful through the corners, dangling on the edge of adhesion. F1 cars have so much aero grip that they look like they are on rails, and as a result you lose that driving spectacle that motor racing is supposed to provide. As has been discussed on this forum before, the proliferation of aerodynamics has ruined F1 in so many ways.

I too like IndyCar. There is so much about it that F1 could learn from.

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DFWdude
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by DFWdude »

The impression of speed in Indycars is two-fold:

1) In Indycar, the cameras are permitted to be closer to the track than in F1. F1 likes to use cameras in tall towers and from helicopters. Think of the view overlooking turn 4 in Austria. That camera was a good 200 meeters distant. In addition...

2) Indycars are so much slower than F1 that camera operators can physically zoom in closer and maintain cars in frame. Faster cars are harder to track, so camera operators zoom out a bit to keep them in frame. Spoken from some broadcast camera experience.

For comparison between F1 and Indycars at COTA, watch this side by side video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

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