2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

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Exediron
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
That's an odd opinion. I don't personally think Mercedes are cheating, but why would that belief make you automatically not an F1 fan?
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pokerman
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
That's an odd opinion. I don't personally think Mercedes are cheating, but why would that belief make you automatically not an F1 fan?
A fan of Mercedes, if you believe thay are cheating to win then would you watch?
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2016: 4th Place

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2018: 7th place

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Exediron
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
That's an odd opinion. I don't personally think Mercedes are cheating, but why would that belief make you automatically not an F1 fan?
A fan of Mercedes, if you believe thay are cheating to win then would you watch?
I didn't get the impression the poster was a Mercedes fan. Plenty of people watch and enjoy F1 who don't like Mercedes.
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Siao7
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Siao7 »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
That's an odd opinion. I don't personally think Mercedes are cheating, but why would that belief make you automatically not an F1 fan?
A fan of Mercedes, if you believe thay are cheating to win then would you watch?
I didn't get the impression the poster was a Mercedes fan. Plenty of people watch and enjoy F1 who don't like Mercedes.
Yeah, bizarre thinking. Did all the McLaren fans stop watching at once in 2007?

pokerman
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by pokerman »

pokerman wrote: If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
I don't understand were all the confusion comes from, were do I mention F1 I only mention Mercedes so when I said he wouldn't be a fan then that would be of Mercedes.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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Siao7
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
pokerman wrote: If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
I don't understand were all the confusion comes from, were do I mention F1 I only mention Mercedes so when I said he wouldn't be a fan then that would be of Mercedes.
That's a red herring, Mercedes is not the issue here, the bit in red is, it doesn't matter which team's fan you are. Why would you stop watching (whichever team) if your favourite team (the same whoever) was found to be cheating?

It makes little sense questioning someone for watching if their favourite team is cheating. I can't think any reason why they should stop watching.

pokerman
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
pokerman wrote: If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
I don't understand were all the confusion comes from, were do I mention F1 I only mention Mercedes so when I said he wouldn't be a fan then that would be of Mercedes.
That's a red herring, Mercedes is not the issue here, the bit in red is, it doesn't matter which team's fan you are. Why would you stop watching (whichever team) if your favourite team (the same whoever) was found to be cheating?

It makes little sense questioning someone for watching if their favourite team is cheating. I can't think any reason why they should stop watching.
I formed the opinion that Battle Far wouldn't have been a Mercedes fan to have said this.
Battle Far wrote:The cynic in me would suggest that the difference between Mercedes & Ferrari is that Mercedes haven't been caught...


Yet...
You seem to have a bigger problem with what I said.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

Siao7
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
pokerman wrote: If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
I don't understand were all the confusion comes from, were do I mention F1 I only mention Mercedes so when I said he wouldn't be a fan then that would be of Mercedes.
That's a red herring, Mercedes is not the issue here, the bit in red is, it doesn't matter which team's fan you are. Why would you stop watching (whichever team) if your favourite team (the same whoever) was found to be cheating?

It makes little sense questioning someone for watching if their favourite team is cheating. I can't think any reason why they should stop watching.
I formed the opinion that Battle Far wouldn't have been a Mercedes fan to have said this.
Battle Far wrote:The cynic in me would suggest that the difference between Mercedes & Ferrari is that Mercedes haven't been caught...


Yet...
You seem to have a bigger problem with what I said.
That is not what Exediron quoted, try again. I don't have an issue, just finding it a bizarre logic, as Exediron explained it. Anyway

pokerman
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
pokerman wrote: If you honestly think that Mercedes are only winning because they are cheating then I don't know why you would watch given you wouldn't be a fan as such.
I don't understand were all the confusion comes from, were do I mention F1 I only mention Mercedes so when I said he wouldn't be a fan then that would be of Mercedes.
That's a red herring, Mercedes is not the issue here, the bit in red is, it doesn't matter which team's fan you are. Why would you stop watching (whichever team) if your favourite team (the same whoever) was found to be cheating?

It makes little sense questioning someone for watching if their favourite team is cheating. I can't think any reason why they should stop watching.
I formed the opinion that Battle Far wouldn't have been a Mercedes fan to have said this.
Battle Far wrote:The cynic in me would suggest that the difference between Mercedes & Ferrari is that Mercedes haven't been caught...


Yet...
You seem to have a bigger problem with what I said.
That is not what Exediron quoted, try again. I don't have an issue, just finding it a bizarre logic, as Exediron explained it. Anyway
Exediron mistook what I said, anyway still interesting how the Mercedes are cheating got a free pass.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

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Exediron
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:Exediron mistook what I said, anyway still interesting how the Mercedes are cheating got a free pass.
It got a free pass from me because it's:

a) Impossible to prove one way or another at this time
b) Probably true

The poster was making the point that every F1 team is likely cheating to a larger or smaller degree at all times, something that I personally agree with. Every team worth their competitive salt is pushing against the rules and bending them; they have clever little systems on their cars that they've rolled the dice on, systems they know don't conform to the spirit of the rules but that they think are at least 50/50 on passing the letter of the law.

If you break it down into major, wilful cheating incidents -- such as spoofing the fuel flow sensor -- then it becomes less likely that any given team is engaging in that level of antics.
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jono794
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by jono794 »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Exediron mistook what I said, anyway still interesting how the Mercedes are cheating got a free pass.
It got a free pass from me because it's:

a) Impossible to prove one way or another at this time
b) Probably true

The poster was making the point that every F1 team is likely cheating to a larger or smaller degree at all times, something that I personally agree with. Every team worth their competitive salt is pushing against the rules and bending them; they have clever little systems on their cars that they've rolled the dice on, systems they know don't conform to the spirit of the rules but that they think are at least 50/50 on passing the letter of the law.

If you break it down into major, wilful cheating incidents -- such as spoofing the fuel flow sensor -- then it becomes less likely that any given team is engaging in that level of antics.
Yep, there are only two ways to win in motorsport. Cheat, or use power and influence to write your own rules. If you're not doing at least one of these things, you're not winning.
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bourbon19
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Re: 2017 - 2019 just an illusion after all?

Post by bourbon19 »

jono794 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Exediron mistook what I said, anyway still interesting how the Mercedes are cheating got a free pass.
It got a free pass from me because it's:

a) Impossible to prove one way or another at this time
b) Probably true

The poster was making the point that every F1 team is likely cheating to a larger or smaller degree at all times, something that I personally agree with. Every team worth their competitive salt is pushing against the rules and bending them; they have clever little systems on their cars that they've rolled the dice on, systems they know don't conform to the spirit of the rules but that they think are at least 50/50 on passing the letter of the law.

If you break it down into major, wilful cheating incidents -- such as spoofing the fuel flow sensor -- then it becomes less likely that any given team is engaging in that level of antics.
Yep, there are only two ways to win in motorsport. Cheat, or use power and influence to write your own rules. If you're not doing at least one of these things, you're not winning.
Then there's that team that is alleged to be doing both of these things - for years - and still losing big time...

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