2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

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JN23
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

DFWdude wrote:
spiritone wrote:If you think lewis was at fault watch the first 3 corners at the start to see how Albon defended against Hamilton. Hamilton got squeezed off the track and managed to avoid Albon.
Yes, indeed.

It seems that the race organizers/stewards in Austria seem bent on orchestrating the outcome of the races there.

The commentators mentioned before the start that Hamilton had "received grid penalties in 3 of the last 4 Austria races," (my addition...) unlike anywhere else on the yearly calendar. I'm too lazy to look it up. But I can't remember HAM being grid penalized that many times in the balance of his career. Hmmmmm? :?:

Add the multiple SCs to bunch the field, and the final 5-second penalty to Hamilton, and a pattern starts to emerge. IMO, the penalty given to Perez after Hamilton's were to deflect attention from the certain controversy over Hamilton's.

It will be interesting to see if Hamilton draws another grid penalty before next week's race in Austria.
I think this is stretching for a conspiracy. He got a 5 place gearbox penalty in 2017 and a three place grid penalty for blocking Raikkonen in qualifying last year. I think the qualifying penalty today was fair as well but the timing and how it happened were wrong. Not sure he can complain about the 5 second penalty in the race either tbh.

Perez was speeding in the pit lane, that's the most slam dunk of all slam dunk penalties.

Mercedes had gearbox issues today, they might have to change them next week so Hamilton will get another penalty then :twisted:

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Greenman wrote:.

That is no excuse, let alone a reason. They were both penalties, or both not penalties.

.
It is the reason. It's how they have always done things. It's nothing new.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15036 ... 1591901012

Hamilton was going to go longer and put on the medium tyres but the SC ruined it, I really think it could have worked aswell.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Channel 4 seem very against the penalty for Hamilton. They didn't even change their view on the replay. I'm with sky on this one once they watched the replays.

Channel 4 seem to be blaming Albon more than Hamilton which I think is ridiculous.

FormulaFun
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Channel 4 seem very against the penalty for Hamilton. They didn't even change their view on the replay. I'm with sky on this one once they watched the replays.

Channel 4 seem to be blaming Albon more than Hamilton which I think is ridiculous.
From what I have seen on majority of other websites it seems to be considered a racing incident by most

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Ugh, i know the bbc are a british broadcaster but their report on the race this morning had no mention of lecercs great recovery or even the winner. Their main focus was obviously hamilton and then they also mention norris, who is also british. It seems pretty silly to me that they don't mention the podium line up. Since when would a sports report not mention the winner at all?

JN23
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Ugh, i know the bbc are a british broadcaster but their report on the race this morning had no mention of lecercs great recovery or even the winner. Their main focus was obviously hamilton and then they also mention norris, who is also british. It seems pretty silly to me that they don't mention the podium line up. Since when would a sports report not mention the winner at all?
If you're taking about this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53299094 - Bottas and Leclerc are both mentioned.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Quite amusing that both of Mclarens recent podiums were only due because of Hamilton hitting Albon :D

And that said, one of their podiums before that was due to Ricciardo's disqualification in Australia 2014.


So to be realistic, the only actual podium finish for Mclaren in the hybrid era was by Magnussen in the first race. All 3 of the others were promoted up from 4th and were a little fortunate.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:Ugh, i know the bbc are a british broadcaster but their report on the race this morning had no mention of lecercs great recovery or even the winner. Their main focus was obviously hamilton and then they also mention norris, who is also british. It seems pretty silly to me that they don't mention the podium line up. Since when would a sports report not mention the winner at all?
If you're taking about this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53299094 - Bottas and Leclerc are both mentioned.
A report on BBC breakfast on TV is what I'm on about. Even when they went to the sports section and showed brief highlights of the race, this was where they only mentioned what I said.

Siao7
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

Greenman wrote:.

That is no excuse, let alone a reason. They were both penalties, or both not penalties.

.
I remember reading that stewards do consider the outcome of any incident when reviewing them. Quite correctly in my opinion, Vettel only harmed himself and nothing more to see frankly.

pc27b
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pc27b »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Sky obviously think it is worth repeating brundle repeating that alex needs more patience. and then he's now saying afterwards. "I feel really sorry for Alex"

Think before speaking a bit more then. DC and Ben Edwards are so much better than Brundle with crofty as commentators...

they were laughably bad yesterday. after every car dropped out, they would act like it was surprising a car had reliability problems and compare it to other years at this track-when it was a middle of the season race-and there was little reliability issues. horner seemed stumped when they brought it up to them. "uh, this is the first race of the season, even if it is july" ??

i noticed a lot of matte paint jobs, must have missed that during car release photos.

no mothers sponsorship in the usa this year. no commercials though

hoping other teams have some sort of system to counter the merc das? or whatever it is called

should be interesting to see some of the battles with so many drivers already signed to other teams

ferrari lmao

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

pc27b wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:Sky obviously think it is worth repeating brundle repeating that alex needs more patience. and then he's now saying afterwards. "I feel really sorry for Alex"

Think before speaking a bit more then. DC and Ben Edwards are so much better than Brundle with crofty as commentators...

they were laughably bad yesterday. after every car dropped out, they would act like it was surprising a car had reliability problems and compare it to other years at this track-when it was a middle of the season race-and there was little reliability issues. horner seemed stumped when they brought it up to them. "uh, this is the first race of the season, even if it is july" ??

i noticed a lot of matte paint jobs, must have missed that during car release photos.

no mothers sponsorship in the usa this year. no commercials though

hoping other teams have some sort of system to counter the merc das? or whatever it is called

should be interesting to see some of the battles with so many drivers already signed to other teams

ferrari lmao
You can tell that Horner often regrets having to speak to sky. He honestly sounds to have a lot more enthusiasm when speaking to channel 4. I think he rightly dislikes Crofty like virtually all of us do. I can't remember what it was but when Crofty started suggesting nonsense to him during a race, Horner just interrupted and said stick to commentating. Even if that is literally what it does, it implies that he's bad with so many of the things he comes up with. He seriously needs replacing.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/

Albon would still have retired so he wouldn't have won but I agree with the point on Merc strategy. They seem very cumbersome in dynamic situations and I believe you're right they won't do the best thing for 1 car if it isn't better for both. Working that out is bound to waste time.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pc27b wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:Sky obviously think it is worth repeating brundle repeating that alex needs more patience. and then he's now saying afterwards. "I feel really sorry for Alex"

Think before speaking a bit more then. DC and Ben Edwards are so much better than Brundle with crofty as commentators...

they were laughably bad yesterday. after every car dropped out, they would act like it was surprising a car had reliability problems and compare it to other years at this track-when it was a middle of the season race-and there was little reliability issues. horner seemed stumped when they brought it up to them. "uh, this is the first race of the season, even if it is july" ??

i noticed a lot of matte paint jobs, must have missed that during car release photos.

no mothers sponsorship in the usa this year. no commercials though

hoping other teams have some sort of system to counter the merc das? or whatever it is called

should be interesting to see some of the battles with so many drivers already signed to other teams

ferrari lmao
You can tell that Horner often regrets having to speak to sky. He honestly sounds to have a lot more enthusiasm when speaking to channel 4. I think he rightly dislikes Crofty like virtually all of us do. I can't remember what it was but when Crofty started suggesting nonsense to him during a race, Horner just interrupted and said stick to commentating. Even if that is literally what it does, it implies that he's bad with so many of the things he comes up with. He seriously needs replacing.
Given Horner's relationship with webber but especially Coulthard it's not really a fair comparison.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

mikeyg123 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/

Albon would still have retired so he wouldn't have won but I agree with the point on Merc strategy. They seem very cumbersome in dynamic situations and I believe you're right they won't do the best thing for 1 car if it isn't better for both. Working that out is bound to waste time.
Completely forgot and I just presumed Albon retired due to the collision. He would have won though without car troubles and that's because Mercedes are obsessed with keeping the strategy the same for both cars. Redbull would have won with a slower driver/car combo but better strategy.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pc27b wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:Sky obviously think it is worth repeating brundle repeating that alex needs more patience. and then he's now saying afterwards. "I feel really sorry for Alex"

Think before speaking a bit more then. DC and Ben Edwards are so much better than Brundle with crofty as commentators...

they were laughably bad yesterday. after every car dropped out, they would act like it was surprising a car had reliability problems and compare it to other years at this track-when it was a middle of the season race-and there was little reliability issues. horner seemed stumped when they brought it up to them. "uh, this is the first race of the season, even if it is july" ??

i noticed a lot of matte paint jobs, must have missed that during car release photos.

no mothers sponsorship in the usa this year. no commercials though

hoping other teams have some sort of system to counter the merc das? or whatever it is called

should be interesting to see some of the battles with so many drivers already signed to other teams

ferrari lmao
You can tell that Horner often regrets having to speak to sky. He honestly sounds to have a lot more enthusiasm when speaking to channel 4. I think he rightly dislikes Crofty like virtually all of us do. I can't remember what it was but when Crofty started suggesting nonsense to him during a race, Horner just interrupted and said stick to commentating. Even if that is literally what it does, it implies that he's bad with so many of the things he comes up with. He seriously needs replacing.
Given Horner's relationship with webber but especially Coulthard it's not really a fair comparison.
It has been the case for years and not just when he speaks to Coulthard. There were plenty of occasions when he would speak to Channel 4 when they did practice sessions live a few years back with Edwards and Chandhok. Weather Coulthard or webber is there or not, Horner clearly prefers speaking to them than Sky.

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tootsie323
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by tootsie323 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
Albon would still have retired so he wouldn't have won but I agree with the point on Merc strategy. They seem very cumbersome in dynamic situations and I believe you're right they won't do the best thing for 1 car if it isn't better for both. Working that out is bound to waste time.
Completely forgot and I just presumed Albon retired due to the collision. He would have won though without car troubles and that's because Mercedes are obsessed with keeping the strategy the same for both cars. Redbull would have won with a slower driver/car combo but better strategy.
Did the gravel excursion, due to the collision, not cause the subsequent retirement? Horner was not sure himself ("... We don’t know if that’s a result of the knock that he had or the trip through the gravel. We turned the engine off as a precaution...", [Source:F1]), so there is a possibility that Albon could have won that race.
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F1 MERCENARY
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Channel 4 seem very against the penalty for Hamilton. They didn't even change their view on the replay. I'm with sky on this one once they watched the replays.

Channel 4 seem to be blaming Albon more than Hamilton which I think is ridiculous.
Channel 4 was correct then because Albon turned in when he had more room.

Interesting how all Drivers, including Albon drove all the way out over the white line and over the rumble strips, yet in this instance, it's being claimed that Hamilton left him no room,
when in fact he left more than a car's width to the edge of the track PLUS all the real estate everyone had been driving on all race long, and during qualifying, and free practices 1, 2 AND 3.

[img]Lewis%20did%20push%20him%20out%20wide%20but%20did%20in%20fact%20leave%20MORE%20than%20a%20car's%20width.[/img]
https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/07/05 ... -to-albon/

That said, this should have been called a racing incident and nothing more, and Helmut Marko should really shut his mouth because if his opinion that such an incident is worthy of disqualifying a driver from earning any points, His golden boy Verstappen will be out of the points far more often, if and when the stewards grow the cojones to actually punish him accordingly. Prime example, When Verstappen punted Leclerc off in a very egregious manner at this very track last year…

https://youtu.be/cV0G1zN8kJU?t=86
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA

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F1 MERCENARY
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

F1_Ernie wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15036 ... 1591901012

Hamilton was going to go longer and put on the medium tyres but the SC ruined it, I really think it could have worked aswell.
Mercedes screwed up when they didn't allow Hamilton past Bottas when he was CLEARLY the faster of the two.
Had they done so, Hamilton would have been in the lead much earlier. Just too much hesitation and indecision from the control room in order to ensure no one feels there is favoritism.
I think it's always a mistake not to let the faster driver through because you never know what can happen. If you have an opportunity to let one of your drivers through and sail off into
clear track and let the slower driver find the speed to keep up.
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15036 ... 1591901012

Hamilton was going to go longer and put on the medium tyres but the SC ruined it, I really think it could have worked aswell.
Mercedes screwed up when they didn't allow Hamilton past Bottas when he was CLEARLY the faster of the two.
Had they done so, Hamilton would have been in the lead much earlier. Just too much hesitation and indecision from the control room in order to ensure no one feels there is favoritism.
I think it's always a mistake not to let the faster driver through because you never know what can happen. If you have an opportunity to let one of your drivers through and sail off into
clear track and let the slower driver find the speed to keep up.
Now this is me guessing as well as everyone else that think they know better than mercedes, but Mercedes said that Hamilton's issues were critical, specifically more so after the contact with Albon. I personally think Hamilton was going faster than he should have been based on what Mercedes were telling him, so in this instance, I'm not sure if he should have gone even faster to pull away from Bottas. Yes, neither retired, but there was clearly a problem with both cars and I feel both Bottas and Hamilton had a possibility of wrecking their car if they didn't listen. Both ignored the advice a bit too much IMO.

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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/ham ... nt-4466596

Now that is interesting and probably unexpected by many.

Hamilton has the most penalty points of any driver on the grid. And given all the critisism drivers such as Grosjean get, well look - he has none. Grosjean may have looked a mess this race but I think people rate him low based on 2018 and the odd few silly mistakes in practice last year. During the races, he had such a lack of track time and such bad luck he couldn't really prove much, but he was nowhere near as bad as people think. It seems to be the more respected drivers collecting the penalty points.

I know this doesn't reflect their performance, but still, this is not a good a very good reflection on Hamilton. 7 penalty points is quite a lot given large gap between seasons.

Vettel got 7 over last season as a whole and that has only been beaten twice by Maldonado and Verstappen each with 8 in 2015.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/ham ... nt-4466596

Now that is interesting and probably unexpected by many.

Hamilton has the most penalty points of any driver on the grid. And given all the critisism drivers such as Grosjean get, well look - he has none. Grosjean may have looked a mess this race but I think people rate him low based on 2018 and the odd few silly mistakes in practice last year. During the races, he had such a lack of track time and such bad luck he couldn't really prove much, but he was nowhere near as bad as people think. It seems to be the more respected drivers collecting the penalty points.

I know this doesn't reflect their performance, but still, this is not a good a very good reflection on Hamilton. 7 penalty points is quite a lot given large gap between seasons.

Vettel got 7 over last season as a whole and that has only been beaten twice by Maldonado and Verstappen each with 8 in 2015.
Come on man those penalty points are given out so arbitrarily that nothing can really be read into them.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15036 ... 1591901012

Hamilton was going to go longer and put on the medium tyres but the SC ruined it, I really think it could have worked aswell.
Mercedes screwed up when they didn't allow Hamilton past Bottas when he was CLEARLY the faster of the two.
Had they done so, Hamilton would have been in the lead much earlier. Just too much hesitation and indecision from the control room in order to ensure no one feels there is favoritism.
I think it's always a mistake not to let the faster driver through because you never know what can happen. If you have an opportunity to let one of your drivers through and sail off into
clear track and let the slower driver find the speed to keep up.
Now this is me guessing as well as everyone else that think they know better than mercedes, but Mercedes said that Hamilton's issues were critical, specifically more so after the contact with Albon. I personally think Hamilton was going faster than he should have been based on what Mercedes were telling him, so in this instance, I'm not sure if he should have gone even faster to pull away from Bottas. Yes, neither retired, but there was clearly a problem with both cars and I feel both Bottas and Hamilton had a possibility of wrecking their6 car if they didn't listen. Both ignored the advice a bit too much IMO.
I've heard Mercedes come over the radio many times in the last few years with apparent problems and they still coast to victory while putting in fastest laps, I dont take them very serious anymore. Wouldn't suprise me if it was a call of the fight message specially as it was the only way Hamilton was going to back off.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/ham ... nt-4466596

Now that is interesting and probably unexpected by many.

Hamilton has the most penalty points of any driver on the grid. And given all the critisism drivers such as Grosjean get, well look - he has none. Grosjean may have looked a mess this race but I think people rate him low based on 2018 and the odd few silly mistakes in practice last year. During the races, he had such a lack of track time and such bad luck he couldn't really prove much, but he was nowhere near as bad as people think. It seems to be the more respected drivers collecting the penalty points.

I know this doesn't reflect their performance, but still, this is not a good a very good reflection on Hamilton. 7 penalty points is quite a lot given large gap between seasons.

Vettel got 7 over last season as a whole and that has only been beaten twice by Maldonado and Verstappen each with 8 in 2015.

:lol: such a naughty driver that Hamilton
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Don't worry, I know in reality his performance is what matters, but that is a very large number of penalty points to have, especially given the gap between seasons.

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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-EOReIyFw&app=desktop

Now, people may have noticed i've been rather against Hamilton, but this is yet another thing that I really question why he wasn't investigated about that somebody linked this clip to. I guess it could potentially be that Bottas was a bit slower than he needed to be, but I really don't think so as hamilton looked to be giving it everything. This was on lap 69. And in the sector with Yellow flags, watching the channel 4 highlights timing screens, Hamilton was 2.4 seconds behind before they came ojt, then a few seconds later, he was at 0.4. Gaining 2 seconds through double waved yellows? If it wasn't for him doing this he won't have been as close to Bottas as he was at the end and almost certainly not in DRS range. Basically, I see this as cheating to try and avoid the penalty effecting him as much - and it very nearly will have only dropped him to 3rd rather than 4th. If Red Bull were paying close attention, they surely will have seen this?

Regarding exceeding what the rules allow (even if many don't agree with them) Hamilton has been pretty poor this weekend even if his pace was mighty.

JN23
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
I agree that its harder when your team is out front but Mercedes have been there for six years, yet they come out with that line every time something goes a bit wrong. You'd think they'd learn.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Don't worry, I know in reality his performance is what matters, but that is a very large number of penalty points to have, especially given the gap between seasons.
I don't think it's a coincidence the two most high profile drivers have the most points.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

JN23 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
I agree that its harder when your team is out front but Mercedes have been there for six years, yet they come out with that line every time something goes a bit wrong. You'd think they'd learn.
It's the obsession with wanting to keep all things equal, yesterday it should have lost Mercedes the race win but Vowles got away with it. I dont know why they couldnt pit one car and not the other then at least your covering off the cars behind. I read even if they did pit both cars a lap later they would have ended up behind Perez but then that wouldn't have been much of a problem.
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WHoff78
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by WHoff78 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
I agree that its harder when your team is out front but Mercedes have been there for six years, yet they come out with that line every time something goes a bit wrong. You'd think they'd learn.
It's the obsession with wanting to keep all things equal, yesterday it should have lost Mercedes the race win but Vowles got away with it. I dont know why they couldnt pit one car and not the other then at least your covering off the cars behind. I read even if they did pit both cars a lap later they would have ended up behind Perez but then that wouldn't have been much of a problem.
The lengths they go to ensure equality between the drivers doesn’t sit right with me either particularly, but even though it certainly can catch them out in the odd race, and cost them the 1-2 at the weekend, it probably also brings huge long term advantages. For one they keep both drivers fairly happy, ultimately which gives them continuity and probably ensures that both keep helping drive the team in the right direction. Plus it keeps both drivers on their toes so that when they do have competition from outside of Mercedes they are about as prepared as they can be for it. It can be frustrating at times but it also works.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

WHoff78 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
JN23 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Albon would have won the race yesterday if it wasn't for the collision with Hamilton. Mercedes have admitted they got it wrong not pitting for softs at the second safety car. I just think they are so obsessed that both cars need to have the exact same strategies it means they need extra time to think things through. I think they would honestly take a 2-3 which would have happened yesterday without the collision and know they have been fair to both drivers rather than pit one car and cover the cars behind. I admit its harder when your the team out in front but sometimes you need to think outside the box as you have more to lose.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/06/mer ... afety-car/
I agree that its harder when your team is out front but Mercedes have been there for six years, yet they come out with that line every time something goes a bit wrong. You'd think they'd learn.
It's the obsession with wanting to keep all things equal, yesterday it should have lost Mercedes the race win but Vowles got away with it. I dont know why they couldnt pit one car and not the other then at least your covering off the cars behind. I read even if they did pit both cars a lap later they would have ended up behind Perez but then that wouldn't have been much of a problem.
The lengths they go to ensure equality between the drivers doesn’t sit right with me either particularly, but even though it certainly can catch them out in the odd race, and cost them the 1-2 at the weekend, it probably also brings huge long term advantages. For one they keep both drivers fairly happy, ultimately which gives them continuity and probably ensures that both keep helping drive the team in the right direction. Plus it keeps both drivers on their toes so that when they do have competition from outside of Mercedes they are about as prepared as they can be for it. It can be frustrating at times but it also works.
I'm not sure it would keep both drivers happy, I wouldn't be happy to know that the race is won after the first couple of corners. Hamilton said after the race he needed a delta of 0.8 to even try an overtake so really you have no chance of an overtake. Most races are 1 stopping so you dont need really have much opportunity with strategy, Mercedes wont allow different tyres or number of stops so the races are kind of set in stone when Mercedes are out in front. Hamilton more often than not had better race pace and tyre wear than Rosberg and Bottas but it must be frustrating not being allowed to do anything with it.
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Apparently Mercedes never had the option of stopping for fresh tyres because the second SC got called as soon as Bottas passed the pit entry and they had 1 second to decide whether to pit Hamilton or not, noted.
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Covalent
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how- ... n=widget-6


Interesting article but I found this part completely astonishing, they don't have access to all the onboards?
"Quite simply, we didn't have onboard footage from Lewis's car," said race director Michael Masi. "And when we were made aware today quite late in the piece by Red Bull that there was a 360 [video], there was some additional new evidence available, is when it came to our attention.

"So we weren't actually aware that that existed, to be quite honest. It's not something that we knew was there. And obviously, we're quite fortunate that a couple of years ago now the right of review was included within the International Sporting Code."

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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Mercedes debrief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHN84chhmg

James Vowels said that Mercedes just had enough time to make the call to pit both cars at the second (?) safety car brought about by Russell retiring. They decided against it because of the worry of Hamilton having to drop back behind Perez/Albon if they didn't pit and due to the issues the cars were suffering, Hamilton might have struggled to get back past or even retired.

They believed Lewis would be able to stay on the podium after the penalty was given but not ahead of Leclerc. The double yellow flags on lap 70 probably cost Hamilton the podium. They also considered swapping the cars on track but decided it wasn't worth it as this can lead to further complications/loss of time.

JN23
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

To add on the debrief - DAS worked as they expected but they're unsure on it's potential when it comes to other circuits.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

JN23 wrote:Mercedes debrief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHN84chhmg

James Vowels said that Mercedes just had enough time to make the call to pit both cars at the second (?) safety car brought about by Russell retiring. They decided against it because of the worry of Hamilton having to drop back behind Perez/Albon if they didn't pit and due to the issues the cars were suffering, Hamilton might have struggled to get back past or even retired.

They believed Lewis would be able to stay on the podium after the penalty was given but not ahead of Leclerc. The double yellow flags on lap 70 probably cost Hamilton the podium. They also considered swapping the cars on track but decided it wasn't worth it as this can lead to further complications/loss of time.
I watched that earlier and to me it just sounds like Mercedes pit both cars or you dont to keep all things equal and my feeling is this will deffiantly lead to delays when you need a quick decision. The only threats was Albon and Perez. Surely they could pit one car to cover of the threat from Albon? Was Mercedes really worried about Perez driving last years Merceces on old tyres?, he would have moved out the way. Could Mercedes have pit the following lap? At least Vowels makes it interesting for Redbull every now and then.
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JN23
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Mercedes debrief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHN84chhmg

James Vowels said that Mercedes just had enough time to make the call to pit both cars at the second (?) safety car brought about by Russell retiring. They decided against it because of the worry of Hamilton having to drop back behind Perez/Albon if they didn't pit and due to the issues the cars were suffering, Hamilton might have struggled to get back past or even retired.

They believed Lewis would be able to stay on the podium after the penalty was given but not ahead of Leclerc. The double yellow flags on lap 70 probably cost Hamilton the podium. They also considered swapping the cars on track but decided it wasn't worth it as this can lead to further complications/loss of time.
I watched that earlier and to me it just sounds like Mercedes pit both cars or you dont to keep all things equal and my feeling is this will deffiantly lead to delays when you need a quick decision. The only threats was Albon and Perez. Surely they could pit one car to cover of the threat from Albon? Was Mercedes really worried about Perez driving last years Merceces on old tyres?, he would have moved out the way. Could Mercedes have pit the following lap? At least Vowels makes it interesting for Redbull every now and then.
To be fair in the video, Vowels says they decide what to do on a SC a couple of laps ahead of time. For example, I think the safety car came out on lap 51 so they'll have known on lap 49 what they were doing. On lap 51 they'd have decided what to do for lap 53. That's what I took from it anyway, so not sure there would have been a delay in the decision making.

For what it's worth, I think they got the decision wrong and should have pitted both cars. As you say, even pitting one would have been worth it.

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

JN23 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
JN23 wrote:Mercedes debrief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHN84chhmg

James Vowels said that Mercedes just had enough time to make the call to pit both cars at the second (?) safety car brought about by Russell retiring. They decided against it because of the worry of Hamilton having to drop back behind Perez/Albon if they didn't pit and due to the issues the cars were suffering, Hamilton might have struggled to get back past or even retired.

They believed Lewis would be able to stay on the podium after the penalty was given but not ahead of Leclerc. The double yellow flags on lap 70 probably cost Hamilton the podium. They also considered swapping the cars on track but decided it wasn't worth it as this can lead to further complications/loss of time.
I watched that earlier and to me it just sounds like Mercedes pit both cars or you dont to keep all things equal and my feeling is this will deffiantly lead to delays when you need a quick decision. The only threats was Albon and Perez. Surely they could pit one car to cover of the threat from Albon? Was Mercedes really worried about Perez driving last years Merceces on old tyres?, he would have moved out the way. Could Mercedes have pit the following lap? At least Vowels makes it interesting for Redbull every now and then.
To be fair in the video, Vowels says they decide what to do on a SC a couple of laps ahead of time. For example, I think the safety car came out on lap 51 so they'll have known on lap 49 what they were doing. On lap 51 they'd have decided what to do for lap 53. That's what I took from it anyway, so not sure there would have been a delay in the decision making.

For what it's worth, I think they got the decision wrong and should have pitted both cars. As you say, even pitting one would have been worth it.
It would have lost them the race without the collision. With wanting to keep all things equal Iust think it clouds there judgement too much, personally I think each driver should be allowed to do whatever strategy they want to do.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

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