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Re: Williams

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:49 am
by pc27b
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:12 pm
pc27b wrote:i made my peace with williams, not being williams anymore a few seasons ago. at the moment, yes williams is still a constructor and run by a williams. i just figured their downward spiral was always going to end this way. someone may purchase them, even keep the name, but it isn't the same to me

from the outside it looks as if toto just made a short term investment. hoping someone offers bigger bucks than he put it. it does seem plenty are interested in taking over the team though
I think that's a little harsh. People act like Williams have been at the back for forever but they were on the podium only a few seasons ago. Outside the big three they are still the most successful team in the Turbo era.
it wasn't meant to be harsh, it is just the way i see it. things change over time, i get it. it's just that williams will always be, frank and patrick head to me.
glad they found a buyer for all the employees sake. i hope they run the team in a way to make them better, not solely as a money making business

Re: Williams

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:38 pm
by Harpo
Beleriand_K wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:58 pm
wrote: For now, they have no reason to change the name (though Dorilton Capital Racing would be a great name, and in accordance with the world of today), but I would be very surprised if it's still called Williams in a next future, whatever they say or sign right now.
I think they will keep the name. Simply because there is no reason not to.

Dorilton Capital isn't a company with the need to promote a soft drink, a watch or a tobacco brand. They are a long term investment company with the intention to make money on established companies.
Dorilton Capital Racing was just a joke...
Dorilton Capital is not a name that needs to be promoted. Good, neither is Williams. Williams will soon be rebranded anything that matters in this world, even Caïman Islands Racing if there are few more pennies to scrape with this name.

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 am
by SteveW
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:29 pm
by Charles LeBrad
SteveW wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 am
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?
My moneys on either
A. Bradley Cooper Enterprises
B. Ben Charles Elton
C. Bank Cash Early

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:05 pm
by Beleriand_K
Charles LeBrad wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:29 pm
SteveW wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 am
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?
My moneys on either
A. Bradley Cooper Enterprises
B. Ben Charles Elton
C. Bank Cash Early
Or maybe:

Beijing Commodity Exchange
Banco Central Equador
Badminton Club Eupen

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:55 pm
by Charles LeBrad
Beleriand_K wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:05 pm
[quote="Charles LeBrad " post_id=822906 time=<a href="tel:1598185740">1598185740</a> user_id=14057]
[quote="SteveW " post_id=822905 time=<a href="tel:1598181314">1598181314</a> user_id=3336]
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?
My moneys on either
A. Bradley Cooper Enterprises
B. Ben Charles Elton
C. Bank Cash Early
[/quote]

Or maybe:

Beijing Commodity Exchange
Banco Central Equador
Badminton Club Eupen
[/quote]

Looks like this goes all the way to the White House... Hertfordshire
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05311410

So it could also be
Bill Clinton Earnings
Bush Clinton Enterprises

We’re through the looking glass people. There’s a chance we may know too much now. Stay safe out there

Re: Williams

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:09 am
by Covalent
SteveW wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 am
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?
It can also mean "Before Common Era", which I suppose would still fit in with the Bernie theory.

Re: Williams

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:39 am
by Option or Prime
SteveW wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:15 am
I can't see it already mentioned anywhere in the thread, but Dorilton are managing the fund for "someone" called BCE limited.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/ ... -what-now/

BCE - Bernard Charles Ecclestone?
According to companies house BCE Ltd in the UK are a dissolved company, so we need to look elsewhere. Separately to that I think Frank and Clare have got out at the right time. Unless you are a motor company I think F1 will decline slowly over the next 10 years as electric takes over but only my personal view. I also think getting crowds back in some countries is going to be hard with Covid.
Much will depend on how the new regs affect racing.

Re: Williams

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:47 pm
by j man
Wonderful. A faceless, soulless private equity firm and an opaque ownership structure. This can only end well...

Re: Williams

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:21 pm
by Remmirath
I'm glad they'll have the money to remain in the sport, but I'm concerned about what the sale will do to the team in the long run. At least it gives Williams a chance, and it's not as though they were having much success in the last year or two.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:42 am
by JN23
Clare Williams will step down after this weekend and the whole family is stepping away from the team and sport.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ms-f1-team

https://twitter.com/williamsracing/stat ... 55648?s=21

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:47 am
by Herb
This is so sad.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:20 pm
by mikeyg123
Very sad .

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:21 pm
by klevispin
Sad, but inevitable.

Curious who the new TP will be that rocks up next weekend...

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:34 pm
by JN23
klevispin wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:21 pm
Sad, but inevitable.

Curious who the new TP will be that rocks up next weekend...
Vettel is after a new job :]

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:36 pm
by Charles LeBrad
klevispin wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:21 pm
Sad, but inevitable.

Curious who the new TP will be that rocks up next weekend...
Mr According to Joe Saward, one name mentioned is James Matthews, aka Mr Pippa Middleton

https://www.joeblogsf1.com/joesaward/id/00800

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:55 pm
by Option or Prime
That's a really interesting article, whoever heard of an investment company paying too much for an enterprise. It begs the question have they bought Williams for another reason that we don't know about?

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
by Harpo
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:39 pm
by mikeyg123
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?
What stinks?

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:07 pm
by pendulumeffect
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:15 am
pendulumeffect wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:21 am
Williams went down the pan when they lost BMW engines. A sale to BMW then would have possibly kept them both in F1.

F1 is all about business now and if you don't have the biggest partners you are going to lose.

At least they have not simply folded but they need better engines, partnerships and sponsors.
Selling to BMW would not have taken Williams in anyway closer to their goals given that their goals are to win as Williams. Given that BMW pulled out only a few years later anyway despite achieving good results I doubt it would have done much for them accept in the very short term.

The only thing selling to BMW would have done is make Frank Williams a bit richer and I'm not sure he really cares if he is worth £100 million or £300 million to be honest.
Well they could have given BMW a large stake in the team in the same way McLaren managed to do with Mercedes. F1 would be much stronger with BMW still in the game. They won races for Williams and Sauber and would still be winning today I believe. I suspect many of BMW's staff ended up at Mercedes or the other engine manufacturers.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
by mikeyg123
I believe BMW were demanding a controlling stake. Even if not i'm not sure why you think they would have stayed involved after 2009 instead of pulling out. They weren't interested in staying with Sauber even as a junior partner or just as an engine suplier.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
by Harpo
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?
What stinks?
Joe Saward is very cautious and doesn't draw any conclusion from his piece of writing... But.
In our current world and time, I don't see any hedge fund based in a tax heaven pouring more money than needed in the bottomless hole that is a hopeless F1 team. As an investment, it looks more like laundering than a business plan.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:25 pm
by Option or Prime
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?
What stinks?
Joe Saward is very cautious and doesn't draw any conclusion from his piece of writing... But.
In our current world and time, I don't see any hedge fund based in a tax heaven pouring more money than needed in the bottomless hole that is a hopeless F1 team. As an investment, it looks more like laundering than a business plan.
You might think that but I'm not sure you want to be saying it.
Perhaps they are buying into the Concord agreement, or other Williams resources.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:30 pm
by mikeyg123
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?
What stinks?
Joe Saward is very cautious and doesn't draw any conclusion from his piece of writing... But.
In our current world and time, I don't see any hedge fund based in a tax heaven pouring more money than needed in the bottomless hole that is a hopeless F1 team. As an investment, it looks more like laundering than a business plan.
I was thinking perhaps with the budget cap coming in and Liberty's reluctance to consider new teams than an F1 entry in itself is highly valuable in a way it hasn't been before.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:36 pm
by Tufty
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:30 pm
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Harpo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:41 pm
Am I the only one who thinks it stinks to high heaven ?
What stinks?
Joe Saward is very cautious and doesn't draw any conclusion from his piece of writing... But.
In our current world and time, I don't see any hedge fund based in a tax heaven pouring more money than needed in the bottomless hole that is a hopeless F1 team. As an investment, it looks more like laundering than a business plan.
I was thinking perhaps with the budget cap coming in and Liberty's reluctance to consider new teams than an F1 entry in itself is highly valuable in a way it hasn't been before.
I said a similar thing elsewhere. With the budget cap coming in, the FIA would obviously want to bring in 3 new teams in an ideal world. And then you hit capacity. It would make sense to wait for that moment and then see who wants to buy a team when there's no other way into the sport. Suddenly Williams' value skyrockets, regardless of its recent results.

Re: Williams

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 pm
by Asphalt_World
It's really interesting how we're told F1 has gone from strength to strength over the past 30 years or so. All this money, TV coverage, facilities etc.

In fact, the past 30 years or so has seen historic team after historic team sell out to unknown companies from around the world.

This is a truly sad day for the sport.

Re: Williams

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:07 am
by pendulumeffect
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
I believe BMW were demanding a controlling stake. Even if not i'm not sure why you think they would have stayed involved after 2009 instead of pulling out. They weren't interested in staying with Sauber even as a junior partner or just as an engine suplier.
Well things may have happened very differently, we will never know. Practically nobody predicted Mercedes would buy out Brawn (or what was really Honda / BAR) and go on to such success (except maybe Lewis Hamilton).

Had Williams known the team would only score one more win for the next 16 years and then side to the back of the grid maybe he would have accepted BMW's offer and maybe BMW would have been more reluctant to pull out if they were contractually obliged or closer to the WDC/WCC.

I think Frank's commitment to giving his daughter a chance to carry the team is commendable but the fact is they were lacking the right engine, aero staff, sponsors and drivers. The ingredients for success just were never there like they were in the 80s-90s.

Re: Williams

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:39 am
by Charles LeBrad
pendulumeffect wrote:
Had Williams known the team would only score one more win for the next 16 years and then side to the back of the grid maybe he would have accepted BMW's offer and maybe BMW would have been more reluctant to pull out if they were contractually obliged or closer to the WDC/WCC
Sad to think the winningest Williams driver from 2010 - Now is Pastor

Re: Williams

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:29 am
by mikeyg123
pendulumeffect wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:07 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm
I believe BMW were demanding a controlling stake. Even if not i'm not sure why you think they would have stayed involved after 2009 instead of pulling out. They weren't interested in staying with Sauber even as a junior partner or just as an engine suplier.
Well things may have happened very differently, we will never know. Practically nobody predicted Mercedes would buy out Brawn (or what was really Honda / BAR) and go on to such success (except maybe Lewis Hamilton).

Had Williams known the team would only score one more win for the next 16 years and then side to the back of the grid maybe he would have accepted BMW's offer and maybe BMW would have been more reluctant to pull out if they were contractually obliged or closer to the WDC/WCC.

I think Frank's commitment to giving his daughter a chance to carry the team is commendable but the fact is they were lacking the right engine, aero staff, sponsors and drivers. The ingredients for success just were never there like they were in the 80s-90s.
I don't see it I'm afraid. I see it as far more likely BMW pull out after 2009 (why would they be any more obliged to continue) and Frank probably buys back in the way Peter Sauber did. All that does is help BMW in the short term as they may have achieved more success. It does nothing for Williams who's goal was to be an autonomous team. Being controlled by BMW doesn't help them achieve that.

Re: Williams

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:05 pm
by tim3003
Asphalt_World wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 pm
It's really interesting how we're told F1 has gone from strength to strength over the past 30 years or so. All this money, TV coverage, facilities etc.

In fact, the past 30 years or so has seen historic team after historic team sell out to unknown companies from around the world.

This is a truly sad day for the sport.
Yes, the last of the 'garagiste's as Enzo Ferrari used to call them - the F1 fanatics who created their own teams and ran them for love not money. I suppose the previous last one to go was Sauber, then Jordan.

It shows that F1 is no longer the place for privateers, but only for big business interests. Let's face it, the road car industry has gone the same way too, with all the small specialists either going under or being eaten up. The cause must be technology improvements and the constant ramping up of the budget you need to compete with the big boys. The 2022 budget limiting rules will come too late to save the old teams, but maybe we can hope that costs will at least be brought under control in time to keep F1 alive as a multi-team sport.

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:47 pm
by Jezza13
Well their last race is done & for me, it's just a terribly, terribly sad day.
I think back over 35 yrs of watching this sport & Franks team has been a huge part of forming my love for the sport & now they're gone.

Today, Ferrari aside, the last great name, the last icon of this sport walked away. This sport is now the domain of the manufacturers & multinational cooperations. It's now the exclusive playground for players who have business running through their veins, not racing. It now belongs to those whose desire to participate in the sport will be driven by the bottom line in the accounts books & not by their heart.

The true privateer, the garagista, is as of today, just a memory, & it saddens me deeply. Very deeply.

F1 for me will now seem a little bit colder. A little less passionate. A little less emotional. For me it just seems like another nail in the F1 coffin. I could be wrong, I hope I am, but it just feels that way.

This sport was built by the privateer. Chapman, Dennis, Jordan, Sauber, Minardi, Brabham, Oliver. All now just names in F1 history books & on trophies, & now, the last great name is gone. Yes the name will remain, for the time being, but never again will it be Williams I knew & loved.

Re: Williams

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:25 pm
by Asphalt_World

Re: Williams

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:59 pm
by SteveW
Yes, a very sad day for me too yesterday.

Williams was the team that got me hooked on F1 in the mid 80s. I've supported them ever since. I may not have always agreed with Frank's way of running the team, especially the treatment of some drivers over the years - but I always stayed loyal to the team as a supporter.

I agree with others that for me now, F1 won't ever feel the same again. The true racers that had real passion for the sport have slowly been forced out of the sport that they loved and helped to shape into the massive success it has now become.

I don't really know what to do now. I know that probably sounds stupid to some - but I want to keep supporting the team I have over the last 30 plus years - but it just doesn't feel the same already, and I'm sure it's going to change even more now the Williams family aren't directly involved any more :(