Ferrari and Indy Car 2022 ?

[pc27b]

https://racer.com/2020/05/15/ferrari-ev ... -confirms/

it would be great if they became an engine supplier. before anyone freaks out, it would be in addition to F1

penske owning the series and the speedway is fantastic. no telling how many manufacturers he is talking to

[Charles LeBrad]

Not surprised. I called this would happen when they started talking about bringing in cost caps. It’s a good way to keep engineers and key staff and still be within the F1 cap

[Asphalt_World]

Yes, I can see it happen, but I'd prefer and out and out attempt at the top level of Endurance racing.

[jimclark]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

[jimclark]

I'd prefer and out and out attempt at the top level of Endurance racing.

Agreed. 'Been nearly half a century. ('Don't believe either will happen tho')

[jimmyj]

Yes please!!!!

[pokerman]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

I thought I heard that Ferrari would build their own car?

[Flash2k11]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

I thought I heard that Ferrari would build their own car?

They aren't allowed to right now, and in the current climate, I can't imagine Indy fancy introducing a second chassis builder into the mix.... even if it is such a famous name.

[Harpo]

I'd prefer and out and out attempt at the top level of Endurance racing.

Agreed. 'Been nearly half a century. ('Don't believe either will happen tho')

It was may be not "top level" endurance racing but it won the Sebring 12 hours, and a bunch of other endurance races mid '90s (and IMSA championships).
The last sport car racing Ferrari, the 333 SP : a beauty, and a winning car. And it was already a Dallara/Ferrari cooperation (+ Michelotto + Southgate).

[jimclark]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

I thought I heard that Ferrari would build their own car?

Either you "heard" wrong or someone espoused wrongly. IndyCar is a one make (Dallara DW12 the past 9 years), two (Chevrolet, Honda) engine spec/kit car series. 'Why I posteed the above. 'Not a very enjoyable series for me....I need variety/technology or I get bored. A wonderfully "choreographed" show.....

[Tufty]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

I thought I heard that Ferrari would build their own car?

Either you "heard" wrong or someone espoused wrongly. IndyCar is a one make (Dallara DW12 the past 12 years), two (Chevrolet, Honda) engine spec/kit car series. 'Why I posteed the above. 'Not a very enjoyable series for me....I need variety/technology or I get bored. A wonderfully "choreographed" show.....

I'm starting to thing there's no motorsport you actually like, you just want to wind us all up.

[jimclark]

You're entitled to your opinion, of course.You're just mistaken.

I've a passion (dwindling) for auto racing. If not, I wouldn't have been following it for 60 years now, and wouldn't have participated in it.

I just don't care for the dumbing down of it to put on a "show".

[jimclark]

I'd prefer and out and out attempt at the top level of Endurance racing.

Agreed. 'Been nearly half a century. ('Don't believe either will happen tho')

It was may be not "top level" endurance racing but it won the Sebring 12 hours, and a bunch of other endurance races mid '90s (and IMSA championships).
The last sport car racing Ferrari, the 333 SP : a beauty, and a winning car. And it was already a Dallara/Ferrari cooperation (+ Michelotto + Southgate).

E for effort, but no cigar.....
We're talking about a Ferrari works effort in sportscar racing (know thy history. ) not just it's cars (the licensed for constructing Dallaras were just designed by Ferrari).
Know thy history. Ferrari itself.....SpA Ferrari SEFAC (Scuderia Enzo Ferrari Automobili Corsa was used for the racing) as it were.....has not campaigned a car in the WSC (or whatever variation of sports car racing since), be it top level or lesser, since the 312PB in the 1973 season. The 333s were all customer cars and customer run, none were "works" run.
After the initial few Ferrari built cars......development? That was left to the privateers, down to the final, Doran Racing developed, Judd powered ones.

An excerpt from a condensed history, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ia_Ferrari :

"The 1970s were the last decade Ferrari entered as a works effort in sports car racing. After an uninspired performance in the 1973 F1 World Championship, Enzo Ferrari stopped all development of sports cars in prototype and GT racing at the end of the year, in order to concentrate on Formula One."

[jimclark]

The last sport car racing Ferrari, the 333 SP : a beauty, and a winning car. And it was already a Dallara/Ferrari cooperation (+ Michelotto + Southgate).

The Scandia 333SP, 2nd place, '97 D-24 car...a beauty? Baah.

Rolex 24 at Daytona 2.2.1997

24 h Daytona 1.round


Race: * 690 laps = 3953,192 km AVG: 164,623 km/h

Pos. NO Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/Retired Group Practice

Classified:

1. 20 James Weaver / GB Riley & Scott Mk III Fo 001 Dyson Racing 690 24:00:48,691 1. WSC 5. 1:43,795
Butch Leitzinger / USA
Rob Dyson / USA
Andy Wallace / GB
John Paul, Jr. / USA
Elliot Forbes-Robinson / USA
2. 3 Andy Evans / USA Ferrari 333 SP 003 Team Scandia 689 24:01:03,178 2. WSC 1. 1:40,456
Fermin Velez / E
Rob Morgan / USA
Charles Morgan / USA
3. 4 Eduardo Dibos / PE Riley & Scott Mk III Oldsmo Dibos Racing 672 3. WSC 10. 1:45,453
Jim Pace / USA
Barry Waddell / USA
Wayne Taylor / ZA


Now.....the SEFAC 330P4 (chassis 856), coincidentally also 2nd 30 years earlier....that's a beauty....and not a Dallara run by a privateer.
(BTW, 856 finished 3rd at Le Mans and won Monza that year, also, under SEFAC's direction)



24 h Daytona 5.2.1967

24 h Daytona 1.round

Practiced: 62 (P+2.0 - 14, P2.0 - 9, S+2.0 - 5, S2.0 - 2, GT+2.0 - 10, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 10, T+2.0 - 10)
Started: 59 (P+2.0 - 14, P2.0 - 9, S+2.0 - 5, S2.0 - 1, GT+2.0 - 10, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 9, T+2.0 - 9)
Classified: 22 (P+2.0 - 4, P2.0 - 2, S+2.0 - 3, S2.0 - 0, GT+2.0 - 2, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 5, T+2.0 - 5)

Race: 6,132 km * 666 laps = 4083,646 km AVG: 170,088 km/h

FL: Phil Hill 15 Chaparral 2F Chevrolet 1:55,690 190,8006 km/h

Pos. NO Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Group Practice

Classified:

1. 23 Lorenzo Bandini / I Ferrari 330P4 Spyder 0846 SpA Ferrari SEFAC 666 24:00:32,000 1. P+2.0 4. 1:55,600
Chris Amon / NZ
2. 24 Mike Parkes / GB Ferrari 330P4 Coupé 0856 SpA Ferrari SEFAC 663 2. P+2.0 6. 1:56,400
Ludovico Scarfiotti / I
3. 26 Pedro Rodriguez / MEX Ferrari 330P3/4 Coupé 0844 North American Racing Team 637 3. P+2.0 3. 1:55,400
Jean Guichet / F

[jono794]

Aaaaaahhhh how history repeats itself. At least this time Ferrari doesn't have to waste the time and expense in building a FIA threatening car, it can just buy a DW12 off the shelf.


The previous scare tactic, the CART F-637.....

"In the mid-eighties Ferrari team founder Enzo Ferrari famously threatened to enter IndyCar racing – then run by CART – in a dispute over the future Formula 1 rules. The team built a car compliant with the regulations, the 637, but it never raced."

I thought I heard that Ferrari would build their own car?

Either you "heard" wrong or someone espoused wrongly. IndyCar is a one make (Dallara DW12 the past 12 years), two (Chevrolet, Honda) engine spec/kit car series. 'Why I posteed the above. 'Not a very enjoyable series for me....I need variety/technology or I get bored. A wonderfully "choreographed" show.....

Are you claiming modern Indycar racing is fixed?

[jimclark]

No. I am not claiming that at all. If I were, i would just have stated that it is.
Just dumbed down so they have to be close......a show. Pick a number and spin the wheel.

[jono794]

No. I am not claiming that at all. If I were, i would just have stated that it is.
Just dumbed down so they have to be close......a show. Pick a number and spin the wheel.

So you're claiming the race orders are chosen at random? I'm confused. You seem to be claiming that Indycar is not a legitimate motorsport but don't have the intestinal fortitude to come out and say it. So what are you saying?

[hairy_scotsman]

The talk of Ferrari running in IndyCar with their own chassis comes from Mario courting them to the series recently, as a constructor.

[jimclark]

The talk of Ferrari running in IndyCar with their own chassis comes from Mario courting them to the series recently, as a constructor.

I haven't been following the news as closely as I used to. When did Mario acquire the authority to change the rules? Did Rogere appoint him the "Regulations Czar"???
From two-seater spinner (https://motorsports.nbcsports.com/2019/ ... -at-texas/) to IndyCar rulesmaker in one easy step, eh?
Ala govt. agencies, screw up, get promoted?

edit: You learn something new every day. Like from the above article. I was taught, and have always taken to the bank, that the CoG is a point ("the point at which the entire weight of a body may be thought of as centered"). Apparently not....."The “Two-Seater” has a longer center of gravity..."
I wonder if they actually meant "wheelbase"???

[jimclark]

No. I am not claiming that at all. If I were, i would just have stated that it is.
Just dumbed down so they have to be close......a show. Pick a number and spin the wheel.

So you're claiming the race orders are chosen at random? I'm confused. You seem to be claiming that Indycar is not a legitimate motorsport but don't have the intestinal fortitude to come out and say it. So what are you saying?

To save those that already know my position, I am PM ing you.

[Harpo]

The last sport car racing Ferrari, the 333 SP : a beauty, and a winning car. And it was already a Dallara/Ferrari cooperation (+ Michelotto + Southgate).

The Scandia 333SP, 2nd place, '97 D-24 car...a beauty? Baah.

Rolex 24 at Daytona 2.2.1997

24 h Daytona 1.round


Race: * 690 laps = 3953,192 km AVG: 164,623 km/h

Pos. NO Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/Retired Group Practice

Classified:

1. 20 James Weaver / GB Riley & Scott Mk III Fo 001 Dyson Racing 690 24:00:48,691 1. WSC 5. 1:43,795
Butch Leitzinger / USA
Rob Dyson / USA
Andy Wallace / GB
John Paul, Jr. / USA
Elliot Forbes-Robinson / USA
2. 3 Andy Evans / USA Ferrari 333 SP 003 Team Scandia 689 24:01:03,178 2. WSC 1. 1:40,456
Fermin Velez / E
Rob Morgan / USA
Charles Morgan / USA
3. 4 Eduardo Dibos / PE Riley & Scott Mk III Oldsmo Dibos Racing 672 3. WSC 10. 1:45,453
Jim Pace / USA
Barry Waddell / USA
Wayne Taylor / ZA


Now.....the SEFAC 330P4 (chassis 856), coincidentally also 2nd 30 years earlier....that's a beauty....and not a Dallara run by a privateer.
(BTW, 856 finished 3rd at Le Mans and won Monza that year, also, under SEFAC's direction)



24 h Daytona 5.2.1967

24 h Daytona 1.round

Practiced: 62 (P+2.0 - 14, P2.0 - 9, S+2.0 - 5, S2.0 - 2, GT+2.0 - 10, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 10, T+2.0 - 10)
Started: 59 (P+2.0 - 14, P2.0 - 9, S+2.0 - 5, S2.0 - 1, GT+2.0 - 10, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 9, T+2.0 - 9)
Classified: 22 (P+2.0 - 4, P2.0 - 2, S+2.0 - 3, S2.0 - 0, GT+2.0 - 2, GT2.0 - 3, T+2.0 - 5, T+2.0 - 5)

Race: 6,132 km * 666 laps = 4083,646 km AVG: 170,088 km/h

FL: Phil Hill 15 Chaparral 2F Chevrolet 1:55,690 190,8006 km/h

Pos. NO Driver / Nationality Car Entrant Laps Time/retired Group Practice

Classified:

1. 23 Lorenzo Bandini / I Ferrari 330P4 Spyder 0846 SpA Ferrari SEFAC 666 24:00:32,000 1. P+2.0 4. 1:55,600
Chris Amon / NZ
2. 24 Mike Parkes / GB Ferrari 330P4 Coupé 0856 SpA Ferrari SEFAC 663 2. P+2.0 6. 1:56,400
Ludovico Scarfiotti / I
3. 26 Pedro Rodriguez / MEX Ferrari 330P3/4 Coupé 0844 North American Racing Team 637 3. P+2.0 3. 1:55,400
Jean Guichet / F

I'm not as active on Planet F1 as I used to be years ago, but, as you registered in 2002 you could have stumbled against some of my posts that would have spared you such an effort. (I'm not that full of myself to think you should remember them, even read them, so you're forgiven...).

You would have noticed, among other personal obsessions, that :
- I consider the 330 P4 as the most beautiful racing car ever.
- I often repeat that what hooked me to motor racing was the great endurance racing of the '60s (I was born before yesterday...). You don't need to lecture me.

That said, yes, compared to today shark-fined endurance tractors, the 333 SP is a beauty.

[Asphalt_World]

The 333sp is possibly my favourite facing Ferrari ever made. As for the sound, we'll quite possibly the best sounding too, certainly out of the past 30 years or so. I admit that in very different ways, Ferrari V12's of the 50's and 60's sounded incredible.

[jimclark]

The 333sp is possibly my favourite facing Ferrari ever made. As for the sound, we'll quite possibly the best sounding too, certainly out of the past 30 years or so. I admit that in very different ways, Ferrari V12's of the 50's and 60's sounded incredible.

A slight correction is in order.....the addition of Dallara. As in....
"The 333sp is possibly my favourite facing Ferrari Dallara ever made."

[Asphalt_World]

The 333sp is possibly my favourite facing Ferrari ever made. As for the sound, we'll quite possibly the best sounding too, certainly out of the past 30 years or so. I admit that in very different ways, Ferrari V12's of the 50's and 60's sounded incredible.

A slight correction is in order.....the addition of Dallara. As in....
"The 333sp is possibly my favourite facing Ferrari Dallara ever made."

Jeez, sometimes it's simply not worth saying anything on here. I'm guessing the fact the engine and chassis were Ferrari is enough for me, but I know it won't be for you. Enjoy yourself on my behalf if you will.

I'm guessing the Dino 246GT can't be anyone's favourite Ferrari road car either.

[P-F1 Mod]

Can we bring this back to Indycar now please?

[jimclark]

Ooopppsss. Got away on us, for sure. Hadda be the "Ferrari and Indy Car..."
Then again, how much is there to say about a Ferrari in IndyCar when under the present rules, it can'r be so....?

[pc27b]

i'm not sure if there are rules in indy car forbidding anyone from building a chassis to the dallara specs ? nothing in the rules would stop them from building a power unit for 2022.
sure ferrari says this isn't just another threat to F1, but i don't think anyone believes that. penske has contacts across the globe, it wouldn't surprise me to hear he has made a call to italy.

i would prefer no ferrari team in indy car, if they, or mclaren, want to build an power unit for indy car...great.

[Paolo_Lasardi]

If Ferrari starts an arms' race with big budgets in IndyCar, the grid numbers will tumble quickly. The economy of that series is rather fragile ...

[Tufty]

If Ferrari starts an arms' race with big budgets in IndyCar, the grid numbers will tumble quickly. The economy of that series is rather fragile ...

I think if that arms race were to happen, Roger would quickly bring in a cost cap on the engines (if there isn't one already?) to save the smaller teams.

Although I have to say, the idea of a McLaren-Ferrari IndyCar project is making me laugh.