Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

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Vettel: What Next?

Retire immediately
8
22%
See out whatever exists of the 2020 season then retire
7
19%
Go to a tier-2 team (McLaren etc)
7
19%
Race in another series
4
11%
Race his guts out in 2020 to raise his stock and then see how he feels
11
30%
 
Total votes: 37

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DOLOMITE
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Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by DOLOMITE »

just for fun but what do you think his best course of action would be?
Happy to add other (sensible) suggestions to Poll
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Siao7
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Siao7 »

I'd have voted for the last one, but I'm afraid it is too late to try and reverse his Ferrari image.

That said, I do not want to see him retiring at age 32, so I voted that he can go to Macca or something. Imagine if he actually does well there (he still is a valuable driver if nothing else) and helps them build something good. It would be a perfect way to then exit the sport with his head high, rather than retiring now as a Ferrari reject.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Personally, I hope he stays. I don't think we have a very strong field of drivers as it is right now and very few with any kind of proven success. We don't need to lose one of our best. He's only 32 so should have a few good years left.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

I hope he races his guts out at any team he ends up on and his stock will once again rise. He's a special driver and would be an asset for ANY team, even Ferrari. He's extremely smart in the car but made unfortunate mistakes out of frustration and desperation and the desire to be first. These guys drive on the limit and when that's not enough they push just that much harder and sometimes they get away with it, sometimes not, but at as long as a driver is looking to push those limits, I'm happy with it.

He places so much pressure on himself and that's a quality every racer should have.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Asphalt_World »

Whilst Mclaren aren't at the front, I thought they have made significant progress recently and who know, may be back fighting for some regular podiums. With all of this disruption and upcoming new regs, there's a chance for some shocks in the sport.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Asphalt_World »

BBC reporting a few minutes ago that it will be Sainz to Ferrari and Ricciardo to McLaren.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

If I were advising Vettel, I would've said to go to McLaren. Sign a two year contract, accepting 2021 would be a transitional year but then hoping to be at the front for 2022. If it works out, fantastic, you're fighting for the WDC and rebuilding your reputation. If McLaren can't make it to the front for 2022 then you walk away at the end of your contract, probably £10m or so better off.

If I were Vettel, I don't know, I'd probably retire. I'd be asking myself why, when I've a young family and I've earned so much money to this point, would I keep risking my health when I won't even have a car that can fight for wins. And it's a fair question. He's achieved more than 99.9% of those in F1's history did. Why not walk away now? Maybe do what Rosberg has done and get into media (he'd be great at it) or driver management, or even start working towards something in terms of team management. Plenty to do without needing to race.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Perhaps it is looking a possibility that Vettel could be shoved out of F1. If Sainz does indeed go to Ferrari, and Ricciardo replaces him McLaren, then Vettel's only options for an upper team will likely be Renault. Brundle could be right in saying that Alonso or Vettel will sign for Renault, but I would anticipate Alonso will get first choice.

At this point attention would turn towards Liberty. How much of an impact would a four-time WDC leaving the sport have on F1's marketability? What would that say to casual fans that drivers of such calibre aren't given a sniff of an opportunity racing at the front? At this point Toto Wolff looks at his phone and receives a call from a Mr Bernie Ecclestone...
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Sainz to Ferrari (Leclerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to McLaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Alonso to Renault (Alonso / Ocon)
Bottas to Racing.AstonMartin (Bottas / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Hamilton / Vettel)

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Sainz to Ferrari (Leclerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to McLaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Alonso to Renault (Alonso / Ocon)
Bottas to Racing.AstonMartin (Bottas / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Hamilton / Vettel)
Snap!

Apart from Bottas. Stroll will keep his seat as long as his father continues to channel his fortune into Aston Martin.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Banana Man »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Sainz to Ferrari (Leclerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to McLaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Alonso to Renault (Alonso / Ocon)
Bottas to Racing.AstonMartin (Bottas / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Hamilton / Vettel)
I can't see Vettel at Merc, as much as I'd love to see that line-up. I think we're more likely to see Hulk back at Renault and no Vettel or Alonso on the grid next year. Maybe George to replace Bottas at Merc.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

Hmm, how do we solve a problem like Vettel? I've been wondering about him since this this announcement, and I wonder if he can be compared to Paul Tracy. A superior Paul Tracy FWIW.

Paul was a very aggressive driver in CART, but he responded to hugs. When he was in teams where he was under pressure to perform, or didn't get the level of respect he wanted, the aggression and unforced errors tended to be higher. When he switched to Team Green, he got more support from the team, and the results came. He was a completely different driver.

Im wondering if thats the case with Seb. He got more love and support at Red Bull, which allowed him to do his thing, and he was successful. Ferrari don't strike me as a team that would provide the same level of support to their drivers as Red Bull do, which could explain the unforced errors.

Maybe it would be in his best interest/wellbeing to try and get back into Red Bull? It's interesting. The alternative thought of mine is that maybe he's overrated and a flat track bully. He needs the car/environment to be A+ in order for him to thrive. Once something's out of whack or not quite right, the errors kick in.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Charles LeBrad »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Sainz to Ferrari (Leclerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to McLaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Alonso to Renault (Alonso / Ocon)
Bottas to Racing.AstonMartin (Bottas / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Hamilton / Vettel)
Close to my prediction
Sainz to Ferrari (LeClerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to Mclaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Gasly to Renault (Gasly / Ocon)
New blood at Red Bull (Kvyat / Rookie)
Hamilton to follow Toto to Aston Martin (Hamilton / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Vettel / Bottas)

Goes against my previous post I know, but Im sticking to it. We'll see the #1 English driver in an English team square off against the #1 German driver in a German team. Im banking on Lewis feeling he's achieved all he can at Merc, and is appealed by joining Aston and building them up with Toto.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by yodasarmpit »

Vettel has no real options, it’s now just a downward spiral. Just retire - 4 world championships, nothing more to prove and try and forget the last couple of years.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Badgeronimous »

Charles LeBrad wrote:Hmm, how do we solve a problem like Vettel? I've been wondering about him since this this announcement, and I wonder if he can be compared to Paul Tracy. A superior Paul Tracy FWIW.

Paul was a very aggressive driver in CART, but he responded to hugs. When he was in teams where he was under pressure to perform, or didn't get the level of respect he wanted, the aggression and unforced errors tended to be higher. When he switched to Team Green, he got more support from the team, and the results came. He was a completely different driver.

Im wondering if thats the case with Seb. He got more love and support at Red Bull, which allowed him to do his thing, and he was successful. Ferrari don't strike me as a team that would provide the same level of support to their drivers as Red Bull do, which could explain the unforced errors.

Maybe it would be in his best interest/wellbeing to try and get back into Red Bull? It's interesting. The alternative thought of mine is that maybe he's overrated and a flat track bully. He needs the car/environment to be A+ in order for him to thrive. Once something's out of whack or not quite right, the errors kick in.
As said in the other thread, if Vettel gets an environment where he can thrive, he can still thrive.

Plenty of drivers have struggled to get on at the Italian team. I'm not even sure Hamilton, a driver of unquestionable talent, would thrive at the Italian team the way they have been these last few years.

I many ways Vettels situation, Ricciardos and Alonso's before them - highlight a lot of what is wrong with F1. You want to see the best drivers in competitive machinery, and (for different reasons) there is no obvious route for them to get into competitive machinery.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

yodasarmpit wrote:Vettel has no real options, it’s now just a downward spiral. Just retire - 4 world championships, nothing more to prove and try and forget the last couple of years.
Nothing to prove apart from proving that the last few years were a blip and that he still is a deserved 4 time WDC. I don't know how much reputation in the sport means to him, but if he leaves like this, his talent won't be remembered too fondly by a lot of F1 fans.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by DOLOMITE »

Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by SteveW »

mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Very good point. He doesn't read any social media, probably doesn't read any sport media at all so won't care what anyone is saying about him anyway - so would it matter THAT much to HIM (not the rest of the world, HIMSELF) if, for example, he went to Renault and didn't finish with more points than Ocon as long as he was still doing something he absolutely loved whilst still getting paid a few million for doing it?

Out of all the drivers on the current F1 grid, except for Kimi, I reckon Seb is probably the only other one that doesn't really give a stuff what anyone else thinks about them......

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Quark »

He should replace Bottas at Mercedes. Vettel and Hamilton will be the best pairing in F1 history.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by DOLOMITE »

SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Very good point. He doesn't read any social media, probably doesn't read any sport media at all so won't care what anyone is saying about him anyway - so would it matter THAT much to HIM (not the rest of the world, HIMSELF) if, for example, he went to Renault and didn't finish with more points than Ocon as long as he was still doing something he absolutely loved whilst still getting paid a few million for doing it?

Out of all the drivers on the current F1 grid, except for Kimi, I reckon Seb is probably the only other one that doesn't really give a stuff what anyone else thinks about them......

I'm sure Vettel does like driving F1 cars, but he wants to win - not just drive. You see the emotion in him when he does win and when he doesn't (but feels he should have). He loves the stats, the history and the sport, but where would be his motivation be when he already has 4 x WDC's? He clearly values home life and his 3 kids are at an age where if you are going to not be around them developing, you better have a good reason. Winning your first WDC might be a reason, winning one with Ferrari would. But being the other side of the world driving your nuts off for the occasional podium when you already have 120....

His "problem", if you can call it that, is that he achieved so much so young.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:
SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Very good point. He doesn't read any social media, probably doesn't read any sport media at all so won't care what anyone is saying about him anyway - so would it matter THAT much to HIM (not the rest of the world, HIMSELF) if, for example, he went to Renault and didn't finish with more points than Ocon as long as he was still doing something he absolutely loved whilst still getting paid a few million for doing it?

Out of all the drivers on the current F1 grid, except for Kimi, I reckon Seb is probably the only other one that doesn't really give a stuff what anyone else thinks about them......

I'm sure Vettel does like driving F1 cars, but he wants to win - not just drive. You see the emotion in him when he does win and when he doesn't (but feels he should have). He loves the stats, the history and the sport, but where would be his motivation be when he already has 4 x WDC's? He clearly values home life and his 3 kids are at an age where if you are going to not be around them developing, you better have a good reason. Winning your first WDC might be a reason, winning one with Ferrari would. But being the other side of the world driving your nuts off for the occasional podium when you already have 120....

His "problem", if you can call it that, is that he achieved so much so young.
For the enjoyment of actually doing it. The victory is the end result but what if he actually enjoys driving and racing F1 cars. Everything you've said applies to Kimi as well but he still fancies it and he's nearly 10 years older than Vettel.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case for Vettel it's just a factor nobody ever seems to take into account when talking about these things.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

Badgeronimous wrote:
Charles LeBrad wrote:Hmm, how do we solve a problem like Vettel? I've been wondering about him since this this announcement, and I wonder if he can be compared to Paul Tracy. A superior Paul Tracy FWIW.

Paul was a very aggressive driver in CART, but he responded to hugs. When he was in teams where he was under pressure to perform, or didn't get the level of respect he wanted, the aggression and unforced errors tended to be higher. When he switched to Team Green, he got more support from the team, and the results came. He was a completely different driver.

Im wondering if thats the case with Seb. He got more love and support at Red Bull, which allowed him to do his thing, and he was successful. Ferrari don't strike me as a team that would provide the same level of support to their drivers as Red Bull do, which could explain the unforced errors.

Maybe it would be in his best interest/wellbeing to try and get back into Red Bull? It's interesting. The alternative thought of mine is that maybe he's overrated and a flat track bully. He needs the car/environment to be A+ in order for him to thrive. Once something's out of whack or not quite right, the errors kick in.
As said in the other thread, if Vettel gets an environment where he can thrive, he can still thrive.

Plenty of drivers have struggled to get on at the Italian team. I'm not even sure Hamilton, a driver of unquestionable talent, would thrive at the Italian team the way they have been these last few years.

I many ways Vettels situation, Ricciardos and Alonso's before them - highlight a lot of what is wrong with F1. You want to see the best drivers in competitive machinery, and (for different reasons) there is no obvious route for them to get into competitive machinery.
I would say all 3 drivers walked away from competitive machinery, they all want a competitive car but also a teammate that they can beat, in regards to Vettel he had good cars from 2009-2013 and then 2017/18, that's 7 years of WDC capable cars out of 12 years.

It's hard to feel sorry for what he managed to achieve and the cars he was given, which puts his record 3rd on the all time list, not bad for a driver that's presently the 5th best driver, 6th if Alonso was still around, the boy did good.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Will he like winning no more races?

By all accounts Vettel decided to leave because Ferrari wouldn't give him what he wanted, a combination of money and status within the team, he was prepared to forgo one but not both, I'm not sure that sounds like someone who wants to continue in F1 just for the fun of it.

If we're comparing with Kimi, that wasn't Kimi's choice to leave Ferrari, for Vettel to take such a step questions his desire to remain in F1, maybe retirement wasn't said because he might hope to end up at Mercedes?
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

Quark wrote:He should replace Bottas at Mercedes. Vettel and Hamilton will be the best pairing in F1 history.
In terms of titles but there's been better pairings, Hamilton himself has had a better teammate than Vettel.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Will he like winning no more races?

By all accounts Vettel decided to leave because Ferrari wouldn't give him what he wanted, a combination of money and status within the team, he was prepared to forgo one but not both, I'm not sure that sounds like someone who wants to continue in F1 just for the fun of it.

If we're comparing with Kimi, that wasn't Kimi's choice to leave Ferrari, for Vettel to take such a step questions his desire to remain in F1, maybe retirement wasn't said because he might hope to end up at Mercedes?
I don't know what he personally would enjoy but yes I can completely see someone enjoying racing an F1 car even if winning is unlikely.

Could be any number of reasons why Vettel felt he couldn't continue with Ferrari. That doesn't mean it's not possible he would enjoy racing for a different teams. You could flip it around and ask with so much success already achieved why would he be so driven by the idea of achieving more.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
SteveW wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Very good point. He doesn't read any social media, probably doesn't read any sport media at all so won't care what anyone is saying about him anyway - so would it matter THAT much to HIM (not the rest of the world, HIMSELF) if, for example, he went to Renault and didn't finish with more points than Ocon as long as he was still doing something he absolutely loved whilst still getting paid a few million for doing it?

Out of all the drivers on the current F1 grid, except for Kimi, I reckon Seb is probably the only other one that doesn't really give a stuff what anyone else thinks about them......

I'm sure Vettel does like driving F1 cars, but he wants to win - not just drive. You see the emotion in him when he does win and when he doesn't (but feels he should have). He loves the stats, the history and the sport, but where would be his motivation be when he already has 4 x WDC's? He clearly values home life and his 3 kids are at an age where if you are going to not be around them developing, you better have a good reason. Winning your first WDC might be a reason, winning one with Ferrari would. But being the other side of the world driving your nuts off for the occasional podium when you already have 120....

His "problem", if you can call it that, is that he achieved so much so young.
For the enjoyment of actually doing it. The victory is the end result but what if he actually enjoys driving and racing F1 cars. Everything you've said applies to Kimi as well but he still fancies it and he's nearly 10 years older than Vettel.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case for Vettel it's just a factor nobody ever seems to take into account when talking about these things.
Global lockdown may have come at the right time for Seb so. He has the chance now to simulate what retirement life would look like, and whether he would miss F1 after a long break. Perhaps significant is the fact that he bought his own sim racing gear, indicating that he still has that competitive racing spirit in him.

If the Mclaren deal really was on the table for Seb however, I can't see why he would turn it down if he did want to continue racing for the enjoyment.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Will he like winning no more races?

By all accounts Vettel decided to leave because Ferrari wouldn't give him what he wanted, a combination of money and status within the team, he was prepared to forgo one but not both, I'm not sure that sounds like someone who wants to continue in F1 just for the fun of it.

If we're comparing with Kimi, that wasn't Kimi's choice to leave Ferrari, for Vettel to take such a step questions his desire to remain in F1, maybe retirement wasn't said because he might hope to end up at Mercedes?
I don't know what he personally would enjoy but yes I can completely see someone enjoying racing an F1 car even if winning is unlikely.

Could be any number of reasons why Vettel felt he couldn't continue with Ferrari. That doesn't mean it's not possible he would enjoy racing for a different teams. You could flip it around and ask with so much success already achieved why would he be so driven by the idea of achieving more.
The very best always strive to achieve more until it becomes out of reach, I read Vettel as a person who doesn't want to be in F1 just for the fun of it.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by bourbon19 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Well that's another door closed then. I think it's going to be time to walk away, surely?

Renault? I don't see it. They might want him I guess, but would he want to go there? No evidence they are are really on the rise? And if they are, surely Ocon will be their (French) focus? Seb could even face getting spanked by another youngster. Plus you still have the Alonso factor if they want a high profile name.

I don't see the Mercedes thing happening. It makes no sense. Hamilton is now clearly staying, why would they unsettle the dynamic they have with Bottas and Hamilton? If Merc think Bottas's time is up, they have Russel waiting in the wings and potentially even Ocon if the rsight strings are pulled.

Go join his old badminton partner at Alfa? What would be the point?

I agree. I think he will retire after 2020. Too bad.
There is one fact that nobody ever seems to consider in discussions like this. What if Vettel actually likes racing F1 cars?
Will he like winning no more races?

By all accounts Vettel decided to leave because Ferrari wouldn't give him what he wanted, a combination of money and status within the team, he was prepared to forgo one but not both, I'm not sure that sounds like someone who wants to continue in F1 just for the fun of it.

If we're comparing with Kimi, that wasn't Kimi's choice to leave Ferrari, for Vettel to take such a step questions his desire to remain in F1, maybe retirement wasn't said because he might hope to end up at Mercedes?
I don't know what he personally would enjoy but yes I can completely see someone enjoying racing an F1 car even if winning is unlikely.

Could be any number of reasons why Vettel felt he couldn't continue with Ferrari. That doesn't mean it's not possible he would enjoy racing for a different teams. You could flip it around and ask with so much success already achieved why would he be so driven by the idea of achieving more.
The very best always strive to achieve more until it becomes out of reach, I read Vettel as a person who doesn't want to be in F1 just for the fun of it.
I agree. I think he will retire after 2020. Too bad. The only thing he might do is join Kimi at Little Red. But he sounded like he was finished.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Asphalt_World »

I too think that Vettel simply likes racing F1 cars and may enjoy the sport, even if he's not winning. I've read many times that drivers retire because they don't think they'll reach the heights they once did, only to regret giving up the sport too soon.

OK, so he may get an offer from Indycar or from a top Endurance Racing team, but I could see him in a second tier F1 car. A driver needs to re-donkeys their goals if they drop to a second tier team and if that can be done well, they can get serious enjoyment from getting a few points from time to time. You're also more likely to be battling other cars.

A lot of footballers do the same thing because they know they have years and years of life ahead of them, most of which will not be playing football if they simply give it all up.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by DOLOMITE »

There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by MistaVega23 »

Charles LeBrad wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:Sainz to Ferrari (Leclerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to McLaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Alonso to Renault (Alonso / Ocon)
Bottas to Racing.AstonMartin (Bottas / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Hamilton / Vettel)
Close to my prediction
Sainz to Ferrari (LeClerc / Sainz)
Ricciardo to Mclaren (Ricciardo / Norris)
Gasly to Renault (Gasly / Ocon)
New blood at Red Bull (Kvyat / Rookie)
Hamilton to follow Toto to Aston Martin (Hamilton / Perez)
Vettel to Mercedes (Vettel / Bottas)

Goes against my previous post I know, but Im sticking to it. We'll see the #1 English driver in an English team square off against the #1 German driver in a German team. Im banking on Lewis feeling he's achieved all he can at Merc, and is appealed by joining Aston and building them up with Toto.
No room for Max?
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by Jezza13 »

I'd like to see him stay as i've grown to like the post-RB Vettel but I think he'll retire.

After spending practically his entire career at the sharp end of the grid, i'm not sure he'll find trundling around in the mid field like Raikonnen all that satisfying. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would not be fussed with walking away from the sport, especially as he's got a young family to keep him occupied.

I think he'd be happy living in Switzerland, working on his cars, spending quality time with his family whilst deciding what to do for the rest of his life.
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.
I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.
I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
In 2021 all the top three teams look like they will run a driver weaker than Vettel. Same with Alonso. The big three teams don't pick solely on ability. If they did Albon would not be driving for Red Bull. There is almost no proven success in F1 outside of Hamilton and Vettel. Lots of potential but I think, as of now, this is the weakest grid since 2002. It won't help of we keep losing drivers who would be in the top 10 of the grid E.G Vettel, Hulkenberg, Alonso.

Go back 10 years and by seasons end we have 5 WDC's and 9 of the drivers on the grid had mounted serious championship challenges at some point. On the current grid nobodies even been close apart from Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen. In fact Ferrari having a team leader who has achieved just two wins. That kind of tells you all you need to know.

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by DOLOMITE »

mikeyg123 wrote: I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
In 2021 all the top three teams look like they will run a driver weaker than Vettel. Same with Alonso. The big three teams don't pick solely on ability. If they did Albon would not be driving for Red Bull. There is almost no proven success in F1 outside of Hamilton and Vettel. Lots of potential but I think, as of now, this is the weakest grid since 2002. It won't help of we keep losing drivers who would be in the top 10 of the grid E.G Vettel, Hulkenberg, Alonso.

Go back 10 years and by seasons end we have 5 WDC's and 9 of the drivers on the grid had mounted serious championship challenges at some point. On the current grid nobodies even been close apart from Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen. In fact Ferrari having a team leader who has achieved just two wins. That kind of tells you all you need to know.
[/quote]

Well it doesn't necessarily. It's an interpretation, but not the only one. When Schu was winning everything it didn't signify a weak grid, just a dominant driver. You could take the view that if a bunch of drivers are winning, none of them are exceptional so that could be a sign of a weak grid.

Another interpretation is that if the teams feel that quality drivers like Vettel, Button, Alonso are no longer required, that could be an indication that the current drivers are actually very high quality or at least as you say have massive potential.

I think a big part is the 2 alpha males thing. Vettel and Alonso are clearly drivers that see themselves as No 1 and expect the team to think the same. I don't have the stats but it felt to me like Vettel made more mistakes when he has the threat of Leclerc than when Kimi was there. Alonso I think would go up against anyone such his conviction but if he thought for one second the team wasn't 100% behind him the pram would be empty of toys in seconds.

So when as a team boss you have a Hamilton, a Leclerc or a Verstappen, these drivers become much less attractive. Especially if they come at a premium.

I still get frustrated that Button didn't get a few more years as he always felt to me like the ideal driver from a team boss point of view. Hamilton/Button was a hell of a line up.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.
I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
In 2021 all the top three teams look like they will run a driver weaker than Vettel. Same with Alonso. The big three teams don't pick solely on ability. If they did Albon would not be driving for Red Bull. There is almost no proven success in F1 outside of Hamilton and Vettel. Lots of potential but I think, as of now, this is the weakest grid since 2002. It won't help of we keep losing drivers who would be in the top 10 of the grid E.G Vettel, Hulkenberg, Alonso.

Go back 10 years and by seasons end we have 5 WDC's and 9 of the drivers on the grid had mounted serious championship challenges at some point. On the current grid nobodies even been close apart from Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen. In fact Ferrari having a team leader who has achieved just two wins. That kind of tells you all you need to know.
Vettel the champion of 2010 is presently only the 5th best driver on today's grid and the kid who's going to lead Ferrari in 2021 despite only having had 2 wins beat Vettel in only his second season in F1, yet he is being depictied as being inferior to many of the drivers in 2010 because they had many years to build their better resumees.

One reason we're going to have the situation in 2021 with the #2 drivers is because better drivers ran away from the challenge, Ricciardo at Red Bull, Rosberg at Mercedes and now Vettel at Ferrari, and let's not kid ourselves we didn't have a similar situation in 2010 with Massa and Webber, both were kept around for years because they didn't really offer a challenge to their teammates.
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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

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Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:There is a difference between driving the car, racing and winning. For example I used to do some kart racing. Driving the karts could have just been testing - boring. Racing was competing with 30 or so other drivers. My team was generally top 10. So the racing was the enjoyment. We never won or looked like winning so we didn't come home disappointed if we were 4th. The regular winners you could see slamming their boots and looking miserable when they "lost" a win. Their enjoyment came from a different place. Equally I wouldn't have been in the least bit interested coming last every weekend.

Vettel is a professional sportsman. Sports by their very nature are target driven. It should at least be all about the winning or at least some kind of goal/challenge. First get to F1, then to get a Win, then a WDC, maybe race for Ferrari, win for 2 teams etc. All "unfinished business" till you've achieved them. And Vettel has.

After that what's really left? As Rosberg has pointed out competing at that level requires absolute 100% dedication and compromises all other aspects of your life. I just don't see how Vettel would want that with 3 kids at such key stages. Ricciardo is very open about this - driving is great, winning is better, but his goal his to leave the sport as a WDC and until then it's his absolute focus.

I know Raikkonen you could see as being in a similar position but as many have pointed out, he doesn't seem to be 100% driven by winning. Being competitive yes, but not winning. He's not "used" to it and have that same expectation about him that Vettel does.

I think maybe the way some of us here are viewing it is by comparing the option of driving F1 cars to our humdrum lives. That's not the choice Vettel is facing. He has done it, been a massive success and made a fortune.

Anyway, I'm not Vettel and i don't know him, so maybe a couple more years adding the odd podium to his stats will keep him happy, who knows other than Seb himself.
I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.
I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
In 2021 all the top three teams look like they will run a driver weaker than Vettel. Same with Alonso. The big three teams don't pick solely on ability. If they did Albon would not be driving for Red Bull. There is almost no proven success in F1 outside of Hamilton and Vettel. Lots of potential but I think, as of now, this is the weakest grid since 2002. It won't help of we keep losing drivers who would be in the top 10 of the grid E.G Vettel, Hulkenberg, Alonso.

Go back 10 years and by seasons end we have 5 WDC's and 9 of the drivers on the grid had mounted serious championship challenges at some point. On the current grid nobodies even been close apart from Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen. In fact Ferrari having a team leader who has achieved just two wins. That kind of tells you all you need to know.
Vettel the champion of 2010 is presently only the 5th best driver on today's grid and the kid who's going to lead Ferrari in 2021 despite only having had 2 wins beat Vettel in only his second season in F1, yet he is being depictied as being inferior to many of the drivers in 2010 because they had many years to build their better resumees.

One reason we're going to have the situation in 2021 with the #2 drivers is because better drivers ran away from the challenge, Ricciardo at Red Bull, Rosberg at Mercedes and now Vettel at Ferrari, and let's not kid ourselves we didn't have a similar situation in 2010 with Massa and Webber, both were kept around for years because they didn't really offer a challenge to their teammates.
True to a point but at least Webber and Massa showed themselves capable of challenging for championships.

pokerman
Posts: 35327
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Vettel: What do you think he should do next?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: I know what you're saying but there have been plenty of successful drivers, even champions who have chosen to continue despite uncompetitive cars later in their careers. It's actually quite notable that a lot of champions do actually come back to F1 after they leave the first time. If Vettel does continue then he will need to recalibrate his expectations but he could still just enjoy being an F1 driver, now without the pressure or expectations. I hope he stays. We don't want to make a weakish grid weaker.
I have to wonder about this weakish grid when a driver like Vettel can only be considered the 5th best driver and that's basically why he can no longer command #1 status in a top team, when was F1 ever stronger that a driver of Alonso's quality can't find himself a top seat?
In 2021 all the top three teams look like they will run a driver weaker than Vettel. Same with Alonso. The big three teams don't pick solely on ability. If they did Albon would not be driving for Red Bull. There is almost no proven success in F1 outside of Hamilton and Vettel. Lots of potential but I think, as of now, this is the weakest grid since 2002. It won't help of we keep losing drivers who would be in the top 10 of the grid E.G Vettel, Hulkenberg, Alonso.

Go back 10 years and by seasons end we have 5 WDC's and 9 of the drivers on the grid had mounted serious championship challenges at some point. On the current grid nobodies even been close apart from Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen. In fact Ferrari having a team leader who has achieved just two wins. That kind of tells you all you need to know.
Vettel the champion of 2010 is presently only the 5th best driver on today's grid and the kid who's going to lead Ferrari in 2021 despite only having had 2 wins beat Vettel in only his second season in F1, yet he is being depictied as being inferior to many of the drivers in 2010 because they had many years to build their better resumees.

One reason we're going to have the situation in 2021 with the #2 drivers is because better drivers ran away from the challenge, Ricciardo at Red Bull, Rosberg at Mercedes and now Vettel at Ferrari, and let's not kid ourselves we didn't have a similar situation in 2010 with Massa and Webber, both were kept around for years because they didn't really offer a challenge to their teammates.
True to a point but at least Webber and Massa showed themselves capable of challenging for championships.
Two drivers who would stuggle to make the top 10 list on todays grid nearly won the WDC, I'm not sure what that says about what they were up against?
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

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