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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:08 pm 
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j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Not sure how legit this site is but they do reference Bild & Marca in the article.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/59558/-liberty-media-wants-to-help-renault-bring-in-alonso-by-paying-part-of-its-salary-.html

If true then looks like Freddy might actually come back.

Understand having him back will generate favorable publicity for the sport & put bums on seats but not sure if Liberty should be involving themselves in driver negotiations from a financial assistance point of view. Especially when the team they want to help is owned by one of the worlds largest car manufacturers who just paid one of their drivers $20m plus last year.

That's a horrendous precendent they'd be setting. I wonder what might then happen if Mercedes "can't afford" to renew Lewis Hamilton's contract?

Plus, what happens if Alonso then wins the championship? The winning team will have won as a result of receiving direct financial assistance from the sport's owners. The integrity of the competition doesn't need to be dragged down any further than it already has.


Yes, I'd love Alonso back but this is as bullshit as Ferrari's veto.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:45 pm 
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In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:49 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it would make sense if they extended the time points could be accumulated in by a season. So points had to be earned in the last 4 seasons rather than last 3.

Bottas is a possibility as is a return for Hulkenberg. Bottas to Renault would, i guess, mean Russell to Mercedes.


Or Vettel to Mercedes.

Russell is still young and inexperienced, and the right time for him to take a top seat might coincide with the day Lewis decides to retire.

I'd love to see Hulk back on the grid, but have a feeling Renault may not take him back after sacking him the year before. Perhaps a seat at Haas will open up for him, or are we in a permanent state of having the Grosjean-Magnussen duo causing mayhem at the back?


They didn't sack him. They didn't renew his contract as they felt they had a better option. If Hulkenberg is the best option again I dout they would bulk at approaching him. I don't see Vettel at Mercedes as likely at all.

No they offered the Hulk a 1 year contract but he turned it down because he wanted a longer contract.


This doesn't contradict what I said lol.

You said they didn't renew Hulk's contract which is not true, he turned it down.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:55 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!

I was thinking that myself, why is Norris being pegged as a driver that is definitely going to get beat by Sainz, he already is able to match him in qualifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 3:06 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!

I was thinking that myself, why is Norris being pegged as a driver that is definitely going to get beat by Sainz, he already is able to match him in qualifying.

I don't see that pegging going on. When we took our pre-season poll on this forum, 75% went for Norris to come out ahead: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15846

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!

I was thinking that myself, why is Norris being pegged as a driver that is definitely going to get beat by Sainz, he already is able to match him in qualifying.

I don't see that pegging going on. When we took our pre-season poll on this forum, 75% went for Norris to come out ahead: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15846

Maybe Sainz's stock went up as soon as he got the call from Ferrari? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!

I was thinking that myself, why is Norris being pegged as a driver that is definitely going to get beat by Sainz, he already is able to match him in qualifying.

I don't see that pegging going on. When we took our pre-season poll on this forum, 75% went for Norris to come out ahead: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15846

Maybe Sainz's stock went up as soon as he got the call from Ferrari? :)


I think most people think Norris and Sainz are (soon to be) top drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:21 am 
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Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:57 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?

Unlucky, sort of. But I think his goal is to slide into the Mercedes as soon as one of their drivers leaves, so he's still on target.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:02 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?


Neither really. He's just not factored into these discussions because he's signed to both Williams and Mercedes. He isn't gettable for anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:52 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
In fact there are loads of fascinating scenarios.

What if Norris beats Sainz this season?
What if Vettel ignores his team and beats Leclerc? (Nothing to loose)
What if Ocon beats Ricciardo?

They have all gone very early this year!

I was thinking that myself, why is Norris being pegged as a driver that is definitely going to get beat by Sainz, he already is able to match him in qualifying.

I don't see that pegging going on. When we took our pre-season poll on this forum, 75% went for Norris to come out ahead: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15846

Maybe Sainz's stock went up as soon as he got the call from Ferrari? :)


I think most people think Norris and Sainz are (soon to be) top drivers.

Like top drivers grow on trees?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?

No the 2021 Mercedes driver line up is yet to be decided.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?


He's in danger of becoming forgotten. Even assuming he beats Latifi next season, there will be doubts over what kind of benchmark Latifi is. It could also get to the point where his Merc contract becomes more of a hinderance than a help.

Ideally, I would want to have seen him up against a stronger driver. Either by Hulkenberg joining Williams, or Russell in the second Racing Point instead of Daddy's little soldier.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:10 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Out of interest and to complete the picture does this mean that George Russell is now a forgotten prospect or has he just been unlucky?


He's in danger of becoming forgotten. Even assuming he beats Latifi next season, there will be doubts over what kind of benchmark Latifi is. It could also get to the point where his Merc contract becomes more of a hinderance than a help.

Ideally, I would want to have seen him up against a stronger driver. Either by Hulkenberg joining Williams, or Russell in the second Racing Point instead of Daddy's little soldier.

Leclerc didn't really need matching up against a tier 2 driver, even though it's better for Hamilton to continue with Bottas as his teammate I think Mercedes need to promote Russell next year or 2022 at the latest.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm 
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Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:47 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/


If Bottas has a good season, he might count himself a little unlucky if this turns out to be true but I’d be excited to see what Russell could do in a Mercedes. It might make sense to give him 2021 in the Merc so he doesn’t join as we go straight into new regulations in 2022.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:20 pm 
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I think Russell is a (much) bigger talent than Bottas, so I'm all in favour of this rumour.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:17 pm 
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Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:34 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:04 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

Russell needs his chance, best to do it early in order to give Bottas more time to find another seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

Russell needs his chance, best to do it early in order to give Bottas more time to find another seat.


According to Ted Kravitz Ocon is still ahead of Russell in the pecking order. Personally I'd be surprised if either of them had the Mercedes drive before 2022. I struggle to see what Mercedes gain from rushing things.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

Russell needs his chance, best to do it early in order to give Bottas more time to find another seat.


According to Ted Kravitz Ocon is still ahead of Russell in the pecking order. Personally I'd be surprised if either of them had the Mercedes drive before 2022. I struggle to see what Mercedes gain from rushing things.

Ocon is under contract to Renault for 2021, when I said do the deal early I just meant for this year to give Bottas more time to find another seat for next year, not as in sign Russell for 2021 rather than 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

Russell needs his chance, best to do it early in order to give Bottas more time to find another seat.


According to Ted Kravitz Ocon is still ahead of Russell in the pecking order. Personally I'd be surprised if either of them had the Mercedes drive before 2022. I struggle to see what Mercedes gain from rushing things.

Ocon is under contract to Renault for 2021, when I said do the deal early I just meant for this year to give Bottas more time to find another seat for next year, not as in sign Russell for 2021 rather than 2022.


Ocon and Russell are both signed for their current teams up to the end of 2021. I think if Ocon matches Ricciardo they probably go for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 7:40 pm 
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Who do you guys think is the bigger talent, Ocon or Russell?

I believe Russell is more talented. He won both the GP3 and F2 championships in empathic fashion in his rookie season. The F2 field that Russell competed against was also very strong. Ocon won both the F3 and GP3 championships in his rookie season, but in less far convincing fashion than Russell did.

We have also seen Ocon compete against Perez for two seasons. If we assume that Perez is on the same level as Bottas, then that doesn’t exactly bode well for Ocon’s chances against Hamilton. Russell is more of a mystery as we don’t know the true level of post-comeback Kubica.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 8:36 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Who do you guys think is the bigger talent, Ocon or Russell?

I believe Russell is more talented. He won both the GP3 and F2 championships in empathic fashion in his rookie season. The F2 field that Russell competed against was also very strong. Ocon won both the F3 and GP3 championships in his rookie season, but in less far convincing fashion than Russell did.

We have also seen Ocon compete against Perez for two seasons. If we assume that Perez is on the same level as Bottas, then that doesn’t exactly bode well for Ocon’s chances against Hamilton. Russell is more of a mystery as we don’t know the true level of post-comeback Kubica.



It's very difficult to judge Russell in F1 based on his current exploits, but to have the sheer consistency to whitewash Kubica in qualifying throughout a full season probably bodes more than just well.

We might have quite a special generation on the horizon, as it's not out of the question that Russell could be on at least Leclerc's level, and that we have three "generational talents" born within a year of each other, similar to Djokovic, Nadal and Murray in tennis or O'Sullivan, Higgins and Williams in snooker.

But really it's just too soon and we need to see a lot more. I think it's clear that Max is very special. Leclerc is at least a top level talent and might be able to challenge Max on talent, but perhaps he'll be half a step behind. For Russell, the jury is well and truly out.

As for Ocon, the indications are that he's a strong and quite well rounded driver. I view him as someone like Bottas, Sainz, Perez, who perhaps has potential to reach a N.Rosberg sort of level, though he may never get there. But I reckon when all is said and done, Ocon won't be considered as good a driver as Russell. However, Russell remains the biggest unknown in this equation, though it seems bizarre to project anything other than him at least being a strong solid F1 driver given his emphatic exploits in junior formulae.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 9:26 pm 
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I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:10 am 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.


Equally, Hamilton is no longer in the bargaining position. If he doesn't sign for Mercedes, where does he go? Mercedes has a couple of top drivers to choose from. Hamilton has only one top team to drive for.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:15 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.


I agree. I have high hopes for Ocon. Certainly one of the best prospects in F1, excluding Verstappen and Leclerc.

At the same time however, I know very little of Russell as a driver to comment on him.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:16 am 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.


Equally, Hamilton is no longer in the bargaining position. If he doesn't sign for Mercedes, where does he go? Mercedes has a couple of top drivers to choose from. Hamilton has only one top team to drive for.


Mercedes don’t have anyone proven to be at the level of Hamilton to choose from though.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:19 am 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.


Equally, Hamilton is no longer in the bargaining position. If he doesn't sign for Mercedes, where does he go? Mercedes has a couple of top drivers to choose from. Hamilton has only one top team to drive for.

He could (threaten to) call it a day. Merc could suspect he's bluffing but it's a big risk to take. Besides Ferrari or Red Bull might give it a serious consideration even if they have contracts for both seats.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:42 am 
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JN23 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.


Equally, Hamilton is no longer in the bargaining position. If he doesn't sign for Mercedes, where does he go? Mercedes has a couple of top drivers to choose from. Hamilton has only one top team to drive for.


Mercedes don’t have anyone proven to be at the level of Hamilton to choose from though.


Alonso and Vettel are two juggernauts sidelined who would very happily drive for a fraction the cost of Hamilton. I don't want to form the discussion on whether they are as good as Hamilton would be or not, but it tremendously increases Mercedes' bargaining power.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 12:20 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Franco Nugnes who was among the first to report about Sainz moving to Ferrari, is now claiming Hamilton and Russell will be the Mercedes drivers from 2021.
For those that speak Italian (or google translate):
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... a/4794151/

Russell needs his chance, best to do it early in order to give Bottas more time to find another seat.


According to Ted Kravitz Ocon is still ahead of Russell in the pecking order. Personally I'd be surprised if either of them had the Mercedes drive before 2022. I struggle to see what Mercedes gain from rushing things.

Ocon is under contract to Renault for 2021, when I said do the deal early I just meant for this year to give Bottas more time to find another seat for next year, not as in sign Russell for 2021 rather than 2022.


Ocon and Russell are both signed for their current teams up to the end of 2021. I think if Ocon matches Ricciardo they probably go for him.

I think it would be far easier to release Russell from his contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 12:24 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Who do you guys think is the bigger talent, Ocon or Russell?

I believe Russell is more talented. He won both the GP3 and F2 championships in empathic fashion in his rookie season. The F2 field that Russell competed against was also very strong. Ocon won both the F3 and GP3 championships in his rookie season, but in less far convincing fashion than Russell did.

We have also seen Ocon compete against Perez for two seasons. If we assume that Perez is on the same level as Bottas, then that doesn’t exactly bode well for Ocon’s chances against Hamilton. Russell is more of a mystery as we don’t know the true level of post-comeback Kubica.

I think Russell as well, he was dominant in GP3 and F2, Ocon's level presently is of a tier 2 driver, he was similar to Perez, having said that he's only had 2 seasons in F1 so maybe just a bit early to pigeon hole him?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 12:46 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.

Well there's some things we can compare and some things we can't, we can see that Perez, Hulk and Ocon are very similar but then Ricciardo came along and showed he was a cut above the Hulk, with Bottas that's just pure supposition we just know he's not as good as Hamilton.

That's on pure match ups, if we go on cross references these drivers would struggle against Bottas in qualifying, at the highest level don't under estimate this factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Does anyone think that Hamilton has any say in who he wants to replace Bottas, if indeed he is going? I'd have thought that if anyone could spot young talent it would be LH.


Considering his contract runs out at the same time, he wouldn't really have the power to influence the decision. I'm sure his potential teammate will be a major factor in his contract talks however.

If Lewis says he won't sign unless his teammate is Bottas then I don't think Mercedes has any other option if and when they want to keep Hamilton.

Well that might be a bit more difficult now that Vettel is on the market, he can make an argument against certain drivers being disruptive like Alonso, Vettel and Ocon, but Russell doesn't have that kind of history, whenever Kubica was getting the elbows out last year you never seemed to see Russell retaliate, you never saw the drivers crash into each other, Russell seemed to have a certain respect for the team he was driving for.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 4:24 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.

Well there's some things we can compare and some things we can't, we can see that Perez, Hulk and Ocon are very similar but then Ricciardo came along and showed he was a cut above the Hulk, with Bottas that's just pure supposition we just know he's not as good as Hamilton.

That's on pure match ups, if we go on cross references these drivers would struggle against Bottas in qualifying, at the highest level don't under estimate this factor.


I agree it's debatable. Ricciardo will be a good benchmark for Ocon.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:52 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.

Well there's some things we can compare and some things we can't, we can see that Perez, Hulk and Ocon are very similar but then Ricciardo came along and showed he was a cut above the Hulk, with Bottas that's just pure supposition we just know he's not as good as Hamilton.

That's on pure match ups, if we go on cross references these drivers would struggle against Bottas in qualifying, at the highest level don't under estimate this factor.


I agree it's debatable. Ricciardo will be a good benchmark for Ocon.

Yes to see if Ocon has improved beyond a tier 2 level, if not that expect Ocon to be about a tenth slower.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 3:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I probably rate Ocon higher than most. Matching Perez in only his second season isn't something that should go without notice. I think he is already better than Bottas for example and you would have to assume he still has room to improve.

Russell is a total wild card at this point. He's certainly done everything possible in each of the last three seasons.

Well there's some things we can compare and some things we can't, we can see that Perez, Hulk and Ocon are very similar but then Ricciardo came along and showed he was a cut above the Hulk, with Bottas that's just pure supposition we just know he's not as good as Hamilton.

That's on pure match ups, if we go on cross references these drivers would struggle against Bottas in qualifying, at the highest level don't under estimate this factor.


I agree it's debatable. Ricciardo will be a good benchmark for Ocon.

Yes to see if Ocon has improved beyond a tier 2 level, if not that expect Ocon to be about a tenth slower.


I would expect Ocon to be slower at the start but if he is going to be a top driver he needs to be able to match Ricciardo by the end of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2021
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 5:33 am 
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Auto Bild are reporting this will be Wolff's last season as team principal of the Mercedes F1 team.
https://f1-insider.com/f1/formel-1-news ... ef-zuruck/

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