vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

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pc27b
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vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

plenty of articles out there claiming vettel turned down the one year deal and mclaren is interested in him.


i think ferrari ought to do everything they can to bring hamilton and wolf over. no matter the cost

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Jezza13 »

pc27b wrote:plenty of articles out there claiming vettel turned down the one year deal and mclaren is interested in him.


i think ferrari ought to do everything they can to bring hamilton and wolf over. no matter the cost
I know everything should be taken with a grain of salt in F1, but, on the face of it, it seems Hamilton has no interest in going to Ferrari

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... E414q.html

Very interesting if Ferrari did indeed offer Vettel only a 1 year deal. Hints that they feel Leclerc is the driver to take them forward & that Vettel might be out the door if he can't step up & beat Leclerc next year.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Zazu »

These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Zazu wrote:These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself
:lol:

I wouldn't rule out Hamilton to Ferrari just yet. Ferrari is a goal for EVERY driver and even he has said it himself in the past. Not very often, but he's said it.

Recently he stated he's partial to Mercedes due to loyalty based on them supporting him from day 1, but I call Bull Dookie on that. If Toto goes and they offer Hamilton a seat, I could easily see him in Scarlet Red. The thing that gets me is all the credit Wolff gets for Mercedes' success all these years. The facts are that Ross Brawn built the majority of the team, most of which are people who have been with the team for 2 decades dating back to the time they were HONDA, and Brawn placed countless people into key positions in the team and Wolff somehow weaseled his way into the team and helped usher Brawn out during the time the team and all his hard work was turning the corner and he's ridden the magic carpet ever since.

I mean I like the guy, but that's what happened and to dismiss any of that and insinuate he was the mastermind behind Mercedes era of dominance is a bit optimistic.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

i wasn't giving wolf all the credit. i just think hammy would be comfortable with him at this point. more likely both of them go red, than just hammy

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by KingVoid »

Vettel only has himself to blame for his stock falling so far, his last two years in particular have been littered with unforced errors. At this point in his career, he needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs him.

With that said, I still consider Vettel one of the fastest drivers on the grid. Leclerc is universally accepted as a rapid driver and one of the best young talents on the grid today, and Vettel was only 0.07s slower than him on average in qualifying. Vettel’s stock is a far cry from what it was in 2013, but he’s still rated much higher than either Massa or Raikkonen were during their Ferrari years.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by DOLOMITE »

As long as Leclerc is in the other red car I think Vettel is stuffed. Vettel could in theory drive better than he did last year in terms of reducing the unforced errors, but at his age he is not going to get any quicker. Leclerc on the other hand will improve over the next 1-2 years. Seems it typically takes 3 years for F1 driver to develop to their full potential.
The errors are, and always have been, Vettels weakness, never his outright speed. His dominant years at Red Bull he wasn't put under the same kind of pressure. Webber was only a threat one weekend in 3 and Vettel could generally afford to let that go, but when he didn't, it didn't generally end well. Then Ricciardo came along...

So an improving Leclerc is only going to add to the pressure and Vettels track record suggests that's when he isn't at his best. A 1 year deal is even more pressure. He would be driving for either his next contract or his final year in F1 and he wouldn't want to go out on a poor year.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by da4an1qu1 »

Zazu wrote:These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself
I know where you are coming from, but it isn't that far fetched.

If Leclerc establishes himself as the clear number one, and Ferrari's penchant for running a "rear gunner"/number two, Giovanazzi might make sense.

Anyway, may be all moot... there is another thread about whether Ferrari continue. F1's future is up in the air.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

Zazu wrote:These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself
Yeah that kind of only makes sense if it's Ferrari's intention to build the team around Leclerc hence signing Giovinazzi rather than the likes of Ricciardo, the 1 year deal for Vettel would indicate that Ferrari feel that Leclerc needs 1 more year to reach his full potential, long term their preference is probably not to have two #1 drivers as we have often seen in the past.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Zazu wrote:These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself
:lol:

I wouldn't rule out Hamilton to Ferrari just yet. Ferrari is a goal for EVERY driver and even he has said it himself in the past. Not very often, but he's said it.

Recently he stated he's partial to Mercedes due to loyalty based on them supporting him from day 1, but I call Bull Dookie on that. If Toto goes and they offer Hamilton a seat, I could easily see him in Scarlet Red. The thing that gets me is all the credit Wolff gets for Mercedes' success all these years. The facts are that Ross Brawn built the majority of the team, most of which are people who have been with the team for 2 decades dating back to the time they were HONDA, and Brawn placed countless people into key positions in the team and Wolff somehow weaseled his way into the team and helped usher Brawn out during the time the team and all his hard work was turning the corner and he's ridden the magic carpet ever since.

I mean I like the guy, but that's what happened and to dismiss any of that and insinuate he was the mastermind behind Mercedes era of dominance is a bit optimistic.
To be fair to Wolff many people feel he's the best TP in F1.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

i expect Ricciardo to be wearing the red colors next season

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

pokerman wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Zazu wrote:These same reports name Giovanazzi as a potential replacement....

There's more chance of Binotto driving the car himself
:lol:

I wouldn't rule out Hamilton to Ferrari just yet. Ferrari is a goal for EVERY driver and even he has said it himself in the past. Not very often, but he's said it.

Recently he stated he's partial to Mercedes due to loyalty based on them supporting him from day 1, but I call Bull Dookie on that. If Toto goes and they offer Hamilton a seat, I could easily see him in Scarlet Red. The thing that gets me is all the credit Wolff gets for Mercedes' success all these years. The facts are that Ross Brawn built the majority of the team, most of which are people who have been with the team for 2 decades dating back to the time they were HONDA, and Brawn placed countless people into key positions in the team and Wolff somehow weaseled his way into the team and helped usher Brawn out during the time the team and all his hard work was turning the corner and he's ridden the magic carpet ever since.

I mean I like the guy, but that's what happened and to dismiss any of that and insinuate he was the mastermind behind Mercedes era of dominance is a bit optimistic.
To be fair to Wolff many people feel he's the best TP in F1.
And to be fair… I've yet to read why they feel that way… Based on what exactly?
The key people in Mercedes design the car and it's systems and I'm pretty sure Wolff has exactly nothing to do with it. I agree he's excellent in managing the team on weekends, but that only applies to the outward appearance of the team, how they comport themselves publicly, and the few times he's gotten on the radio with the drivers to let them know what their engineers suggest needs to be followed.

Outside of that, I don't see how he helps the team when and where design, engineering and when it comes to performance.

There are vastly more people in the team that have been there for far longer who know far more than him and Wolff should not be given as much credit as he gets. Like I said, I genuinely like the guy, but I think he's given too much credit, much like Whitmarsh was given far too much credit early on in his tenure when the team was still doing well under his inherited leadership. Turned out it had more to do with Fry and Lowe, and I feel that is very much the case with Wolff & Mercedes.


pc27b wrote:i expect Ricciardo to be wearing the red colors next season
Now THAT would be interesting. Where would Vettel land if that were to actually happen? Sainz wouldn't leave McLaren to go back to Renault while Albiteboul is still running the program into the ground, even of the money being offered was even more than they offered Ricciardo, and I'm pretty sure Vettel wouldn't either.

Who then would fill the vacancy at Renault to incite the few musical chairs?

Would Grosjean return, creating a vacancy at Haas? Who then would fill that seat? I don't know that Vettel would be interested, but I can see him there over Renault, though I don't expect Steiner to continue with the team for too much longer if they don't improve in the short term as I think Gene is growing tired of excuses while he has very capable drivers.

Would or could Vettel then return to Red Bull while they send another one of their young drivers to another team on loan the way they did Sainz?

Then there is the Hamilton to Ferrari scenario which would more than likely see Vettel or Verstappen get his seat at Mercedes and THEN a real game of musical chairs would ensue. The only thing I know for sure is that this season either needs to get under way by at least June, or it needs to be scrapped altogether and perhaps start 2021 a tad earlier than normal, like the end of February.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by kleefton »

Vettel might find himself out of f1 if he doesn’t take that one yr contract. Could be reminiscent of the Hulkenberg situation really.
I’m not convinced Mclaren wants to change their driver lineup.
No way Seb really wants to partner Verstappen at Redbull unless Max goes to merc?
Renault might be the one team where he could end up if Ricciardo moves. Though Renault might not be in f1 for much longer it seems.
As far as Lewis to Ferrari... no I just don’t see it. Leclerc is gradually stamping his authority at that team. Would not make sense for Ferrari to bring in a six time world champion to make his life more difficult.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by JN23 »

F1 MERCENARY wrote: The only thing I know for sure is that this season either needs to get under way by at least June, or it needs to be scrapped altogether and perhaps start 2021 a tad earlier than normal, like the end of February.
Off topic (sorry mods) but I think it was Ross Brawn who said starting as late as October is fine as it will still see the minimum number of races for a championship achieved.

I think a July/August start could happen and 14-16 race calendar, probably all behind closed doors.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

kleefton wrote:Vettel might find himself out of f1 if he doesn’t take that one yr contract. Could be reminiscent of the Hulkenberg situation really.
I’m not convinced Mclaren wants to change their driver lineup.
No way Seb really wants to partner Verstappen at Redbull unless Max goes to merc?
Renault might be the one team where he could end up if Ricciardo moves. Though Renault might not be in f1 for much longer it seems.
As far as Lewis to Ferrari... no I just don’t see it. Leclerc is gradually stamping his authority at that team. Would not make sense for Ferrari to bring in a six time world champion to make his life more difficult.
BIB… No, but it would allow them to properly gauge Leclerc's and Vettel's speed to that of Hamilton's which would be a great way to assess all 3.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pendulumeffect »

If Hamilton and Wolff went to Ferrari, the press would call it a Red Mercedes!

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

i don't believe vettel will be out of f1 unless he decides he has had enough. as i stated, plenty of articles about mclaren being interested in him.

if he leaves ferrari, there could be a very fun domino affect on the field

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by DOLOMITE »

As a driver he's a difficult proposition. You can't ignore the multiple WDC's but equally they were a long time ago now. As a team boss you'd be looking at what you could expect that driver to do for your team in the next few couple of years.

Vettel despite his impressive stats still has question marks around him.

Leclerc beat him in only his 2nd year, and even if you think Leclerc is exceptional that's still a concern.
Ricciardo got the better of Vettel (if you ignore the conspiracy theories around performance clauses).
Vettel has made a lot of errors for a driver of his experience
The red mist still descends on occasion, the petulance etc etc.
His age is a factor and as a family man that could increasingly affect his motivation.
His salary expectations will be significant

If you weigh all that up against younger, cheaper drivers with longer term potential, I think you'd struggle to come up with a strong case for signing Vettel. And that has to tally with being a team Vettel would WANT to driver for in the first place. I just don't see it.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Covalent »

DOLOMITE wrote:As a driver he's a difficult proposition. You can't ignore the multiple WDC's but equally they were a long time ago now. As a team boss you'd be looking at what you could expect that driver to do for your team in the next few couple of years.

Vettel despite his impressive stats still has question marks around him.

Leclerc beat him in only his 2nd year, and even if you think Leclerc is exceptional that's still a concern.
Ricciardo got the better of Vettel (if you ignore the conspiracy theories around performance clauses).
Vettel has made a lot of errors for a driver of his experience
The red mist still descends on occasion, the petulance etc etc.
His age is a factor and as a family man that could increasingly affect his motivation.
His salary expectations will be significant

If you weigh all that up against younger, cheaper drivers with longer term potential, I think you'd struggle to come up with a strong case for signing Vettel. And that has to tally with being a team Vettel would WANT to driver for in the first place. I just don't see it.
Good points and I agree for most part, but on the flipside there aren't that many available realistic options for Ferrari and even fewer that would be an upgrade to Vettel, even considering the points you made.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Covalent wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:As a driver he's a difficult proposition. You can't ignore the multiple WDC's but equally they were a long time ago now. As a team boss you'd be looking at what you could expect that driver to do for your team in the next few couple of years.

Vettel despite his impressive stats still has question marks around him.

Leclerc beat him in only his 2nd year, and even if you think Leclerc is exceptional that's still a concern.
Ricciardo got the better of Vettel (if you ignore the conspiracy theories around performance clauses).
Vettel has made a lot of errors for a driver of his experience
The red mist still descends on occasion, the petulance etc etc.
His age is a factor and as a family man that could increasingly affect his motivation.
His salary expectations will be significant

If you weigh all that up against younger, cheaper drivers with longer term potential, I think you'd struggle to come up with a strong case for signing Vettel. And that has to tally with being a team Vettel would WANT to driver for in the first place. I just don't see it.
Good points and I agree for most part, but on the flipside there aren't that many available realistic options for Ferrari and even fewer that would be an upgrade to Vettel, even considering the points you made.
The only unrisky upgrade they could get on Vettel would be Ricciardo. Sainz, Bottas and Hulkenberg could all be gettable and would be cheaper but may be a downgrade.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by DOLOMITE »

From Ferrari's point of view it depends on 1) whether they feel Leclerc is ready to be the lead driver - i.e the one that , if the car is good enough, they could 'expect' to win the WDC and 2) what they want from the 2nd driver. Vettel would be out if the key factors are cost, long-term planning, or an easy-to-manage pairing.
Personally, much as I hate it, I'd try and sign the Hulk on a short term deal with an eye on Ricciardo as soon as possible. I don't think any of the drivers in their program are ready or showing enough potential.

Slight different topic, but IF you believe the view that Ricciardo ran awa from the challenge of Verstappen, do you think he'd sign to race alongside Leclerc at Ferrari?
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

i believe ricciardo would exercise his "get out" clause in a heartbeat, if ferrari were to offer him a ride. clearly red bull isn't ferrari

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

DOLOMITE wrote:From Ferrari's point of view it depends on 1) whether they feel Leclerc is ready to be the lead driver - i.e the one that , if the car is good enough, they could 'expect' to win the WDC and 2) what they want from the 2nd driver. Vettel would be out if the key factors are cost, long-term planning, or an easy-to-manage pairing.
Personally, much as I hate it, I'd try and sign the Hulk on a short term deal with an eye on Ricciardo as soon as possible. I don't think any of the drivers in their program are ready or showing enough potential.

Slight different topic, but IF you believe the view that Ricciardo ran awa from the challenge of Verstappen, do you think he'd sign to race alongside Leclerc at Ferrari?
I don't believe Ricciardo ran away from Verstappen so much as he witnessed from the inside how the team rallied around him over their reigning 4x WDC Driver and then saw them do the exact same thing with Verstappen over him. And while he and Verstappen were closely matched, it was more to do with the crap Verstappen got away with that wasn't even close to questionable and downright wrong, resulting in incidents due to Verstappen's arrogance that went unpunished by the team, and who would want to deal with that?

A spoiled brat who does as he pleases and destroys both cars, puts both drivers lives at risk unnecessarily, and then chalks it up to thongs happen with no repercussions? I think Ricciardo thought better of the situation and chose to relieve himself of the annoyance that he felt would continue had he continued with the team. Horner and Marko's loyalty is paper thin and lies with whatever the next new kid they feel is a prodigy and quickly forget those whom paid their dues and yielded results for and carried the team through rough times.

I'd love to see Ricciardo at Ferrari to see him duke it out with Leclerc on even footing, I think Leclerc will only tussle on questionable ground and he and Ricciardo would battle one another fair and square without either of them resorting to questionable tactics outside perhaps a few too late kamikaze dive bombs from Ricciardo here and there, though those seem to be behind Ricciardo these days.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:From Ferrari's point of view it depends on 1) whether they feel Leclerc is ready to be the lead driver - i.e the one that , if the car is good enough, they could 'expect' to win the WDC and 2) what they want from the 2nd driver. Vettel would be out if the key factors are cost, long-term planning, or an easy-to-manage pairing.
Personally, much as I hate it, I'd try and sign the Hulk on a short term deal with an eye on Ricciardo as soon as possible. I don't think any of the drivers in their program are ready or showing enough potential.

Slight different topic, but IF you believe the view that Ricciardo ran awa from the challenge of Verstappen, do you think he'd sign to race alongside Leclerc at Ferrari?
Ricciardo is out of contract for 2021 so if they want him they can have him soon.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Rockie »

When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
I think that will happen Vettel or not.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

mikeyg123 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:From Ferrari's point of view it depends on 1) whether they feel Leclerc is ready to be the lead driver - i.e the one that , if the car is good enough, they could 'expect' to win the WDC and 2) what they want from the 2nd driver. Vettel would be out if the key factors are cost, long-term planning, or an easy-to-manage pairing.
Personally, much as I hate it, I'd try and sign the Hulk on a short term deal with an eye on Ricciardo as soon as possible. I don't think any of the drivers in their program are ready or showing enough potential.

Slight different topic, but IF you believe the view that Ricciardo ran awa from the challenge of Verstappen, do you think he'd sign to race alongside Leclerc at Ferrari?
Ricciardo is out of contract for 2021 so if they want him they can have him soon.
yes he is, for some reason i thought he was signed through 21. real easy for ferrari to snatch him up

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Rockie »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
Neweys titles?

Oh same Newey that last won a title at Williams and did not win one till Vettel came along and since he left?

If we are going with irrational opinion.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Rockie wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
Neweys titles?

Oh same Newey that last won a title at Williams and did not win one till Vettel came along and since he left?

If we are going with irrational opinion.
Come on, please read my post rather than taking one sentence out of context.

mikeyg123
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Rockie wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
Neweys titles?

Oh same Newey that last won a title at Williams and did not win one till Vettel came along and since he left?

If we are going with irrational opinion.
If you're going to make yourself sound like a dick at least be right :lol: :lol: Newey also won with Mclaren in 98 and 99.

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Jezza13
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by Jezza13 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
In a way i'd be disappointed to see Ricciardo end up at Ferrari now.

Renault have said all their goal was to be up at the sharp end at the intro of the new regs. Enstone now seem to have a PU comparable to Merc & Ferrari & while they fell short of their goal last year, it was a chassis related problem which they identified & should see them improve this year.

They've hired Fry & De Beer plus there are rumours Abiteboul's heads on the chopping block & Freddie Vasseur could return. The introduction of the budget cap will suit Renault down to the ground as they already operate on a budget around that mark plus they've had success every time they've been involved in F1, either as a competitor or engine supplier. I think Ricciardo really does owe it to Renault, & to himself, to stick around & give Renault a chance to deliver on their goal.

Besides, if he does go to Ferrari to partner Leclerc, then what was the point of leaving RB for Renault in the first place? He left one team that had a highly favored young star as his team mate to join Renault & now he'd be leaving Renault to jump back into the exact same situation again. The only difference would be the colour of the car. that'd pretty much amount to 2 wasted years at Renault when he could've stayed with RB & at least had a chance to win a race or two, but I suppose Honda was seen as a bit of a basket case when they signed with RB & there's the hindsight thing too.

He's the star driver in a manufacturer team that could well still be a race winning challenger when the regs change.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

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pokerman
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
kleefton wrote:Vettel might find himself out of f1 if he doesn’t take that one yr contract. Could be reminiscent of the Hulkenberg situation really.
I’m not convinced Mclaren wants to change their driver lineup.
No way Seb really wants to partner Verstappen at Redbull unless Max goes to merc?
Renault might be the one team where he could end up if Ricciardo moves. Though Renault might not be in f1 for much longer it seems.
As far as Lewis to Ferrari... no I just don’t see it. Leclerc is gradually stamping his authority at that team. Would not make sense for Ferrari to bring in a six time world champion to make his life more difficult.
BIB… No, but it would allow them to properly gauge Leclerc's and Vettel's speed to that of Hamilton's which would be a great way to assess all 3.
I don't think that Hamilton's speed needs assessing.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:From Ferrari's point of view it depends on 1) whether they feel Leclerc is ready to be the lead driver - i.e the one that , if the car is good enough, they could 'expect' to win the WDC and 2) what they want from the 2nd driver. Vettel would be out if the key factors are cost, long-term planning, or an easy-to-manage pairing.
Personally, much as I hate it, I'd try and sign the Hulk on a short term deal with an eye on Ricciardo as soon as possible. I don't think any of the drivers in their program are ready or showing enough potential.

Slight different topic, but IF you believe the view that Ricciardo ran awa from the challenge of Verstappen, do you think he'd sign to race alongside Leclerc at Ferrari?
I would question Leclerc being as good as Verstappen.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

pc27b wrote:i believe ricciardo would exercise his "get out" clause in a heartbeat, if ferrari were to offer him a ride. clearly red bull isn't ferrari
Why does Ricciardo need to do that, he's a free agent for 2021.
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
I think that might have something to do with Marlboro that they need a world champion in one of the cars?
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
I believe that at the time Schumacher was the only world champion on the grid apart from Alonso, who had already signed for McLaren, and he chose to retire?
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pc27b »

pokerman wrote:
pc27b wrote:i believe ricciardo would exercise his "get out" clause in a heartbeat, if ferrari were to offer him a ride. clearly red bull isn't ferrari
Why does Ricciardo need to do that, he's a free agent for 2021.
i replied later, i thought he was signed through 21. but as i said, makes it even easier for him to sign with ferrari being out of contract after this season

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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
In a way i'd be disappointed to see Ricciardo end up at Ferrari now.

Renault have said all their goal was to be up at the sharp end at the intro of the new regs. Enstone now seem to have a PU comparable to Merc & Ferrari & while they fell short of their goal last year, it was a chassis related problem which they identified & should see them improve this year.

They've hired Fry & De Beer plus there are rumours Abiteboul's heads on the chopping block & Freddie Vasseur could return. The introduction of the budget cap will suit Renault down to the ground as they already operate on a budget around that mark plus they've had success every time they've been involved in F1, either as a competitor or engine supplier. I think Ricciardo really does owe it to Renault, & to himself, to stick around & give Renault a chance to deliver on their goal.

Besides, if he does go to Ferrari to partner Leclerc, then what was the point of leaving RB for Renault in the first place? He left one team that had a highly favored young star as his team mate to join Renault & now he'd be leaving Renault to jump back into the exact same situation again. The only difference would be the colour of the car. that'd pretty much amount to 2 wasted years at Renault when he could've stayed with RB & at least had a chance to win a race or two, but I suppose Honda was seen as a bit of a basket case when they signed with RB & there's the hindsight thing too.

He's the star driver in a manufacturer team that could well still be a race winning challenger when the regs change.
My twopenneth, one reason he left Red Bull was because more often that not he was getting beat by Verstappen, that might not be the case with Leclerc?
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mikeyg123
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Re: vettel turns down 1 year deal ?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Rockie wrote:When people understand the value of a world champion in a team folks would have a different line of thought.

Ferrari signed Kimi in '13 when they thought Alonso was leaving so as to have a World champion in the car.

I see its the same F1 does not need Ferrari crew thinking Ferrari will run the team with Leclerc leading it with a number 2.
Strange, because Ferrari replaced a 7x WDC with a 0 x WDC.

They need a WDC calibre driver in the car - one who is seen as a potential WDC, and the longer Seb goes without winning a championship - particularly after being beaten with races left to spare in 2017 and 2018 when he had a title contending car - the longer he goes the more those WDCs will be seen as Adrian Newey's and not his.

Kimi was clearly seen as WDC material in 2007, after his 2005 performance with him and Alonso seen as the two S tier drivers going into that season. Ricciardo is seen as one of the sport's top drivers, with him competing with Leclerc and Vettel for best after Hamilton and Verstappen in most people's lists.

Ricciardo would be cheaper than Vettel, and in their head to head he beat him fair and square (and he had him beaten before Seb decided he wanted to leave) - Vettel could find himself in the position where his WDCs end up being an impediment to his career than an asset. He'll always be able to find work because of him, just be overlooked for the work he would actually want.
I believe that at the time Schumacher was the only world champion on the grid apart from Alonso, who had already signed for McLaren, and he chose to retire?
I think it's common knowledge that Schumacher decided to retire off the back of Ferrari signing Kimi.

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