Non-Championship Races

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pokerman
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Non-Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

I've just heard that if any team can not attend any of the races then those races will be none championship, who wants to watch that, it's the equivalent of wanting to watch a pre season football friendly.

I'm not saying it should count as a points scoring round just why bother, the bottom line it seems not to lose money.
Last edited by pokerman on Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Siao7
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Siao7 »

Any sources for this? Sounds like a good idea, but we need more info. As in, do they mean not attending because of outside circumstances (like the virus outbreak) or just because they didn't have enough spare parts? Because these are two very different things.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:Any sources for this? Sounds like a good idea, but we need more info. As in, do they mean not attending because of outside circumstances (like the virus outbreak) or just because they didn't have enough spare parts? Because these are two very different things.
Obviously it's because of the virus which the teams can't control, if a team is that cash strapped then that's their problem, I heard it came from Ross Brawn.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:Any sources for this? Sounds like a good idea, but we need more info. As in, do they mean not attending because of outside circumstances (like the virus outbreak) or just because they didn't have enough spare parts? Because these are two very different things.
Obviously it's because of the virus which the teams can't control, if a team is that cash strapped then that's their problem, I heard it came from Ross Brawn.
I know, I was joking. But I would expect a link somehow. This could mean that Ferrari will probably miss most races after Australia?

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by mikeyg123 »

Why not? Surely better to have a race than not even if it doesn't count toward the championship? What do you lose?

wire2004
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by wire2004 »

There is rules in place for non attendance and when a championship race becomes a non championship race. Just because a team can not make It due to the Corona virus. Doesn't mean the fia will make it a non championship race. There needs to be less than 12 cars for the race not to count towards the championship.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:Why not? Surely better to have a race than not even if it doesn't count toward the championship? What do you lose?
Horses for courses I suppose, I couldn't get excited about watching exhibition races were nothing counts, the win, the podium or the pole position.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

wire2004 wrote:There is rules in place for non attendance and when a championship race becomes a non championship race. Just because a team can not make It due to the Corona virus. Doesn't mean the fia will make it a non championship race. There needs to be less than 12 cars for the race not to count towards the championship.
Fair enough this may well have been just the musings of Ross Brawn then who brought forward the idea of none championship races?
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Herb
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Herb »

pokerman wrote:
wire2004 wrote:There is rules in place for non attendance and when a championship race becomes a non championship race. Just because a team can not make It due to the Corona virus. Doesn't mean the fia will make it a non championship race. There needs to be less than 12 cars for the race not to count towards the championship.
Fair enough this may well have been just the musings of Ross Brawn then who brought forward the idea of none championship races?
You got quotes or a link?

I think I saw this somewhere - I just can't find it again, anyway, I think there was a bit more nuance to it than you are making out.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

Herb wrote:
pokerman wrote:
wire2004 wrote:There is rules in place for non attendance and when a championship race becomes a non championship race. Just because a team can not make It due to the Corona virus. Doesn't mean the fia will make it a non championship race. There needs to be less than 12 cars for the race not to count towards the championship.
Fair enough this may well have been just the musings of Ross Brawn then who brought forward the idea of none championship races?
You got quotes or a link?

I think I saw this somewhere - I just can't find it again, anyway, I think there was a bit more nuance to it than you are making out.
I will try and find it, it could be that I only half read it.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Herb »

Finally found it - it was on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51727401
Ross Brawn wrote:If a team is prevented from entering a country, we can't have a race.

Not a World Championship race, anyway, because that would be unfair.
and
Ross Brawn wrote:Obviously if a team makes its own choice not to go to a race, that's their decision.

But where a team is prevented from going to a race because of a decision of the country then it's difficult to have a fair competition.
See, its if the host country stops a team competing. If a team takes steps itself, there will just be a race without them.


Also - I will definitely watch a non-championship race, as will many others.

I wonder if things like engines would be taken out of the season's normal allocation. If not, would any team stick in a basically disposable engine in and give it full whack for the full race?

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

Herb wrote:Finally found it - it was on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51727401
Ross Brawn wrote:If a team is prevented from entering a country, we can't have a race.

Not a World Championship race, anyway, because that would be unfair.
and
Ross Brawn wrote:Obviously if a team makes its own choice not to go to a race, that's their decision.

But where a team is prevented from going to a race because of a decision of the country then it's difficult to have a fair competition.
See, its if the host country stops a team competing. If a team takes steps itself, there will just be a race without them.


Also - I will definitely watch a non-championship race, as will many others.

I wonder if things like engines would be taken out of the season's normal allocation. If not, would any team stick in a basically disposable engine in and give it full whack for the full race?
Yeah I found it as well.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14853 ... oronavirus

It seems that Ross Brawn feels empowered to be able to re write the rule book judging by what I've read in this thread about the minimum number of cars required.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by mikeyg123 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
Yes, the races themselves could be exciting. We often get the most entertaining races when the championship is over. Look how Hamilton and Mercedes treated Brazil last season. Taking low percentage shots in the hope of a win rather than an easy podium.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Herb »

pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Not everybody cares about that!

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?
For me the race would be meaningless so why would I watch, also it's liable to be competing against another sporting event that actually has some meaning whether it be the likes of MotoGP or football.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

Non...
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:Non...
Is that a spelling correction? :)
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Herb wrote:Finally found it - it was on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51727401
Ross Brawn wrote:If a team is prevented from entering a country, we can't have a race.

Not a World Championship race, anyway, because that would be unfair.
and
Ross Brawn wrote:Obviously if a team makes its own choice not to go to a race, that's their decision.

But where a team is prevented from going to a race because of a decision of the country then it's difficult to have a fair competition.
See, its if the host country stops a team competing. If a team takes steps itself, there will just be a race without them.


Also - I will definitely watch a non-championship race, as will many others.

I wonder if things like engines would be taken out of the season's normal allocation. If not, would any team stick in a basically disposable engine in and give it full whack for the full race?
Yeah I found it as well.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14853 ... oronavirus

It seems that Ross Brawn feels empowered to be able to re write the rule book judging by what I've read in this thread about the minimum number of cars required.
I imagine that the rule book would be a normal scenario, not force majore like a country not admitting Ferrari because they come from Italy for example.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Non...
Is that a spelling correction? :)
It's a request for one!
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?
For me the race would be meaningless so why would I watch, also it's liable to be competing against another sporting event that actually has some meaning whether it be the likes of MotoGP or football.
And that's cool. I'm sure you won't be alone in that.

I enjoy the races in themselves so I would still watch. Seeing as you lose nothing from races being run even if you chose not to watch I don't understand why you would complain about it?

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by painless »

Oh, you'd watch.
Back in the day us old wrinklies turned up in their thousands for The International Trophy and The Race of Champions. I still remember 1975 and Tom Pryce winning in the snow. Counted for diddly-squat in terms of points but like beating The Stig it gave bragging rights.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by WHoff78 »

Rule Book, haha. Everyone has a rule book around cancellation policies for general scenarios – even insurance/flights etc. Clearly Coronavirus is unique and in many cases will call for exceptions from the rules and we should not expect any less from the FIA. It is not surprising that they are setting specific rules based on this situation due to the high probability it will impact a good portion of the season.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

I think with McLaren withdrawing but all the teams already there, surely the most likely outcome is a race but no specactors?
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Herb wrote:Finally found it - it was on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51727401
Ross Brawn wrote:If a team is prevented from entering a country, we can't have a race.

Not a World Championship race, anyway, because that would be unfair.
and
Ross Brawn wrote:Obviously if a team makes its own choice not to go to a race, that's their decision.

But where a team is prevented from going to a race because of a decision of the country then it's difficult to have a fair competition.
See, its if the host country stops a team competing. If a team takes steps itself, there will just be a race without them.


Also - I will definitely watch a non-championship race, as will many others.

I wonder if things like engines would be taken out of the season's normal allocation. If not, would any team stick in a basically disposable engine in and give it full whack for the full race?
Yeah I found it as well.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14853 ... oronavirus

It seems that Ross Brawn feels empowered to be able to re write the rule book judging by what I've read in this thread about the minimum number of cars required.
I imagine that the rule book would be a normal scenario, not force majore like a country not admitting Ferrari because they come from Italy for example.
Now we have McLaren not competing, let's see what happens.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Non...
Is that a spelling correction? :)
It's a request for one!
Is it correct with the hyphen? :)
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Non...
Is that a spelling correction? :)
It's a request for one!
Is it correct with the hyphen? :)
I'm saying yes, thank-you!
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Could actually be quite interesting, if handled well, no point settling for second to bring home the points if there are no points.
What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?
For me the race would be meaningless so why would I watch, also it's liable to be competing against another sporting event that actually has some meaning whether it be the likes of MotoGP or football.
And that's cool. I'm sure you won't be alone in that.

I enjoy the races in themselves so I would still watch. Seeing as you lose nothing from races being run even if you chose not to watch I don't understand why you would complain about it?
Maybe there could be better alternatives like introducing dropped rounds so everyone has to have a non scoring round for the rounds some teams have to miss, still a slight disadvantage to the team missing the round completely.

In the situation we have now if the race goes ahead it becomes a risk and reward situation, why risk the health of everyone at the circuit for a meaningless non scoring race?

The health issues are that bad that McLaren have had to pull out, how can a exhibition race be justified?
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Re: Non-Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

and surely we're now looking at a non-WDC race "behind closed doors"...

I appreciate that McLaren are withdrawing rather than being excluded but they are doing this primarily in the interests of the public and other teams, not themselves. so Non-WDC seems fair.

and the teams are already out there and the circuit ready to use, so may as well race, but it's going to be increasingly hard to justify allowing the crowds .
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

painless wrote:Oh, you'd watch.
Back in the day us old wrinklies turned up in their thousands for The International Trophy and The Race of Champions. I still remember 1975 and Tom Pryce winning in the snow. Counted for diddly-squat in terms of points but like beating The Stig it gave bragging rights.
Like I said not if there was an alternative sporting event I could watch, I like a lot of different sports.

I'm a big Hamilton fan but him winning a meaningless race, meh it counts for nothing.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: What good is the win if it doesn't appear on your career record?
Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?
For me the race would be meaningless so why would I watch, also it's liable to be competing against another sporting event that actually has some meaning whether it be the likes of MotoGP or football.
And that's cool. I'm sure you won't be alone in that.

I enjoy the races in themselves so I would still watch. Seeing as you lose nothing from races being run even if you chose not to watch I don't understand why you would complain about it?
Maybe there could be better alternatives like introducing dropped rounds so everyone has to have a non scoring round for the rounds some teams have to miss, still a slight disadvantage to the team missing the round completely.

In the situation we have now if the race goes ahead it becomes a risk and reward situation, why risk the health of everyone at the circuit for a meaningless non scoring race?

The health issues are that bad that McLaren have had to pull out, how can a exhibition race be justified?
Well it's too late now. The damage has done. May as well run the race behind close doors.

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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:Non...
Is that a spelling correction? :)
It's a request for one!
Is it correct with the hyphen? :)
I'm saying yes, thank-you!
I'm quite a good speller but grammar wouldn't be my forte. :)
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: Is watching a race better or worse than watching no race?
For me the race would be meaningless so why would I watch, also it's liable to be competing against another sporting event that actually has some meaning whether it be the likes of MotoGP or football.
And that's cool. I'm sure you won't be alone in that.

I enjoy the races in themselves so I would still watch. Seeing as you lose nothing from races being run even if you chose not to watch I don't understand why you would complain about it?
Maybe there could be better alternatives like introducing dropped rounds so everyone has to have a non scoring round for the rounds some teams have to miss, still a slight disadvantage to the team missing the round completely.

In the situation we have now if the race goes ahead it becomes a risk and reward situation, why risk the health of everyone at the circuit for a meaningless non scoring race?

The health issues are that bad that McLaren have had to pull out, how can a exhibition race be justified?
Well it's too late now. The damage has done. May as well run the race behind close doors.
Yeah that would cover the health aspect of it.
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
painless wrote:Oh, you'd watch.
Back in the day us old wrinklies turned up in their thousands for The International Trophy and The Race of Champions. I still remember 1975 and Tom Pryce winning in the snow. Counted for diddly-squat in terms of points but like beating The Stig it gave bragging rights.
Like I said not if there was an alternative sporting event I could watch, I like a lot of different sports.

I'm a big Hamilton fan but him winning a meaningless race, meh it counts for nothing.
Really? It's all about the result? So if you found out after that Hamilton had won a non-WDC race in Oz after a race-long battle with Verstappen and Russel managed to get on the podium from a last place grid slot, you wouldn't bother seeking out a re-run to watch?
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: Non-Championship Races

Post by Johnson »

It’s the first race, it’s a test race, a none championship race during the mid or late season wouldn’t be that great. The first race is completely different. I assume you watched and followed none of testing Poker?

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Re: Non-Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

BBC Reporting its cancelled....
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: Non-Championship Races

Post by DOLOMITE »

"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

pokerman
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Re: None Championship Races

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
painless wrote:Oh, you'd watch.
Back in the day us old wrinklies turned up in their thousands for The International Trophy and The Race of Champions. I still remember 1975 and Tom Pryce winning in the snow. Counted for diddly-squat in terms of points but like beating The Stig it gave bragging rights.
Like I said not if there was an alternative sporting event I could watch, I like a lot of different sports.

I'm a big Hamilton fan but him winning a meaningless race, meh it counts for nothing.
Really? It's all about the result? So if you found out after that Hamilton had won a non-WDC race in Oz after a race-long battle with Verstappen and Russel managed to get on the podium from a last place grid slot, you wouldn't bother seeking out a re-run to watch?
No it wouldn't bother me, it would be just an exhibition race and it's not adding to Hamilton's stats.
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