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...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. (Edit: as Pokerman has subsequently pointed out, I've managed to mistakenly think both Vips and Tsunoda had been dropped from the Red Bull junior programme. Both are still a part of it and are racing at a high level than Lawson and Hauger, so are closer to F1, but I would say their results to this point don't suggest they will be ready to graduate to F1 in 2021 so the point still stands!) That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Given the demolition job Gasly did on Kvyat in qualifying last year I've gone for Gasly, however I'm not too sure how the races themselves panned out for the two drivers.

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

I've heard it's money.

Same reason there drivers don't do F2.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:...typing that subject felt pretty odd!

So, the team formerly known as Toro Rosso head into 2020 with the same driver line-up that they finished 2019 with, following their mid-season shuffle that saw Alex Albon given Pierre Gasly's seat at Red Bull and Gasly demoted back down to the junior team. It was a decision that could've seen Gasly go into a tailspin and, at worst, find himself off the grid entirely in 2020. However, the Frenchman responded well to the demotion, taking his maiden podium in Brazil and ultimately earning the PF1 TMW honours over the nine races he partnered Kvyat. The Russian himself scored a podium earlier in the season in the manic German grand prix but was passed over when Red Bull opted to drop Gasly. Their TMW result suggested there wasn't a huge difference in their form and that the Russian could've counted himself a little unlucky. Since then, Albon's form with the senior team has seemed to suggest he has a bright future alongside Max Verstappen, but both Gasly and Kvyat will be driving with the knowledge that Red Bull aren't afraid to promote mid-season if a driver is underperforming. Early form could be very significant and if one is constantly outperforming the other, who knows what might happen?

Additionally, looking at the list of Red Bull junior drivers for 2020, there isn't really a driver who looks like they could be in F1 as soon as 2021. Liam Lawson is the furthest along but his debut season in F3 only generated two podiums, while their best (IMO) prospect, Dennis Hauger, wouldn't be eligible for a Superlicense until March 17th 2021 at the earliest. That takes a little pressure off of Gasly and Kvyat. The real question is whether one of the two can get the upper hand on the other. Can Gasly build on his rebound towards the end of 2019 and really make a claim for a return to the senior team or will Daniil Kvyat continue his own comeback story by seeing off his French teammate in 2020? This feels like it could be one of the closer votes so I'm particularly intrigued to see how it unfolds...

2019 Result
Pierre Gasly over Daniil Kvyat (5-4, 58%)
(There was no pre-season prediction for this one for obvious reasons!)

2020 Prediction Results
Racing Point: Sergio Perez 88% - 13% Lance Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Kimi Raikkonen 86% - 14% Antonio Giovinazzi
Haas: Kevin Magnussen 71% - 29% Romain Grosjean
Williams: George Russell 95% - 5% Nicholas Latifi

Not much faith that 2020 will be a better year for Lance Stroll as 88% of votes go in Checo Perez's favour. Oddly, the results have rounded up so that Stroll received 13% of the total, meaning the two combined for 101%. Maybe a sign that Racing Point are going to exceed expectations this year?!

Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

I've heard it's money.

Same reason there drivers don't do F2.

Still it's a curious approach to disadvantage their junior drivers?

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

pokerman wrote: Next in line are Yuri Vips who finished 4th in F3 last year and is racing in Japanese Super Formula this year, then the Honda driver Tsuonda who finished in about 9th in F3 last year and is racing in F2 this year.

Another driver seemingly determined to get into F1 is another Honda driver Matshutista who despite being called back to Japan by Honda has managed to engineer himself another season in F2.

Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

I've heard it's money.

Same reason there drivers don't do F2.

Still it's a curious approach to disadvantage their junior drivers?

I don't think they are trying to disadvantage them. They just aren't willing to pay top dollar.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote: Hm, I need to go back and see what I was looking at that had neither Vips nor Tsuonda listed. I'd assumed they had both been dropped and I'd just not seen the announcement, so that makes more sense now! Although to be fair I don't think either of them have really done anything to suggest they'd be making their way into F1 for 2021. Neither set the world alight in F3 and I can't see Tsuonda being anywhere near the F2 title fight, while Super Formula is always all over the place. As for Matshushita, I saw he was likely to return to F2 again this year even though Honda wanted him racing in Super Formula. I don't even know what he's trying to prove anymore, what is it now, his sixth year at that level? Kind of ridiculous.

I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

I've heard it's money.

Same reason there drivers don't do F2.

Still it's a curious approach to disadvantage their junior drivers?

I don't think they are trying to disadvantage them. They just aren't willing to pay top dollar.

Which is the same thing though, if you want to win in F3 then your best chance is to be with Prema, if they had paid top dollar then no doubt Vips would have had enough F1 Super License points.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: I guess it just shows the determination of the man to get into F1?

As for Vips you need to understand F3 to understand the level of his performance, Prema had the best car and their drivers finished 1-2-3, Vips finished best of the rest in 4th place.

Red Bull these days seem to have the curious approach of perhaps placing their drivers in not the out and out best teams, I guess winning the F3 title in a Prema car would not necessarily tell them that Vips would be a star of the future?

I've heard it's money.

Same reason there drivers don't do F2.

Still it's a curious approach to disadvantage their junior drivers?

I don't think they are trying to disadvantage them. They just aren't willing to pay top dollar.

Which is the same thing though, if you want to win in F3 then your best chance is to be with Prema, if they had paid top dollar then no doubt Vips would have had enough F1 Super License points.

It amounts to the same thing. I just don't think it's curious. It's pretty straight forward.

Kvyat didn't look that far of Albn when he was at Toro Rosso. And Gasly was awful at red bull, far worse than when Kvyat was there. Gasly came back to Toro Rosso and looked pretty good, but he certainly didn't destroy Kvyat. There were several races where he was a lot better, but then there were some where Kvyat was better too. Italy especially. Half a season isn't enough for this vote to be a very easy choice IMO and I think many have gone against Kvyat for his usual reputation. He had a few contacts at the end of the race, but think about the number Gasly had at Red Bull. Gasly also had a bit of a clash with Perez that in the end did't matter simply because the flag was waved too early in japan.

I personally think that overall, Kvyat will have the edge on him with both having a fresh start.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Kvyat didn't look that far of Albn when he was at Toro Rosso. And Gasly was awful at red bull, far worse than when Kvyat was there. Gasly came back to Toro Rosso and looked pretty good, but he certainly didn't destroy Kvyat. There were several races where he was a lot better, but then there were some where Kvyat was better too. Italy especially. Half a season isn't enough for this vote to be a very easy choice IMO and I think many have gone against Kvyat for his usual reputation. He had a few contacts at the end of the race, but think about the number Gasly had at Red Bull. Gasly also had a bit of a clash with Perez that in the end did't matter simply because the flag was waved too early in japan.

I personally think that overall, Kvyat will have the edge on him with both having a fresh start.

I don't agree that Gasly was far worse than Kvyat at Red Bull. The Verstappen-Ricciardo comparison puts Gasly and Kvyat roughly in the same ball park speed wise.

Personally I don't think either are particularly good.

Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

Exediron wrote:Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

Sums it up well I think, although I think that says more about Kvyat than it does Gasly.

I think I'm the only person who voted for Kvyat. And that was because I have a soft spot for him, not because he has convinced me with his driving against Gasly last year. In fact, Gasly did well to bounce from what must have been a very demoralising demotion to TR and match/beat Kvyat. If I want to be completely honest I should ask for a vote change, but I think I'll leave it there for now!

Exediron wrote:Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

I don't think the difference between them is quite as big as it seems.



Belgium, Kvyat beat Gasly by 20 nearly 20 seconds.

Italy as i've said, Kvyat was really good here until he had his technical issue. He was 15 seconds ahead before either of them pitted. Despite the fact they started very close to each other.

Singapore, gasly was convincingly better this time, although the gap looked larger because of the incident between Kimi and Kvyat. That was a racing incident, although the stewards agreed with Kvyat that he had fresh enough tyres to make that corner had kimi allowed him more room, which I think he should have done. Kimi was harvesting energy, so that pretty much showed Kvyat that he likely could have managed it, and Kimi should have been more aware.

In Russia, Kvyat again managed to beat him by a pretty comfortable margin.

In Japan, pace wise gasly was far better, but he was involved in an incident at the end which ended up not counting because of the mistimed flag. But I think him and Preez can share the blame for this.

In Mexico, Kvyat was quite handily beating Gasly and yes, he did have an incident which changed the result, but it is not his pace that was the problem. So this is one thing that to me shows that if he cuts down on the incidents a bit, his speed often is there. And it isn't like Gasly hasn't had a load of incidents this year is it?

In the USA, he managed to get by Gasly just before gasly's issue started effected him when he had to box. So pace wise, he hasn't always been way off. He admittedly did clash with Perez just moments later though.

Brazil was clearly a race where Kvyat was nowhere and Gasly was very solid indeed, but i feel this one race is sort of changing some people's views on him a bit much, he wasn't always this much better than kvyat.

The final race, we may not have been able to see gasly, but kvyat showed speed here and had a very solid performance.



I obviously should take in to account that Gasly was kicked about and shouldn't expect him instantly to be fair to compare against Kvyat. Iven if points wise, it seems that he's handily beaten Perez, i don't think that Gasly on average has any more speed than Kvyat, and they both have a fair few incidents.





If looking at both of them over all of this season, then kvyat clearly has been the better one. In the 2nd half of the season (obviously more fair to compare), I would say Gasly has been just marginally better. But pace wise, I think Kvyat has that bit more, and I don't think he's always going to be having moments like he did at the end of the USA and Mexico. Without them, I think he will just about beat Gasly next year. I am just surprised it is so one sided. In a similar way to Grosjean vs magnussen, I think it is kvyat's old reputation that is somehow making some think Gasly will beat him by a bigger margin performance wise than actually was the case last year. He had a few incidents, but so did verstappen, and other drivers that we consider very good.

But Kvyat and Albon showed some of the cleanest wheel to wheel racing in hungary that we have seen from any drivers all year. Kvyat seems a bit inconsistent, but shows as many or more signs of beign good than Gasly does IMO. To me, Kvyat is a fair better than he was a few years ago. Certainly not great, but then Gasly is not great either.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Exediron wrote:Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

I don't think the difference between them is quite as big as it seems.



Belgium, Kvyat beat Gasly by 20 nearly 20 seconds.

Italy as i've said, Kvyat was really good here until he had his technical issue. He was 15 seconds ahead before either of them pitted. Despite the fact they started very close to each other.

Singapore, gasly was convincingly better this time, although the gap looked larger because of the incident between Kimi and Kvyat. That was a racing incident, although the stewards agreed with Kvyat that he had fresh enough tyres to make that corner had kimi allowed him more room, which I think he should have done. Kimi was harvesting energy, so that pretty much showed Kvyat that he likely could have managed it, and Kimi should have been more aware.

In Russia, Kvyat again managed to beat him by a pretty comfortable margin.

In Japan, pace wise gasly was far better, but he was involved in an incident at the end which ended up not counting because of the mistimed flag. But I think him and Preez can share the blame for this.

In Mexico, Kvyat was quite handily beating Gasly and yes, he did have an incident which changed the result, but it is not his pace that was the problem. So this is one thing that to me shows that if he cuts down on the incidents a bit, his speed often is there. And it isn't like Gasly hasn't had a load of incidents this year is it?

In the USA, he managed to get by Gasly just before gasly's issue started effected him when he had to box. So pace wise, he hasn't always been way off. He admittedly did clash with Perez just moments later though.

Brazil was clearly a race where Kvyat was nowhere and Gasly was very solid indeed, but i feel this one race is sort of changing some people's views on him a bit much, he wasn't always this much better than kvyat.

The final race, we may not have been able to see gasly, but kvyat showed speed here and had a very solid performance.



I obviously should take in to account that Gasly was kicked about and shouldn't expect him instantly to be fair to compare against Kvyat. Iven if points wise, it seems that he's handily beaten Perez, i don't think that Gasly on average has any more speed than Kvyat, and they both have a fair few incidents.





If looking at both of them over all of this season, then kvyat clearly has been the better one. In the 2nd half of the season (obviously more fair to compare), I would say Gasly has been just marginally better. But pace wise, I think Kvyat has that bit more, and I don't think he's always going to be having moments like he did at the end of the USA and Mexico. Without them, I think he will just about beat Gasly next year. I am just surprised it is so one sided. In a similar way to Grosjean vs magnussen, I think it is kvyat's old reputation that is somehow making some think Gasly will beat him by a bigger margin performance wise than actually was the case last year. He had a few incidents, but so did verstappen, and other drivers that we consider very good.

But Kvyat and Albon showed some of the cleanest wheel to wheel racing in hungary that we have seen from any drivers all year. Kvyat seems a bit inconsistent, but shows as many or more signs of beign good than Gasly does IMO. To me, Kvyat is a fair better than he was a few years ago. Certainly not great, but then Gasly is not great either.

So it's 3/3 with two draws according to your analysis with two of Kvyat's "victories" being in the first two races after Gasly came back.

Surely you would expect Gasly to be better in 2020 having been in the car from the start seeing as we usually see drivers who change mid season performing poorly?

There's nothing in what you have written above that would support the argument of Kvyat being better than Gasly.

mikeyg123 wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Exediron wrote:Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

I don't think the difference between them is quite as big as it seems.



Belgium, Kvyat beat Gasly by 20 nearly 20 seconds.

Italy as i've said, Kvyat was really good here until he had his technical issue. He was 15 seconds ahead before either of them pitted. Despite the fact they started very close to each other.

Singapore, gasly was convincingly better this time, although the gap looked larger because of the incident between Kimi and Kvyat. That was a racing incident, although the stewards agreed with Kvyat that he had fresh enough tyres to make that corner had kimi allowed him more room, which I think he should have done. Kimi was harvesting energy, so that pretty much showed Kvyat that he likely could have managed it, and Kimi should have been more aware.

In Russia, Kvyat again managed to beat him by a pretty comfortable margin.

In Japan, pace wise gasly was far better, but he was involved in an incident at the end which ended up not counting because of the mistimed flag. But I think him and Preez can share the blame for this.

In Mexico, Kvyat was quite handily beating Gasly and yes, he did have an incident which changed the result, but it is not his pace that was the problem. So this is one thing that to me shows that if he cuts down on the incidents a bit, his speed often is there. And it isn't like Gasly hasn't had a load of incidents this year is it?

In the USA, he managed to get by Gasly just before gasly's issue started effected him when he had to box. So pace wise, he hasn't always been way off. He admittedly did clash with Perez just moments later though.

Brazil was clearly a race where Kvyat was nowhere and Gasly was very solid indeed, but i feel this one race is sort of changing some people's views on him a bit much, he wasn't always this much better than kvyat.

The final race, we may not have been able to see gasly, but kvyat showed speed here and had a very solid performance.



I obviously should take in to account that Gasly was kicked about and shouldn't expect him instantly to be fair to compare against Kvyat. Iven if points wise, it seems that he's handily beaten Perez, i don't think that Gasly on average has any more speed than Kvyat, and they both have a fair few incidents.





If looking at both of them over all of this season, then kvyat clearly has been the better one. In the 2nd half of the season (obviously more fair to compare), I would say Gasly has been just marginally better. But pace wise, I think Kvyat has that bit more, and I don't think he's always going to be having moments like he did at the end of the USA and Mexico. Without them, I think he will just about beat Gasly next year. I am just surprised it is so one sided. In a similar way to Grosjean vs magnussen, I think it is kvyat's old reputation that is somehow making some think Gasly will beat him by a bigger margin performance wise than actually was the case last year. He had a few incidents, but so did verstappen, and other drivers that we consider very good.

But Kvyat and Albon showed some of the cleanest wheel to wheel racing in hungary that we have seen from any drivers all year. Kvyat seems a bit inconsistent, but shows as many or more signs of beign good than Gasly does IMO. To me, Kvyat is a fair better than he was a few years ago. Certainly not great, but then Gasly is not great either.

So it's 3/3 with two draws according to your analysis with two of Kvyat's "victories" being in the first two races after Gasly came back.

Surely you would expect Gasly to be better in 2020 having been in the car from the start seeing as we usually see drivers who change mid season performing poorly?

There's nothing in what you have written above that would support the argument of Kvyat being better than Gasly.

I am also including the fact that kvyat's pace looked quick, despite making a mistake at the end of the united states GP, and he looked very good in the final race too. Overall this year, Kvyat has fewer big mistakes than Gasly did and there is no guarantee gasly won't make these sorts of mistakes this year. I don't think there is much of a difference between the two, so i took some time to decide myself, but what i said was i don't understand how it is so one sided.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

Exediron wrote:Gasly ought to win it pretty easily. He was already handily beating Kvyat by the end of 2019, and I don't see any reason that should change going forward. He's no match for Max, but he seems to be better than Kvyat in a midfield car.

I don't think the difference between them is quite as big as it seems.



Belgium, Kvyat beat Gasly by 20 nearly 20 seconds.

Italy as i've said, Kvyat was really good here until he had his technical issue. He was 15 seconds ahead before either of them pitted. Despite the fact they started very close to each other.

Singapore, gasly was convincingly better this time, although the gap looked larger because of the incident between Kimi and Kvyat. That was a racing incident, although the stewards agreed with Kvyat that he had fresh enough tyres to make that corner had kimi allowed him more room, which I think he should have done. Kimi was harvesting energy, so that pretty much showed Kvyat that he likely could have managed it, and Kimi should have been more aware.

In Russia, Kvyat again managed to beat him by a pretty comfortable margin.

In Japan, pace wise gasly was far better, but he was involved in an incident at the end which ended up not counting because of the mistimed flag. But I think him and Preez can share the blame for this.

In Mexico, Kvyat was quite handily beating Gasly and yes, he did have an incident which changed the result, but it is not his pace that was the problem. So this is one thing that to me shows that if he cuts down on the incidents a bit, his speed often is there. And it isn't like Gasly hasn't had a load of incidents this year is it?

In the USA, he managed to get by Gasly just before gasly's issue started effected him when he had to box. So pace wise, he hasn't always been way off. He admittedly did clash with Perez just moments later though.

Brazil was clearly a race where Kvyat was nowhere and Gasly was very solid indeed, but i feel this one race is sort of changing some people's views on him a bit much, he wasn't always this much better than kvyat.

The final race, we may not have been able to see gasly, but kvyat showed speed here and had a very solid performance.



I obviously should take in to account that Gasly was kicked about and shouldn't expect him instantly to be fair to compare against Kvyat. Iven if points wise, it seems that he's handily beaten Perez, i don't think that Gasly on average has any more speed than Kvyat, and they both have a fair few incidents.





If looking at both of them over all of this season, then kvyat clearly has been the better one. In the 2nd half of the season (obviously more fair to compare), I would say Gasly has been just marginally better. But pace wise, I think Kvyat has that bit more, and I don't think he's always going to be having moments like he did at the end of the USA and Mexico. Without them, I think he will just about beat Gasly next year. I am just surprised it is so one sided. In a similar way to Grosjean vs magnussen, I think it is kvyat's old reputation that is somehow making some think Gasly will beat him by a bigger margin performance wise than actually was the case last year. He had a few incidents, but so did verstappen, and other drivers that we consider very good.

But Kvyat and Albon showed some of the cleanest wheel to wheel racing in hungary that we have seen from any drivers all year. Kvyat seems a bit inconsistent, but shows as many or more signs of beign good than Gasly does IMO. To me, Kvyat is a fair better than he was a few years ago. Certainly not great, but then Gasly is not great either.

So it's 3/3 with two draws according to your analysis with two of Kvyat's "victories" being in the first two races after Gasly came back.

Surely you would expect Gasly to be better in 2020 having been in the car from the start seeing as we usually see drivers who change mid season performing poorly?

There's nothing in what you have written above that would support the argument of Kvyat being better than Gasly.

I am also including the fact that kvyat's pace looked quick, despite making a mistake at the end of the united states GP, and he looked very good in the final race too. Overall this year, Kvyat has fewer big mistakes than Gasly did and there is no guarantee gasly won't make these sorts of mistakes this year. I don't think there is much of a difference between the two, so i took some time to decide myself, but what i said was i don't understand how it is so one sided.

It's one sided because Gasly was already a bit better and anyone reasonable would expect him to do even better in a car he isn't jumping in to mid season.