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Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

Not a fan of the honours system but when you look at what other sportspeople have received them for then Hamilton is deserving of one. My guess is that he’ll get one once retired.

Also surprised to see that only four of England’s World Cup winning cricketers got honours.

I think he will receive the award once he has retired and I also think that's an appropriate time to receive the award.

The fact he currently shares the same honour as Susie Wolff and is out ranked by Claire Williams shows how absurd the situation has become. I can only assume they are waiting for him to retire which in itself is odd seeing as other sports people have received honours whilst being active - Sir Andy Murray, Sir Mo Farrah etc.

JN23 wrote:Not a fan of the honours system but when you look at what other sportspeople have received them for then Hamilton is deserving of one. My guess is that he’ll get one once retired.

Exactly what I was thinking. Andy Murray having a knighthood and Hamilton not is laughable in my opinion.

Sportspeople generally get these awards far too easily; win a couple of gold medals as an Olympian and it's pretty much guaranteed. If you ask me it should go to those who are genuinely among the very greatest of all time in their chosen discipline or whose achievements go beyond merely being very good, for instance Jackie Stewart meets the latter criteria for his safety initiatives (which have also translated into road cars and saved countless lives) as well as his three world championships.

Here I think Lewis ticks this box as well; the barriers he faced as a black boy from a working class background to rise to the top of what is a rich white man's sport should not be understated and I have heard first hand accounts of some appalling racist abuse he and his father were subjected to when he was karting from the embittered parents of the kids he was beating. His progress beyond karting owes much to him having the courage and self-confidence as a child to ask Ron Dennis for a drive, not to mention then having the talent to repay McLaren's faith in him. I despair when hearing people claim that he had it easy or that the McLaren drive was some sort of gift, he 100% earned it and you can be sure that if his performance had dropped at any point during his rise through the lower formulae then McLaren would have dropped him like a stone.

Lewis' career should be an inspirational one to many people, a demonstration of how if you have the talent then with enough hard work, determination and self-belief you can achieve your goals regardless of socioeconomic or ethnic barriers. This aspect of Lewis' story is perhaps not that widely appreciated because he doesn't speak of it much and has tended to let his talent do the talking. And when he has tried to talk about his background he's not expressed himself particularly well (calling Stevenage "the slums" was not well received), which brings me on to probably the key reason he doesn't get the same level of recognition as other sportspeople: he has very little natural charisma and still looks uncomfortable on camera which tends to result in poor interviews. This all means he has very limited appeal to people who don't actually watch him in action.

Anyway, I think he'll get one once he announces his retirement. But consistency dictates that he should have had one already.

You think winning a couple of gold medals is easy?

I think I would rather like seeing him on the grid as Sir Lewis. I'm not a fan of his, and I still think that first and foremost F1 is about the car and team, but what he achieved is clear for all to see.
And as far as I'm concerned, he equalled Schumacher's title tally this year, so equalling or surpassing Schumacher's wins tally with or without the 1997 wins, now would be a good time.

The next round of honours is this coming summer, so it's up to UK citizens to put his name forward now. What are you waiting for?

Asphalt_World wrote:Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

To be fair though Iain Duncan Smith is the only Tory leader since Thatcher, other than Johnson, who didn't fail to win an election.

(Because he was so useless his party kicked him out before letting him face an election)

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

To be fair though Iain Duncan Smith is the only Tory leader since Thatcher, other than Johnson, who didn't fail to win an election.

I think you're forgetting about Theresa May, who also won an election (in 2017).

Basically you need some from the top echelons of British motor racing (a few who delight in referring to Ham by his racially charged nickname), usually found strutting around the BRDC clubhouse come the British GP; and some from the great and good of society to put you forward.
It also helps if you have spent a few decades entertaining Kings and Princes and others from the upper echelons of society at your Scottish manor, and just going to the same public schools as their children will certainly help you avoid a lowly MBE or OBE and get you straight into the honours system at CBE level.

The way the system works I would expect Coultard MBE to get a higher honour before Hamilton would even be considered.

Fiki wrote:

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

To be fair though Iain Duncan Smith is the only Tory leader since Thatcher, other than Johnson, who didn't fail to win an election.

I think you're forgetting about Theresa May, who also won an election (in 2017).

It was a hung parliament, no one won!

But Asphalt makes a good point, the award criteria is mostly down to what suits the political powers that be, and they have obviously decided they won't get any political benefit for giving Hamilton one. Murray got one for winning Wimbledon and breaking a 70 year duck, it had nothing to do with his achievement.

obviously i have heard about people being "knighted" other than the "sir" what does the title bring ? honestly curious, because i never thought about it before

pc27b wrote:obviously i have heard about people being "knighted" other than the "sir" what does the title bring ? honestly curious, because i never thought about it before

It will mean he can move two rows forward and a slot to the side of his qualifying position.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

pc27b wrote:obviously i have heard about people being "knighted" other than the "sir" what does the title bring ? honestly curious, because i never thought about it before

It will mean he can move two rows forward and a slot to the side of his qualifying position.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

pc27b wrote:obviously i have heard about people being "knighted" other than the "sir" what does the title bring ? honestly curious, because i never thought about it before

It will mean he can move two rows forward and a slot to the side of his qualifying position.

Asphalt_World wrote:Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

Or worse, the long past its sell by date institution handing out the honors

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Asphalt_World wrote:Following the knighthood awarded to Iain Duncan Smith, this shows how becoming a knight has become completely devalued and Lewis would probably happy to not be associated with such a person!

Personally, I would turn the award down.

To be fair though Iain Duncan Smith is the only Tory leader since Thatcher, other than Johnson, who didn't fail to win an election.

(Because he was so useless his party kicked him out before letting him face an election)

The very fact he introduced Universal Credit and still stands by it, is reason enough for him to never be given any award whatsoever. He is every stereotype the wealthy MP's in the conservative party stand for. Hamilton should decline any knighthood offered.

Ruste13 wrote:You think winning a couple of gold medals is easy?

Compared to what Hamilton has done over his career, yes.

Lewis will undoutedly be awarded a knighthood when he retires. Yes it's absurd that Andy Murray has one for a meagre 3 Grand slam titles while he's still playing. But we British like our heroes understated. The prestigious annual BBC Sports Personality of the Year award has been won 3 times by Murray, twice by Damon Hill, twice by Mansell and only once by Hamilton.

Murray is the quiet family man, modest and publicity averse to a fault. Both Hill and Mansell came across as down-to-earth family men too. Hamilton is the complete opposite, with his media jet-set lifestyle, bling, tattoos and confident (although not arrogant) personality. He looks like he's had it easy - hand-picked for a path to greatness by Ron Dennis and all he's had to do was perform. Murray by contrast has had to work and train like a Trojan all his life to compete against some arguably more talented opponents. Of course this picture is simplistic - Hamilton has doubtless worked as hard as Murray to achieve the peak he has, and his background is every bit as humble.

Also, let's face it F1 has been predictable for the past 5 years - encompassing 4 of Hamilton's titles, and, with the best car, many people think all he's had to do is show up and drive to win his titles. Hill and Mansell like Murray had huge struggles against adversity before winning their single titles, and never enjoyed a long period of team dominance like Hamilton has.

A further point is that honours are usually awarded as much for charitable work as for success. Hamilton has infact set up a foundation to channel money to good causes https://www.totalgiving.co.uk/charity/l ... foundation . Maybe he needs to raise its profile?

tim3003 wrote:Lewis will undoutedly be awarded a knighthood when he retires. Yes it's absurd that Andy Murray has one for a meagre 3 Grand slam titles while he's still playing. But we British like our heroes understated. The prestigious annual BBC Sports Personality of the Year award has been won 3 times by Murray, twice by Damon Hill, twice by Mansell and only once by Hamilton.

Murray is the quiet family man, modest and publicity averse to a fault. Both Hill and Mansell came across as down-to-earth family men too. Hamilton is the complete opposite, with his media jet-set lifestyle, bling, tattoos and confident (although not arrogant) personality. He looks like he's had it easy - hand-picked for a path to greatness by Ron Dennis and all he's had to do was perform. Murray by contrast has had to work and train like a Trojan all his life to compete against some arguably more talented opponents. Of course this picture is simplistic - Hamilton has doubtless worked as hard as Murray to achieve the peak he has, and his background is every bit as humble.

Also, let's face it F1 has been predictable for the past 5 years - encompassing 4 of Hamilton's titles, and, with the best car, many people think all he's had to do is show up and drive to win his titles. Hill and Mansell like Murray had huge struggles against adversity before winning their single titles, and never enjoyed a long period of team dominance like Hamilton has.

A further point is that honours are usually awarded as much for charitable work as for success. Hamilton has infact set up a foundation to channel money to good causes https://www.totalgiving.co.uk/charity/l ... foundation . Maybe he needs to raise its profile?

I think that charity is pretty much defunct. He tends to keep a low profile with his other charities. Definitely Children of Africa, Unicef ambassador, Honeypot, GOSH, Harlem Childrens Zone, Starlight, etc. He's also involved in the Global Teacher of the Year organisation and was First Ambassador for the Prince Harry Invictus Games.

If you remember there was some outcry a few years back when he retained his own image rights. But if you look at many of the pics where he is involved in charitable work he has handed the copyright to the charity in question. Basically the news outlets has to pay them if they want to publish said pics.

Personally I think that for sportspeople, it should be considered only once they are retired. This is merely a personal quirk of mine; it feels weird to me to hear an active sports person referred to as Sir Someone.
In terms of achievements? Murray finally broke the British Wimbledon curse (besides winning the nations hearts with his post-final defeat emotions) and Farah achieved a double-double at distances that had recently been dominated by Kenya/ Ethopia.
Britain has had a relatively high degree of success in F1 but Hamilton has raised that success to a new level (and is on the verge of becoming the most successful F1 driver of all time). I think that it is simply a matter of time before a knighthood is offered.

Edit: btw, Happy New Year all!

Don't care much about knighthoods, but I think he'll get it after he retires.

I was just about to start a thread on the very same topic. Nice to see I'm not the only one on this page, The queen must be one of Shawn on the F1 wird's followers

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Lewis Hamilton's lack of a knighthood, after becoming the second most successful F1 driver of all time, with twice as many F1 titles as the next most successful British F1 driver has caused a stir in the British Motorsport press, with some in the motorsport community feeling that it's a sleight against the sport.

The most common arguments for him not receiving the knighthood yet generally consist of:

He hasn't retired yet - however many sports people received knighthoods while still active, including some this year.
He shouldn't get it until he's beaten the most successful (ie eclipsed Schumacher) - however Sir Andy Murray received on (also while active) and he's not even the best of his generation in tennis, and no where close to being a greatest of all time candidate.
He shouldn't receive it because he doesn't pay tax - however he's one of the top 5000 tax payers to the British government.

So the question beckons - when do people think will he receive it? Assuming he ever gets it... and why do people think he is still yet to.

j man wrote:

JN23 wrote:Not a fan of the honours system but when you look at what other sportspeople have received them for then Hamilton is deserving of one. My guess is that he’ll get one once retired.

Exactly what I was thinking. Andy Murray having a knighthood and Hamilton not is laughable in my opinion.

Sportspeople generally get these awards far too easily; win a couple of gold medals as an Olympian and it's pretty much guaranteed. If you ask me it should go to those who are genuinely among the very greatest of all time in their chosen discipline or whose achievements go beyond merely being very good, for instance Jackie Stewart meets the latter criteria for his safety initiatives (which have also translated into road cars and saved countless lives) as well as his three world championships.

Here I think Lewis ticks this box as well; the barriers he faced as a black boy from a working class background to rise to the top of what is a rich white man's sport should not be understated and I have heard first hand accounts of some appalling racist abuse he and his father were subjected to when he was karting from the embittered parents of the kids he was beating. His progress beyond karting owes much to him having the courage and self-confidence as a child to ask Ron Dennis for a drive, not to mention then having the talent to repay McLaren's faith in him. I despair when hearing people claim that he had it easy or that the McLaren drive was some sort of gift, he 100% earned it and you can be sure that if his performance had dropped at any point during his rise through the lower formulae then McLaren would have dropped him like a stone.

Lewis' career should be an inspirational one to many people, a demonstration of how if you have the talent then with enough hard work, determination and self-belief you can achieve your goals regardless of socioeconomic or ethnic barriers. This aspect of Lewis' story is perhaps not that widely appreciated because he doesn't speak of it much and has tended to let his talent do the talking. And when he has tried to talk about his background he's not expressed himself particularly well (calling Stevenage "the slums" was not well received), which brings me on to probably the key reason he doesn't get the same level of recognition as other sportspeople: he has very little natural charisma and still looks uncomfortable on camera which tends to result in poor interviews. This all means he has very limited appeal to people who don't actually watch him in action.

Anyway, I think he'll get one once he announces his retirement. But consistency dictates that he should have had one already.

Coudnt have said it better myself. Lewis is one of the very few role models I would like to see my sons emulate, Outside of Adrian Newey the only one in the world of sports,

tootsie323 wrote:Edit: btw, Happy New Year all!

No digressing please, Sir Tootsie!

Happy New Year!

j man wrote: probably the key reason he doesn't get the same level of recognition as other sportspeople: he has very little natural charisma and still looks uncomfortable on camera which tends to result in poor interviews. This all means he has very limited appeal to people who don't actually watch him in action.

It was often said that Schumacher had no charisma compared to Senna, but Hamilton? I suggest you ask Bernie Ecclestone that question.. If Hamilton comes across as uncertain in non-F1 interviews I think it's because he is uncertain of how to present himself. His playboy socialite side is not a viewer winner so what does that leave? Maybe he tries too hard to be humble and stress his ordinary roots.

There's a crude old racial stereotype: 'ni**** rich'. Unfortunately Hamilton is either unaware of it, or he doesn't feel he needs to do anything to counter the impression that he fits it. I'd guess there are people who think he does, and hold it against him. (And I don't mean me, so no insults please).

tim3003 wrote:

j man wrote: probably the key reason he doesn't get the same level of recognition as other sportspeople: he has very little natural charisma and still looks uncomfortable on camera which tends to result in poor interviews. This all means he has very limited appeal to people who don't actually watch him in action.

It was often said that Schumacher had no charisma compared to Senna, but Hamilton? I suggest you ask Bernie Ecclestone that question.. If Hamilton comes across as uncertain in non-F1 interviews I think it's because he is uncertain of how to present himself. His playboy socialite side is not a viewer winner so what does that leave? Maybe he tries too hard to be humble and stress his ordinary roots.

There's a crude old racial stereotype: 'ni**** rich'. Unfortunately Hamilton is either unaware of it, or he doesn't feel he needs to do anything to counter the impression that he fits it. I'd guess there are people who think he does, and hold it against him. (And I don't mean me, so no insults please).

TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

I think he’ll get it after WDC No 8, if he wins it, otherwise when he retires.

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

Agreed on both counts. Successful sports stars can be pretty dull and unimaginative characters. These traits often go with the single-minded focus and nervelessness under pressure needed to get to the top. Hamilton is unusual in that he has a life and public persona outside F1 - he even poses as a model for advertising photos, so how he can be said to lack charisma is beyond me..

I'd imagine the fact that Andy Murray plays tennis, a sport long associated with the upper class with Wimbledon being the perfect place for royalty and MP's to show their face, probably went a long way to sorting him out a knighthood.

F1 may be surrounded by millions and millions of pounds, but it's not got the same background as Tennis.

Before anyone asks, I know tennis is for all, but I'm sure you know what I mean about the image it presents.

Asphalt_World wrote:I'd imagine the fact that Andy Murray plays tennis, a sport long associated with the upper class with Wimbledon being the perfect place for royalty and MP's to show their face, probably went a long way to sorting him out a knighthood.

F1 may be surrounded by millions and millions of pounds, but it's not got the same background as Tennis.

Before anyone asks, I know tennis is for all, but I'm sure you know what I mean about the image it presents.

Yes, I know what you mean and I guess you might be right. I know they don't like bumping people up through the ranks so after receiving his MBE I do think they are waiting until he either retires, or at least matches Schumacher to knight him.

Asphalt_World wrote:I'd imagine the fact that Andy Murray plays tennis, a sport long associated with the upper class with Wimbledon being the perfect place for royalty and MP's to show their face, probably went a long way to sorting him out a knighthood.

F1 may be surrounded by millions and millions of pounds, but it's not got the same background as Tennis.

Before anyone asks, I know tennis is for all, but I'm sure you know what I mean about the image it presents.

Same with Stewart. He has been close friends with various royals for decades. Regular invites to Buck House and Sandringham, close friends with Anne, gets presents from the Queen; including a puppy. And until recently they both attended each others shooting parties. And he had to wait 30 years into their friendship before he got his.

Canada has the Lou Marsh Trophy for Canadian Athlete of the year. In 1997 Jacques Villeneuve was awarded this trophy as a result of him winning the Formula One World Driver's Championship. For the selection committee, this was a very difficult choice because Larry Walker had an MVP year in professional baseball.

When Walker was informed of the decision, he commented " I lost to a car".

I hold the same opinion because (especially in Formula One) the outcome is largely determined by the car and team. I hold all drivers in great respect, they are courageous and talented young men. But their accomplishments will always be shrouded in the simple act that without a dominant car, they would not have succeeded.

tim3003 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

Agreed on both counts. Successful sports stars can be pretty dull and unimaginative characters. These traits often go with the single-minded focus and nervelessness under pressure needed to get to the top. Hamilton is unusual in that he has a life and public persona outside F1 - he even poses as a model for advertising photos, so how he can be said to lack charisma is beyond me..

To me, lacking charisma does not necessarily imply a shy or introverted character. Charisma is about being able to inspire and connect with a crowd and Lewis is routinely poor at this. He fluffs his sentences, often makes poor word choices and relies heavily on bland, vacuous clichés ("Still we rise, guys"). Now this doesn't bother me personally as his driving does plenty of talking for him, but my point was that those who don't regularly tune in to watch all the races are not going to find Lewis a particularly inspiring or engaging character.

I cannot think of many people I know who don't like motorsport but do like Lewis Hamilton. Button, Hill and Mansell never had this problem.

j man wrote:

tim3003 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

Agreed on both counts. Successful sports stars can be pretty dull and unimaginative characters. These traits often go with the single-minded focus and nervelessness under pressure needed to get to the top. Hamilton is unusual in that he has a life and public persona outside F1 - he even poses as a model for advertising photos, so how he can be said to lack charisma is beyond me..

To me, lacking charisma does not necessarily imply a shy or introverted character. Charisma is about being able to inspire and connect with a crowd and Lewis is routinely poor at this. He fluffs his sentences, often makes poor word choices and relies heavily on bland, vacuous clichés ("Still we rise, guys"). Now this doesn't bother me personally as his driving does plenty of talking for him, but my point was that those who don't regularly tune in to watch all the races are not going to find Lewis a particularly inspiring or engaging character.

I cannot think of many people I know who don't like motorsport but do like Lewis Hamilton. Button, Hill and Mansell never had this problem.

We just need to compare two current Formula One drivers and ask ourselves, who gives the better interview? Hamilton or Norris?

j man wrote: Charisma is about being able to inspire and connect with a crowd and Lewis is routinely poor at this.

So being willing and able to body-surf into the crowd at Silverstone shows how he's unable to connect with a crowd does it??

Blinky McSquinty wrote:

j man wrote:

tim3003 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

Agreed on both counts. Successful sports stars can be pretty dull and unimaginative characters. These traits often go with the single-minded focus and nervelessness under pressure needed to get to the top. Hamilton is unusual in that he has a life and public persona outside F1 - he even poses as a model for advertising photos, so how he can be said to lack charisma is beyond me..

To me, lacking charisma does not necessarily imply a shy or introverted character. Charisma is about being able to inspire and connect with a crowd and Lewis is routinely poor at this. He fluffs his sentences, often makes poor word choices and relies heavily on bland, vacuous clichés ("Still we rise, guys"). Now this doesn't bother me personally as his driving does plenty of talking for him, but my point was that those who don't regularly tune in to watch all the races are not going to find Lewis a particularly inspiring or engaging character.

I cannot think of many people I know who don't like motorsport but do like Lewis Hamilton. Button, Hill and Mansell never had this problem.

We just need to compare two current Formula One drivers and ask ourselves, who gives the better interview? Hamilton or Norris?

The answer is Norris for most I assume. But that doesn’t mean Hamilton lacks charisma.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:

j man wrote:

tim3003 wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Andy Murray is hardly overflowing with charisma and it hasn't seemed to hold him back.

Personally I'd rather sportsmen not be honoured at all until retirement but seeing as they are Hamilton's MBE is a huge outlier given that he could argue he is Britain's most successful ever sportsman in a major, global sport.

Agreed on both counts. Successful sports stars can be pretty dull and unimaginative characters. These traits often go with the single-minded focus and nervelessness under pressure needed to get to the top. Hamilton is unusual in that he has a life and public persona outside F1 - he even poses as a model for advertising photos, so how he can be said to lack charisma is beyond me..

To me, lacking charisma does not necessarily imply a shy or introverted character. Charisma is about being able to inspire and connect with a crowd and Lewis is routinely poor at this. He fluffs his sentences, often makes poor word choices and relies heavily on bland, vacuous clichés ("Still we rise, guys"). Now this doesn't bother me personally as his driving does plenty of talking for him, but my point was that those who don't regularly tune in to watch all the races are not going to find Lewis a particularly inspiring or engaging character.

I cannot think of many people I know who don't like motorsport but do like Lewis Hamilton. Button, Hill and Mansell never had this problem.

We just need to compare two current Formula One drivers and ask ourselves, who gives the better interview? Hamilton or Norris?

Indeed what is there to dislike about Norris but the way to a knighthood is too act like a clown half of the time?

Maybe Hamilton acts too serious in comparison but them again he's from a different background to Norris, I'm not looking to say that someone from a privileged background would lack ambition but Hamilton's background was very much perform or you get dropped in his formative years, this is serious business.

https://twitter.com/mercedesamgf1/statu ... 0258634753

Silverstone crowd obviously; and not forgetting Monza.