Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

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Assuming Hamilton wins in 2020 and leave Mercedes, who would you rather win in 2021?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:12 pm

Hamilton driving for another team.
26
76%
Mercedes with a driver who isn't Hamilton
8
24%
 
Total votes: 34

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Alienturnedhuman
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Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

We've had 6 years of Mercedes WDCs, with Hamilton winning 5 of them. It's fair to say that the monotony of this result is frustrating a lot of the fans of the sport who want to see something different. This made me wonder which part of that monotony frustrates people the most, so I have a hypothetical question to ask.

Suppose Hamilton and Mercedes win the 2020 WDC / WCC double. Hamilton then moves to another team. Which outcome would you prefer for the WDC? Hamilton winning in the other team, or Mercedes winning the WDC with one of his replacements?

There are few key important points when answering this poll. The team Hamilton moves to is deliberately undefined. While he will probably move to Ferrari, that's not part of this poll. So answering "Hamilton because he'd move to Ferrari and I'm a Ferrari fan" is not the point of the poll, for the purposes of this poll you don't know what other team he's moved to. The same goes for the driver who has replaced him, you don't know which driver replaced him, and there is no "most likely candidates"

The point of the poll is if only half of the monotony continues, would you rather a "Not Hamilton" Mercedes driver won in 2021, or Hamilton driving for "Not Mercedes"

mikeyg123
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Hamilton in a different car because of what that achievement would mean.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Hamilton with another team for sure. Although another driver with another team would be my overall preference.

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MistaVega23
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by MistaVega23 »

Hamilton in a Ferrari.
#KeepFightingMichael

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Invade
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Invade »

The forum feels slightly different now with some old regulars leaving. I wonder if that had anything to do with Hamilton and Mercedes being an excessively dominant force.

Anyway...

It would be ideal if Ricciardo moved to Mercedes and won a WDC, but I'd also be keen on Hamilton winning one with Ferrari.

I think it's about time the likes of Verstappen and Ricciardo had a chance in a Championship contending car. I believe Max will get that next year but Daniel is still bang out of luck. Hopefully he gets his chance soon enough, though I think Mercedes are more likely to sign Max than Dan.

I would get some sort of sick enjoyment however if Vettel moved to Mercedes and was fighting for his life against Bottas with Hamilton doing the same old same old - winning a title at Ferrari, which is then suddenly heralded as "the car to have".

Hohoo.
Last edited by Invade on Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shoot999
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by shoot999 »

Hamilton with another car. So when ???? eventually takes the crown it's because he has taken the crown from arguably the best drive of his generation; not because he inherited the mighty Mercedes.

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Invade
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Invade »

I wouldn't mind seeing Hamilton win the WDC in the Williams and then see which people find an excuse to place some other driver as the Driver of the Year.

In 2014 it was Alonso.

In 2015 it was Vettel.

In 2016 it was Ricciardo.

In 2017 it was Vettel.

In 2018 it was Alonso.

In 2019 it was Verstappen.

But Hamilton winning in the almighty Williams might FINALLY bag him some kudos.

(PS, this is just in jest and directed against quite the minority - Hamilton has won the average vote for 2019 according to most pundits and website votes and so on, with Verstappen eating a little bit into that dominant viewpoint. Even F1 Hot or Not settled for Hamilton in the end of season vote despite him being thrashed by Verstappen based on the race to race voting.)

:twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

shoot999 wrote:Hamilton with another car. So when ???? eventually takes the crown it's because he has taken the crown from arguably the best drive of his generation; not because he inherited the mighty Mercedes.
I don't know. I think when Alonso dethroned Schumacher, it was looked on as special because Schumacher and Ferrari were the ultimate force. Dethroning a Hamilton in a Ferrari wouldn't be as spectacular, considering you're not beating both the dominating team and driver.

I voted a Non Hamilton Merc WDC. Removing any driver bias, I get more bored of a winning driver than a winning team, because I am ultimately somewhat indifferent between which team tops the table.
Last edited by Schumacher forever#1 on Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Fiki »

Another driver in the Mercedes. But in reality, I hope it would be a fight between Leclerc in the Ferrari and Verstappen in the Red Bull. And yet, seeing Hamilton winning it in the Haas would really make people reconsider Schumacher's career!
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

I'll NEVER understand this "boredom" factor simply because one guy & one team are winning consistently. And while that has been the subject of conversations many times, people are reading into the final results come the end of seasons as if looking through Wikipedia exclusively.

When Red Bull and Vettel had their 4-year run many people complained and raised this point, and it had no validity then either. Let's break it down as follows…

2010… The entire season was contested between several teams to the point the championship came down to the very last race where Alonso could have very well won his 3rd championship but couldn't find or make his way past Petrov. Leading up to that however, the inter-team war being waged between Vettel and Webber was fireworks and added yet another layer of excitement and complexity to the season and how it unfolded. Boring??!?!? Not one bit.

2011… This season was a walk in the park for Vettel but even still it provided exciting moments like Button fighting all the way back from the back of the grid, not once, but TWICE to come right up to Vettel and apply such intense pressure he forced Vettel into a rare error while leading the race and took what is one of the most improbable wins int he history of the sport, and certainly Button's greatest win of his entire life! It was also the season we lost the Kubica we always anticipated could emerge as a force in F1 so that was a sub plot before the season started. Mclaren was initially right there challenging Reb Bull until RBR further refined their car reaching the midway point of the season which gave them the edge, and Vettel and Red Bull took control and never allowed themselves to lose focus and continued to work hard to the end of the season. However, Hamilton and McLaren squeaked out some Pole Positions from out no nowhere and it left everyone shocked more often than not, and the panic in China where Lewis made it out of the pits with just over 30 seconds to go due to an exhaust issue and he qualified 3rd in a McLaren that didn't even have the rear engine cowl installed, and then went on to win the race. Lewis' personal life being turned on its head when his then girlfriend Nicole Sherzinger shattered his world when she broke up with him cased him to go into the only slump in his career and he wasn't able to do for the rest of the season after that.

2012… is the season where Hamilton would have won the championship had McLaren not made so many mistakes that cost him wins and points, and Vettel was there to pick up the scraps in those races and THAT is what gave him the championship in the end, so that tells you how closely contested the season was, and in the End Alonso was so close yet again, with Lewis finishing third. Raikkonen and Lotus were unexpectedly highly competitive throughout the season, and Perez's crash at Monaco led to how compact cars have become since, because Sauber's engineers saw how the impact squeezed everything closer together and a new standard was born. And less we forget about Maldonado's brilliant win with Williams, and Michael's astonishing Pole lap at Monacowhich was thwarted by a pointless penalty which likely cost him one last win.

2013… This was the most dominant season for Red Bull, but only one of their drivers was able to best the entire field in dominant fashion. Even still, 2013 provided plenty of action and excitement. Alonso's win was outstanding, but his win in Spain… I don't think anything needs to be said about how amazing that race was. There were a few other moments, but Spain was the definite standout of the year and it ranks among the most incredible races and moments for Alonso.

While Mercedes have had a bit of an easier time these past 6 seasons, that only applies for the Constructor's title. During their first 4 WCC seasons, the absolute WAR between Rosberg and Hamilton was the most intense battle between teammates since Prost & Senna, yet somehow that gets lost in the shuffle with all the complaining being done these days, but it certainly happened and it added to the dynamic of those 4 seasons. The Driver's championship has been intense since 2014 and contrary to popular belief, it hasn't been a walk in the park for Hamilton. Hell, Even Bottas has put up a fight at times where he's looked phenomenal, but has succumbed to Hamilton's consistency.

I don't and will never understand how or why anyone who is a supposed true fan could even suggest any season has been monotonous with everything that goes on throughout a season. The only way I could see this thought crossing anyone's mind is if they're solely looking at the final standings at the end of the season because those numbers don't tell the whole story. They don't reflect all the things that transpire through 9 months of intense competition.

I think polls like this are unfairly skewed to serve a misconceived personal point of view. Some seasons are certainly more exciting than others, but they're all highly complex and comprised of highly contested individual events that offer something different, but it's up to the individual to look close enough to notice some of those things.
HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA

shoot999
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by shoot999 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Hamilton with another car. So when ???? eventually takes the crown it's because he has taken the crown from arguably the best drive of his generation; not because he inherited the mighty Mercedes.
I don't know. I think when Alonso dethroned Schumacher, it was looked on as special because Schumacher and Ferrari were the ultimate force. Dethroning a Hamilton in a Ferrari wouldn't be as spectacular imo.

I voted a Non Hamilton Merc WDC. Removing any driver bias, I get more bored of a winning driver than a winning team, because I am ultimately somewhat indifferent between which team tops the table.
But my point; and the driver choice given ,was that Hamilton would have just won an 8th WDC in the Ferrari (as an example). So whoever came next would have to take the crown from the current WDC who achieved his 8th title in a Ferrari.

Unless of course he retired as an undefeated 8 x WDC having achieved that with three different teams!

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by SteveW »

Voted Hamilton driving for another team. Not because I hate Mercedes, or because I'm a Hamilton fan - I'm neither.....

I voted because of the achievement it would be for Hamilton to win WDCs in three different teams.


To be honest I'd prefer any driver in a Williams, but we all know that's unlikely in the near future, if ever again :lol:

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

shoot999 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Hamilton with another car. So when ???? eventually takes the crown it's because he has taken the crown from arguably the best drive of his generation; not because he inherited the mighty Mercedes.
I don't know. I think when Alonso dethroned Schumacher, it was looked on as special because Schumacher and Ferrari were the ultimate force. Dethroning a Hamilton in a Ferrari wouldn't be as spectacular imo.

I voted a Non Hamilton Merc WDC. Removing any driver bias, I get more bored of a winning driver than a winning team, because I am ultimately somewhat indifferent between which team tops the table.
But my point; and the driver choice given ,was that Hamilton would have just won an 8th WDC in the Ferrari (as an example). So whoever came next would have to take the crown from the current WDC who achieved his 8th title in a Ferrari.

Unless of course he retired as an undefeated 8 x WDC having achieved that with three different teams!
Oh yeah, I did misinterpret you. That makes sense :thumbup:
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:I think polls like this are unfairly skewed to serve a misconceived personal point of view. Some seasons are certainly more exciting than others, but they're all highly complex and comprised of highly contested individual events that offer something different, but it's up to the individual to look close enough to notice some of those things.
You are very VERY wrong, and incredibly judgemental. I am not someone who finds myself in the bored camp at all, I've enjoyed every season I've watched since I started watching nearly 30 years ago. I enjoyed this season, every one of the Merc domination years, every one of the Red Bull domination years, and every one of the Ferrari domination years.

However, should Mercedes and Hamilton win the double next year, stretching it to 7 in a row, and Hamilton's 6th out of 7 titles, I can see why many fans might be getting tired of the result. I agree with you, that it's a huge disservice to both the effort Mercedes has put in to be where they are, and the fight they had to put in the last three seasons. Many believe that Ferrari had the better car last season, and Mercedes winning the opening 8 races to the season masked the fact that few of those races were easy.

I personally do not really mind who wins, so long as they deserve it - but if you step outside of the hard core fanbase then the headline "Lewis Hamilton wins again" seems stuck on repeat. He's been on the top step of 50% of the podiums of the last six years - to put this in context Schumacher only had 5 consecutive seasons where he managed this average and Fangio 4. Vettel has never had a rolling season average of 50%+

If I had added "different team and driver" to this poll then it would have dominated the results - and this is in a dedicated F1 forum of hardcore fans.

The purpose of this poll is not to judge Hamilton, not to judge Mercedes, not to say they shouldn't be winning. It's recognising that people do like to see variety, and not predictability, and which part is most important to them.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Vettel Fan »

Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by FormulaFun »

Voted for Hamilton with another team, not because I'm a fan (although obviously I am) but just because it'd be quite the achievement and nice to see such a record be made

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Covalent »

Neither TBH.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Covalent wrote:Neither TBH.
Vettel Fan wrote:Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is or if you have bothered to read what this poll is about.

The poll isn't "what outcome out of all outcomes do people prefer" as I am fairly certain that would be an overwhelming majority in favour of it being neither, due to the repetition of success, most people will want to see a change. It's typical in all sports whether it's football, tennis, snooker - whatever.

The point of the poll is to see which element is least desirable out of the pair's domination. Is it more frustrating that Mercedes has been dominating, or more frustrating that Hamilton is winning nearly all the time?

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Siao7 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Covalent wrote:Neither TBH.
Vettel Fan wrote:Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is or if you have bothered to read what this poll is about.

The poll isn't "what outcome out of all outcomes do people prefer" as I am fairly certain that would be an overwhelming majority in favour of it being neither, due to the repetition of success, most people will want to see a change. It's typical in all sports whether it's football, tennis, snooker - whatever.

The point of the poll is to see which element is least desirable out of the pair's domination. Is it more frustrating that Mercedes has been dominating, or more frustrating that Hamilton is winning nearly all the time?
While I have read the first post, I do get your point and I have voted myself, I still don't know why you want to know which is the least frustrating option!

Anyway, have a good day forumites, not long for Christmas now

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by mikeyg123 »

I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.
I think it is the "domination" that gets to people. I bet that some think that domination is horrible, but on the same breath praise Fangio (who got his 4 WDC's in a row)... The irony is lost!

I'd dare guess that it is the driver that is the one that people get fed up with more, as it seems to me that drivers get more attention in general. The poll result doesn't support my theory, but evidently some people voted for Hamilton with another team just for the significance of the amazing feat and what it could mean if it happened so I personally see it as a bit skewed. Of course I could equally be completely wrong!

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by shoot999 »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.
I think it is the "domination" that gets to people. I bet that some think that domination is horrible, but on the same breath praise Fangio (who got his 4 WDC's in a row)... The irony is lost!

I'd dare guess that it is the driver that is the one that people get fed up with more, as it seems to me that drivers get more attention in general. The poll result doesn't support my theory, but evidently some people voted for Hamilton with another team just for the significance of the amazing feat and what it could mean if it happened so I personally see it as a bit skewed. Of course I could equally be completely wrong!
I think you are completely wrong. If a cars dominant, that's about it, it's dominant. And will remain so whist other teams take considerable time, money and effort to catch up. Pretty much everyone predicted we were in for a long Mercedes haul once they started their domination.
With a driver he has to keep that dominance up at every race, lap, qually session, etc. and maintain it season after season. Far more interesting.

I don't see any correlation between drivers getting the attention and therefore people becoming fed up with them quicker. Are we fed up with the likes of Max/Vettel/Rosberg/Leclerc trying to take Hams crown, or do we get more excited watching RB and Ferrari take the Merc crown?

Besides I didn't vote for Ham because of the three team achievement; I just like the idea of the young pretender taking the crown of the current goat in any sport. Rather than team A producing a better car than the Merc and taking the WCC.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Siao7 »

shoot999 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.
I think it is the "domination" that gets to people. I bet that some think that domination is horrible, but on the same breath praise Fangio (who got his 4 WDC's in a row)... The irony is lost!

I'd dare guess that it is the driver that is the one that people get fed up with more, as it seems to me that drivers get more attention in general. The poll result doesn't support my theory, but evidently some people voted for Hamilton with another team just for the significance of the amazing feat and what it could mean if it happened so I personally see it as a bit skewed. Of course I could equally be completely wrong!
I think you are completely wrong. If a cars dominant, that's about it, it's dominant. And will remain so whist other teams take considerable time, money and effort to catch up. Pretty much everyone predicted we were in for a long Mercedes haul once they started their domination.
With a driver he has to keep that dominance up at every race, lap, qually session, etc. and maintain it season after season. Far more interesting.

I don't see any correlation between drivers getting the attention and therefore people becoming fed up with them quicker. Are we fed up with the likes of Max/Vettel/Rosberg/Leclerc trying to take Hams crown, or do we get more excited watching RB and Ferrari take the Merc crown?

Besides I didn't vote for Ham because of the three team achievement; I just like the idea of the young pretender taking the crown of the current goat in any sport. Rather than team A producing a better car than the Merc and taking the WCC.
The Mercedes long haul was predicted of course once they started their domination, since the token system pretty much ensured no one would catch up any time soon. They had to give special permission to Renault I think and then drop it altogether in order to let the others catch up. But at least we had the team mate wars, so you do get this scenario; top team and two drivers that battle for it, like Senna-Prost, Hamilton- Alonso or Hamilton-Rosberg. A dominant team does not mean necessarily that the fun stops!

When I wrote about the driver attention I meant in general. Talking about Hamilton (as this is a thread for him), see how many articles are there about his lifestyle, what he wrote, what he said, what he ate, what did his dog do, who he dated, etc. The attention he gets in general is incredible and there are people that have openly criticised him for his life choices. So yes, I find it relevant that people would down vote him because of the constant media bombardment. Again, I may be wrong, but I get this feeling.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by SteveW »

I must admit, I don't find either Mercedes OR Hamilton's continued success frustrating (even with me being a Williams supporter from way back in the 1980s).

I've never had a problem with the same team/driver winning AS LONG AS THE RACING IS GOOD!!

If you're too good for everyone else, then they need to improve - it's that simple. OK maybe not quite that simple in the more modern era when smaller teams can't afford to develop at the same rate, but I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say... :)

I've actually quite enjoyed the racing more this year than what I can remember from recent years. If it stays this way or improves even more then I'll be happy regardless of who's winning to be honest.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.
I think it is the "domination" that gets to people. I bet that some think that domination is horrible, but on the same breath praise Fangio (who got his 4 WDC's in a row)... The irony is lost!

I'd dare guess that it is the driver that is the one that people get fed up with more, as it seems to me that drivers get more attention in general. The poll result doesn't support my theory, but evidently some people voted for Hamilton with another team just for the significance of the amazing feat and what it could mean if it happened so I personally see it as a bit skewed. Of course I could equally be completely wrong!
Yeah I wouldn't be agreeing with you there, I go with the poll that goes with driver domination rather than team domination but then again I've never been a supporter of teams as such but more so drivers.

As a Hamilton supporter the bottom line is for him to win more titles but clearly it would be a bigger achievement to go to Ferrari and win than carrying on winning with Mercedes so I took that on board when voting, personally though I hope he stays with Mercedes the team most likely to provide the better opportunities for him.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think it's interesting. It shows what people are more fed up with. Team domination or driver domination.
I think it is the "domination" that gets to people. I bet that some think that domination is horrible, but on the same breath praise Fangio (who got his 4 WDC's in a row)... The irony is lost!

I'd dare guess that it is the driver that is the one that people get fed up with more, as it seems to me that drivers get more attention in general. The poll result doesn't support my theory, but evidently some people voted for Hamilton with another team just for the significance of the amazing feat and what it could mean if it happened so I personally see it as a bit skewed. Of course I could equally be completely wrong!
Yeah I wouldn't be agreeing with you there, I go with the poll that goes with driver domination rather than team domination but then again I've never been a supporter of teams as such but more so drivers.

As a Hamilton supporter the bottom line is for him to win more titles but clearly it would be a bigger achievement to go to Ferrari and win than carrying on winning with Mercedes so I took that on board when voting, personally though I hope he stays with Mercedes the team most likely to provide the better opportunities for him.
That's fair enough.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Covalent »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Covalent wrote:Neither TBH.
Vettel Fan wrote:Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is or if you have bothered to read what this poll is about.

The poll isn't "what outcome out of all outcomes do people prefer" as I am fairly certain that would be an overwhelming majority in favour of it being neither, due to the repetition of success, most people will want to see a change. It's typical in all sports whether it's football, tennis, snooker - whatever.

The point of the poll is to see which element is least desirable out of the pair's domination. Is it more frustrating that Mercedes has been dominating, or more frustrating that Hamilton is winning nearly all the time?
Well I'm equally fed up with either element. It's like a reversed sofie's choice. Please, take them both.

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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Covalent wrote:Neither TBH.
Vettel Fan wrote:Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is or if you have bothered to read what this poll is about.

The poll isn't "what outcome out of all outcomes do people prefer" as I am fairly certain that would be an overwhelming majority in favour of it being neither, due to the repetition of success, most people will want to see a change. It's typical in all sports whether it's football, tennis, snooker - whatever.

The point of the poll is to see which element is least desirable out of the pair's domination. Is it more frustrating that Mercedes has been dominating, or more frustrating that Hamilton is winning nearly all the time?
While I have read the first post, I do get your point and I have voted myself, I still don't know why you want to know which is the least frustrating option!

Anyway, have a good day forumites, not long for Christmas now
Well, basically, what mikey said - whenever I see comments sections across the internet they tend to express frustration at Hamilton / Mercedes winning all the time. If Hamilton was to leave it would guarantee half of that repetition would end - and I was curious which half frustrated people the most.

I am not surprised with the result of the poll. For a start, I think that there are more Hamilton fans than Mercedes fans, so Hamilton would always get an advantage on that front as his supporters would pick him in greater numbers than the other way around.

But also, casting my mind back to Vettel - there was a lot of frustration back then because he was unproven as a driver and there was a feeling he was just winning because of his Red Bull car advantage. If he had then gone to another team and won, unless that team had also been dominant, it would have added legitimacy. Whereas if a new driver had just popped into the Red Bull and continued winning championships for them it would have seemed like the driver was irrelevant.

I also think that people identify more with the drivers because they are the human element than the teams/cars. Even though the car is actually the result of more people's achievements and often the driver happens to be the one individual who lets everyone else down - that's not what most people see. They just see a vehicle that happens to be the fastest.

However, Vettel's success was not as great as Hamilton's success. Hamilton's 50% win rate for 6 consecutive seasons is unprecedented, and while the 2017/2018 Mercs were not dominant to the broader audience it's one driver winning as much as all the other drivers combined. Even though we as a forum rate Max as being roughly equal to Hamilton in ability, to the broader audience he's just a "not Hamilton" because it's been a toss of the coin whether it's Hamilton or one of the other 19 drivers for six years now - so I feel that to many Hamilton's domination of the sport may have been more tiresome than any other driver before him, including Schumacher.

Siao7
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Siao7 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Covalent wrote:Neither TBH.
Vettel Fan wrote:Not Hamilton and not Mercedes.
I'm not quite sure what the point of this is or if you have bothered to read what this poll is about.

The poll isn't "what outcome out of all outcomes do people prefer" as I am fairly certain that would be an overwhelming majority in favour of it being neither, due to the repetition of success, most people will want to see a change. It's typical in all sports whether it's football, tennis, snooker - whatever.

The point of the poll is to see which element is least desirable out of the pair's domination. Is it more frustrating that Mercedes has been dominating, or more frustrating that Hamilton is winning nearly all the time?
While I have read the first post, I do get your point and I have voted myself, I still don't know why you want to know which is the least frustrating option!

Anyway, have a good day forumites, not long for Christmas now
Well, basically, what mikey said - whenever I see comments sections across the internet they tend to express frustration at Hamilton / Mercedes winning all the time. If Hamilton was to leave it would guarantee half of that repetition would end - and I was curious which half frustrated people the most.

I am not surprised with the result of the poll. For a start, I think that there are more Hamilton fans than Mercedes fans, so Hamilton would always get an advantage on that front as his supporters would pick him in greater numbers than the other way around.

But also, casting my mind back to Vettel - there was a lot of frustration back then because he was unproven as a driver and there was a feeling he was just winning because of his Red Bull car advantage. If he had then gone to another team and won, unless that team had also been dominant, it would have added legitimacy. Whereas if a new driver had just popped into the Red Bull and continued winning championships for them it would have seemed like the driver was irrelevant.

I also think that people identify more with the drivers because they are the human element than the teams/cars. Even though the car is actually the result of more people's achievements and often the driver happens to be the one individual who lets everyone else down - that's not what most people see. They just see a vehicle that happens to be the fastest.

However, Vettel's success was not as great as Hamilton's success. Hamilton's 50% win rate for 6 consecutive seasons is unprecedented, and while the 2017/2018 Mercs were not dominant to the broader audience it's one driver winning as much as all the other drivers combined. Even though we as a forum rate Max as being roughly equal to Hamilton in ability, to the broader audience he's just a "not Hamilton" because it's been a toss of the coin whether it's Hamilton or one of the other 19 drivers for six years now - so I feel that to many Hamilton's domination of the sport may have been more tiresome than any other driver before him, including Schumacher.
I fully agree Alien

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mmi16
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by mmi16 »

Hamilton in a Williams would be a stretch.

Bottas in a Merc would not.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Invade wrote:The forum feels slightly different now with some old regulars leaving. I wonder if that had anything to do with Hamilton and Mercedes being an excessively dominant force.
My personal investment in Formula One has declined appreciably in the last three years. I now watch other racing series that carry a lot more excitement and unpredictability. Not because of Hamilton, but because right now the quality of on-track action just plain sucks.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by pokerman »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Invade wrote:The forum feels slightly different now with some old regulars leaving. I wonder if that had anything to do with Hamilton and Mercedes being an excessively dominant force.
My personal investment in Formula One has declined appreciably in the last three years. I now watch other racing series that carry a lot more excitement and unpredictability. Not because of Hamilton, but because right now the quality of on-track action just plain sucks.
Which is kind of strange because the last 3 years have been better than the previous 3 years.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by Exediron »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:My personal investment in Formula One has declined appreciably in the last three years. I now watch other racing series that carry a lot more excitement and unpredictability. Not because of Hamilton, but because right now the quality of on-track action just plain sucks.
pokerman wrote:Which is kind of strange because the last 3 years have been better than the previous 3 years.
Well, I guess if you're looking for unpredictability (which is apparently the #1 sports buzzword of the century, everything has to be unpredictable) then F1 might not be the right series for you at the moment. I've thought the last 3 years were all pretty decent, particularly 2019.
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Re: Non Merc Hamilton or Non Hamilton Merc WDC?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:My personal investment in Formula One has declined appreciably in the last three years. I now watch other racing series that carry a lot more excitement and unpredictability. Not because of Hamilton, but because right now the quality of on-track action just plain sucks.
pokerman wrote:Which is kind of strange because the last 3 years have been better than the previous 3 years.
Well, I guess if you're looking for unpredictability (which is apparently the #1 sports buzzword of the century, everything has to be unpredictable) then F1 might not be the right series for you at the moment. I've thought the last 3 years were all pretty decent, particularly 2019.
Indeed and strange to bail out now when you've watched the previous years that were worse.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

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