2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

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pokerman
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

F1 Racer wrote:
Fiki wrote:I enjoyed the race, but I do feel they should be far stricter about cars going outside the track all the time.
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
A black and white warning flag perhaps?
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Fiki wrote:I enjoyed the race, but I do feel they should be far stricter about cars going outside the track all the time.
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
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mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Fiki wrote:I enjoyed the race, but I do feel they should be far stricter about cars going outside the track all the time.
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.

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Covalent
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1 Racer »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Fiki wrote:I enjoyed the race, but I do feel they should be far stricter about cars going outside the track all the time.
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

Wow. Ferrari had a shocker. First with Vettel and then Charles some 52secs off Mercedes x( I think Max would have got Hamilton in the end but as usual Mercedes had the best car again. It is a shame Albon had the first lap incident. I think he could have beat Charles on merit.
Last edited by Mercedes-Benz on Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Red Bull would have to be crazy not to re-sign Albon for 2020. He's completely overshadowed Gasly.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

On the theme of celebrities in the coverage, Sky spent 10 minutes or so talking to Will I Am and Matthew McConaughey

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

A lot to digest there. A good drive from Bottas who reaped the rewards of yesterday. The two stop strategy was the right one for him as they had to cover Verstappen. Hamilton's one stop also worked a treat and in fact had he not battled Bottas so hard It would have been a pretty comfortable second place I reckon. As it was though, the yellow flag was desperately unfortunate timing for Max.

The Ferrari pace or total lack of pace more to the point was the second biggest talking point. We know their long run pace wasn't all that strong in practice, but it is a huge surprise to see them basically on their Budapest pace. There are theories circling of course. The next race will tell us for sure I suspect.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

BMWSauber84 wrote:A lot to digest there. A good drive from Bottas who reaped the rewards of yesterday. The two stop strategy was the right one for him as they had to cover Verstappen. Hamilton's one stop also worked a treat and in fact had he not battled Bottas so hard It would have been a pretty comfortable second place I reckon. As it was though, the yellow flag was desperately unfortunate timing for Max.

The Ferrari pace or total lack of pace more to the point was the second biggest talking point. We know their long run pace wasn't all that strong in practice, but it is a huge surprise to see them basically on their Budapest pace. There are theories circling of course. The next race will tell us for sure I suspect.
Yeah Ferrari's race pace will probably be the main interest in the last two races.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.
You recall incorrectly.

I can't remember a recent case of a driver being penalised for it.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Fiki wrote:I enjoyed the race, but I do feel they should be far stricter about cars going outside the track all the time.
Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I don't understand how it's different, it's a driver running another driver off the track and comment being made, this time It's being suggested that Hamilton be penalised when neither of the previous drivers got penalised for things that I would consider to have been worse.
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
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mikeyg123
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote: I don't understand how it's different, it's a driver running another driver off the track and comment being made, this time It's being suggested that Hamilton be penalised when neither of the previous drivers got penalised for things that I would consider to have been worse.
Nobody is suggesting that.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote: Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?

Plus Leclerc seemed to move into Albon at the start and Albon moved into Sainz. Not sure who was at fault here out of Albon and Leclerc, I think Albon should have held his ground and not moved more to the right into Sainz. If Albon stayed firm in the middle of the track, maybe Leclerc stops continuing to move right?
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.
I think crashing into another car might be a bit different? :)
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JN23
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Verstappen said he had a hole in his floor after some damage on lap one - did anyone see anything that happened at the start?

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:On the theme of celebrities in the coverage, Sky spent 10 minutes or so talking to Will I Am and Matthew McConaughey
Both friends of Hamilton who has just become 6 time world champion.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:On the theme of celebrities in the coverage, Sky spent 10 minutes or so talking to Will I Am and Matthew McConaughey
Both friends of Hamilton who has just become 6 time world champion.
I get that and I enjoyed the Will I Am bit, but I can understand why people would prefer to here from F1 pundits/drivers/staff etc

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: I don't understand how it's different, it's a driver running another driver off the track and comment being made, this time It's being suggested that Hamilton be penalised when neither of the previous drivers got penalised for things that I would consider to have been worse.
Nobody is suggesting that.
F1 Racer wrote:Also didn't LH force VB off the track and it went unpunished?
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:Verstappen said he had a hole in his floor after some damage on lap one - did anyone see anything that happened at the start?
I would be guessing running off the track perhaps, we were seeing bits flying off cars after running off the track.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Greenman »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
.

Look on the http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15448 thread

.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

JN23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:On the theme of celebrities in the coverage, Sky spent 10 minutes or so talking to Will I Am and Matthew McConaughey
Both friends of Hamilton who has just become 6 time world champion.
I get that and I enjoyed the Will I Am bit, but I can understand why people would prefer to here from F1 pundits/drivers/staff etc
We got that as well.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
I was only commenting on the ample usage of question marks. Ferrari's woes are for sure interesting but let's see what the cause was.
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
People only care about that when Verstappen is the perpetrator.
Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.
I think crashing into another car might be a bit different? :)
Would they have crashed had Bottas not evaded off the track?
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Greenman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
.

Look on the http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15448 thread

.
Wow Hamilton actually said that Ferrari have lost power since the FIA technical directive. 8O
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by da4an1qu1 »

UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
I've really had enough of him

pokerman
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
I was only commenting on the ample usage of question marks. Ferrari's woes are for sure interesting but let's see what the cause was.
Yep.
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pokerman
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

da4an1qu1 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
I've really had enough of him
Pressure from Gasly causing Kvyat to flat line again?
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

pokerman wrote:
Greenman wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Greenman wrote:BBC reporting that yesterday the FIA had noted (and warned against) a technical tweak that allowed one team ( ??? Ferrari ??? ) to go a bit faster at times. The BBC are NOT saying the team IS Ferrari, but merely note Ferrari's change of pace ????????????????????????????????
I think you missed a question mark there.
Just coincidence then?

No qualifying advantage, no talk of time lost on straights, it's understandable if someone might wonder even if it's a case of 2+2=5.
.

Look on the http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15448 thread

.
Wow Hamilton actually said that Ferrari have lost power since the FIA technical directive. 8O
I think it's very clear.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by da4an1qu1 »

pokerman wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
I've really had enough of him
Pressure from Gasly causing Kvyat to flat line again?
It appears that way. Was pleased that Kvyat had a chance at redemption. But he lacks control, and there is appears to be little hope of him developing it.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
This name is just getting over used. Verstappen had 2 messy races in a row in Belgium and Italy and this doesn't seem to get much criticism. The rest of Kvyat's season has overal been pretty good. These mistakes were not all that bad. Last race was a bit clumsy but it really was such a light contact. Calling this a crash is over the top. And this is why i think torpedo just makes no sense. It is just an unreasonable name that seems to have been given to him.

Torpedo seems to have come from what Vettel said in China one year when Kvyat did nothing wrong at all. Just because he happened to have a bad year, that name seems to have stuck. He's been outraced by Gasly in the last 2 races, but this year he overall has looked good. That name is just unreasonable imo. Certain drivers seem to just get criticized based on their past.

Grosjean especially the last 2 years and Maldonado years ago when very little was his fault compared to other drivers.

We should also note that 3 drivers have been at red bull this season. Only Verstappen has been getting podiums - and a win. Gasly and albon don't have a podium while kvyat got Toro Rosso's first podium for nearly 12 years.
Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

da4an1qu1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
I've really had enough of him
Pressure from Gasly causing Kvyat to flat line again?
It appears that way. Was pleased that Kvyat had a chance at redemption. But he lacks control, and there is appears to be little hope of him developing it.
As my post above mentions, his overall season has been good. These mistakes really are not that bad and drivers like verstappen have made worse - or at least more costly.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1-Dave »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
This name is just getting over used. Verstappen had 2 messy races in a row in Belgium and Italy and this doesn't seem to get much criticism. The rest of Kvyat's season has overal been pretty good. These mistakes were not all that bad. Last race was a bit clumsy but it really was such a light contact. Calling this a crash is over the top. And this is why i think torpedo just makes no sense. It is just an unreasonable name that seems to have been given to him.

Torpedo seems to have come from what Vettel said in China one year when Kvyat did nothing wrong at all. Just because he happened to have a bad year, that name seems to have stuck. He's been outraced by Gasly in the last 2 races, but this year he overall has looked good. That name is just unreasonable imo. Certain drivers seem to just get criticized based on their past.

Grosjean especially the last 2 years and Maldonado years ago when very little was his fault compared to other drivers.

We should also note that 3 drivers have been at red bull this season. Only Verstappen has been getting podiums - and a win. Gasly and albon don't have a podium while kvyat got Toro Rosso's first podium for nearly 12 years.
Kyvat actually raced with a helmet with a cartoon character of himself riding a torpedo featuring on the back of it...

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/14450

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

F1-Dave wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Torpedo is back again at it. IN Mexico, he crashes into Hulk on the last corner of the last lap. In U.S., he crashes into Perez on the last lap. He gets a penalty for both collisions.
This name is just getting over used. Verstappen had 2 messy races in a row in Belgium and Italy and this doesn't seem to get much criticism. The rest of Kvyat's season has overal been pretty good. These mistakes were not all that bad. Last race was a bit clumsy but it really was such a light contact. Calling this a crash is over the top. And this is why i think torpedo just makes no sense. It is just an unreasonable name that seems to have been given to him.

Torpedo seems to have come from what Vettel said in China one year when Kvyat did nothing wrong at all. Just because he happened to have a bad year, that name seems to have stuck. He's been outraced by Gasly in the last 2 races, but this year he overall has looked good. That name is just unreasonable imo. Certain drivers seem to just get criticized based on their past.

Grosjean especially the last 2 years and Maldonado years ago when very little was his fault compared to other drivers.

We should also note that 3 drivers have been at red bull this season. Only Verstappen has been getting podiums - and a win. Gasly and albon don't have a podium while kvyat got Toro Rosso's first podium for nearly 12 years.
Kyvat actually raced with a helmet with a cartoon character of himself riding a torpedo featuring on the back of it...

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/14450

Image

LOL.

At this point we can just embrace the moniker.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1 Racer »

mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Was not the issue last time concerning Leclerc?
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.
You recall incorrectly.

I can't remember a recent case of a driver being penalised for it.
No I recall correctly. He got penalised for it.

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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1 Racer »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I consider those separate issues. Leclerc ran Hamilton off on the way into the corner. It's generally been viewed differently.

Drivers do what Vertsappen did in Austria and what Hamilton did today every race. Usually without much comment.
I thought someone got done recently for forcing off on the corner exit like this? Leclerc in Japan if I recall correctly.
I think crashing into another car might be a bit different? :)
Would they have crashed had Bottas not evaded off the track?
Exactly this.

Verstappen failed to drive his car off the track in Japan so he ended up getting hit.

In USA Bottas succeeded in driving his car off the track so he didn't end up getting hit but he was still transgressed in the same way.

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Johnson
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Johnson »

The Ferrari pace was truly awful, if a rule tweak caused them to be that slow then for 2020 Mercedes are back to heavy favourites.

LBET
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by LBET »

pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:On the theme of celebrities in the coverage, Sky spent 10 minutes or so talking to Will I Am and Matthew McConaughey
Both friends of Hamilton who has just become 6 time world champion.
And Matt seems to have a real need to flash the sign of the horns at every opportunity.

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Blake
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Re: 2019 U. S. Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:I HATE it when the drivers are in the cooldown room and crofty won't stop talking. We miss the discussions. On channel 4 when they were live, Ben Edwards always says lets listen into what they are saying and stops talking unless there is total scilence. Crofty ruins the coverage in so many ways.....
You are being too generous towards Crofty. I end up angry with most every broadcast...to the point of turning of the sound, or even switching to a different program.
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

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