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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:21 pm 
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George should have left more room than that

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:24 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:25 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?

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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.

Didn't Ferrari pit Vettel to react to Hulkenberg? His race may have been screwed otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.


I didn't say Mercedes' strategy was unfair. But Mercedes' strategy was in order to help Hamilton win the race. Ferrari's strategy was in order to help Ferrari win the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I knew you'd spin it around for us all :lol:

Like I knew the kind of response I might see from you, who has really been treated unfairly here?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Well it appears Leclerc had no idea they pitted Vettel first. Ferrari boo-boo.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Vettel seems to be on a roll. Didn't look like anything obviously dodgy went on with the pit-stops (I'd love to known if Leclerc was offered first stop, that should settle it), did he put in good out-laps to jump Leclerc?

Fresh tyres will do that for you.

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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Not sure how much more unfair it is to be undercut, than to be told to simply slow your pace significantly so that you don't beat your team mate. Either way you've been given a situation where you have no choice but to lose out to your team mate.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


Would it have been unfair?

?.

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Sainz is back in the race!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Hamilton has lost 2 places, Leclerc has lost the lead, Bottas is still 5th so I'm not sure why people are upset. I would be complaining more Bottas was put on a nothing strategy. Mercedes didn't go for the undercut or even split strategies.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:29 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.

Didn't Ferrari pit Vettel to react to Hulkenberg? His race may have been screwed otherwise.

So they screwed Leclerc's race instead?

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2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.


I didn't say Mercedes' strategy was unfair. But Mercedes' strategy was in order to help Hamilton win the race. Ferrari's strategy was in order to help Ferrari win the race.

Which they already were doing with Leclerc and could have pitted Leclerc first instead.

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:34 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Bottas signed a contract that says, 'you are the number two driver'

No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:36 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.


I didn't say Mercedes' strategy was unfair. But Mercedes' strategy was in order to help Hamilton win the race. Ferrari's strategy was in order to help Ferrari win the race.

Which they already were doing with Leclerc and could have pitted Leclerc first instead.


and finish 1st and 3rd.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:36 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.


Yes, it made sense at the time to put a car between Hamilton and Leclerc. I think Vettel pit first as a test for Ferrari, who weren't expecting him to have that much pace.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
Vettel seems to be on a roll. Didn't look like anything obviously dodgy went on with the pit-stops (I'd love to known if Leclerc was offered first stop, that should settle it), did he put in good out-laps to jump Leclerc?

Fresh tyres will do that for you.


Fresh tires + clear air. Does look like Leclerc didn't get the choice to stop first, as the leader should. Could get tasty on track if Leclerc wants it back, as he understandably would.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:38 pm 
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The two safety cars have taken some time to be called by race director. Any idea why?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:38 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.

Giving the undercut against Leclerc and the race lead to Vettel but instead you want to critique an unfairness at Mercedes because they didn't allow the undercut, some interesting posts I'm having to read.


I didn't say Mercedes' strategy was unfair. But Mercedes' strategy was in order to help Hamilton win the race. Ferrari's strategy was in order to help Ferrari win the race.

Which they already were doing with Leclerc and could have pitted Leclerc first instead.


and finish 1st and 3rd.


Correct imo too.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Not sure how much more unfair it is to be undercut, than to be told to simply slow your pace significantly so that you don't beat your team mate. Either way you've been given a situation where you have no choice but to lose out to your team mate.

If you don't think that being able to undercut your teammate is unfair, then there's not much further I can go with this.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:

I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.


Yes, it made sense at the time to put a car between Hamilton and Leclerc. I think Vettel pit first as a test for Ferrari, who weren't expecting him to have that much pace.


You could see the pace from the other cars who had pitted, also it's a long lap with fresh tyres, the undercut will always work.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Think these SC periods will negate any tyre life offset. That could be the race done for the top slots.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Not sure how much more unfair it is to be undercut, than to be told to simply slow your pace significantly so that you don't beat your team mate. Either way you've been given a situation where you have no choice but to lose out to your team mate.

If you don't think that being able to undercut your teammate is unfair, then there's not much further I can go with this.


Please read my post again. I didn't say that.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:40 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Hamilton has lost 2 places, Leclerc has lost the lead, Bottas is still 5th so I'm not sure why people are upset. I would be complaining more Bottas was put on a nothing strategy. Mercedes didn't go for the undercut or even split strategies.

Hamilton could have won the race with better strategy he after all was running in front of Vettel.

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Last edited by pokerman on Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:41 pm 
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The SCs was the worst thing possivble thing for this race, if there was a chance of a 2 stopper it has gone now. The gap might have gone down for Hamilton but you cant overtake

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Seems like an intact car (Perez) stopped right next to an escape/recovery road on a straight bit of track. Why did this need SC deployment?


Last edited by chetan_rao on Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:42 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.

The positions could still have been reversed.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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Last edited by pokerman on Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:44 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Think these SC periods will negate any tyre life offset. That could be the race done for the top slots.

Yeah they've destroyed the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:45 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.


Yes, it made sense at the time to put a car between Hamilton and Leclerc. I think Vettel pit first as a test for Ferrari, who weren't expecting him to have that much pace.


You could see the pace from the other cars who had pitted, also it's a long lap with fresh tyres, the undercut will always work.


*Double undercut.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
No he wasn't allowed the unfair undercut on his teammate unlike what Ferrari seem to have done with Leclerc?


I don't think there was anything malicious about Ferrari's strategy. It was the right thing to do at the time.


To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Ferrari made the correct strategy for the team. It took them from 1/3 to 1/2. It's tough on Leclerc but still the right thing for Ferrari to do.

The positions could still have been reversed.[/quote]

They could. If I was head honcho at Ferrari I wouldn't though.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:46 pm 
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How is it that at Monaco they seem to be able to remove crashed or broken down cars from the circuit so quickly, but at other street circuits it seems to take so long.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
To give your teammate the undercut? Leclerc is going to fuming, like Horner said Ferrai gave Vettel the better strategy.

Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Not sure how much more unfair it is to be undercut, than to be told to simply slow your pace significantly so that you don't beat your team mate. Either way you've been given a situation where you have no choice but to lose out to your team mate.

If you don't think that being able to undercut your teammate is unfair, then there's not much further I can go with this.


Please read my post again. I didn't say that.

No you're thinking it's unfair that Bottas wasn't allowed to beat Hamilton with the use of an unfair undercut, what strategy can you use to make this fair?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Indeed Leclerc is fuming but apparently it's Bottas that supposedly being treated unfairly?


Not sure how much more unfair it is to be undercut, than to be told to simply slow your pace significantly so that you don't beat your team mate. Either way you've been given a situation where you have no choice but to lose out to your team mate.

If you don't think that being able to undercut your teammate is unfair, then there's not much further I can go with this.


Please read my post again. I didn't say that.

No you're thinking it's unfair that Bottas wasn't allowed to beat Hamilton with the use of an unfair undercut, what strategy can you use to make this fair?


It wasn't any fault of Bottas that he was in a position to get ahead of LH, but he was told to slow down a significant amount. I understand why this was done but it still sucks for Bottas. I also know why Ferrari did the pit strategy they did and agree with it, but that also sucks for Leclerc.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:50 pm 
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It's certainly all happening further back!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:51 pm 
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This is beginning to look more like the go-kart racing I see at my local track, on damp Sunday mornings!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:52 pm 
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They need to use the safety car less. For that's it's ridiculous. Should be dealt with under VSC.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Pffft...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Third safety car - this is getting silly.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
How is it that at Monaco they seem to be able to remove crashed or broken down cars from the circuit so quickly, but at other street circuits it seems to take so long.

More cranes i think


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