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Possible Qualifying farce solution.
https://forum.planetf1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15684
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Author:  Lord Crc [ Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

No changes needed IMHO. This wasn't much different from a car going off track and generating a yellow or red flag, which is part of the challenge with qualifying, ie getting a good lap in. Cars blocking should get penalized for that of course.

Author:  pc27b [ Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

i guess i don't see a "problem that needs fixing"

the teams played games and waited late to release the cars. then the drivers played games. they lost out, so be it as far as i am concerned

Author:  Covalent [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

froze wrote:
The current format is otherwise fine, but personally I would like to see Q3 changed into one shot qualifying. That way we would be able to follow the fight for pole more closely. Currently up to 5 cars are able to fight for pole so it's impossible to have tv coverage of their laps at the same time, and hence sometimes the polesitter ends up being the one who wasn't even followed on the broadcast. The only downside I see to this is if the weather changes during Q3 so all drivers might not get equal running conditions. But, on the other hand, this format would eliminate the chance of getting a flying lap ruined by a slow driving car or yellow/red flag, which can be even more disappointing.

That's not a terrible idea actually :thumbup:
One option would be to have a shootout for the top3 only.

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

Author:  Exediron [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

I like one shot qualifying, but I can't support how random it becomes when the weather isn't stable.

Author:  froze [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

I like one shot qualifying, but I can't support how random it becomes when the weather isn't stable.

As far as I can remember, the chance of flying lap being ruined by a slow driving car or yellow/red flag is far more frequent than radical weather changes during Q3. So I don't know if that would be a problem. I guess it's tough to fix them both.

Author:  babararacucudada [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

simonr23 wrote:
I think there should be a maximum lap time allowed- both for outlaps and another for cooldown laps. Maybe a 120% of a time derived from P1-P3 stats.


That seems sensible. It would need to be introduced before a season started, as it may affect the way Pirelli would design their softest tyre.
Apart from circuits like Monza, there are risks created by cars driving very slowly on their out lap in many qualifying sessions.

Author:  Asphalt_World [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

I like one shot qualifying, but I can't support how random it becomes when the weather isn't stable.


It had its moments but was far too track/weather dependant for me.

Author:  trento [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

froze wrote:
The current format is otherwise fine, but personally I would like to see Q3 changed into one shot qualifying. That way we would be able to follow the fight for pole more closely. Currently up to 5 cars are able to fight for pole so it's impossible to have tv coverage of their laps at the same time, and hence sometimes the polesitter ends up being the one who wasn't even followed on the broadcast. The only downside I see to this is if the weather changes during Q3 so all drivers might not get equal running conditions. But, on the other hand, this format would eliminate the chance of getting a flying lap ruined by a slow driving car or yellow/red flag, which can be even more disappointing.


it would be more than one hour so it's not possible.

I think how about '2 shots' qualifying for both Q1 and 2? No Q3. Each driver has a total of 4 laps.

Author:  Vettel Fan [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Jezza13 wrote:
I'm not sure this issue needs a solution. This format has worked brilliantly for many years (lets not mention Bahrain 2016 though) & I don't think the sport needs a fix to an issue the teams caused which in the end only penalised their own drivers.

Pretty much every driver in the 2nd part of Q3 could've gotten on with the job & made it in time but in the end all bar Sainz & Leclerc played it too cute, out foxed themselves & payed the penalty.

I agree with this. I think of all the problems in F1 the qualifying format is the one thing that should be left alone. This is this first time I can remember anything like this happening before.

Author:  Option or Prime [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Will slipstreaming still make a significant difference with the new regs, I can see it probably would but I just wonder if the new aero might change things.

Author:  wolfticket [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Option or Prime wrote:
Will slipstreaming still make a significant difference with the new regs, I can see it probably would but I just wonder if the new aero might change things.

I think if the regulations are successful in making cars easier to follow in the corners then it will inevitably have the effect of lessening the slipstream effect on the straights.

Author:  Asphalt_World [ Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Slip-steaming is important in so much motorsport so I doubt it will go away very much with new regs. The new regs are not really designed to stop slip-streaming but to aid following in corners. I'm sure slip-streaming will still be fairly important as it was in the pre-wing 60's.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Asphalt_World wrote:
Slip-steaming is important in so much motorsport so I doubt it will go away very much with new regs. The new regs are not really designed to stop slip-streaming but to aid following in corners. I'm sure slip-streaming will still be fairly important as it was in the pre-wing 60's.

I agree. My understanding is that the new rules will prevent turbulence behind other cars. It won't stop them from making a "hole" in the air.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Vettel Fan wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
I'm not sure this issue needs a solution. This format has worked brilliantly for many years (lets not mention Bahrain 2016 though) & I don't think the sport needs a fix to an issue the teams caused which in the end only penalised their own drivers.

Pretty much every driver in the 2nd part of Q3 could've gotten on with the job & made it in time but in the end all bar Sainz & Leclerc played it too cute, out foxed themselves & payed the penalty.

I agree with this. I think of all the problems in F1 the qualifying format is the one thing that should be left alone. This is this first time I can remember anything like this happening before.

Precisely. F1's qualy format is the best of any racing series and this is the only time I recall this ever happening.
Any loopholes exploited by teams for this format have been addressed and it simply works. Rather than see cars going around and around trying to get one best lap was a bit dull and boring whereas the current 3-session system forces teams to push to the absolute maximum in an action packed sprint for every session and Q3 produces a level of excitement that is incredible and the surprises it produces at times is out of this stratosphere. The seasons when Vettel & Red Bull were reigning supreme and put down unbelievable qualy laps that seems untouchable and Lewis would squeak out an even faster time to snatch pole were super exciting. Seeing Vettel scratching his head wondering how on earth Hamilton was able to do it was great to see.

Author:  Black_Flag_11 [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

I like one shot qualifying, but I can't support how random it becomes when the weather isn't stable.

I quite like the idea of what's suggested above with the top 5 or top 3 going into a one shot Q4. Far less likely for weather to come into it and even on the rare occasion it does the driver that gets screwed over by it starts P5/P3 not P20.

Author:  donr [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Nothing ever says they have to complete 2 attempts, or even 1 attempt. We've seen that many times. I say just let them look like fools.

But:
Shorten Q3 to 5 minutes. One shot, everyone at the same time.
I don't know what they do when multiple drivers don't post a time in Q3, but it's bound to make someone get off their bum and make sure they get their 1 lap in.

Don

Author:  Exediron [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm alone on this but one shot quali was always my favourite format.

I like one shot qualifying, but I can't support how random it becomes when the weather isn't stable.

I quite like the idea of what's suggested above with the top 5 or top 3 going into a one shot Q4. Far less likely for weather to come into it and even on the rare occasion it does the driver that gets screwed over by it starts P5/P3 not P20.

So a sort of Formula E 'Super Pole' system? I could see that, but it seems far too specifically aimed at pole position. The rest of the grid positions would still be determined in the same way as ever, and one of the nice things about one-shot quali is the possibility for a heroic lap to move someone up the grid (or for a mistake to drop them down).

Author:  Caserole of Nonsense [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Possible Qualifying farce solution.

nothing needs to change they just messed up. they shouldve left the pits with 2.30mins left which happened in q2 but in q3 they were closer to 2mins. then the games were even more silly because its q3. but i cant believe the teams, where every fraction of a second is so crucial, allowed it to happen and the drivers seemingly oblivious to what was happening. i think this incident will be enough to make sure teams and drivers know exactly what they have to do on outlaps and maybe have a delta/warning on the dash or something.

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