2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk is atleast under investigation!

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Are they investigating Vettel - who did the same in an earlier run - as well?

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

F1_Ernie wrote:Vettels time has to go but doubt they will because its Monza.
You seem to be right, here ...

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Jezza13
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Jezza13 »

FormulaFun wrote:Why would you bring in a rule to prevent something like this? It only happened because the teams were being idiots and then the McLaren and Renault were causing a frikkin road block

Correction the Ferraris actually got passed Sainz and then decided to try and be clever and it back fired
Yeah there 10 cars out there & none of them wanted to take the initiative & lead the pack. The all stuffed around.

By the time they realised they had to pull their finger out & get serious, for 8 of the 10 it was too late.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Jezza13 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk is atleast under investigation!

Image
Source - Imgur
Are they investigating Vettel - who did the same in an earlier run - as well?
All depends on how much Derek Warwick values his family jewels.
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FormulaFun
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by FormulaFun »

Jezza13 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:Why would you bring in a rule to prevent something like this? It only happened because the teams were being idiots and then the McLaren and Renault were causing a frikkin road block

Correction the Ferraris actually got passed Sainz and then decided to try and be clever and it back fired
Yeah there 10 cars out there & none of them wanted to take the initiative & lead the pack. The all stuffed around.

By the time they realised they had to pull their finger out & get serious, for 8 of the 10 it was too late.
Exactly, there's no need to penalise anybody except for maybe hulk the punishment is they all ruined their own chance at pole/improving and look like complete and utter spoons

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SmoothRide
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by SmoothRide »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Are they investigating Vettel - who did the same in an earlier run - as well?
Vettel locked up his wheels under braking. Perhaps it could be argued that he did it deliberately, but how would you prove it?

sidders
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sidders »

According to Hamilton they did have a delta time but was too slow

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... h/4534258/

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by UnlikeUday »

Here's the comedy show:
Feel The Fourth

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Greenman »

.

If only Murray Walker was still commentating he'd have been wonderful with his insults and comparisons.

.

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

What on earth was that!? I honestly blame Hulkenberg. He was the first man out and then he just chose to take the runoff at turn 1. That's what started this whole thing. After that, Stroll was in the lead and he didn't want to go because he probably thought that what Hulk did was BS and that it wasn't fair. Then no one wanted to go. It was just ridiculous. Dumbest thing I've seen in F1 in years.

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Mayhem
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Mayhem »

sandman1347 wrote:What on earth was that!? I honestly blame Hulkenberg. He was the first man out and then he just chose to take the runoff at turn 1. That's what started this whole thing. After that, Stroll was in the lead and he didn't want to go because he probably thought that what Hulk did was BS and that it wasn't fair. Then no one wanted to go. It was just ridiculous. Dumbest thing I've seen in F1 in years.
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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by UnlikeUday »

Hulk doesn't get a penalty!
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

'The stewards report read: "In this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."'
Feel The Fourth

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by UnlikeUday »

sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Here Mate...Vettel has been summoned to the stewards!
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389
Feel The Fourth

sandman1347
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Here Mate...Vettel has been summoned to the stewards!
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389
I'm not sure why they are calling him to the stewards. :? There is no need for any clarification. Just look at the tape and confirm that he was indeed off the circuit. This is such a joke IMO.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Option or Prime »

Wrong thread sorry.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by DFWdude »

sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Here Mate...Vettel has been summoned to the stewards!
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389
I'm not sure why they are calling him to the stewards. :? There is no need for any clarification. Just look at the tape and confirm that he was indeed off the circuit. This is such a joke IMO.
Agreed. I imagine they are calling VET (and presumably someone from the team) to the stewards so they can get everyone's story straight. You know, how an Italian race organizer can't timely enforce its admonition (to all teams) when it involves an Italian team in front of an Italian crowd at an Italian race. I can't wait to hear the excuse.

Today's Q3 debacle is the worst I've seen since the worthless 6-car start at Indianapolis in 2005.
Last edited by DFWdude on Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Here Mate...Vettel has been summoned to the stewards!
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389
I'm not sure why they are calling him to the stewards. :? There is no need for any clarification. Just look at the tape and confirm that he was indeed off the circuit. This is such a joke IMO.
from one of the replays, i thought his front right wheel was still touching the line.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Here Mate...Vettel has been summoned to the stewards!
https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389
I'm not sure why they are calling him to the stewards. :? There is no need for any clarification. Just look at the tape and confirm that he was indeed off the circuit. This is such a joke IMO.
from one of the replays, i thought his front right wheel was still touching the line.
If the replay confirms that he was still on the circuit then the lap should stand. Either way there is no need for a conversation.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

Toni Gruner tweeted this about Bottas:

"We asked the FIA about that. According to them it's not the red flags but the time the teams are informed about the red flags that counts. And that information came shortly after Bottas crossed the line. https://twitter.com/filippghost/status/ ... 3099507712"
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by DFWdude »

My wife, who doesn't follow F1 and couldn't tell a Ferrari from a Trabant, watched the replay a couple times as I did. Even she understood, commenting "Yea, he's on the other side of the white line for sure. You can see the dark track between the front wheel and his tire."

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

F1_Ernie wrote:Toni Gruner tweeted this about Bottas:

"We asked the FIA about that. According to them it's not the red flags but the time the teams are informed about the red flags that counts. And that information came shortly after Bottas crossed the line. https://twitter.com/filippghost/status/ ... 3099507712"
I do wonder why Bottas said he lifted as he crossed the line then. it seems he was aware he needed to back off just before.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Toni Gruner tweeted this about Bottas:

"We asked the FIA about that. According to them it's not the red flags but the time the teams are informed about the red flags that counts. And that information came shortly after Bottas crossed the line. https://twitter.com/filippghost/status/ ... 3099507712"
I do wonder why Bottas said he lifted as he crossed the line then. it seems he was aware he needed to back off just before.
The same person tweeted "Mercedes data shows: Bottas lifted and lost 2 tenths in Parabolica after Raikkonen went off right ahead of him on the first Q3 run. Without that incident he would have set a time quicker than Leclerc. "

Theres also a picture showing the red light/flag was there before Bottas passed the line. I just cant believe the red flag only counts when the teams are told, that is ridiculous. Like it says Bottas only knew about the red flags after the line.
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DFWdude
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by DFWdude »

So now Vettel is cleared. What a farce... https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-summon ... each-64389

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Toni Gruner tweeted this about Bottas:

"We asked the FIA about that. According to them it's not the red flags but the time the teams are informed about the red flags that counts. And that information came shortly after Bottas crossed the line. https://twitter.com/filippghost/status/ ... 3099507712"
I do wonder why Bottas said he lifted as he crossed the line then. it seems he was aware he needed to back off just before.
The same person tweeted "Mercedes data shows: Bottas lifted and lost 2 tenths in Parabolica after Raikkonen went off right ahead of him on the first Q3 run. Without that incident he would have set a time quicker than Leclerc. "

Theres also a picture showing the red light/flag was there before Bottas passed the line. I just cant believe the red flag only counts when the teams are told, that is ridiculous. Like it says Bottas only knew about the red flags after the line.
I'm not sure if I'm buying this story about lifting. I just re-watched it and it certainly doesn't look like he backed off. I may be wrong though.

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Mayhem
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Mayhem »

No penalty for anyone

Vettel cleared on running wide
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ste ... t-turn-11/

Hulk, sainz & stroll given reprimands only
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/hul ... -incident/
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

sandman1347 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Toni Gruner tweeted this about Bottas:

"We asked the FIA about that. According to them it's not the red flags but the time the teams are informed about the red flags that counts. And that information came shortly after Bottas crossed the line. https://twitter.com/filippghost/status/ ... 3099507712"
I do wonder why Bottas said he lifted as he crossed the line then. it seems he was aware he needed to back off just before.
The same person tweeted "Mercedes data shows: Bottas lifted and lost 2 tenths in Parabolica after Raikkonen went off right ahead of him on the first Q3 run. Without that incident he would have set a time quicker than Leclerc. "

Theres also a picture showing the red light/flag was there before Bottas passed the line. I just cant believe the red flag only counts when the teams are told, that is ridiculous. Like it says Bottas only knew about the red flags after the line.
I'm not sure if I'm buying this story about lifting. I just re-watched it and it certainly doesn't look like he backed off. I may be wrong though.
Apparently Bottas did a purple mini sector through Parabolica so I dont have a clue.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by mikeyg123 »

It's an absolute scandal that they are letting Bottas go unpenalised and reopens the can of worms they closed after Hungary 2016.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

FormulaFun wrote:Why would you bring in a rule to prevent something like this? It only happened because the teams were being idiots and then the McLaren and Renault were causing a frikkin road block

Correction the Ferraris actually got passed Sainz and then decided to try and be clever and it back fired
It was Leclerc he got to the front and then in his wisdom decided to slow down again, that was the final death knell for the drivers getting their last laps in, also Vettel clearly went off the track.

https://twitter.com/Goradazzssj/status/ ... 07777?s=20
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk is atleast under investigation!

Image
Source - Imgur
Are they investigating Vettel - who did the same in an earlier run - as well?
All depends on how much Derek Warwick values his family jewels.
Derek Warwick no wonder then.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by sandman1347 »

Mayhem wrote:No penalty for anyone

Vettel cleared on running wide
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ste ... t-turn-11/

Hulk, sainz & stroll given reprimands only
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/hul ... -incident/
The Vettel thing is an absolute joke. Why did they issue that warning about this exact infraction if they then do absolutely nothing to enforce it?

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk doesn't get a penalty!
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

'The stewards report read: "In this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."'
That's Derek Warwick for you plus he managed to find just the one camera angle, the one above the car, to say there was reasonable doubt that Vettel didn't leave the track despite others showing that he did, you only need the one to show he left the track.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:And why haven't they deleted Vettel's time? He clearly had all 4 wheels off at the parabolica. They made a point of informing everyone that if you did that; not only would your lap be invalidated but the next lap would be invalidated too. Why have they let his time stand?
Derek Warwick.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

Mayhem wrote:No penalty for anyone

Vettel cleared on running wide
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/ste ... t-turn-11/

Hulk, sainz & stroll given reprimands only
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/hul ... -incident/
In F3 the drivers got the rule book thrown at then, in F1 the drivers get a slap on the wrists.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Mayhem »

pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk doesn't get a penalty!
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

'The stewards report read: "In this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."'
That's Derek Warwick for you plus he managed to find just the one camera angle, the one above the car, to say there was reasonable doubt that Vettel didn't leave the track despite others showing that he did, you only need the one to show he left the track.
So every camera angle shows vettel off the track and 1 at an obscure angle makes the other clear views wrong :thumbdown:
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:It's an absolute scandal that they are letting Bottas go unpenalised and reopens the can of worms they closed after Hungary 2016.
Yep it seems dodgy but they kind of went down that route when they decided not to penalise Vettel for track limits, the can of worms had already been opened.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Hulk doesn't get a penalty!
https://www.racefans.net/2019/09/07/no- ... ualifying/

'The stewards report read: "In this case we are unable to determine that the driver deliberately left the track."'
That's Derek Warwick for you plus he managed to find just the one camera angle, the one above the car, to say there was reasonable doubt that Vettel didn't leave the track despite others showing that he did, you only need the one to show he left the track.
So every camera angle shows vettel off the track and 1 at an obscure angle makes the other clear views wrong :thumbdown:
In a nutshell.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Mayhem »

Fia report on Vettel investigation

https://www.fia.com/file/94207/download/28948

“ Decision: No further action.

The Stewards reviewed video evidence, heard from the driver of car 5 (Sebastian Vettel) and the team representative.
The Stewards reviewed multiple camera angles, some of which appeared to show that the tyres were not in contact with the white line of the track edge however other angles appeared to show that part of the front “wheel” (when viewed from above) may have been within the bounds of the white line. This cast an element of doubt which is considered significant enough to give the “benefit of doubt” to the driver in question.
Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 9.1.1 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.”
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by pokerman »

Mayhem wrote:Fia report on Vettel investigation

https://www.fia.com/file/94207/download/28948

“ Decision: No further action.

The Stewards reviewed video evidence, heard from the driver of car 5 (Sebastian Vettel) and the team representative.
The Stewards reviewed multiple camera angles, some of which appeared to show that the tyres were not in contact with the white line of the track edge however other angles appeared to show that part of the front “wheel” (when viewed from above) may have been within the bounds of the white line. This cast an element of doubt which is considered significant enough to give the “benefit of doubt” to the driver in question.
Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 9.1.1 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.”
The actual wheel is wider than the tyre contact patch, so they found an angle that obscured the contact patch of the tyre.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Mayhem »

What’s frustrating is on a day where the FIA needed to be consistent with rule enforcement they weren’t at all.
PF1 pick 10 2016: 7th (1 win, 4 podiums), 2017: 17th (3 podiums)
Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)

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