planetf1.com
https://forum.planetf1.com/

Albon versus Verstappen
https://forum.planetf1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15653
Page 4 of 4

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


0.6 in Singapore is respectable. For reference Bottas has been 0.6-0.7 off Hamilton the last 3 seasons. Vettel would put bigger gaps on Webber here and Kimi didn’t do much better, 0.8 behind one season. Verstappen out qualified Ricciardo by 0.6 last year too.

Considering all those other drivers had driven the track before and Albon never has and he has been dropped in the car mid season and first time he has driven the car not in low downforce setup and 3rd time in total. It’s a decent performance.

Author:  F1 Racer [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


Hungary is a shorter lap and Gasly had had a full pre season and 11 race weekends and was still 0.9 off.

Verstappen had never driven Singapore in 2016 and has 0.2 behind Ricciardo by 2018 he beat Ricciardo by 0.6

Author:  Jezza13 [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.

Author:  TheGiantHogweed [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


0.6 in Singapore is respectable. For reference Bottas has been 0.6-0.7 off Hamilton the last 3 seasons. Vettel would put bigger gaps on Webber here and Kimi didn’t do much better, 0.8 behind one season. Verstappen out qualified Ricciardo by 0.6 last year too.

Considering all those other drivers had driven the track before and Albon never has and he has been dropped in the car mid season and first time he has driven the car not in low downforce setup and 3rd time in total. It’s a decent performance.

Albon consistently looked well off Verstappen throughout all the sessions though. Bottas looked messy and not quick in practice, but looked close to matching Hamilton right through qualifying until his final attempt where he made a mistake in the middle sector and hamilton also found a whole load more time. Albon may get better in time though. But even though Bottas was a huge gap behind Hamilton here yet again, I think it was only this large because of his mistake. He didn't look to be lacking pace. Given how close he was every other time, I would probably say had he kept it clean, he will have had a chance of getting starting 4th or a slim chance of beating vettel too.

Author:  TheGiantHogweed [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


Hungary is a shorter lap and Gasly had had a full pre season and 11 race weekends and was still 0.9 off.

Verstappen had never driven Singapore in 2016 and has 0.2 behind Ricciardo by 2018 he beat Ricciardo by 0.6


What happened with Kvyat though? He was nearly a second behind Gasly.

Author:  F1 Racer [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


0.6 in Singapore is respectable. For reference Bottas has been 0.6-0.7 off Hamilton the last 3 seasons. Vettel would put bigger gaps on Webber here and Kimi didn’t do much better, 0.8 behind one season. Verstappen out qualified Ricciardo by 0.6 last year too.

Considering all those other drivers had driven the track before and Albon never has and he has been dropped in the car mid season and first time he has driven the car not in low downforce setup and 3rd time in total. It’s a decent performance.

Albon consistently looked well off Verstappen throughout all the sessions though. Bottas looked messy and not quick in practice, but looked close to matching Hamilton right through qualifying until his final attempt where he made a mistake in the middle sector and hamilton also found a whole load more time. Albon may get better in time though. But even though Bottas was a huge gap behind Hamilton here yet again, I think it was only this large because of his mistake. He didn't look to be lacking pace. Given how close he was every other time, I would probably say had he kept it clean, he will have had a chance of getting starting 4th or a slim chance of beating vettel too.


Bottas’ best sectors were still 0.4 off Hamilton. The 0.7 wasn’t representative but he was still at least 0.3 off

Author:  Jezza13 [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


I don’t think anybody expected him to be the new Verstappen. That’s clear from his performance against Kyvat. Verstappen himself was out qualified in his first 7 races against Ricciardo.

In Verstappen first 3 races against Ricciardo he was out qualified by 0.420, 0.250 and 0.420. Acclimatising mid season takes time. By the end of Ricciardo vs Max, those gaps were reversed in the opposite direction.

I guess that half of the 0.6 gap is not having ever driven the track and not knowing the car, maybe more. Being 0.3 off Max (possibly the fastest in F1) at a track like Singapore would be very respectable.

Author:  F1 Racer [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.


The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.

Author:  Jezza13 [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.


The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.


That's why I said in the silly season thread that, despite Horners claims, I wouldn't write off Hulkenberg being at RB & either Albon or Gasly being without a drive in 2020

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


I'm definitely not saying Albon's good. I'm just saying ATM, he appears not to be as bad as Gasly.


Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.


The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.


0.5 is within a pit stop. First stops were laps 24-25. That’s 12 second behind or let’s say 16 seconds due to spread. The pit delta was 22-23 seconds. He also would have a had a shot at starting 4th, not 6th.

Author:  F1 Racer [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.


The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.


0.5 is within a pit stop. First stops were laps 24-25. That’s 12 second behind or let’s say 16 seconds due to spread. The pit delta was 22-23 seconds. He also would have a had a shot at starting 4th, not 6th.


Err... two thirds race distance at Singapore is about 42 laps so 41 x 0.6 + 1 x 5 (first lap field spread) = 30 seconds behind so he wouldn't be within a pit stop. Your numbers are wrong sir.

Not quite sure why you are talking about the first stops when even the lead midfield cars like the McLaren's at many tracks, or Danny Ric in Italy are often not a pit stop behind by the first pit window.

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

F1 Racer wrote:
Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Not being as bad as Gasly doesn't mean much, and I'm not saying that he is worse than Gasly either so not sure why you are trying to point this out. Albon is not going to pull up trees in F1 is he?


Look, all I'm saying is that, according to Christian Horner & Helmut Marko, to hold on to the RB drive next season, all Albon has to do is show he's faster than Gasly. Now, based on tonight's results compared against how Gasly went in his last race for RB in Hungary, Albon is doing that.

I'm in no way insinuating Albon is fast & being 1/2 a sec off you're team-mate is not a glowing comparison by any means. Nor an I saying he's good or that he deserve's a seat in RB in particular or F1 in general. I'm simply saying that so far, based on his superiors words, he appears to be doing enough to be able to hold on to the RB drive next year.

Let me put it this way, If Verstappen's the Lion and he's chasing after both Gasly & Albon, then Albon doesn't have to be fast enough to be able to out run the Lion, he just has to be fast enough to out run Gasly.

I hope that analogy works.


The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.


0.5 is within a pit stop. First stops were laps 24-25. That’s 12 second behind or let’s say 16 seconds due to spread. The pit delta was 22-23 seconds. He also would have a had a shot at starting 4th, not 6th.


wo thirds race distance at Singapore is about 42 laps so 41 x 0.6 + 1 x 5 (first lap field spread) = 30 seconds behind so he wouldn't be within a pit stop. Your numbers are wrong sir.

Not quite sure why you are talking about the first stops when even the lead midfield cars like the McLaren's at many tracks, or Danny Ric in Italy are often not a pit stop behind by the first pit window.


7 of the last 8 dry races have been won with a 1 stop. The only exception is Hamilton in Hungary switching to an unorthodox 2 stopper as overtaking Verstappen was impossible on equal tyres.

Unless a SC gives a free pit stop or somebody is trying something different, F1 races are almost always 1 stoppers.

So that’s why I’m talking about the first stop.

Singapore is typically a very early 1 stopper. Hamilton stopped on lap 16/61 last year.

Author:  pokerman [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.

Actually he's not, this is the first representative time we've been able to see because of engine penalties, also Gasly consistently out qualifying Kvyat suggests that Albon's level isn't currently any better, of course given his inexperience Albon has room to improve but that's no guarantee.

Author:  F1 Racer [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

The superiors also said in Hungary that they wanted a number two that could be within a pit stop at two thirds race distance to prevent Hamilton stopping for fresh rubber, and at the moment Albon being 0.5+ seconds per lap off Max means he is not able to stay within that pit stop window and be in the mix essentially.

They made the ''Just be better than Gasly'' comments to not put pressure on Albon, (so he is performing badly despite no pressure being put on him meaning that he is doing even worse). Privately they must realise that he is not looking good enough right now if they want to properly compete with Mercedes and Ferrari next year.


0.5 is within a pit stop. First stops were laps 24-25. That’s 12 second behind or let’s say 16 seconds due to spread. The pit delta was 22-23 seconds. He also would have a had a shot at starting 4th, not 6th.


wo thirds race distance at Singapore is about 42 laps so 41 x 0.6 + 1 x 5 (first lap field spread) = 30 seconds behind so he wouldn't be within a pit stop. Your numbers are wrong sir.

Not quite sure why you are talking about the first stops when even the lead midfield cars like the McLaren's at many tracks, or Danny Ric in Italy are often not a pit stop behind by the first pit window.


7 of the last 8 dry races have been won with a 1 stop. The only exception is Hamilton in Hungary switching to an unorthodox 2 stopper as overtaking Verstappen was impossible on equal tyres.

Unless a SC gives a free pit stop or somebody is trying something different, F1 races are almost always 1 stoppers.

So that’s why I’m talking about the first stop.

Singapore is typically a very early 1 stopper. Hamilton stopped on lap 16/61 last year.


Yes but I was talking about Hungary and the principle about covering off an extra stop for fresh rubber from the second placed driver and you were responding to me and trying to refute this, (or rather trying to attempt to refute this but doing it badly), so you can't be mentioning irrelevant races that just have one stop and no need for the second place driver to try and do something different. Max very likely would have won in Hungary if the second Red Bull was closer and within a pit stop when Hamilton and Mercedes were considering to pit again.

Author:  Johnson [ Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

My misunderstanding I thought you were referring to future races, in which case being within 0.4-0.5 would cover rivals pit stops about 80-90% of the time (frequency of 1 stop races).

Albon is 3 races into being put in mid season, I think you are being harsh on him. Drop Hamilton into that car and Max would likely be 0.2-0.3 ahead.

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.

Actually he's not, this is the first representative time we've been able to see because of engine penalties, also Gasly consistently out qualifying Kvyat suggests that Albon's level isn't currently any better, of course given his inexperience Albon has room to improve but that's no guarantee.


The 0.6 gap is generally better than Gasly considering this is the track that typically produces the biggest gaps between team mates.

Author:  Todd [ Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Albon versus Verstappen

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Johnson wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Albon is looking pretty darn slow to me. 0.6 seconds off Max is far too much.


Not when you think that Gasly qualified 0.9 behind Verstappen in Hungary. If you believe Horner & Marko, all Albon has to do is show he's closer to Verstappen than Gasly was to hold on to the gig next year & so far he's doing that.


It's easy to get closer to someone when that driver was 0.9 off.

Being 0.6 off the pace is terrible and he is not looking like a top driver, (when including his poor relative pace in Belgium and Italy in the mix). He may be the second best driver on their books at the moment, (debateable as the average Kyvat is likely better), but that doesn't mean he is a good in an absolute sense. Even if he somehow gets kept on next season, he will be slow and just keeping the seat warm for another driver essentially.

I am calling it now: Albon is fairly bad.


Hungary is a shorter lap and Gasly had had a full pre season and 11 race weekends and was still 0.9 off.

Verstappen had never driven Singapore in 2016 and has 0.2 behind Ricciardo by 2018 he beat Ricciardo by 0.6


What happened with Kvyat though? He was nearly a second behind Gasly.


Kvyat missed all of FP3 when his race powertrain went up in smoke, having lost another in the race at Monza. Who knows what he ran in qualifying, possibly used up pieces from the first races of the year with no morning practice.

Page 4 of 4 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/