Albon versus Verstappen
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:15 pm
How will Albon's first race at Red Bull go? How do people think he will fare against his much more experienced team mate?
Inevitable that ALL new F1 drivers prang the new car more than once when they first get into it isn't it. How else do you find the limits?MistaVega23 wrote:I predict an FP2 crash and on the backfoot for the rest of the weekend.
At least he can put it down to inexperience of the RBR. Personally I hope he has a solid first weekend.Option or Prime wrote:Inevitable that ALL new F1 drivers prang the new car more than once when they first get into it isn't it. How else do you find the limits?MistaVega23 wrote:I predict an FP2 crash and on the backfoot for the rest of the weekend.
That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
It is accurate. He outscored Ricciardo due to luck in 2015, and was being thrashed to the tune of about half a second per lap on average in 2016. His oft-mentioned podium came after Ricciardo had been leading the race but took a puncture: Ricciardo came back to finish right behind him anyway.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Yep but do we ever see a driver getting sacked for making bad mistake whilst beating their team mate? It doesn't happen.Covalent wrote:Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Trulli at Renault springs to mind. But yeah I get your point.mikeyg123 wrote:Yep but do we ever see a driver getting sacked for making bad mistake whilst beating their team mate? It doesn't happen.Covalent wrote:Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote: That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.
So you're saying had he had a "normal" race (without hitting Vettel) in Sochi he'd have been sacked anyway?Exediron wrote:It is accurate. He outscored Ricciardo due to luck in 2015, and was being thrashed to the tune of about half a second per lap on average in 2016. His oft-mentioned podium came after Ricciardo had been leading the race but took a puncture: Ricciardo came back to finish right behind him anyway.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
I think he would.Covalent wrote:So you're saying had he had a "normal" race (without hitting Vettel) in Sochi he'd have been sacked anyway?Exediron wrote:It is accurate. He outscored Ricciardo due to luck in 2015, and was being thrashed to the tune of about half a second per lap on average in 2016. His oft-mentioned podium came after Ricciardo had been leading the race but took a puncture: Ricciardo came back to finish right behind him anyway.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Alienturnedhuman wrote:Kyvat was sacked because Verstappen was better, not because he was performing badly. The first two races of 2016 used that really stupid elimination format in qualifying and it caught a lot of teams out (and I seem to remember Kyvat was very unexpected eliminated in Australia)
Yes he hit Vettel in Sochi - but at least he was in a position to hit Vettel in Sochi. Gasly would be punting out Grosjean and that really wouldn't have the same controversy.
Was Kyvat under performing - it's difficult to say conclusively although it's clear he wasn't at Ricciardo's level, however he was no where near as woeful as Gasly has been. Red Bull were looking for an excuse to create a space for Max in the main team, if they had Gasly and Albon as their Toro Rosso drivers in 2016 Kyvat would have still been driving for the main team in 2017.
Not at all Exediron - but one thought some blind optimism would lighten the predicament.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Good point at some point they may have to bite the bullet and employ a top 10 F1 driver if their juniors continue to get nowhere near Verstappen.Todd wrote:At some point Honda is going to insist on a driver of its own selection if Red Bull continues to refuse to use both cars to compete for second in the WCC.
So he hits the ground running at Ricciardo level, unlikely I would have thought?M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
He was getting slaughtered by Ricciardo in qualifying and the podium was a bit of a fluke as several front running cars crashed/got damaged on the opening lap.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
How was it a bad mistake replacing Kvyat with Verstappen, for starters Verstappen won the first race.Covalent wrote:Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote:That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.M44 wrote:Albon will hit in the ground running..
Within 2 tenths in Q3. Marginal on race pace differential.
Indeed how was it, and who has said it was?pokerman wrote:How was it a bad mistake replacing Kvyat with Verstappen, for starters Verstappen won the first race.Covalent wrote:Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote:That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.Exediron wrote: That's a bold prediction. You think Albon is as good as Ricciardo, a driver who beat Kvyat so badly he got kicked out of Red Bull? Albon has been roughly on par with Kvyat so far.
This wouldn't surprise me either but hoping Albon can get much nearer, Albon actually has some good pedigree maybe better ultimate potential than the likes of Gasly?Jenson's Understeer wrote:He's going to be just as far back as Gasly was, if not further while he gets up to speed with the different car. I don't even think he'll ultimately end up any closer to Max than Pierre was.
Sorry I mistook that as saying it was a bad mistake by Red Bull.Covalent wrote:Indeed how was it, and who has said it was?pokerman wrote:How was it a bad mistake replacing Kvyat with Verstappen, for starters Verstappen won the first race.Covalent wrote:Bad mistakes are bad mistakes regardless of what your teammate is doing.mikeyg123 wrote:Well no, if he had been doing better than Ricciardo he wouldn't have got the push. He got demoted because Red Bull felt they had a better driver in the junior team.Covalent wrote: That's not really accurate, he wasn't kicked out of Red Bull because he was beaten by Ricciardo but rather because he made some silly mistakes (in largely on single race). Up to that point he had the only podium of the year for the team, and beat Ricciardo in the points in the previous season.
I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?JN23 wrote:If Albon ends up being as far away as Gasly was FROM Verstappen, then what is the conclusion?
We underrated Gasly when he was getting smashed by Verstappen, or they are both bottom end F1 drivers and Verstappen isn't doing anything special?
Or something else?
It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.pokerman wrote:I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?JN23 wrote:If Albon ends up being as far away as Gasly was FROM Verstappen, then what is the conclusion?
We underrated Gasly when he was getting smashed by Verstappen, or they are both bottom end F1 drivers and Verstappen isn't doing anything special?
Or something else?
Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.
Leclerc was teammates with Albon in GP3, ask Leclerc how good Albon is, Norris had a picture of Albon on his bedroom wall during their karting years a period of time were Albon got picked up by Red Bull.Yellowbin74 wrote:Hard to say - he won't match Max though.
Albon didn't exactly set the world alight in GP2 / F2.
Yes Verstappen was a bit lucky to win but what was impressive about him was how he was able to keep pace with the leaders, he was only 1 second behind Ricciardo before he was sent down the strategy rabbit hole.Yellowbin74 wrote: If I recall correctly (no guarantees!), didn't Dan get hung out to dry on strategy on this one?
I'm not saying that Max wouldn't have won it, or didn't deserve the victory, but I can't help but feel that RB wanted Max to win that to get the record of youngest winner.
No chance. Not even a slight one.F1 Racer wrote:He will likely be destroyed by Max. I think it will be good to see that as then Alonso has a slight chance at a Red Bull seat for 2020.
In part but still qualifying poorly in junction with poor starts has seen slower cars getting past him and then that's were his races have often unravalled.mikeyg123 wrote:It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.pokerman wrote:I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?JN23 wrote:If Albon ends up being as far away as Gasly was FROM Verstappen, then what is the conclusion?
We underrated Gasly when he was getting smashed by Verstappen, or they are both bottom end F1 drivers and Verstappen isn't doing anything special?
Or something else?
Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.
It hasn't helped but he hasn't had any pace when he's been in among them in the race either. If he had the pace he'd have been able to fight his way out of the midfield after a poor start.pokerman wrote:In part but still qualifying poorly in junction with poor starts has seen slower cars getting past him and then that's were his races have often unravalled.mikeyg123 wrote:It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.pokerman wrote:I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?JN23 wrote:If Albon ends up being as far away as Gasly was FROM Verstappen, then what is the conclusion?
We underrated Gasly when he was getting smashed by Verstappen, or they are both bottom end F1 drivers and Verstappen isn't doing anything special?
Or something else?
Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.
Firstly it's not just the races where the issue was, it was also qualifying. A slow driver in qualifying is usually slow in the race too and Gasly was really bad at both.mikeyg123 wrote:It's not quali that's the issue so much it's how far he was falling back in races. He was lapped in 2 out of the last 4 races by his team mate. I mean, Kubica is getting some criticism but he isn't getting lapped by Russell. Albon's task will be to beat the midfield. If he can always finish ahead of everyone but the Mercedes, the Ferrari's and Verstappen then I think that will be regarded as enough for a go in 2020. If he fails in that, and if Kvyat doesn't smash Gasly then I think they will look outside the program.pokerman wrote: I think it's something inbetween, they don't expect the drivers to be as quick as Verstappen but 5 tenths is too much, 3 tenths I think they would except?
Obviously then in respect to Gasly they're seeing him as a bottom end F1 driver.