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TheGiantHogweed wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:Mercedes may well now feel vindicated by their decision to retain Bottas. After the Belgian grand Prix he was 65 points behind Hamilton, he is now 67 points behind Hamilton. He's kept pace over this second half of the season.

Japan and USA especially stand out as very strong performances, and his race pace in Mexico was also excellent. If he can eliminate that saggy middle out of his season (Hockenheim was a woefully squandered opportunity to tighten things at the top) then he could mount a serious title challenge next year.

We have heard this for the last 3 years and after every race win.

But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

A very strong season from Bottas, if Hamilton had had 2016 levels of reliability and luck - Bottas would have won the title this year. Unlucky for him that year fell for Rosberg.

F1_Ernie wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote: But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.

F1 Racer wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote: But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.

And I believe Toto stated that Mercedes will look to continue this new trend for next season.


Anyway, right now I don't see Bottas as being any worse than Vettel or Leclerc, but he must prove he can continue such a standard for more than a season.

F1_Ernie wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

BMWSauber84 wrote:Mercedes may well now feel vindicated by their decision to retain Bottas. After the Belgian grand Prix he was 65 points behind Hamilton, he is now 67 points behind Hamilton. He's kept pace over this second half of the season.

Japan and USA especially stand out as very strong performances, and his race pace in Mexico was also excellent. If he can eliminate that saggy middle out of his season (Hockenheim was a woefully squandered opportunity to tighten things at the top) then he could mount a serious title challenge next year.

We have heard this for the last 3 years and after every race win.

But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

I'm basically saying that i think he looks to have improved this year. You surely must admit he has been more balanced... To me it seems that you want to be against the few people who think he's had a better season. I wasn't one thinking he would start challenging Hamilton constantly because of his first win this season. I thought some of it was a bit over the top. I am not expecting bottas to beat Hamilton, but he has been better this season and based on this, it is not unreasonable to base his performance from 3 recent races which he has been great in. The same stage of season where he looked poor both previous years.

He is looking better this year, that is for sure. That is comparing his two previous seasons.

Johnson wrote:A very strong season from Bottas, if Hamilton had had 2016 levels of reliability and luck - Bottas would have won the title this year. Unlucky for him that year fell for Rosberg.

Plus Bottas colliding with Hamilton.

Invade wrote:

F1 Racer wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote: But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.

And I believe Toto stated that Mercedes will look to continue this new trend for next season.


Anyway, right now I don't see Bottas as being any worse than Vettel or Leclerc, but he must prove he can continue such a standard for more than a season.

I'm happy to hear that because I don't want another Japan.

F1 Racer wrote:

F1_Ernie wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote: But we haven't seen Bottas this strong at this stage of the season. He was convincingly strong the last 3 races and overtook hamilton twice here. When does that ever happen? I think there is more of a clear picture that Bottas has improved a bit this time.

I know you like to hold onto any hope possible and after Australia all we heard about this was the new Bottas and his beard etc, it happens after every grand prix win for the last 3 years. Even Paul Di Resta would have overtaken Hamilton today, Bottas was past before they even reached the corner.

What Bottas needs is a 2 car advantage like 14-16 because he is fine at the front with both cars running the same strategy, all cars equal then he is the 5th best driver in the top teams and probably has the 5th best race craft too.

The problem for Bottas now though is that a pattern has been established where Hamilton is allowed to go for an alternative strategy if he is behind, (which worked in Britain and probably in Japan also, and gave Hamilton a chance to win in USA too). When Rosberg was there, both drivers were forced to stay on the same strategy out of fairness, but all this ever did was just keep the status quo between them and not allow any proper racing.

Well that's not quite true is it? In Silverstone both drivers requested the ability to change strategy if they wanted. That was agreed, with Bottas having first pick of the strategies. The fact Ham was behind was coincidental. I have seen nothing from COTA that changes that. As Bottas confirmed re COTA, he didn't have the tyres under him to do a one stop, whereas with Ham they stuck to the original strategy.
Notwithstanding that it does look like the old Mercedes fixed strategies are hopefully a thing of the past.

Well, with Bottas starting at the back of the grid this race, he has pretty much lost his chance to outscore Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season, which actually could have been a realistic chance. As Hamilton got a penalty last time out and even with Bottas retiring, Hamilton still has only scored 8 more points than Bottas since the summer break.

We have still got one more race for him to do, but I'd say the 2nd half of this season has been Bottas's most consistent performance against hamilton since he came to Mercedes. He had a dip in the middle of this season, but also a strong start, so overall has certainly been a good one.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Well, with Bottas starting at the back of the grid this race, he has pretty much lost his chance to outscore Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season, which actually could have been a realistic chance. As Hamilton got a penalty last time out and even with Bottas retiring, Hamilton still has only scored 8 more points than Bottas since the summer break.

We have still got one more race for him to do, but I'd say the 2nd half of this season has been Bottas's most consistent performance against hamilton since he came to Mercedes. He had a dip in the middle of this season, but also a strong start, so overall has certainly been a good one.

It's certainly been his best season IMO.

mikeyg123 wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Well, with Bottas starting at the back of the grid this race, he has pretty much lost his chance to outscore Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season, which actually could have been a realistic chance. As Hamilton got a penalty last time out and even with Bottas retiring, Hamilton still has only scored 8 more points than Bottas since the summer break.

We have still got one more race for him to do, but I'd say the 2nd half of this season has been Bottas's most consistent performance against hamilton since he came to Mercedes. He had a dip in the middle of this season, but also a strong start, so overall has certainly been a good one.

It's certainly been his best season IMO.

Do you think? Maybe, but not certainly. Certainly better than 2018 though.

I think there is a case for 2017 was overall his strongest. He finshed 58 points behind Hamilton and had one mechanical DNF more, blowing up in Spain.

If Hamilton had had one mechanical DNF more, blowing up in Spain and not Bottas. Bottas would have finsihed just 15 points behind him and taken the title fight to the final race. Amazing how 1 DNF swing can change an entire season. Bottas actually ran Hamilton closer than Rosberg did in 2014 and 2015 if you adjust them for mechanical DNFs.

Certainly hasn't been a good year off the track. Bottas is getting divorced?

https://twitter.com/ValtteriBottas/stat ... 3773369348

I wonder what happened. They seemed like a nice couple.

kleefton wrote:Certainly hasn't been a good year off the track. Bottas is getting divorced?

https://twitter.com/ValtteriBottas/stat ... 3773369348

I wonder what happened. They seemed like a nice couple.

It does seems related to his F1 career and the commitments he has to make, he said he's going to come back stronger next year and who knows this could be part of it as we see unleashed Bottas 3.0, rise of the Bottas.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Well, with Bottas starting at the back of the grid this race, he has pretty much lost his chance to outscore Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season, which actually could have been a realistic chance. As Hamilton got a penalty last time out and even with Bottas retiring, Hamilton still has only scored 8 more points than Bottas since the summer break.

We have still got one more race for him to do, but I'd say the 2nd half of this season has been Bottas's most consistent performance against hamilton since he came to Mercedes. He had a dip in the middle of this season, but also a strong start, so overall has certainly been a good one.

That’s flattering to Bottas, Hamilton has lots points chasing wins and subsequently dropping places. They have been far from equal in the 2nd half. Hamilton has won or been in contention to win every single race since the summer break. 8/8. Bottas has been in contention to win 2 of the 8 races and he won both with great drives. He has had 2 great races and 3-4 so-so races over that period.

Johnson wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:Well, with Bottas starting at the back of the grid this race, he has pretty much lost his chance to outscore Hamilton in the 2nd half of the season, which actually could have been a realistic chance. As Hamilton got a penalty last time out and even with Bottas retiring, Hamilton still has only scored 8 more points than Bottas since the summer break.

We have still got one more race for him to do, but I'd say the 2nd half of this season has been Bottas's most consistent performance against hamilton since he came to Mercedes. He had a dip in the middle of this season, but also a strong start, so overall has certainly been a good one.

That’s flattering to Bottas, Hamilton has lots points chasing wins and subsequently dropping places. They have been far from equal in the 2nd half. Hamilton has won or been in contention to win every single race since the summer break. 8/8. Bottas has been in contention to win 2 of the 8 races and he won both with great drives. He has had 2 great races and 3-4 so-so races over that period.

Quite a few of Hamilton's races have been compromised, Singapore, Monza, Japan and Brazil although I guess in Brazil Bottas had a DNF.