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Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:34 pm
by UnlikeUday
For me,

Verstappen, Leclerc & Gasly

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:37 pm
by Fiki
You forgot Mayländer in the list. :D

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:39 pm
by Paolo_Lasardi
Leclerc & Verstappen
Hamilton

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:40 pm
by mikeyg123
Leclerc the only nomination from me today.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:44 pm
by Fiki
mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
I agree; that was one serious lesson to all the bargers in the field, Verstappen included. I'm seriously impressed by this driver.

Edit: I voted Leclerc, Gasly and Ricciardo. How Ric was able to stay in Sainz's slipstream was impressive.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:46 pm
by Mercedes-Benz
Max, Kimi, Kvyat. Gasly finally did a decent job. If could have kept Charles behind I would have voted for him.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:01 pm
by Jezza13
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
I agree; that was one serious lesson to all the bargers in the field, Verstappen included. I'm seriously impressed by this driver.
Agree. Leclerc's the real deal.

Already has a pole position to his name. Probably would've won Bahrain if not for car problems. Could've won Austria if not for a dodgy move. If not for 3 or 4 dodgy decisions from the pit wall sacrificing his race to help Vettel he could easily be 3rd in the championship.

Voted for Leclerc & Sainz.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm
by j man
I voted Leclerc. Given that shoving others off the track is considered acceptable by the stewards, it was good to see him getting his elbows out against Verstappen after being bullied off last time out.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:16 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:17 pm
by lucifers
mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
I agree

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:18 pm
by Blinky McSquinty
Sainz my first pick, and Ricciardo second for the same reason. Both drivers drove an excellent race and got the maximum their cars could deliver. Leclerc third. The man definitely stamped his authority within Ferrari.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:20 pm
by Greenman
.

Someone voted for Vettel !

.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:42 pm
by Invade
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
Does every post need to be this sort of comparison?

Tunnel vision, mate.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:43 pm
by Invade
lucifers wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
I agree
Leclerc sure learned his lessons quickly from Austria. Stout defence indeed.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:57 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
Invade wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
Does every post need to be this sort of comparison?

Tunnel vision, mate.
well you are hardly commenting on what the issue with my post is other than what seems like i am seeing things wrong.....

I am just questioning the voted for Hamilton given it was only down to luck that he got this win for certain. We can't be sure that Bottas won't have managed to keep Hamilton behind if the strategy was the same and there was no safety car.

I commented because i saw others going for Hamilton without really giving a reason. I don't see a problem with me writing what i think...

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:00 pm
by cmberry20
Greenman wrote:.

Someone voted for Vettel !

.
Make that two!

Disillusional Ferrari fans are Disillusional.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:14 pm
by F1_Ernie
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:59 pm
by WHoff78
What a fantastic race. Some impressive drives up front too. Fantastic defensive driving from Leclerc under a lot of pressure from Max - good opportune move out of the pits and great overtake on Gasly. Verstappen was great too I thought. Heaped pressure on Leclerc for a number of laps, and Vettel. He often makes chasing look easier than the rest out there. Maybe some of that is the car characteristics but it's entertaining. Hamilton also pressured Bottas for a long time, and kept the tyres good enough to maintain competitive lap times until Lap 20/21. and then the lap at the end - I don't think it's a coincidence that Hamilton excels on harder tyres. Hamilton has the ability to adapt and perform well regardless of the regulations but I would love to see him racing in regulations with less dependency on tyre wear. That said, there would be less overtaking down the order so I am not necessarily complaining about the regs (let's just hope they don't bring back refueling).

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:36 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:44 pm
by FormulaFun
100% leclerc.

He was racing with perfect amount of aggression, really showed the aggressive driving that he has after austria, and basically intimidated verstappen off the track after first round of pits, verstappen had truly met his match and held him off until Ferrari screwed Leclerc out of it.

Then the stunning overtake around the outside of gasly.

Wow what a racer he was today

Honourable mention to Hamilton for that last lap, probably would have won regardless of the safety car with that pace and would have been able to one stop anyway to win

Dishonourable mention, vettel, that guy is broken

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:56 pm
by mcdo
j man wrote:I voted Leclerc. Given that shoving others off the track is considered acceptable by the stewards, it was good to see him getting his elbows out against Verstappen after being bullied off last time out.
Exactly what he needed to do after Austria :thumbup:

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:38 pm
by F1_Ernie
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:49 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.
Well, I thought i had said before - I do think it was very obvious that Hamilton was faster. But I don't think there is enough evidence to imply he was significantly faster. If that was the case, I don't think Hamilton would still be behind Bottas 16 laps into the race. I thought it had been mentioned before that a significant pace advantage should be enough to complete an overtake on the same car. Hamilton wasn't successful with his only realistic attempt. Bottas had him covered for the rest of it - another 12 laps until he pitted. Hamilton looked quicker concidering the tyres for the tyres he was on the rest of it. But my point is that if he had come out behind Bottas again, I'm still not sure he will have got past at any stage other than when Bottas next pitted. But then that will have been strategy that won Hamilton the race, not getting by Bottas.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 pm
by sandman1347
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.
Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:03 pm
by Flash2k11
Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.

That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.

Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.

Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:07 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
sandman1347 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.

I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.
Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.
You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Admittedly, i do do a large amount mentioning him, but i'm sometimes surprised by the number of posts with just a brief sentence about Hamilton's without explaining much. I see them more than enough. But i don't complain. Several others looked like they thought Bottas did the job for the win without Hamilton's good luck and strategy today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:09 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.

That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.

Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.

Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:12 pm
by Flash2k11
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.

That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.

Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.

Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.
The car is terrible, but neither of them are exactly making the best of a bad situation. Magnussen is at fault for breaking rule #1 about racing your team mate, but Grosjean has a rap sheet just as bad.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:18 pm
by mikeyg123
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.

That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.

Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.

Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.
Grosjean had a poor weekend. Spinning in the pitlane was just embarrassing.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:19 pm
by sandman1347
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.
Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.
You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Several others looked like they thought he did the job for the win today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.
Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:36 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I don't deny that anywhere.

I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.
Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.
You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Several others looked like they thought he did the job for the win today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.
Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:39 pm
by Invade
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Not about if you're right or wrong, it's about the obsession with this particular comparison even in threads not dedicated to the two drivers.


Dunno if this sheds any light on this particular debate...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... s/4495190/

I appreciate that I'm not helping by perpetuating this very debate in this thread.

This will be the last I speak of it here.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:48 pm
by sandman1347
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:53 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
Invade wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Not about if you're right or wrong, it's about the obsession with this particular comparison even in threads not dedicated to the two drivers.


Dunno if this sheds any light on this particular debate...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... s/4495190/

I appreciate that I'm not helping by perpetuating this very debate in this thread.

This will be the last I speak of it here.
Yea it does help a bit and looks like the strategy for the driver in 2nd position at the time of the pit stops would run a hard tyre in the middle of the race. This was Hamilton but he obviously made it last the the end which didn't look to be the plan. But he made it work very well. However for Bottas, it looked like they had done what they had planned to do for the driver leading when they pitted. I'm not convinced it was because he ruined his tyres though.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:59 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.

That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.

Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.

Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.
Grosjean had a poor weekend. Spinning in the pitlane was just embarrassing.
Yea that was pretty poor. But soemthing i found funny about it is that he did it when both Grosjean and Magnussen had been mentioning how many issues the car seems to have been having recently. He crashed. Then got his wing replaced with the old speck one. And he actually commented that it was better. He's maybe helped the team a bit? Then in qualifying, it may possibly explain how he managed to get out of Q1.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:05 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
Fair enough. I don't agree with everything, but it is obvious few will agree with me. Sorry - i have taken this too far, especially given the thread it is in. I still think my first comment in this thread was reasonable even if others disagree. But after i read a comment on it i ended up taking it to far.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:06 pm
by Mort Canard
Hamilton, Leclerc, Sainz.
Honorable mention to Bottas, Norris and Verstappen.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:37 pm
by sandman1347
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
Fair enough. I don't agree with everything, but it is obvious few will agree with me. Sorry - i have taken this too far, especially given the thread it is in. I still think my first comment in this thread was reasonable even if others disagree. But after i read a comment on it i ended up taking it to far.
There's no need to apologize man.

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 pm
by Covalent
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?

Re: Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:35 pm
by sandman1347
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.

I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.

Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.

If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?
Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...