Driver(s) of the Day - 2019 British Grand Prix
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:34 pm
For me,
Verstappen, Leclerc & Gasly
Verstappen, Leclerc & Gasly
I agree; that was one serious lesson to all the bargers in the field, Verstappen included. I'm seriously impressed by this driver.mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
Agree. Leclerc's the real deal.Fiki wrote:I agree; that was one serious lesson to all the bargers in the field, Verstappen included. I'm seriously impressed by this driver.mikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
I agreemikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
Does every post need to be this sort of comparison?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
Leclerc sure learned his lessons quickly from Austria. Stout defence indeed.lucifers wrote:I agreemikeyg123 wrote:Leclerc the only nomination from me today.
well you are hardly commenting on what the issue with my post is other than what seems like i am seeing things wrong.....Invade wrote:Does every post need to be this sort of comparison?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
Tunnel vision, mate.
Make that two!Greenman wrote:.
Someone voted for Vettel !
.
First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
I don't deny that anywhere.F1_Ernie wrote:First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
Exactly what he needed to do after Austriaj man wrote:I voted Leclerc. Given that shoving others off the track is considered acceptable by the stewards, it was good to see him getting his elbows out against Verstappen after being bullied off last time out.
I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I don't deny that anywhere.F1_Ernie wrote:First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
Well, I thought i had said before - I do think it was very obvious that Hamilton was faster. But I don't think there is enough evidence to imply he was significantly faster. If that was the case, I don't think Hamilton would still be behind Bottas 16 laps into the race. I thought it had been mentioned before that a significant pace advantage should be enough to complete an overtake on the same car. Hamilton wasn't successful with his only realistic attempt. Bottas had him covered for the rest of it - another 12 laps until he pitted. Hamilton looked quicker concidering the tyres for the tyres he was on the rest of it. But my point is that if he had come out behind Bottas again, I'm still not sure he will have got past at any stage other than when Bottas next pitted. But then that will have been strategy that won Hamilton the race, not getting by Bottas.F1_Ernie wrote:I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I don't deny that anywhere.F1_Ernie wrote:First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.F1_Ernie wrote:I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I don't deny that anywhere.F1_Ernie wrote:First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Admittedly, i do do a large amount mentioning him, but i'm sometimes surprised by the number of posts with just a brief sentence about Hamilton's without explaining much. I see them more than enough. But i don't complain. Several others looked like they thought Bottas did the job for the win without Hamilton's good luck and strategy today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.sandman1347 wrote:Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.F1_Ernie wrote:I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I don't deny that anywhere.F1_Ernie wrote:First of all Hamilton stayed within a second behind Bottas for a very long time, how often do we see this in the same cars on the same strategy? To do this is pretty impressive and showed a big pace advantage IMO. Not sure what the delta would have needed to be for an overtake at Silverstone between equal cars?TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think the only stand out moment of Hamilton's race was his fastest lap at the end. That really surprised me. Otherwise, good fortune made his race look better than it was. Bottas had a good start and given the amount of overtaking we have seen today, if Hamilton was that much quicker than Bottas, he would have been able to pass him or close the gap enough when Bottas pitted. Neither of these happened Hamilton was certainly faster, but i don't think there was much in it given he couldn't stay ahead even though he looked to have got by Bottas at one stage. If there had been no safety car and they both had the same strategy, given how aggressive Bottas was looking this race, I think he will have just about managed to keep Hamilton behind him. He managed in Baku.
I know that there is only 3 options, but if Hamilton gets a vote, I think Bottas should too really.
When Bottas pitted he put on fresh mediums, how do you expect a driver to close the gap on old mediums or do you mean just before Bottas pitted? Bottas didn't really make big inroads into Hamilton even with fresh tyres which shows how impressive Hamilton was to be able to hold a 17.5 gap even with older tyres and being in dirty air for 16 laps.
When Bottas was on mediums and Hamilton on the hards what sort of impression did Bottas make on Hamilton after the SC? Hamilton put in fastest lap on 32 lap old tyres. IMO Bottas showed his normal race pace and Hamilton was impressive, if these cars could race and overtake then Hamilton would have been gone in the distance.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.
That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.
Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.
Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
The car is terrible, but neither of them are exactly making the best of a bad situation. Magnussen is at fault for breaking rule #1 about racing your team mate, but Grosjean has a rap sheet just as bad.TheGiantHogweed wrote:Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.
That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.
Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.
Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Grosjean had a poor weekend. Spinning in the pitlane was just embarrassing.TheGiantHogweed wrote:Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.
That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.
Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.
Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!TheGiantHogweed wrote:You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Several others looked like they thought he did the job for the win today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.sandman1347 wrote:Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.F1_Ernie wrote:I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I don't deny that anywhere.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote:Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!TheGiantHogweed wrote:You are stretching it a bit..... I do plenty of posts unrelated to Bottas. I just have a different opinion it seems. Several others looked like they thought he did the job for the win today. If I just say who I think had done the job to beat Hamilton, I feel I would get a load of comments demanding an explanation. So I try my best to go into more detail which i do about other drivers a lot of the time too. But yes, maybe it isn't worth it if people are going to effectively complain about it.sandman1347 wrote:Honestly, when it comes to this poster, his every post every single race weekend seems focused on propping up Bottas relative to Hamilton. It's a pointless conversation to be involved in. I see no way Bottas would have won this race. he stopped early because he chewed through his tires and the team took the opportunity to split their strategies rather than continue to have Bottas hold Hamilton up.F1_Ernie wrote:I'm not really sure how one corner and straight can decide Hamilton wasnt that much faster. Identical cars, Bottas might have got better drive out the corner, who had the better line then theres slipstream. One corner and a straight doesnt really change that Hamilton was much faster. Hamilton didn't even defend it either.TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I don't deny that anywhere.
I know Hamilton looked closer to Bottas time wise than often is the case for cars to be able to follow, but if he was that much faster, I don't understand how Bottas managed to retake the position. Also, by the time Bottas pitted, Hamilton was 1.5 seconds behind. I don't know if this was deliberate or not though. I don't know why they had different strategies, but still, Hamilton will have come out behind and he would still have been stuck behind Bottas even if he was quicker. I know Bottas had to pit again, but I don't understand why they put him on a different strategy to Hamilton. If Mercedes had done what they normally do and do next to identical strategies, I think Bottas will have kept Hamilton behind. When has there been a non team order overtake other than on the first lap with these 2 drivers? A year ago at this track near the end? That was a long time ago. And Bottas's tyres were past the tyres recommended number of laps then anyway. Even today, I just couldn't see it happening. Hamilton was quicker, But Bottas was also quick and his aggressive defending was the best i've seen from him. Without the safety car, if they had done the strategy they did today, then yes, I can see Hamilton winning. But I think that strategy was very odd for Bottas. I don't know why they pitted him so early. They pitted him when he was the furthest ahead of Hamilton he had been. They should have left him out longer and done the same with him as they did with hamilton.
Not about if you're right or wrong, it's about the obsession with this particular comparison even in threads not dedicated to the two drivers.TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Yea it does help a bit and looks like the strategy for the driver in 2nd position at the time of the pit stops would run a hard tyre in the middle of the race. This was Hamilton but he obviously made it last the the end which didn't look to be the plan. But he made it work very well. However for Bottas, it looked like they had done what they had planned to do for the driver leading when they pitted. I'm not convinced it was because he ruined his tyres though.Invade wrote:Not about if you're right or wrong, it's about the obsession with this particular comparison even in threads not dedicated to the two drivers.TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
Dunno if this sheds any light on this particular debate...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... s/4495190/
I appreciate that I'm not helping by perpetuating this very debate in this thread.
This will be the last I speak of it here.
Yea that was pretty poor. But soemthing i found funny about it is that he did it when both Grosjean and Magnussen had been mentioning how many issues the car seems to have been having recently. He crashed. Then got his wing replaced with the old speck one. And he actually commented that it was better. He's maybe helped the team a bit? Then in qualifying, it may possibly explain how he managed to get out of Q1.mikeyg123 wrote:Grosjean had a poor weekend. Spinning in the pitlane was just embarrassing.TheGiantHogweed wrote:Did Grosjean really do anything wrong there? I thought Magnussen was really optimistic trying to go on the outside and I don't think Grosjean will have expected that. I think Magnussen was pretty much to blame for both of their retirements. Neither are doing a good job at all though admittedly. But the car is very poor too.Flash2k11 wrote:Hamilton, Verstappen and Leclerc.
That last lap was something else from Hamilton, looked miles quicker all day really. Verstappen and Leclerc.... what a fight. If this is the future of the sport for the next decade or so then we are in good hands. Verstappen got unlucky, though him being on the receiving end of someone elses questionable driving is surely karma at work. Ferrari continue to find new and interesting ways to screw Leclercs strategy calls, though he eventually finished as far forward as he was ever going to today.
Honorable mention to Sainz, who kept Dan behind after getting lucky with the SC.
Idiot(s) of the day: The HAAS clowns. Surely they are both done after this season? More contact between themselves. Its yet another new depth plumbed in what is already a pretty deep pool of awfulness.
Fair enough. I don't agree with everything, but it is obvious few will agree with me. Sorry - i have taken this too far, especially given the thread it is in. I still think my first comment in this thread was reasonable even if others disagree. But after i read a comment on it i ended up taking it to far.sandman1347 wrote:Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
There's no need to apologize man.TheGiantHogweed wrote:Fair enough. I don't agree with everything, but it is obvious few will agree with me. Sorry - i have taken this too far, especially given the thread it is in. I still think my first comment in this thread was reasonable even if others disagree. But after i read a comment on it i ended up taking it to far.sandman1347 wrote:Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?sandman1347 wrote:Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.
Motive? Have you missed the link posted above where Valteri explained that this was his strategy? To do a 2 stop and that he was aiming to stop when he did the whole time? This must be tiresome for you to be so angry about Hamilton winning for years and years now...Covalent wrote:You have been spreading this (dis?)information about Bottas not being able to keep his first set of tyres alive across multiple threads now, is it based on any facts or what is your motive here?sandman1347 wrote:Have you never heard of an in-lap? He took everything out of his tires on his in-lap (as you would always do) and that's why he extended his gap a bit on his last lap before changing tires. Even on fresh Medium tires, he wasn't lapping faster than Hamilton; who was on the same tires he started the race on. Hamilton was comfortably staying out on those tires and Bottas was actually approaching Vettel for position and would likely have been held up by him. So it's entirely possible that Hamilton could have just stayed out for another 2-3 laps without the safety car and pit and come out in front with fresher hard tires.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I almost feel you have missed some things I have said. I don't know why Bottas pitted so early. I don't know where you have found out that it was because he chewed up his tyres. I haven't read that or heard that anywhere but your comment. At the time he pitted, was the furthest ahead of Hamilton that he had been any lap so far. He's been told to push hard so it was almost like he wasn't trying quite as hard a few laps previously. I don't know why he needed to pit. The only way I was thinking Bottas could win was if he stayed out like Hamilton and did the same strategy as him. I'm pretty sure I first mentioned that I thought it was his strategy that messed it up. I am fully aware that being on the strategy he was on would not have resulted in a win. If you can confirm that he actually did chew up his tyres and wanted to pit himself, then i won't argue any further. But given he had slightly extended the gap before he did pit, I don't believe this is the case.sandman1347 wrote: Having stopped for another set of Medium tires, how was Valteri ever going to win that race? If you can answer that question then you'll have a valid complaint about the outcome but the bottom line is that you can't. He simply wasn't quick enough to win the race against Lewis. Late in the race, he pit for Softs and did the fastest lap but Lewis was able to beat that time with 30 lap old hard tires!
I also made a point which i also think you ignored from another thread. When Bottas had done his final stop, he did very soon do fastest lap. But then what was the point of pushing hard after that? He most certainly won't have got up close to Hamilton, nor expected Hamilton to get this fastest lap off him. So given he knew he won't have been able to win, I don't see why he won't have just been taking it easy after he had done that lap. I will admit that It was amazing that Hamilton got it off him at the end though and i think this will have caught Bottas by surprise. but if Hamilton had done that a couple of laps before, I think Bottas will have reacted and possibly gone a bit quicker.
Not quite the question you want answering but as close as i can get.
If Bottas had managed to keep his first set of tires alive and do the same strategy as Hamilton, IMO, he would have been overtaken on track. If not before the stops, then after it.
Hamilton has an even larger advantage over him with the hard tires.